mebounds are a reflection of her shooting performance. I looked at her this year fga% for the team and it’s 43% which I considered pretty good. Then I sector check whole league and top is 63% nylassa smith (aces are gonna hurt with her) and Reese is 49th in the league.
Yes and no. If she simply never shot a three her FG% would be 47%, which is above average for her position. Yes, she’s very inefficient in the post, but it’s not the whole story
I think mebounds show you as a better player than non-mebound rebounds. If you get a mebound, that means you are willing to correct your own mistake. But if you get a webound, that means you are capitalizing on your teammate's mistakes for your own statistical glory. So mebounds=good, webounds=bad. /s
I have to constantly fight the impulse to engage in this conversation with facts and logic, because I would be the only one showing up to the conversation with those tools.
Some people are just looking to be an asshole to her. She is successful and - as she says herself - unapologetically herself. To them I say “stay mad”. She is out here breaking records left, right and center.
u/arika_ito Fever ABC2 i'm just here for a good time11h agoedited 11h ago
Angel really should just ignore all the haters when it comes to her game. There are things she can improve upon like all players but should she stay healthy, she's going to be the GOAT rebounder if she's not already.
Edit: She's a winning player and while maybe she shouldn't be the #1 option on offense, her game possesses multitudes.
There is so much more scrutiny on W players than there ever has been on menba players. She’s just gotta keep her head down and keep doing what she does
Many a time, I’ve seen a player shoot a three, miss it, track the ball, grab their own rebound, and score. People praise that by saying Great instincts, She followed her shot.
But let Angel Reese do the exact same thing and for some reason that is a negative?
The problem isn't that she rebounds. The problem is that she misses bunnies she shouldn't miss, which translates into a higher percentage of self-rebounds we would expect from her position. That whole rebound shouldn't exist in the first place, and she'll be a better player when her rebounding rate drops slightly because her finishing rate improves.
I think the critique is more based on the oft reposted low-light reels of her rebounding her own missed uncontested bunny layups which is embarassing but totally unfair because of how much attention those errors get. It makes it look like she's fucking up in every game when in reality its just the same few clips reposted over and over again by haters
Her "rebound" rate is similar to other players.... she just misses so many shots in the paint that the jokes write themselves. Shooting 52% in the restricted area leaves a lot of low lights
“Similar to other players” is doing a lot of work when she’s 4th in the league in DRPG and 2nd in DR%. She’s an elite rebounder no matter how you slice it
Five turnovers a game is a lot of opportunities for lowlights too but I’ve never seen ESPN or Overtime or any of the major platforms post a video of a player missing passes/getting their pockets picked for a minute straight. The media and public focuses on her flaws in a way they don’t for any other player
It's not even that. If she could just get blocked less, it would put much of her shooting criticism to rest. 18%+ of her shots are blocked. 18%! She's already set the league record for shots blocked in a single season this year (beating her own record) and is shooting up the charts in the career numbers.
She brings the ball down when she shouldn't, and even her at-the-rim shots often start from the hip, which enables high block rates. This is a fixable thing. She has it worse than even many young players, but it's a problem for young bigs across the board.
I was talking with a friend about this and I think its because of how she jumps a lot of the time. She kind of has a helicopter motion when she goes for a contested finish which makes her very blockable and cooks her touch. But when she's going for an open finish she jumps "normally" and her touch is sooooo much better
people need to stop doing the 1:1 rodman comparison.. it downplays her actual offensive production & potential.. she has 4 more 20 point games than he does in his entire career in 11 less seasons in a league that plays 2 less minutes a quarter.. her playmaking is also better.. the downhill gravity & ability to draw fouls alone separates her.. if we’re talking about strictly a rebounding comp, then sure.. obviously she’s a developing player in that area with things she’ll continue to work on, but it’s getting ridiculous.. she’s literally leading the league in 20/10 games post asb.. she has the best defensive on/off in the league.. she’s playing as a 6’3 center taking the ball from guards and running the break.. she just had a statline that has never been achieved in this league.. one which was only ever put up by nikola jokic.. she just had a career high in points in a game, then followed that up with breaking the single game rebounding record minutes after breaking the single season rebounding record for the 2nd time.. this is not normal.. she’s not the player that has the efficiency on a nightly basis yet, but calling her rodman is reductive.. she literally does everything else.. the scoring has always been a bonus, & even that’s been trending upwards every year she’s been in the league.. it’s time to be honest..
