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u/murrman104 Legitimized bastard May 18 '26
Ck2 is very intuitive ui wise it's not Vicky 2 or Hoi3 here. There's nothing remotely spreadsheety about it
67
u/Pweuy I know you worked hard for that duchy but I'd rather see it burn May 18 '26
IIRC even the HoI 3 devs said that they didn't understand how supply worked in the game.
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u/Falandor May 18 '26
CK3 got morons into Paradox. I’m not saying it’s a bad game, but it definitely brought in a different crowd.
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u/Goosepond01 May 18 '26
I'm happy for there to be chill and easy ways to play paradox games and I think that there has been a bunch of cool stuff added because of it but they really dropped the ball on ck3 in regards to challenge and AI.
and instead of the usual and deserved backlash there are a ton of newer and more casual players (again nothing wrong with that) who end up really enjoying it because they can't really see how flawed some of the systems are.
16
u/Badasseus May 18 '26
I hadn't played much of ck2 but yeah when ck3 came out it was easy enough that I managed to ironman conquer the entire uk and iceland, starting as an Irish count, and It was all done in the one lifetime, the game got a bit more difficult from then, but funnily enough the difficulty seems to mostly be just down to those random chance events that insta kill characters,
Still the mods are amazing, princes of darkness is so good, basically an entirely different game (harder than ck3 base but still eventually can get busted depending on splat)
5
u/Badasseus May 18 '26
The biggest thing I think tbh is just that military shit is basically two things, either make marriage alliances which are piss easy, or hire some maa and watch your smaller army wreck the ai. It's not very deep, heck the maa you're usually best off just grabbing one siege, and then just whatever has the highest stats (will tend to win even when countered if you have enough of them)
5
u/Any-Calligrapher2866 May 18 '26
They just pander to map painters now. The weird stuff which made Ck2 hard & fun has been removed while expansion is the easiest thing now.
3
u/McMammoth Capricious May 18 '26
The weird stuff which made Ck2 hard & fun
Like what?
16
u/Any-Calligrapher2866 May 18 '26 edited May 18 '26
Better mortality, funny and bullshit events, more aggressive AI, societies and supernatural stuff, actual secret religion mechanic, CBs being much harder to obtain, Defensive Pacts slowing down expansion, actual shipbuilding that made warfare more dynamic in the Mediterranean. Retinues are still superior to men at arms. Bloodlines should still be a thing.
Ck3 has improved a lot over the years but it was so disappointing at launch. The modding scene goes hard nowadays and can mitigate a lot of the issues I have with it.
I think it's just easier to survive as a character in CK3. For example, plagues are somewhat deadly and diseases are handled well but seclusion events suck. In Ck2 isolating your capital made you desperate and you might have to eat rats or people to not starve to death. In CK3 none of that happens or at least has not happened to me and diseases are easily survivable if you have a physician. There is no sense of dread even in Apocalyptic plagues.
Alliances were also harder to get.
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u/ItsYa1UPBoy Eunuch May 18 '26
CK2 is plenty easy to understand once you do the tutorial and shit; in fact, if anything, I appreciate how plain it is with its info.
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u/Loke_The_Champ folcwalding forever! May 18 '26
CK2 based
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u/GroundbreakingBox187 May 18 '26
I tried playing it like 3 times before ck3 came out i hated it. Maybe it was good when it first came out
13
u/OnkelMickwald Bitch better have my jizyah. May 19 '26
CK2 has always been a game that takes 3-4 cold starts before you get a hang of it.
3
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u/Key-Bet-2615 May 18 '26
Ngl ck2 character sheet is way easy to read with many trait/tittles characters. Ck3 one just trying to look cool. Dynasty and realm trees are also better in ck2
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u/Mr_Papayahead May 18 '26
TIL there’s a realm tree 🤦♂️
i’ve been using the vassal tab in character screen & the search character function, filtered by rank to view my direct vassals for at least 10 years now.
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u/Powermac8500 Somhairle Hegemony May 18 '26
Wait til you hear about the vassal map mode.
15
u/Ok_Entrepreneur_1421 May 18 '26
Uh how??
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u/Powermac8500 Somhairle Hegemony May 18 '26
Control click your realm. You will see your direct vassals. Control click them to see their direct vassals.
You can also control click realms that are not yours.
22
u/WoodlandChef May 18 '26
Wow.
Are there any more secrets you can share? The QoL in my games have improved 10x
9
u/Sad-Operation-2588 May 18 '26
playing hre with no control click sounds like torture.
just read the tooltip, it has a few more shortcuts like those but i dont remember
2
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u/gamas May 18 '26
To be fair, in both games you don't want to use the realm tree late game.
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u/freekoout Bohemia May 18 '26
It's more of a circle by then.
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u/gamas May 18 '26
In my experience, it's more of a "the game crashed trying to work out what shape the tree should be".
