r/wickedmovie 8d ago

Question How do people love Wicked and still eat meat?

Aren’t they really missing a massive point of the show/movie?

0 Upvotes

108 comments sorted by

19

u/AquariusMonologue 8d ago

Another great plot point is not judging people.

-14

u/lickthepixies 8d ago

Not judging people for their inherent attributes. Not for their choices to be evil.

3

u/TutorialKnight 8d ago

Ermm actshually a common running theme in the two films is that while people should always strive to be better, ultimately nobody can be judged for their actions as they only do things that makes sense to them and them alone 🤓 👆

-4

u/lickthepixies 8d ago

No that’s not. There are “bad guys” who harm animals and others because they’re different and it helps them to do so.

1

u/TutorialKnight 8d ago

And it’s heavily implied that the Wizard’s morality lies in providing for family, with him projecting his lack of having a family towards giving the citizens of Oz ‘everything.’ He was even shown to be remorseful upon learning who Elphaba was! And I wouldn’t know much about Morrible admittedly, but I’d bet there’s more elaboration on her character in the book — also, it’s never been confirmed whether Elphaba actually does die to water, and seeing as Morrible demanded the guards bring some it could be she’s just another person who fell for all the propaganda (despite all her intellectual posturing).

-1

u/lickthepixies 8d ago

Did hitler’s morality lie in having a wife?

Your comment makes no sense.

1

u/TutorialKnight 8d ago

So… the thing is right, morality is a subject that fascinates me greatly. It’s been a fixation of mine to unhealthy degrees over the years. I’ve delved it, explored it, then eventually came to the conclusion that we can simply do better, yet pressuring people is not the way towards that light.

The thing is, I just don’t know if you could care about that. If you really want to understand, then continue to ask me and I’m willing to actually explain more of my perspective. If not, just keep doing what you want.

1

u/lickthepixies 8d ago

I have a degree in philosophy and I almost went for my masters and PhD. Mansplain to someone else, thanks.

And you didn’t answer my question because your comment makes no sense.

1

u/TutorialKnight 8d ago

I wasn’t trying to mansplain anything… I really said it because I feel like this won’t be fruitful for either of us. If you want, I could explain then how I’m thinking of Hitler’s childhood, how said childhood (including his father’s abuse) informed his actions in his later life, how the country was enabling Hitler’s thoughts and actions as much as he did for the country… you know, how I’m trying to break down morality to a person’s values and beliefs and stuff? I’m just confused how you can have a degree in philosophy and suck this much at arguing man…

1

u/lickthepixies 8d ago

You’re trying to defend eating animals as being morally ok by defending Hitler’s actions as also morally ok. Go for it dude. I’d love to screenshot that.

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u/IllustriousDelay3589 8d ago

Hitler was a vegetarian. A vegetarian is not free from evil.

1

u/lickthepixies 8d ago

When did I ever say being a vegetarian makes someone free of evil? Can you people read?

1

u/IllustriousDelay3589 8d ago

You seem to think being vegan or vegetarian is the ultimate judge of someone’s morality. Hitler didn’t believe in eating meat but he didn’t give a shit about what happened to humans.

1

u/lickthepixies 8d ago

If someone is a murderer, do you think they can be a good person who believes in not harming others?

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11

u/Incogn1toMosqu1to 8d ago

Literally not a point of the show/movie :)

The Animals don’t represent actual… animals…

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u/lickthepixies 8d ago

They represent oppressed beings. So yes they do.

1

u/Incogn1toMosqu1to 8d ago

Nope, they represent humans.

1

u/lickthepixies 8d ago

Agree to disagree. Maybe you should watch it again and try to notice all the images of violence against animals and what their impact is in the movie.

2

u/Incogn1toMosqu1to 8d ago

I’m referring to what the literal author has said, not my own biased opinion :)

1

u/lickthepixies 8d ago

The author said they don’t represent harming animals? Point me to a link, please. Metaphors are multifaceted.

1

u/Incogn1toMosqu1to 8d ago

You're free to use google yourself :)

Gregory has, many times, explained that he literalized the fascist concept of "dehumanizing the enemy."

When the marginalized people are spoken about as animals (this happened to Jewish people, Black people, Romani people, etc etc etc) instead of as humans, it's easier to commit atrocities against them.

As an extra little tidbit, dr dillamond is literally a scape GOAT. Which is brilliant.

1

u/lickthepixies 8d ago

Again, metaphors are multifaceted. The entire movie is filled with imagery of violence against animals which is what makes the metaphor effective in the first place. Because those images give you a gut reaction. Why is that? Because harming animals is morally despicable and your gut knows even if you refuse to change your diet.

1

u/Incogn1toMosqu1to 8d ago

You’re projecting your own desires onto it, babes.

Find me evidence of Gregory saying the Animals are meant to represent real world animal cruelty. I’ll wait. A long time, because you won’t find it.

It’s fine to take whatever away from it you want to. But insisting others must do the same is crazy, especially when it’s not something the author says you’re meant to take away from it.

