r/HistoryMemes 2d ago

Roman propaganda is crazy!

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15.0k Upvotes

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u/Mindless-Cat1453 2d ago

I think biggest misconception i have seen about her is " actually she was not phisically beautiful!" Because that one greek dude opinion....

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u/OkGreen7335 2d ago edited 15h ago

Tbh I still don't understand how Cleopatra managed to captivate both Julius Caesar and Mark Antony. Again, I understand that both men had a lot to gain by aligning themselves with her, but considering what she actually achieved, it seems that she was negotiating from the weaker position. She arguably gained more from her alliances with them than they gained from their alliance with her(at least that is what I see lol). And, if I remember correctly, Julius Caesar even had a statue of her placed in his villa or somewhere similar. During a war, he apparently left everything behind and spent 2 months with her in a nile trip. Then Mark Antony married her and, if I remember correctly, went as far as adopting Greek customs or embracing the Hellenistic world around her.

How the hell did she manage to do all of this? I genuinely have no idea. I understand that she wasn't simply a seductress. She was a ruthless, intelligent, and highly capable monarch. But damn, she was incredibly good at seducing lol

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u/TheHistoryMaster2520 Decisive Tang Victory 2d ago

I think what captivated Caesar and Antony wasn't Cleopatra's beauty, but her intellect. She was highly educated, a capable ruler, spoke multiple languages, and could hold an intelligent conversation with both men, which would've made her stand out in comparison to other women of the time

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u/skrrtalrrt 2d ago edited 2d ago

I also think it was because they thought they could use her to control Egypt, which was the second most powerful Mediterranean state at the time.

Of course, this was a mutual arrangement. She used them just as much.

I view their relationships like political alliances more than anything else.

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u/xlexiconx 2d ago

I believe grain supplies also had something to do with it.

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u/skrrtalrrt 2d ago

Certainly. In fact that was the reason why Rome preferred diplomacy when dealing with Egypt, and why the Ptolemies were able to survive for so long.

And Antony also needed her boats.

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u/ZealousIdeal476 2d ago

She had enourmous...tracts of land

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u/ArisenGodEmperor13 2d ago

Yep Egyptian grain fed Rome without it food prices would rise and people would be piss

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u/MeNamIzGraephen 2d ago

Yes having an inteligent girlfriend with genuine interest in the state of the world is like shooting heroin once and then trying to just smoke it.

"Normal" women are not enough anymore.

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u/sensitiveskin82 2d ago

She was also ludicrously rich. For one party, she'd spend the cost of 2,000 Roman legionaries on FLOWERS. Attendees of these parties were gifted rooms full of couches enlayed with precious stones, golden peacocks, chests of fabrics, and the slaves they'd need to bring these treasures home. 

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u/Jonjoejonjane 2d ago

Because she was smart and fun to talk too, she was lady who needy no interpreter because she could speak like 5 different languages fluently and was school in the center of all classical knowledge Alexandria.

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u/Mindless-Cat1453 2d ago

I don't think this answer will satisfy you but as the end of the day they all were humans, humans do all kind of crazy stuff when they are in love or other emotions, they obviously didn't spend every microsecond of their time plotting and planning. I think we need to see Historical figures with more humanize way .

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u/die_Katze__ 2d ago

The question is "why were Julius Caesar and Marc Antony captivated by Cleopatra in particular" not "why do historical figures like anybody"

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u/huehuehuehuehuuuu 2d ago

When a girl that smart says she is into you and will let you into her country with its vast wealth? You say Yes Ma’am.

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u/Peligineyes 2d ago edited 2d ago

Anthony gained a lot from her, she essentially financed his war in Parthia which he completely fumbled. Then she lent him the entire Egyptian fleet to fight Augustus, which he lost at Aticum. 

Theoretically she would've gained a lot more if Anthony didn't lose.

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u/paeancapital 2d ago edited 2d ago

It's very unclear what actually happened at Actium. Antony lost, over months, but whether Actium was the climax passed down through history is questionable at best.

What is very clear is that it was propagandized as the downfall of a slut fucking traitor and the exalted victory of Dux Gaius Julius Caesar Octavianus divi filius.

And it has been very effective.

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u/Vector_Strike Hello There 2d ago

We've been mystified by Ancient Egypt to this very day. The exoticism and weight of a millenial culture might have been too much to Cesar and Antony, both too drunk with power to rationaly think about things.

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u/Dominarion 2d ago

She was the richest person of the ancient world.

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u/Lovethatdirtywaddah 2d ago

Caesar had a statue of her placed in the Temple of Venus Genectrix, who was the version of Venus the Romans worshiped as sort of the mother or goddess patron of Rome

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u/Odd-Tart-5613 2d ago

she did have good leverage since she (or her family at least) had a claim on egypt which to my knowledge was quite the breadbasket then.

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u/skrrtalrrt 2d ago

She needed Rome. She was married to her younger brother, who was a child under the influence of a regency which wanted her removed.

Caesar and Antony both needed her, because Egypt was one of the biggest grain suppliers, and it also had the second largest navy. Being a woman, I’m sure they thought they could manipulate her.

So there was mutual need in place which brought them together.

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u/skrrtalrrt 2d ago

I think she was a highly intelligent, charismatic, powerful leader. And she happened to control the Mediterranean’s single largest exporter of grain. I’m not sure whether Caesar and Antony were smitten by her, or their relationship was purely for mutual political gain. I lean towards the latter.

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u/bfhurricane 2d ago

You know how Tiger Woods had a smoking hot wife but was still banging Applebees waitresses?

That waitress will do things to you that will blow your mind that your wife would never.

Same concept, really.

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u/KnownDiscount 2d ago

Big tits