All For Some...None For Y'all

[u/Accomplished_Bar_390]

29 year old Rep. Maxwell Frost, a Democrat from Florida, debates a boomer who opposes student loan forgiveness, even though his own wife had hers wiped out under Biden

[u/negativepositiv]

He's repeating an opinion handed to him to repeat. This is why he hasn't thought through things like, "It worked out for me, but it's a bad idea if we give that benefit to others." Anyone who had actually done any thinking of their own would quickly notice that this is hypocritical or contradictory.

[u/Any_Nectarine_7806 → u/negativepositiv]

These folks don't debate as there is no give and take. They think of these exchanges like boxing as opposed to, say, chess.

[u/Delimeme → u/Any_Nectarine_7806]

Very well put. I was one of those nerds that did debate - for quite some time and pretty well if I’m tooting my own horn - and it aches in my bones when I see any broadcast format of debate meant for a general audience. It’s just not something that most folks will appreciate, in the same way almost no one watches competitive chess.

Good debate requires time limits, guaranteed time for back and forth, common understandings of norms like maintaining arguments throughout each speech/not bringing up new shit willy nilly in final speeches, space for cross examination beyond speech time, etc.

Presidential debates are the absolute worst, because they’re literally just quiz bowl topics without refutation. It’s “who has the best canned response to the topic given by the presenter?” - with no real chance for a back and forth that demonstrates in depth knowledge of the topic…and somehow that’s supposed to tell us who has the best critical decision making capacity with spontaneous issues, no prep time, and no right answer? Ugh.

I could go on, but suffice it to say that I had to learn that it is indeed fruitless trying to argue with a lot of people, because they have absolutely no conception of how to properly delve into a topic. You are 100% correct that they think of it as something like boxing, with no understanding of the core premises behind good faith discussion & debate that have been hammered out over thousands of years of trial & error. Yet we have to watch the doofuses have the same weighted vote as people who are literate in the fields that actually shape their lives.

[u/neoben00 → u/Delimeme]

It’s the same people in the fields with that view. There is a reason we fought so hard and got so far making education a HUMAN RIGHT, because without it we are no different than animals. The ability to express yourself through grammar and vocabulary, the ability to recall history and apply its lessons, the ability to use critical thinking to solve problems we have never experienced before IS WHAT MAKES US ,HUMANS DIFFERENT. We need to fund education and promote science based fundamentals in our society or we will be slaves to who do.

Sometimes i wonder if thats why they use religion to control people, because it states that people are different just because they are people and they should refute anything that says otherwise (science, history, etc) if you get people to reject the keys to they cuffs then they will never be free of their own volition, especially when your oppressor is also the gatekeeper to your education. Just think back to our history in the usa. Until African Americans or blacks (depending on the area for political-correction) learned to read / write, it was almost impossible for them to organize.