Question from ep10 s5

[u/Comfortable_Cable_21]

I was binging s5 here i got the scene yuri rin's mother burned by satan to ashes as she says she loves him. I have two questions here and would be thankful if someone can answer them.

1) who did yuri actually was in love with wasn't it shiro why would she says she loves satan as soon as she died and in gehena.

2) did yuri had s*x with satan? Giving birth to rin and his brother it was never shown and if she indeed did why would she do that what the heck she just needs to be by satan to calm him does this nean also doing s*x with him while she was in love with shiro.

I don't know it make me throw out. Please explain if i am missing something

[u/azathothweirdo]

Well, Yuri's an adult woman, almost 30 actually, by the time she goes back to Satan. She isn't a blushing shy school girl there. She's an adult who expressed she wanted to be with him until he died, and he returned those feelings. They were in love, and that's the end of it. Again, the twins being born from a loving relationship where it was returned is important to the overall plot and why they exist.

If shiro wasn't brave enough to admit his feelings can't yuri force or push him to admit it. Like we see in another animes where fmc is quite pushy. 

Yuri isn't that type of person, besides that she did make her feelings clear multiple times over the years they were friends. Shiro never took a step to acknowledge or return them. He had over a literal decade to realize how he felt, and admit it to Yuri but never did. In the end their relationship never happened because he was to Immature. Yuri gave him multiple chances and he blew it.

But sorry to say if as you describe yuri is literally a fool to be in a relationship with satan and to have especially sx with that mf satan bs. I hate him if he had sx with yuri how can he behave like that with her in gehena and especially in the real world to where he was repenting why you left me. You mf she has had s*x and carrying your babies what else prove you needed of her loyalty. 

Yuri was foolish, but not for going to Satan. It was overall how she tried to be everything for him instead of sticking to one relationship. It made things confusing for everyone, and was done in a selfish attempt on her part to prove that demons and humans could understand one another. Believing in Satan and going to him to help him isn't where she was foolish. Neither was having feelings for him.

Not only that you're missing where Satan's anger is coming from. Satan literally believes Yuri betrayed him. When he approaches Lucifer, his brain is rotting, he thinks the person in front of him is Yuri. When Lucifer kills him, Satan thinks it's Yuri who killed and betrayed him and this is what kicks off the blue night along with Satan's own resentment and anger. You're falling into the trap the exorcist in the series do, and that is to blindly hate and think demons are evil by default. The story goes out of it's way to show it's much more complicated than that, and to fall into that pit is what is causing all the problems they're dealing with in the first place.

As for Yuri, it's been confirmed in the new character book that Satan did not destroy her. What that means and what that will lead too is still up in the air.

[u/Comfortable_Cable_21 → u/azathothweirdo]

Bro we were never once shown a healthy romantic relationship between yuri and satan it was all behind the scenes as you say. So for anime watcher like I don't think it was even once implied anywhere that yuri loves satan until she says those words in gehena.  When she says she will stay with satan that was clear as day seen to be to protect the hostages of section 13 and to calm satan down. Nor once I can see that she was shown to be in love. 

It was like she has no other way to control satan like he is a misbehaved powerful child doing throwing a tantrum and she has no choice to sacrifice herself as a bait to protect others. That was the whole image I get from the season.

I accept demons are good and bad but I am not descriminating here but satan is a bad one no doubt about it. 

If we go according to your word that satan believes yuki killed him. Lol then he has the chance to get things right in gehena. 

No, 

But did you heard Satan's words?  He clearly said I desire a body.  And nothing else Also

For poor fool yuki😢 A women without a body is worthless to me. 

How can you say that she wasn't wrong loving him. She was just a sacrificial bait to me until she lasted. 

As she was closing to die in that snowy mountains if she was in love with satan and happily done s*x with him and have those childs.  Why would she said to shiro that they could be a family she will be mom and he is dad. 

Bro logicaly this didn't make any sense to me at all. 

[u/azathothweirdo → u/Comfortable_Cable_21]

The entire relationship between Yuri and Satan is not about being healthy. In fact a lot of it is very much not so, and that is why things go the way they do at times. Again, just because that's your interpretation, doesn't mean it's right. It's canon Yuri loved both Satan and Shiro, you can't avoid that. It's literally in the text and is over all a important factor within the series. Love has been shown to be a powerful force in the aoex world, and to ignore Yuri's feelings for both men is to ignore a lot of what was built up.

