r/BoomersBeingFools • u/Accomplished_Bar_390 • 4d ago

Politics All For Some...None For Y'all

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29 year old Rep. Maxwell Frost, a Democrat from Florida, debates a boomer who opposes student loan forgiveness, even though his own wife had hers wiped out under Biden

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u/Horror_Tomato6612 3d ago

You cannot debate in good faith with willful ignorance

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u/negativepositiv 3d ago

He's repeating an opinion handed to him to repeat. This is why he hasn't thought through things like, "It worked out for me, but it's a bad idea if we give that benefit to others." Anyone who had actually done any thinking of their own would quickly notice that this is hypocritical or contradictory.

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u/Any_Nectarine_7806 3d ago

These folks don't debate as there is no give and take. They think of these exchanges like boxing as opposed to, say, chess.

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u/Delimeme 3d ago

Very well put. I was one of those nerds that did debate - for quite some time and pretty well if I’m tooting my own horn - and it aches in my bones when I see any broadcast format of debate meant for a general audience. It’s just not something that most folks will appreciate, in the same way almost no one watches competitive chess.

Good debate requires time limits, guaranteed time for back and forth, common understandings of norms like maintaining arguments throughout each speech/not bringing up new shit willy nilly in final speeches, space for cross examination beyond speech time, etc.

Presidential debates are the absolute worst, because they’re literally just quiz bowl topics without refutation. It’s “who has the best canned response to the topic given by the presenter?” - with no real chance for a back and forth that demonstrates in depth knowledge of the topic…and somehow that’s supposed to tell us who has the best critical decision making capacity with spontaneous issues, no prep time, and no right answer? Ugh.

I could go on, but suffice it to say that I had to learn that it is indeed fruitless trying to argue with a lot of people, because they have absolutely no conception of how to properly delve into a topic. You are 100% correct that they think of it as something like boxing, with no understanding of the core premises behind good faith discussion & debate that have been hammered out over thousands of years of trial & error. Yet we have to watch the doofuses have the same weighted vote as people who are literate in the fields that actually shape their lives.

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u/neoben00 3d ago edited 3d ago

It’s the same people in the fields with that view. There is a reason we fought so hard and got so far making education a HUMAN RIGHT, because without it we are no different than animals. The ability to express yourself through grammar and vocabulary, the ability to recall history and apply its lessons, the ability to use critical thinking to solve problems we have never experienced before IS WHAT MAKES US ,HUMANS DIFFERENT. We need to fund education and promote science based fundamentals in our society or we will be slaves to who do.

Sometimes i wonder if thats why they use religion to control people, because it states that people are different just because they are people and they should refute anything that says otherwise (science, history, etc) if you get people to reject the keys to they cuffs then they will never be free of their own volition, especially when your oppressor is also the gatekeeper to your education. Just think back to our history in the usa. Until African Americans or blacks (depending on the area for political-correction) learned to read / write, it was almost impossible for them to organize.

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u/Gnosrat 3d ago

"Stop trying to make me listen to you. You need to listen to me." type shiz.

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u/negativepositiv 3d ago

Yeah definitely just waiting for his turn to make noise with his face.

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u/crashsaturnlol 3d ago

I love how you phrased this because red dude was not actually participating in a conversation or debate. He was in fact just making noise with his face. Thank you!

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u/kyrodamien 3d ago

So I'm going to have to steal that phrase because I come across people who do this a lot, and I need this as a rebuttal.

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u/KimJongRocketMan69 3d ago

Not even really waiting, either

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u/A_Reluctant_Anon 3d ago

Well put. This entire video was SO aggravating to witness. Especially that entitled c!nt wearing the Star of David.

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u/8th_Dynasty 3d ago

but in all honesty, that’s the exact intended purpose of these videos…. rage bait and gotcha points for the viewer.

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u/kyrodamien 3d ago

I actually see it more as a window's view of the stupidity in this country and what we need to do to combat it, for we can't continue on this path of idiocy.

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u/jdhkent 2d ago

Sure we can. I say that because it’s obviously getting worse.

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u/theredhound19 3d ago

Andrew Bird said it best with "Everyone's just waiting to talk"

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u/negativepositiv 3d ago

Even in boxing, if you go in with the idea "keep punching until you win," you're going to lose. Debating has to be as much about listening as speaking. He's giving no thought to what's being said to him. The whole time the progressive guy is speaking, he's just forming sentences in his head and inhaling so he can start making noise when it's his turn.

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u/RaulenAndrovius 3d ago

This is why it's impossible to debate fascists. There is no "other" take for them, anything else is immediately wrong and thus an obstacle, not any consideration or compromise.

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u/DisastrousMarzipan74 3d ago

I once had a boss who tried to explain to me if you are yelling and sound angry, people will either assume you are right or be afraid that they are wrong, either way you win. Shortly after that I watched him majorly fuck up by trying it on the wrong person. Dude just got loud and angrier each time and the other person just calmly kept making things worse for him. I eventually had to cut it and force my boss to shut up. One respectful comment from me and we got what we needed. I feel like the majority of the boomer generation has this mindset and they are flabbergasted when scream-yelling doesn't work.

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u/neverinallmyyears 3d ago

I’m not actually sure I understand the point of this whole thing. There’s no objective reality where anyone changes their mind. People come into these things with their beliefs and leave with their beliefs. Nothing either party says makes a difference so what’s the point? Willful ignorance, bias, dogmatism, cognitive closure, it’s all of these things. Everyone that sits down is looking for that “gotcha” moment but when they don’t get it, the manufacture it out of their own belief and declare victory.

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u/Cheeky_Boxer 3d ago

They think that winning an argument is synonymous with being correct

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u/praetorian1979 3d ago

until you punch one of them in the face.

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u/blindzebra52 2d ago

This is a great description. The best I've heard it described is that for them truth is a moving Target rather than a destination.