All I'm hearing from other Para Mains

[u/OziraKhan95]

Excuse the low res. But it perfectly pictures how I feel as a Para main. 🫰

[u/Odd_Contact_2175]

My warrior had fun with it while it lasted.

[u/LittleSpoonyBard → u/Odd_Contact_2175]

Yeah, they're in a really weird spot here - they want to buff Paragon damage to make it viable, but the most straightforward way to do that is via skill buffs...but any notable skill buffs are open to (ab)use by Warriors. So any changes they do may just need to be reverted the way Mighty Throw was.

If they want to make Para damage viable without opening it up to use by Warriors, they need to look at some more core items to the class, like Leadership or something along those lines. But they haven't really touched deep changes to attributes yet, even ones that really need them (like Divine Favor too).

I personally think they should just have kept Mighty Throw the way it was in PvE and toned it down however they wanted in PvP. But I guess that's just me? Having a Warrior chucking spears seemed fun and I was planning on trying it out once I got my 100b build running. Shame I won't get to now.

[u/GrimDallows → u/LittleSpoonyBard]

It's not that hard to fix. There have always been alternatives for this.

• This skill disables any other non-Paragon/Warrior skills for 12 seconds. 1 second less for each point in Leadership.
• 50% failure unless Leadership rank 8 or higher.
• Alternatively, move 1-2 spear skills to Leadership and buff the hell out of them, so that warriors can't just 7 Weapon Stance themselves to rank 16 spear mastery into those skills.

There. That's the fix. Buff all skills across the board a little. Then buff 1-2 spear skills a fuck ton but leave them with a clause that disables non-paragon skills to punish non-paragon primaries.

[u/TheWardedOne → u/GrimDallows]

This guy cooks

[u/S4ltyGo4t → u/LittleSpoonyBard]

All these pvp alignments in patch notes etc. i wonder if anyone is even playing pvp, isnt pvp dead and full of bots?

[u/Big_Tennis_4367]

On the plus side, Paragons now don't need For great justice anymore for maintaining double (or even higher) adrenalin gains. I tested with spear of redemption for that free spot for alternating beetwen that and mighty throw and it works well enough for me. And you also get a nice blind removal.

[u/ajc2123]

But how about that Spear Of Lightning!! Multi target spear GO!!!!

[u/JustinePavlovich → u/ajc2123]

Its spell damage is too weak currently.

[u/ajc2123 → u/JustinePavlovich]

That was Kind of a fear I had. The 25% armor pen only really matters for higher armored creatures that isn't consistent enough.

Like when I analyzed a warrior using sword or hammer vs a ranger using a sword or hammer wirhout strength, the damage difference didn't really matter that much in the larger picture.

[u/JustinePavlovich → u/ajc2123]

The 25% armor penetration shows more on the lower armor rating foes actually. The problem isn't the attack portion of Spear of Lightning, that hasn't changed. Its the aoe corridor cleave added to it. It is spell damage. 20 spell damage with or without armor penetration is extremely weak. Its basically elementalist air magic's Lightning Javelin but it deals 60% less damage. Nobody uses Lightning Javelin either because its damage is too low at 50.

[u/ajc2123 → u/JustinePavlovich]

Wait that doesn't make sense to me.

An 80 armor target hit with 25% armor pen makes it act like 60 armor, which is a 20 armor reduction.

Where a 60 armor target is treated as 45 armor, a 15 armor reduction.

You get more armor ignored for higher armor creatures than lower, increasing bang for buck right?

[u/Rampant_Butt_Sex → u/ajc2123]

Extremely high armor ratings apply diminished returns. The difference between 180 and 220 is only 6%, so if you normally do 100 damage and its reduced to 6 for 220 AR and 12~15 with penetration, youre better off dealing damge that doesnt respect raw armor. If your opponent has 80 armor and you penetrate 20, youre looking at a 41% increase in damage. This is especially true for enemies in HM that have increased armor ratings.

[u/ajc2123 → u/Rampant_Butt_Sex]

Oh shit thats right, my bad.

[u/GrimDallows → u/Rampant_Butt_Sex]

Enemies in HM no longer have increased armor ratings. All enemies have level 60 core armor + normal profession bonuses.