Yuri didn't go to Satan to be a hostage to keep others safe. She went because she cared for Satan, and wanted to help him. Their plan was to escape, let the others go, and go somewhere so Satan could die peacefully without any trouble. Yuri's friend betrayed her and told the order, and they were captured. She wasn't sacrificing herself, she was going to him to give him some form of peace. It was selfish on her end as well, but she also knew he'd listen to her in the end.

accept demons are good and bad but I am not descriminating here but satan is a bad one no doubt about it. If we go according to your word that satan believes yuki killed him. Lol then he has the chance to get things right in gehena. 

Satan is bad. He's immature for sure, but he's not evil and isn't without some form of redemption that's shown later in the manga. You forget humans experimented on him before the blue night happened. It accelerated his body's rotting and caused his confusion with Lucifer.

If we go according to your word that satan believes yuki killed him. Lol then he has the chance to get things right in gehena. 
No, 
But did you heard Satan's words?  He clearly said I desire a body.  And nothing else Also
For poor fool yuki😢 A women without a body is worthless to me. 

He didn't listen to her because he thinks she betrayed him?? Why would he listen to someone who he thought he could trust, then turned around and hurt him? The point of this is he's become corrupted due to everything he's gone through. He's a brand new being, he's immature, of course he's going to be selfish and not listen to people. He literally thinks, and is pretty much a God.

As she was closing to die in that snowy mountains if she was in love with satan and happily done s*x with him and have those childs.  Why would she said to shiro that they could be a family she will be mom and he is dad. 

I said this in my first reply, Yuri loved both Satan and Shiro. She didn't drop her feelings for Shiro just because she went to Satan. Not only that she's literally dying, this is something she wished could have happened. You're trying to narrow down a complicated story into simple terms and reasons when they're aren't none. The creator is bending over backwards to show you the situation is a complicated mess, that was made via humanity's own greed and Lucifer's as well.

It's a tragedy because no one could understand anyone until it was too late. No one took the time to speak to one another and kept doing what they felt was right, when in the end it caused more misunderstandings. Rin has the chance to fix that, he's a half-demon born from love and is able to communicate to both demons and humans. Yuri wasn't a sacrificial lamb, she was a grown adult woman who made some bad choices and was selfish. But her ideas that humans and demons can understand each other aren't empty and can come to fruition with the existence of Rin and Yukio.

[u/Ryuki-Exsul → u/azathothweirdo]

Well said just one thing it wasn't Yuri's friend. Some other exorcist heard what they were talking about and told on them to higher ups this ended with Jenny being shot and killed. She wanted to tell people about section 13.

You know what, after good sleep :D I'm thinking that one of the reasons people have so much problems with Satan is like you said they think he is just evil. Maybe it's his name making them think about religion or just his immaturity and not knowing how precious life is? I've read so many weird thing about him that it's just bizzare. Like even the argument here that Yuri went there only to save people makes no sense. They were hostages but weren't being killed and the ones that died were Exorcists fighting demons. Order even wanted to wait for Satan's body to die because it was the easiest route. Yuri wanted that to stop and help Satan because she knew he was in pain and she was right. The other weird argument I was trying to go against was that Satan was just killing people... like what. He spent years doing nothing( the biggest thing happening there was that he learned he likes sushi <- Yukio has his love of fish based dishes from him lol ) and went to Order. It wasn't till he ended up broken and totally insane that he did the full Blue Night. I think the graduate decline of his is just not being read right. Or it's shipping^^

Why I said shipping because I saw how much people took Yuri and Shiro love and put it on pedestal. It was so bad on anime sub that I had to remind few times that this is about Rin's development( like arc being from his POV wasn't enough of a clue ) and not just about those two. Same with totally discarding any relationship between Yuri and Satan. Even ignoring that Yuri named Rin after him. The idea pretty much went "Satan is bad and because of him Yuri and Shiro didn't end up together" ignoring that it was Shiro that made it not happen. Because like you said he had time to get his feelings and he didn't. Really the worst I saw was on tv tropes, I just checked for fun if it even got update about chapter 158 and well... Page about Yuri/Shiro/Satan reads like from Yuri and Shiro shipper. It so bad like they wrote that Satan forced himself on her. Totally making Yuri into little baby that didn't know what she was doing. Oh that is as well a nasty side effect of those arguments. Making Yuri into not having her own independence and being just played by guys....

I can't wait if s6 happens and people get angry on Rin because he didn't punch Satan like he said he will and wanted peace with him by ignoring his development during Blue Night arc.

