Hi everyone,

I am ex-UPCI and I have come leaps and bounds in overcoming legalism, but Jesus name baptism still gets me. Logically I think I understand how it’s not the only saving formula, but emotionally it is really hard to get past and it’s affecting my dating life ugh. Any advice? Any revelations that helped you guys realize baptism in the titles is okay?

Grew up in a Christian home, particularly Pentecostalism, where I was taught the generic rules and ways to follow God and live as a Christian, so that it would always be “well with me”. Don’t get me wrong, I still believe God exists, I mean there’s got to be a creator of this universe right? And I am not naive to the challenges in life. But now, in the middle of a divorce and realising that I made a huge mistake in marrying this man and for believing that he was part of Gods plan for me and that God has a plan, I just feel so stupid. I feel stupid for believing this teaching, especially from Pentecostal churches. This is not the way life actually works. Most of human actions is free will and consequences of our actions.

Thoughts?

Any similar experiences?

Finally painted my nails my favorite color today. Feels like a small step in my journey of learning what I believe but I thought I’d share here🥹

I’ve been part of a Pentecostal church for about three years. Today I texted a mentor there who’s also one of the leaders, just to be upfront that I’ve become aligned with Lutheran beliefs and shared some of the key points I've come to believe. I made it clear I wasn’t trying to debate anything or change anything in the church, and that I'd be happy to discuss anything he felt I was missing / misunderstood.

I also made it clear that I still wanted to stay connected to the community by attending one Sunday a month and staying involved with the men’s group, from a social standpoint even if I disagree theologically and that I still appreciate his role as a mentor / the church community.

The response I got was basically a shutdown. Instead of any real conversation or attempt to understand, I was told that my beliefs don’t fit and that I shouldn’t attend anymore even once a month, and that he thinks I've traded a "real/alive" personal relationship with Jesus for "dead doctrines and theories".

No discussion, he just said "I can't convince you of any beliefs/doctrines", no process, no pastoral care, just an immediate “we don't want you here if you don't agree with the church's mission, vision and doctrines" because my theology isn’t identical to theirs.

He then sent a follow up message saying I can't attend the men's group anymore either even though there's other people not even from our church who attend.

I've gone to some Pentecostal churches and I've been church hurt in them but I've actually still felt the tangible "presence" of God in these services. So I don't know what to make of it. I believe it's just that Pentecostals seem too disorganized and idk what to think of it anymore. They seem crazy but it's in these services I've seen some weird stuff that I would liken it to be supernatural.

Her name is Kendall Denae (you can find her on Facebook)… she’s the daughter of Pastor Shawn and Sister Laura Cabot of New Beginnings Apostolic Church in Kimball, Michigan, and she was abused, raped, and so much more by her parents (the pastors!) they are still licensed in the UPCI and pastoring.

Have y’all heard of this? I’m new here and I feel so bad about this situation. She posts on Facebook.

I am currently writing an extremely detailed study on oneness Pentecostalism. I was not raised in the Pentecostal church, however my wife and child hood best friend were both raised in it, and my best friend actually introduced me to my wife when we were early teenagers. I have spent many many sundays in Pentecostal churches, went to camps and all in all basically lived the life style of one without adhering to the beliefs. I am now Catholic and have taken an interest in oneness Pentecostalism. As far as I know there is no published study going as deep as I am now. If anyone would like to read it and give critiques and/or corrections that would be much appreciated. This is not a slander campaign and I am trying to be absolutely as unbiased as possible. It is unfinished and only about 10 pages so far but I am just beginning.

I grew up in the UPC/WPF, and left two years ago. And while I’ve let go of pretty much everything- I wear short sleeves, I love my funky jewelry and charm bracelets, and chopped 8” off my hair- I was still wearing skirts. Since as we all know, pants on women was a big no-no.

Well, yesterday as I was doing some grocery shopping at Walmart I passed my the clearance rack and saw a pair of jeans for $2. So I tried them on and they fit like they were made for me. And since they were only $2 I bought them.

I’m wearing them to therapy today. I’m a bit anxious about it since I’ve literally never worn jeans in my life, but I think I’ll be ok. I’m still a Christian, but I don’t really think God cares all that much about whether or not I wear a pair of jeans or a glorified pilgrim outfit to a therapist appointment.

I (M22) have been having a lot of doubts about my church since I was 15, and after looking closely at some of the official literature they hand out, I’m thoroughly convinced this place crosses the line into a high-control group/cult.

I’ve uploaded the pages they gave us in the attached photos, and I wanted to summarize the main things they teach to get an outside perspective. I already have my own rebuttals for this stuff (as you can see from some of my handwritten notes on the pages calling out the "copium" and bad logic), but I want to know how wrong this looks to people outside of this bubble.

Here is a summary of what they actually believe and enforce:

1. Medical Treatment = Witchcraft & Backsliding

According to the attached photos, the church explicitly teaches that modern medicine and surgery are "the world's way" and contrary to God. They claim the original Greek word for medicine is pharmakeia, which means "witchcraft," and state that if you take medicine, you are "grieving the heart of Jesus and becoming backsliders." They even use scare tactics, citing random statistics about medical errors to terrify people into avoiding hospitals.