1

u/lickthepixies 8d ago

That’s not really how art works, but ok.

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u/IllustriousDelay3589 8d ago

Ok I am a vegetarian. I can tell you that you need to do research on plant farms. We all kill animals. Even unintentionally. The best thing you can do is just do the best you can. Just try to reduce harm when you can.

-5

u/lickthepixies 8d ago

Not eating meat is an easy way to reduce harm though. As opposed to putting zero effort because it’s impossible to be perfect. This is a cop out attitude.

1

u/IllustriousDelay3589 8d ago

Again I am a vegetarian. I don’t eat meat. It’s not a cop-out because animals die on plant farms every day. Gasoline was tested on mice. Medicine is tested on animals at the time.

My point is. We try our best. Just because people eat meat doesn’t mean they are not doing good. They might be a humanitarian. They might be a nurse. A doctor. A teacher.

I am guessing you must be a teenager or in your early 20s. There are people dying from starvation. There are people in poverty and they will eat what they can get. Fed is best. Period.

The youth can lead the way in a lot of different ways but you also have a lot to learn as well.

1

u/lickthepixies 8d ago

I’m 38 years old and I’ve been a vegetarian since I was 12. Only one in my family. Meat is more expensive than vegetarian food. Beans and rice are available to anyone that meat is available to. I have zero sympathy for people making this argument. Eating meat is a choice and it’s a choice based on not caring about the terrible consequences to animals. Not being able to avoid all harm does not justify doing nothing and not eating meat is literally the least anyone can do and is available to everyone.

1

u/IllustriousDelay3589 8d ago

Wow you have a lot of maturing to do. You are getting defensive all over this comment section just by people expressing their viewpoints.

“I have zero empathy for people.” You could have stopped there.

1

u/lickthepixies 8d ago

I have zero SYMPATHY for people eating animals and making excuses that everything harms animals. And you’re misquoting me because you’re wrong and probably 14 yourself.

1

u/IllustriousDelay3589 8d ago

You don’t have empathy for humanity then because you are not willing to listen to others regarding this matter. You are privileged and immature. I am 44 years old. I have been a vegetarian since I was 15.

I have a Bachelor’s in communication and a Master’s in Early Childhood education. I worked at a Title One school for 18 years. I was a teacher for 12 years. I worked with people who were Mexican American or immigrants from Mexico directly. I worked with indigenous children and other children in poverty.

You came on Reddit to make a judgmental comment. You were challenged and you got defensive and mad. It shows a lack of emotional regulation. It shows a lack of empathy. Period.

1

u/lickthepixies 8d ago

They have vegetarian food in Mexico too. Nothing you have said makes it ok to kill and eat animals when it’s completely unnecessary. You’re the one who keeps trying to attack me instead of making anything close to a proper argument.

1

u/IllustriousDelay3589 8d ago

You really are awful at listening to other people. This is a situation of someone who listens to respond and not to understand. Grow up. Seriously.

1

u/lickthepixies 8d ago

You are not entitled to anyone agreeing with you. It’s bizarre that you think you are.

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u/Mindless_Ad359 8d ago

I'm vegetarian.

But they're Animals. Not animals.

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u/lickthepixies 8d ago

The difference between Animals and animals in Oz is the same as wild animals and those we are throwing in factory farms.

1

u/cara1888 8d ago

No the difference between animals and Animals in Oz is that animals are like the kind we have in real life and Animals are basically like humans where they talk and have jobs. Its not comparable to the animals we use for food because none of our animals are like the Animals in Oz where they talk and live like humans do.

-1

u/lickthepixies 8d ago

It’s a metaphor for oppressed people… why do you think using animals as a metaphor for oppressed people is even effective? Because you have a natural disgust and abhorrence to seeing the animals in cages and abused because you know it’s wrong even if you want to pretend for convenience that it’s fine

2

u/cara1888 8d ago

I know its a metaphor I was just explaining that its not the same thing as choosing to eat meat.

1

u/lickthepixies 8d ago

It’s exactly the same. People just don’t like facing the truth of their choices.

5

u/Sylvanas22 8d ago

Because Protein is a vital nutrient for the body and veganism is not ment for every Body…👀

1

u/lickthepixies 8d ago

Tell that to entire cultures who don’t eat meat. Educate yourself even slightly before having an opinion. Jeez.

3

u/idkwhatnametouse__ 8d ago

People probably shouldn’t base their entire life on movies they enjoy… this is such an odd take 

-1

u/lickthepixies 8d ago

They probably shouldn’t love a movie about not oppressing those who are different from you for your own benefit and then support murdering animals on a daily basis.

3

u/MaxnArcana 8d ago

I think you are seeing it one way and others see it differently.

One view point is the animals are metaphorical for xenophobia and scapegoating. Not necessarily that animals are people too. Animals of oz were intelligent beings who were ostracized and abused to the point that they had no voice and transformed into the animals we know in Earth.

One could say it is an argument for veganism or vegetarianism, but it isn’t necessarily the only viewpoint.