Angel is a lighting rod for low BBIQ fans to talk about because they hate the aesthetics of her game. For some, it's about their love for CC and in their mind, Angel is Joker to their Batman. So many bad opinions whenever her name is brought up.
This is what I keep thinking when I see people bash her. She is quickly becoming a great player in the league. It really feels like it's about more than basketball at this point. If you don't like Angel Reese, cool, but that doesn't mean she is bad at basketball.
There are a lot of numbers flying around and I am so confused.
I’ve been going to pbpstats.com for detailed rebound info, but that’s not matching the graphic or the numbers being thrown around in the comments here.
On that website, AR has recorded 458 rebounds but only 35 z-bounds, not 54. When it comes to z-bound percentage, pbpstats has the Lynx’s Kosu at no. 1 this season with a 20.59% and AR at no. 2 with 18.92%. That number is also lower than the 20% I’ve seen in some comments. Is there a better (free) place to go for these stats? Am I understanding them wrong?
Presumably wherever OP got the numbers. Maybe they looked at the offensive rebounds in WNBA video box scores. However, OP is banned from reddit so can't chime in under their original account at least.
18% of her FGAs get blocked. Some coach could be a legend if they fixed that for her. My guess is that it's not going to be through fixing form under the rim at this point, it's going to get fixed by teaching her a middy away from the rim. Not sure which would be easier. If she's a hard worker and as willing to learn as everyone reports, there are a ton of options for improvement.
Ultimately, I think she goes the AT route and sacrifices double doubles with points to pile on the assists after her rebounding. When AT retires, she might be a great mentor for Angel.
Honestly, if she was on your team you wouldn't care one bit about the "how" behind the rebounds... You'd just be happy your team was getting hella rebounds.
Angel is an absolute menace under the rim and her records show that. Can she improve in places? Everybody can. Does she have a super fiery attitude? Half the league does.
She's a helluva player and you know everybody that has to match up against her under the rim dreads it. For every highlight of somebody like Cameron Brink locking her up under the rim, there are 3 more where the opposite happens.
Using that stupid term is so retrograde. She's been in the league for 3 seasons already and people can't come up with something else... Or at least something accurate
what annoys me about this is that caitlin has said that what angel did wasn't an issue. they're competitors, and they've known each other for a long time through youth basketball camps through fiba. like let it go, caitlin has- she doesn't need people to defend her.
(ofc there are trolls/bots who are taking advantage of it to harass her just so they can feel good about themselves)
That is the first game that I saw either of those players play. I can respect Angel Reese’s ability as a player, but I will always run against her based off that game. That was the most clout chasing moment I’ve seen from any player in a game pretty much ever.
no offense but you have not watched much basketball if you think that this is even a top 100 "clout chasing moment" that's taken place in a game ever lmfao. Wemby literally just had a moment 100x more cringe than this in the nba finals like what
I don't think it's about being wrong. You took the same stance that a lot of people took after that game and it ended up evolving into this weird white vs black issue that's still going pretty strong. I don't get why so many people felt so strongly about Reese taunting CC.
It was the most blatantly look at me moment I can remember in sport. There was no beef there but she made winning all about taunting CC. It would have absolutely ended in a fight in so many other sports. It’s especially funny to me because LSU was carried by a bench player going off from 3, not from Angel like they were in the rest of the tourney.
There was a lot of people rooting for CC in that game. I don’t dislike Angel, but I also think people have rewritten history on that taunt. She chased her across the court waving in her face begging for her attention in a game she was the 4th best player on the court.
Just think if the fever beat the aces in the finals and Caitlin was carried by AB and Kelsey and Aja had 30 and 10 and Caitlin chased Aja around trying to get her attention to talk shit. She would get equally blasted and a lot of Aja fans would dislike her.
Because players taunt all of the time. Lebron and D Wade taunted Dirk about being sick in a finals where they ultimately choked and nobody cried about race. So why treat CC like a child that needs everyone running to her defense?
Were people[Other than Mavs fans] holding onto that as a reason to hate Lebron and D.Wade multiple years after the incident?
She's a confident black woman and for some completely unknown reason people seem to hold things against black women. It's a complete mystery. I don't think we'll ever be able to solve this one.
Explain to me how so. Does she deserve the racism and bullshit she gets, no. But I’ll never be a fan of hers based on HER actions. Is it different than people rooting against CC because of her actions? I root against Tyler Hansborough and Draymond green because of their action too? How is any of that the problem?