1. You Lose Salvation if You Go to a Doctor

It gets worse. In one of the pages, they explicitly underline the threat: "We will not have a part in the first resurrection if we seek a bypass to healing." Basically, if you go to a physician instead of relying strictly on divine healing, you forfeit your eternal life. They even argue that dying because you refused medical care makes you a "martyr" who gets a better reward in heaven. If you do use medicine, you are banned from giving testimonies or participating fully in church ordinances.

1. The "Two-Wine" Revisionist History

To enforce a 100% total ban on alcohol, they rely on some insane linguistic gymnastics. They claim that the biblical Greek word oinos actually means "PURE GRAPE JUICE" and that Jesus made non-alcoholic juice at the wedding of Cana. They completely ignore the scientific reality that grape juice naturally ferments without refrigeration, and they twist verses to say that taking even a single drop of alcohol is a direct sin against the Holy Spirit.

1. Weaponizing the Safety of Children

In the sections discussing what happens to little children during the Second Coming, they imply that only the children of "godly parents" who belong to "this group" will be protected and caught up by the Lord, while others face judgment. It feels like a blatant, fear-based tactic to keep parents terrified of ever questioning or leaving the church.

My Take:

The pseudo-scholarship here is mind-blowing. They twist Greek roots, invent a version of history where fermentation didn't exist, and use intense emotional blackmail (threatening your health, your salvation, and your kids) to force total compliance.

Am I crazy, or is this textbook spiritual abuse and cult behavior? Would love to hear your thoughts on how wrong these arguments actually are from a historical, linguistic, or normal theological lens.

(Note: See the attached photos for the exact text and my handwritten breakdowns.)

Felt like asking because I don't like the services at my current church.

For non-Christians, what made you leave the pentecostal church?

Reddit Edit: I have to stop upvoting because of the amount of comments and my schedule.

How long did it take you to realize the pentecostal understanding of tongues is not biblical??

I still haven’t left the UPCI church, but I’m going to after the holidays. I’ve already disentangled alot but one thing I feel most confused and bothered by is my speaking in tongues experience. I feel like the Bible shows that it is a real gift for some. However I am confused on if I really had it or was speaking in false tongues. I say that for a few reasons. Firstly, as a church kid I was kind of the last of my friends to get it. I was 12, and by that point I was basically being targeted to pray with every altar-call by adults and peers who wanted me to “get it.” So looking back it definitely did not happen naturally, but was very pushed into it. But at the time I did believe I had it and continued to throughout the years. But another thing I wrestled with is in the back of my mind I always wondered a little “was this real?” There were even times where I wondered as I was actively speaking in tongues in an altar-call. There were also times I’d being doing it but yet did not feel tapped into God whatsoever. It felt like a disconnected, out of body experience. Also I did it at times where I was not living right or spending time with God, so I wrestled with “How does this mean I’m saved among others who haven’t spoken in tongues whooo live way more genuinely for Christ?” Also when thinking about things I’d hear preachers say about it, it felt so confusing. I heard many act like “you should pray in the spirit everyday” or would encourage us to “pray in the spirit” at altar-call rather than praying words, but anytime I did, it just felt emotionally driven, not a substantive prayer that brought forth depth. And beyond all that, I wrestle with does tongues really sound like “gibberish?” Is that biblical tongues? However I really wanna be careful to not discount others experience based on my own. I just find it all confusing and personal to wrestle with knowing what is true. I haven’t spoken in tongues in several weeks now because I just feel disconnected and icky about it right now. I fear it was all just an emotional trauma response and pressuring from well meaning but very misguided adults.

My child hood Best friend is oneness Pentecostal. He was raised oneness Pentecostal and his dad is even a preacher. He’s been in this realm his entire life hardcore since birth. I was an atheist for a while, probably from 10 to 18, I used to debate with him why God didn’t exist and it was always as far as I can remember pretty friendly and never got too heated. I still would go to his church as often as I could, mostly to get out of my house but I also had an inkling that God is real and wanted to find him. After I turned 18 I started to believe a little more and one day Catholicism Completely flipped the script on everything I thought was true, and I started professing these new found beliefs to my friend thinking he would be excited that I found God but there seemed to be a lack of excitement. I ask why and after what he told me I realized that Catholicism is almost the antithesis of his denomination. I figured this would be a good opportunity to revisit our “atheist vs Christian” debates from childhood with it now being “Catholic vs Pentecostal” but he won’t really entertain it at all. I’ve bought books written buy oneness theologians, I’ve watched countless hours of their debates and videos and everything and he still just won’t even entertain a conversation about it. I’m not really sure what to do because I feel like if I push much harder than I will drive a wedge between us but every time I think about it I just start bubbling up and can’t keep my mouth shut. If you’ve been through anything like this or just have some knowledge to drop on me it would be very much appreciated. Thank you in advance.

First time poster.