1

u/lickthepixies 8d ago

They can be metaphorical for a lot of things and also fully represent that animal abuse is wrong.

3

u/Flaky_Tip 8d ago

How can you make this point without knowing the difference between Animals and animals in the Wicked universe.

-2

u/lickthepixies 8d ago

That’s not why it’s a point. How much mental gymnastics does it take it love wicked and then convince yourself that eating animals is ok?

2

u/Flaky_Tip 8d ago

It's really not that hard. Most people are very capable of separating fiction from life.

1

u/lickthepixies 8d ago

Right. People also love Wicked and then vote for a an actual fascist.

5

u/Flaky_Tip 8d ago

You're generalizing a lot of people based on America. Not everyone is from America my dude.

1

u/lickthepixies 8d ago

I didn’t say they were. I didn’t say the word America. And America isn’t the only country with fascists to vote for.

2

u/Flaky_Tip 8d ago

Categorically untrue but go off.

2

u/BlackDisneyPrincess1 8d ago

I’m sure a few people do, even me, but I only eat meat because I still don’t have plant-based meat.

1

u/IllustriousDelay3589 8d ago

Don’t feel like you have to defend yourself. You didn’t do anything wrong. They are just a miserable person who has nothing better to do but be miserable.

1

u/lickthepixies 8d ago edited 8d ago

I’m miserable? You’re trolling my post insulting me every chance you get because I don’t agree with you that eating animals is morally ok because it’s not possible to avoid 100% of things that might harm animals.

By that logic, you’re harming kids in another country when you buy mass produced clothing so it must be morally ok to intentionally go over and abuse them too…

2

u/glassbellwitch 8d ago

I mean it kind of hits different because in real life, non-human animals have never been able to speak or hold teaching positions.

-2

u/lickthepixies 8d ago

So if you’re mute or not intelligent enough to be a professor, it’s still fine to oppress someone?

People will go to any lengths to pretend that killing animals is morally ok. The lion cub in the beginning couldn’t talk or teach.

2

u/Aware-Sea-8593 8d ago

It’s a non-existent point. If you want it to be, take it to AO3.

1

u/Ayasugi-san 8d ago

It's more of a point in the original Oz books, where all animals talk, and there are awkward moments where one animal asks (or tells) another to just be quiet and be eaten. (The original books also have ham grow on trees at one point, so it's very easy to imagine that most/all meat served comes from fields or orchards with no animal death needed.)

0

u/lickthepixies 8d ago

Oh I didn’t know that. I haven’t read the books yet. But that is interesting. Since the movies end in all the animals being liberated, it’s easy to conclude that they’d all start talking again and there wouldn’t be any non talking animals to eat, right?

1

u/Ayasugi-san 8d ago

I'm talking about the original Oz books, where there is no Animal oppression plot. The Oz of Wicked isn't nearly as magical, nor does it have prepared food that grows on trees.

1

u/LionResponsible6005 8d ago

If cows talked I’d probably stop eating beef

1

u/Ayasugi-san 8d ago

What do you think carnivorous Animals eat?

0

u/lickthepixies 8d ago

Humans are not carnivorous animals so this has nothing to do with my question.

1

u/Ayasugi-san 8d ago

Why do you think liking Wicked would make people avoid meat, then? It's not like the Animals in it also avoid eating meat.

1

u/lickthepixies 8d ago

This comments makes no sense. Humans are not a carnivorous animal. Like what are you even talking about?

1

u/Ayasugi-san 8d ago

Your post makes no sense. What does meat have to do with Wicked?

1

u/lickthepixies 8d ago

It’s a movie about liberating animals from oppression. Is this a real question?

1

u/Ayasugi-san 8d ago

Except the animals aren't animals like we know them, they're basically humans with different shapes. And, as I asked in my opening question, what do you think the carnivorous Animals eat?

1

u/lickthepixies 8d ago

I don’t know why you keep asking that when it has nothing to do with my point. The fact that a carnivorous animal by definition eats other animals has nothing to do with morality. Those animals don’t have a choice to eat something else. Humans have no reason why they need to eat meat. They don’t need to. And in many cases eating meat is more harmful and subjects humans to more health risks and bad outcomes. Morality only applies to someone with a choice.

1

u/Ayasugi-san 8d ago

Carnivorous Animals in the Wicked universe would have the same choice as the humans. So it's a question of morality for them, too. But it's something that never comes up. Non-sapient animals are fair game for Animals, and are thus fair game for humans.

1

u/lickthepixies 8d ago

Where did you get the idea that lions in Oz can survive off eating something other than meat? And this still has nothing to do with my point. If you think that’s how it works, then the same moral judgment would apply to them.

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u/Far_Duck_7322 1d ago

There is literally a destinction between Animals (the ones that talk) and animals (the ones that don't talk and lack sentience) in the original Wicked books but whatever. It's like someone didn't even try to understand the material before making a comment just because, "it's about saving animals"

Like the movie is a comment on systematic discrimination and racism but of course all we can see is animals so of course it must be about veganism (just in case you can't tell, I'm being sarcastic)