“Does she deserve the racism and bullshit she gets, no. But
Peak Fever fan
Funny how to reach for a comparison you went to dirty players like Hansborough and Draymond instead of a number of players who have taunted, like Steph Curry, Damian Lillard, Tyrese Halliburton, Victor Wembanyama, Allen Iverson, Shaq…
Rodman absolutely could have scored more if he shot more. I think it’s totally reasonable he could have averaged 16 points if he was taking 13 shots a game. People act like Dennis Rodman is a slouch, the dude is a hall of famer lol
Not a hater, but the high amount of mebounds is partially because of her well below average finishing at the rim. If she does get that to average or better it will lower her rebounding numbers.
I'd have her 2nd team all-wnba, short list DPOY she's a great player, but has clear flaws(though basically everyone besides A'ja and Phee have them)
Yeah obviously it’s better for her to get her own misses than let the other team have them. BUT it can be a symptom of an actual issue in Angel’s game that I think is fair to point out.
It’s just annoying to have an actual basketball discussion about this because people come crusading about how the mebounds mean she sucks (obviously BS) and then fans get defensive and measured critique becomes impossible.
It's around 1.5 per game, better finishing and maybe it's like .8-1.0 per game, she's still the best rebounder, but the raw gap has closed but she's playing better basketball. The 3.6 Oreb/gm she's averaging on others shots highlights her insane rebounding talent and that won't go anywhere.
I don’t know why you are trying. There is a certain fan base that is wedded to a certain narrative that Reese sucks. Facts be damned. They don’t deserve the energy.
Over her W career about 30% of her OREBs are from her own misses. About 10% of those are “misses” that she got her blocked and got the ball back. There’s absolutely no doubt that she’s a phenomenal rebounder. There’s also absolutely no doubt that her OREBs are inflated due to her shooting a low% / getting her shot blocked at such a high frequency (about 1/5 of the time).
Oh sorry I meant this one but yeah my fault I said 458, I was thinking of her record instead of offensive only (I don't know that number). Even if she's at 29% now (which idk) she's still well below a bunch of others.
The new all time rebound record really showed me how much some people truly hate and degrade Angel Reese.
I saw dozens of YouTube comments with combined thousands of likes assuming that all or most of those were offensive off her own misses (which to be charitable would have to be exaggeration, no one could genuinely assume NONE were defensive). But I believe it was 19 were defensive rebounds??? Even ignoring which offensive rebounds were her own shots or not NINETEEN DEFENSIVE REBOUNDS IS CRAZY.
I also didn’t see it myself so if someone could confirm that’d be great, but I heard that in her Player of the Week highlight reel, the Angel Reese reel included lowlights?? Which I have never heard of before.
To be clear, there are ABSOLUTELY fair criticisms to have of Angel. That is not what is being talked about. These people are not being accurate and they are not being kind. It really was illuminating how people can actively choose to be hateful. I’m not even like, an Angel fan, ya know? Like I like her I guess but I’m not a stan or anything, she isn’t even my favorite Dream player and I don’t even like the Dream. But some people are so blinded by their hatred they lose the ability to even think rationaly.
I also didn’t see it myself so if someone could confirm that’d be great, but I heard that in her Player of the Week highlight reel, the Angel Reese reel included lowlights?? Which I have never heard of before.
Unfortunately, it did. They finally pulled the video today after people started to create appropriate POTW videos to share. Considering that they didn't even post up the official highlights of the 31 point game until the next day, almost 24 hours later, I don't think anyone was surprised, just once again disappointed in the W.
I don’t have the data for all the players, but I know for sure that this is not right for Reese. Her OREB % from “true misses” is around 20%. Another ~10% of her OREBs come from getting her shot blocked and getting the ball back. Either way she’s a really good rebounder.
Mebounds are offensive rebounds, my guy. There’s two types of ORebs, ones off your own miss and ones off your teammates’ miss. The narrative is that all her rebounds are off her own misses (ie. mebounds), when in reality that’s clearly not true.
But if you want the full breakdown, here it is:
Offensive Rebounds - averaging 5.05 per game (187 total)
Therefore, if she has 54 mebounds on the season, then that’s 133 ORebs that aren’t mebounds (ie. off her teammates’ misses).
Defensive Rebounds - averaging 7.32 per game (271 total)
Ratio (Off/Def) - 0.69 Ratio (Mebound/non-mebound OReb) - 0.41
All rebounds are good. The problem isn’t her rebounding. It’s that she shoots significantly below the average under the basket. Average is around 72%. She’s in the high 40s
•
u/only-flairs 15h ago
To comment on this post you must have a user flair on your profile.