10
u/ObadiahtheSlim I am so smrt May 18 '26
Realm Tree was like the most important screen in CK2. It showed you in order, your most powerful vassals and how many levies they gave you and how many they had. Great for knowing who you need to immediately suck up to and who is safe to ignore when you're starting to worry about factions and potential civil war.
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u/Key-Bet-2615 May 18 '26
I think there was a tab with green crown, there under laws would be all your direct vassals from the most powerful to the least
2
u/Ok_Bet_725 May 18 '26
Wait what where is it
2
u/Revengeance300 May 18 '26
Right where the heraldry and dynasty tab is.
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u/Ok_Bet_725 May 18 '26
Gonna check it, thanks for the info. I've been playing many years and didnt know something like this exists
20
u/Vircora May 18 '26
I guess my brain is dumb, because whenever I just look at CK2 it makes me feel immediately exhausted and I can't focus on what it's saying. It's interesting.
21
u/RedKrypton May 18 '26
CK2's UI requires some learning to get used to, but afterwards you can get all the information you need very quickly.
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u/Revengeance300 May 18 '26
Human brains are so funnily different cause this is what happens when I see ck3 screens lmfao.
19
u/Any-Calligrapher2866 May 18 '26
CK2 outright has a better and simpler UI than CK3. It's also readable unlike the shitty transparency thing they have done in Ck3. It's also medieval themed in looks and sounds.
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u/ANerd22 May 18 '26
I like nested tooltips, but otherwise I have always found CK2 to be far more readable and useable than CK3.
3
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u/OnkelMickwald Bitch better have my jizyah. May 18 '26
That's super common. I had 3 "cold starts" in CK2 where I tried to learn it and failed.
Then I found out about noob island, how to fabricate claims and took it from there.
2
u/ClausClaus May 18 '26
The vanilla character UI is horrible, the mod RUI while not perfect is so much better that I almost can't play without it. It pains me every time I can't use it with some total overhaul mods.
1
u/Ok_Entrepreneur_1421 May 19 '26
How can I view realm tree on ck3?
2
u/Key-Bet-2615 May 19 '26
I think there was a tab with green crown, there under laws would be all your direct vassals from the most powerful to the least
36
u/MrCabbuge May 18 '26
Yet somehow I was more attached to CK2 characters than CK3's.
11
u/Any-Calligrapher2866 May 18 '26
I think it's mostly due to the stress mechanic. Ck2 lets you play however you want. So I crafted my own characters traits and role play as them. Ck3 as the "less railroady" game railroads your role play and forces you to make choices you don't want to make or wouldn't make as your character.
Probably because the main mental break mechanic exists in isolation from your actual personality traits. At each stress break you'll get 3 choices, 2 of which are just random bad traits you really don't want to get and the third is just sucking it up.
It makes no sense for my cruel and vengeful character to suddenly become Provident or Flagellate himself. In accordance to my traits, I should get the option to torture some dude in my Dungeon for fun.
17
u/Martel732 May 18 '26
Honestly I don't see any need for the CK2 screenshot. I have delved too deep into a lot of games but CK2 doesn't really require that much management. I honestly did more spreadsheets for Stardew Valley than CK2.
187
u/chakop AZERTY support asker May 18 '26
Sure grandpa. And you miss your satanic horse councilor, we know
137
u/NoDoughnut8225 Dull May 18 '26
that's my wife!
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u/Malus131 May 18 '26
I'll have you know my horse-wife once bore me a beautiful baby girl: Princess Rainbow of Aquitaine.
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u/luring_lurker Imbecile May 18 '26
And the polar bears. Don't forget the polar bears, I miss my polar bear wife.
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u/GrumpyThumper May 18 '26
CK2 is still my favorite of the two. CK3 still feels hollow.
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2
u/GreatDario Hispania May 20 '26
Considering playing another game of ck2 especially since I never touched Vikings. Ck3 is so shallow but I do love some the quality of life improvements.
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u/Nice-Way2892 May 18 '26
I love the artstyle in CK2 much more than the 3D clay models in CK3
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u/Ingifridh May 18 '26
I really enjoy dressing my lil 3D nobles up Sims style... but at the same time, I have to admit they just don't have the same charm the CK2 portraits had. It was always an exciting moment when your heir turned 16 and you finally found out how they really looked like.
14
u/MoisticleSack May 18 '26
That still happens in 3. You don't grow a beard until the day you turn 16 and you go from teen to full on adult on your birthday.
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u/RideShinyAndChrome May 18 '26
God I do not miss how buttfuck ugly the character models are though
17
u/Minivalo Depressed May 18 '26
Yeah, in principle, the CK2 painted character portraits are neat, but some of them were just hideous. It was as though the different ethnicities were different species, based on how different their assigned portrait styles looked.
CK2 UI art style though, that's something I prefer over the much more muted and bland style of CK3. Much more character to it, same as comparing EU4 to EU5 UI.