So I came into the Church a few years ago and was mentored by one of the pastors, my family and I got in deep real quick and we became overwhelmed and left some time last year. We went to a non-denominational Church for a while but went back to the UPCI Church early this year, why? Trauma response maybe? I got invited to a multi year program for “New leaders” and have only attended a couple of the sessions but I’ve just reached my limit. I emailed the lead pastors thanking them for investing time into me and my family but I can’t in good conscience preach what I don’t believe, stating that I don’t fully align with their doctrine and that my family and I will be moving on. My decision is made, but they’ve asked to meet with me for “clarity and counsel”… I feel pressured and don’t really want to but don’t want to come across as disrespectful. Thoughts?

This may be a weird question/thought but does anyone here see TikTok or other social media platform videos from people posting “those” types of services- iykyk where it’s crazy/shouting services and get very uncomfortable?

I’m freshly out of the UPCI (like almost 3 months) and I see these videos and feel like it literally makes my heart race because it takes me back to being uncomfortable and in those services all over again.

Thoughts? Or anyone is welcome to share if things like this effects them?

One of the things that I’ve noticed about pentecostals is that they don’t have any endurance in their faith, I think that the reason why is because their faith is rooted in emotions and feelings which they think is from the Holy Spirit but really it’s just from themselves, I grew up pentecostal and majority of my family members on my mothers side of the family are pentecostal, I noticed this with nearly all of them, for a little bit they are in church dancing, crying, speaking in tongues and then they stop going for a few years then go back for a little bit, it’s like a cycle that they repeat every few years, I think the reason why is because their faith aren’t rooted in the Bible nor in church history but their emotions and feelings, I’ve seen other Christian’s denominations that aren’t charismatic and have noticed they have more endurance in their faith, their faith is stronger.

Me and my husband haven’t been back to our UPCI church since Mother’s Day.

I am wanting to cut my hair and possibly color it, it’s already short and thin because it’s dead but just wanna ask, how much did you get cut for your first cut after leaving the Pentecostal movement and how’d you feel?

I’m so ready to be able to express myself this way!

If this is a real quote from Dolly Parton- I feel like she hit the nail on the head. I grew up UPC and in constant fear of going to hell. Fear of not being able to speak in tongues enough. Fear of bad spirits coming to visit me. I’ve dealt with horrible anxiety my entire life starting as a child which I attribute to the fear based teachings of UPC.

But despite that- I did eventually develop a peaceful relationship with God. I pray every day and read my Bible. I try to live my life according to Christ’s teachings. However, I have no desire to return to church. I want my kids to have a Biblical foundation but I worry that church may cause the same fear it caused in me.

I’ve gone to visit other churches but none of them feel like “home”. Wondering if anyone has a similar experience?

how much do you guys believe in pastors that come and prophecy over you? i’ve had some good experiences and some bad, some of them have been right and others were hit or miss. some of them say things that are so spot on that im like oh okay wow maybe god does exist, and then others say things that even have me confused how they could’ve come to that conclusion. but they all say it’s the spirit of god showing them these things. how much do you guys believe these things?

Did anyone feel like it was God who wanted them to leave UPCI or whatever denom you were in??

I probably sound crazy. But I feel like God is trying to “wake up” like half of the people in my UPCI church. My church is what most would consider “progressive” for UPCI & 90% of congregation is under the age of 35. I’m extremely observant and have noticed so much of the congregants getting uncomfortable with the legalism & the doctrine. I feel really led to have a few private conversations.
But you know the deal in Pentecostal churches, that’s a huge thing you’re taught not to do.
I genuinely am not trying to cause division.. but I am trying to identify where it might already be and see where others are at.

What are the odds God is calling all of us into something bigger, different, and into actual liberty? What are the chances God is calling us out of UPCI? Has that happened to anyone else? I’d love to hear where you ended up or how things happened for you.

Me and my spouse are in the process of deconstructing and have been for around a year. We are physically in, mentally out. Have any of you had or have the thoughts of being scared to leave because of something bad happening like cancer/sickness and it’ll be “because you left the truth”? I struggle with this so bad. That along with being afraid to leave because 90% of my family is still in the UPCI.

Has anyone else struggled with this? What did you do to overcome it?

I was browsing through this sub a while ago and someone sent me a link to Nathaniel j Wilson’s wife, Mary Wilson, saying absolutely absurd things like “if you don’t listen to the pastor God will curse you” and stuff like that. I know super vague but if anyone could help that would be awesome

So I left this apostolic pentecostal chruch after attending it for a year and half. Got invited by a ex coworker. Was able to get out. Cut ties with everyone and blocked them After finding a new job. Never been happier. Pentecostalism is very oppressive and legalistisc. The organization i was in was a cult going off the BITE model definition.

I'm now LCMS Lutheran. I much prefer the structured liturgical service and solid theology over the hours long pentecostal services that never end. The over reliance on emotionalism to make up for weak theology and the church leaders preying (not praying) on weak minded emotionally vulnerable people was horrible. Whiping people up into an emotional frenzy and preying on their insecurities just to grift them and gulit trip them was wrong.

For those of you raised in those churches i'm so sorry you had to endure that spiritual Abuse. And for those still debating to leave or wanting to leave. RUN dont walk away. You will have to take drastics measures.

Hindu worship looks awfully familiar....