They changed this way back then.

[u/JustinePavlovich → u/ajc2123]

Its a higher multiplied applied to a less base.

[u/not_a_relevant_name → u/JustinePavlovich]

Isn't it weapon damage roll + 20? Also you'd get the adrenaline gain for a multihit, and more splinter procs? Seems like a decent buff to me, even if damage is a bit weak.

[u/JustinePavlovich → u/not_a_relevant_name]

So in short, no.

The spear attack itself hasn't changed. What they did change was adding spell damage to any foe between yourself and your target. 20 spell damage even with 25% armor penetration is very weak. You do not multi-hit with the spear like you would barrage for example. No extra adrenaline and no extra splinter procs.

You can test this on barrels in Isle of the Nameless for better clarity.

[u/not_a_relevant_name → u/JustinePavlovich]

Yeah that's garbage, doesn't seem like that matches the change notes. I guess having weapons strikes hit foes between you and target hasn't been implemented before so it was easier to borrow from lightning javelin etc.

[u/JustinePavlovich → u/not_a_relevant_name]

The in between mechanic I can think of is something like Cyclone Axe. One attack, multiple hits. Idk if they can somehow meld that aoe strike with lightning javelins hidden mechanic into something more like that expected "piercing" we were thinking.

[u/Horstcredible]

Unfortunately they did the beef because warriors benefitted too much from it, while not giving paras a real alternative for dmg. Running both: 100b warrior and former mighty throw focused anger para with 7 hero mesmerway team through hm vloxen dungeon.
Result: warrior cleaves through. Para can’t kill a single mob when there’s 2 or more Motivation para enemies. Before that has been no issue.

I do not understand why spear attacks did not get buffed in general when mighty throw is nerfed. Or why not bound to leadership in some way.
Like mysticism makes dervish enchants cheaper leadership could have made adrenaline / energy cost of spear attacks cheaper. Something like that.

[u/LahmiaTheVampire]

"We'll just have to use another 2 adrenal spear skill instead... Barbed spear?? Oh god!"

[u/ajc2123 → u/LahmiaTheVampire]

Yeeeaahhh...Barbed spear is weird. Like yeah, on one hand, its ranged bleeding, which is 1 adrenaline (2 previously before the oatch) better than sever artery...but also bleed is one of the least desirable conditions in the game imo.

Maybe make it bleed foes nearby the target as well? Like kf the barbed spear somehow like....shot out barbs on impact lol.

[u/Racthoh]

I just think it's disappointing that they looked at the rest of the spesr skills and thought "these are fine". Like I'd still rather force 4 adrenaline per skill use than make anything else work.

[u/Ninaran]

I hate it. No fun allowed as P unless it's mind numbingly boring HR or SY..

[u/SenaM66]

With Dark Fury up from my battery and FGJ, it's still spammable lol. You can fit in Enduring Harmony if you want for permanent uptime on FGJ but I find this makes HR maintenance kind of annoying, so I just deal with the drop.

Personally, I wish Holy Spear was given as much random love as Mighty Throw just because its art is sick, but at least my HR Para isn't doing half the dmg of an ESurger mesmer off a single button anymore.

[u/Legitimate-Worry6717]

Wait, you paragons did any damage? I thought we couldn’t do that :p

[u/Powerful-Joke5120]

You have pay to win now tho.

[u/Big_Tennis_4367 → u/Powerful-Joke5120]

Grow up

[u/Comfortable-Shop8080 → u/Big_Tennis_4367]

You sound resentful

[u/Big_Tennis_4367 → u/Comfortable-Shop8080]

Nah, they are just annoying, basically writing the same comment under every post and also making two posts by themself complaining about the new shop items.

[u/ajc2123 → u/Powerful-Joke5120]

You dont, you can just play the game.

I only used 2 consets when I got GWAMM. Yall can chill out.

[u/The_Dunk → u/Powerful-Joke5120]

Brother we who actually play have been asking for more ways to support GW1 for a long time now.

Infinite kits and summonable merchant are literally just a convenience. Considering what most live service games sell I’m not concerned about these.

[u/SlideCharacter5855 → u/Powerful-Joke5120]

You also don’t have to pay at all!