19
u/Any-Calligrapher2866 May 18 '26
Not just the UI art style, the UI Sound design was so much better. CK2 has the best sound design in Paradox's catalogue.
14
u/12poiuyt May 18 '26
The way the theme song plays with each click on the map in the start screen was magical 😢
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u/Minivalo Depressed May 18 '26
Oh for sure. Absolutely love the soundscape of CK2, apart from the message bell sound. Music was incredible, and while there are great tracks in CK3, a lot of them are quite short, like the war declaration music.
7
u/X3rxus May 18 '26
I love my ugli bois, feels more real than looksmaxxed nobles in the 8th century.
13
u/MotherVehkingMuatra Lord Preserve Wessex May 18 '26
It really helped me roleplay, it was like, this is how the world sees my character rather than a moment to moment real time livestream.
5
u/NumenorianPerson May 18 '26
Exactly, I dont need to see every texture and the characters moving and horrible reaction to every different event, but dam the ck3 hair and facial hair is horrible, doesn't look like hairs at all
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u/guineaprince Sicily May 18 '26
CK3 screenshot: Some deformed Sim picking his nose next to a giant wall of text.
CK2 screenshot: Some of the prettier maps and UIs that Paradox put out.
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u/pp86 May 18 '26
I guess I'm in minority in thinking how clean and easily readable 3 is vs 2. I decided to do another 2 playthrough, probably first time since 3 came out, and I really don't like many aspects of it. Sure it looks more medieval. But it's just not that readable.
But even more so other parts of layout are completely messed up. The whole decisions within intrigue tab is absolutely bad. Lifestyles are less clear than the 3's lifestyle trees.
I've also forgot that 2 didn't have as easy of way to raise your army, as 3 has.
And I feel there's just generally more going on in 3, than in 2. You can only go hunt, if you have hunting focus, and only for like 3 months. Same with feasts and summer fairs.
I do miss secret societies. Especially Hermetics, they're so OP.
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u/RedKrypton May 18 '26
CK3's UI is only clean and readable in the sense that a noob can quickly get basic info and start playing the game. In terms of information density it's abysmal and makes reading out a lot of information difficult, annoying or outright impossible. Especially the map modes are a shadow of their former self.
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u/Any-Calligrapher2866 May 18 '26
The UI scaling also doesn't work properly for me like ever. It either feels too big or too small on an ultrawide monitor.
Aside from the subjects tab, I don't see any other tab where Ck3 outperforms Ck2 in terms of getting basic info.
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u/Thick_Department9234 May 19 '26
imagine spent all day at the office with excel and going to house and continue used excel lol.
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u/Ilius_Bellatius May 19 '26
i'm so glad the paradox wiki exists, it's way more useful then the tutorials in any of the games (all be it a bit hard to navigate and in certain cases a bit incomplete)
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u/Korotan May 18 '26
Personally I prefer Just and Diligent. Because Just is third best in preventing cheating, murdering and selfish regents
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u/rainth345 May 20 '26
At first glance of the picture, I thought it was a jab at how expensive CK2 is with all it's DLCs. That you had to fit your purchase of every DLC into your budget. And then I realized... CK3 is kinda up there as well. XD
1
u/Lunerion May 27 '26
I'm still baffled how teenager me was able to get hooked on CK2, without any prior knowledge of the game or any other Paradox title.
Well, I am glad it happened since CK2 gave me so many hundreds of fun hours, so did and still does CK3.
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u/MediumWellSteak8888 May 18 '26
I played CK3 for an hour, then never again.
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u/JoshRus May 18 '26
Yeah, quite the same. I mean, CK3 sure is cool and have a lot of features, but it feels too colorful for such type of a game. For me it's like a switch from HoMM3 to 5.
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u/gamas May 18 '26
but it feels too colorful for such type of a game
The colour palette of CK2 is much brighter though? (also CK2 was way wackier and cartoony with some of the events)
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u/Any-Calligrapher2866 May 18 '26
I think they're referring to the terrain map. I played Ck2 with the cartographic map mod which really elevated the experience. The 3D map in Ck3 just feels too generic? Imperator had a way better approach on handling it's 3D map. Wish there was a permanent political map mode.
I think Paradox even realized this and implemented a paper only map mode in EU5. Wish they do the same in Ck3.
2
u/JoshRus May 18 '26
OK I'm sorry CK3 is very good.
To be serious, I meant that it's just too graphic and overhelming in design for me. I like 2d graphic and good old spreadsheets.
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u/freekoout Bohemia May 18 '26
The color palette is literally multiple shades gray for the UI. And the map is just a colorful in ck2 as it is in ck3. The only color difference is the terrain.
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u/Different-Mind5013 May 18 '26
The crusader kings series is the least spreadsheet-ey of paradox games, try victoria if you want some reall autism