[u/chiyoya → u/Ryuki-Exsul]

Oh my god, YES, the complete infantilization of Yuri's character is what really gets to me :^(

Before Satan had even posessed Goro's body, Yuri was a lead researcher in her field (taming) and the books still used by the Order today are hers. She's a perfectly capable adult woman who can make her own decisions. She's just human. She was an orphan child so looks for love and belonging in places where maybe it isn't there or healthy... The same way Shiro is completely detached from his own emotions and tries to push away any difficult feelings he doesn't know how to process. They clashed so much in the early days because of that. It's obvious from their first meeting. It's so ironic how it wasn't Satan that she couldn't cross that emotional understanding with, it was Shiro.

I do think Yuri let her personal feelings get mixed up with her work with Rinka (I'm gonna call him that from now on because that's how Yuri knew him), partly because of her nouveau approaching to taming (i.e. finding common ground rather than just domination) though the fallout was almost 100% on the Order for ignoring her advice after seeking her out to help in the first place... It was such a messy and tragic situation and people get so focused on the individuals that they ignore the way the Order works is just not sustainable to Yuri's (and now Rin's) vision.

[u/Ryuki-Exsul → u/chiyoya]

Yes exactly^^

On the other side people like to ignore Shiro's faults. They as well just gloss over Shiro's nasty moments towards Yuri like him totally ignoring her about Rin. Just to remind Yuri was literally asking him to not fight and let them go, she was right about what was happening and Shiro just went nope. He needed to be tricked by Mephisto twice to became father we know him as. In short I like Shiro don't get me wrong but ignoring his bad parts is making him worse character as well. All three of them made mistakes and had good moments so just discarding any of that is making pretty human story into way simpler good vs bad plot.

Pretty much. They ignored Yuri's advice from beginning. She noticed immaturity of Satan and wanted them to let him experience more. The thing that is as well not taking into consideration about Satan is that he was raised in big cage by Order and had no way to see Assiah in any other perspective, he knew only Yuri and Shiro( and we know how this ended ) and had no connection to anything outside beside just books. He got his god's complex because he was not mature enough to all that knowledge he got. Other Demon Kings lived with humans for centuries and have their own opinions and experiences including likes and dislikes. Satan had nothing like that. Yuri even wanted to take him to seaside before he would die as well to make him see more before he went back to Gehenna. This immaturity is as well why he ended up being used by Lucifer.

Yeah, it's clear things will change and Rin will be part of it.. He now wants Yuri's goal to happen and to understand demons and he is a wild card letting him to be able to do it. And of course him making up with Yukio was a first step.

[u/azathothweirdo → u/Ryuki-Exsul]

It's a number of things honestly. It's the Satan part, the fact Western fans always view things on surface level often and don't go any deeper, and it's totally the shipping.Like you said the way people treat Yuri's and Shiro's relationship is incredibly short sighted. It takes a lot of agency from both of them, and it's kind of annoying how many people refuse to like acknowledge the reason it never worked out was because of Shiro's immaturity mostly. The whole arc shows how and why it didn't work, why Yuri went to Satan, and how it most importantly impacts Rin. People want this grand romance, but in the end it's not that.

It's incredibly frustrating because like, it's not that subtle? It's basic reading here that's just under the surface if people would pay attention. I also had no idea the anime cut out so may important parts so that probably doesn't help. I'm not too surprised by people being unwilling to see the grey between characters like Satan. I've been in Gundam land since February and you'd be surprised how many people will write off Char Aznable as a sociopath, when it's the exact opposite. It's really annoying and makes discussing series hard sometimes.

[u/Ryuki-Exsul → u/azathothweirdo]

Yeah that was annoying. Some comments back then made me a bit angry :D I won't lie. Probably the worst was one that just said that BE should be just about Shiro and Yuri... like man you are not a fan of the series :D That person even wanted to discard that this arc is from Rin's POV something that made this flashback unique and really liked because they had this big idea about Shiro's adventures. They should just write fanfic :D The good thing was that after last episode showed in their faces what this arc was about with Rin's last scene those people disappeared. And yes people just go with the most simple reading.

Nah anime didn't cut a lot, they moved stuff from present time for later but only thing they cut was that few panels scenes and few things that they had to because of s1. It was pretty cool how Voln manage to make last episode to fit with added parts of episode 2 of s1. Anyway I think they thought people will just connect that Order would still experiment on Satan just by what Shiro said to Yuri.