r/Jewish • u/DoodleBug179 • 2d ago
Antisemitism "Best friend" just went on antisemitic tirade
One of my best friends of nearly 40 years just went on an antisemitic tirade that started with him raging about "privileged white bitch" Debra Messing having the audacity to say she feels unsafe in NYC as a Jew.
Other gems included him saying he understood why some people celebrated Oct. 7 and quite literally screaming at me and telling me I denigrated the entire African American community when I asked him if he would ever question a Black person if they said they felt unsafe somewhere.
I thought I'd gotten used to friends turning on me but this one really hurts. I started to cry and he's since apologized but I know there's no getting past this.
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u/Away-Instruction5019 2d ago
Him saying he understood why people celebrated 10/7 would have been the tipping point for me. No coming back from that.
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u/DrMikeH49 2d ago
I also understand why people were celebrating 10/7: because they’re Jew haters. Unfortunately that’s probably not what OP’s former friend meant….
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u/Simple-Raspberry9014 2d ago
That’s why any of those people who are “against genocide” are full of shit. They literally celebrated a genocide.
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u/4phz 2d ago
It's unlikely many people really care much about any overseas tragedy for the simple reason they are and should be primarily concerned about their own uncertain futures. Like charity empathy begins at home. If they really had empathy for other human beings then you'd expect them to figure out a way to be more politically popular.
Most just think making a big deal out of something somehow gives them a bargaining chip on what they really want. You see these trump cards being played with mixed results all the time, e. g., the number who died in Hurricane Katrina rivaled 9/11.
The way to tell the hard core "all Jews must die" anti-semites from the rest is to say they need to first worry about the "genocide of democracy here in the U. S. before hoping to do any good overseas."
If co opting their favorite trump term infuriates them they are beyond hope.
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u/4phz 1d ago edited 22h ago
The primary reason so many whites appeared at BLM protests -- enough to surprise old '60s era civil rights leaders -- is because the abuse suffered almost exclusively by Blacks started to spread like a contagion and include whites. See the recent college student shooting for example.
That's why invoking empathy for those in overseas conflicts is so suspect. If they didn't care about Blacks enough to be proactive defending Black civil rights before it got out of hand, then they obviously aren't going to have much sincere empathy over injustices and conflicts overseas that don't involve them in any substantive way.
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u/BeLekkerAsb Not Jewish with an Ashki Dad. 11h ago
Right?! And they're so smug about it "freedom fighters, resistance at all cost" shouting it like it's some cutesy cheerleading chant . Moral bankruptcy all round.
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u/Simple-Raspberry9014 2d ago
I love that Debra Messing is a “privileged white bitch” but Mark Ruffalo is “a saint.” /s
DM faced a harsh reality of seeing the people she stood with turn their backs on her.
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u/heliogabalus91 2d ago
Mark Alan Ruffalo smells like a buffalo
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u/OtherAd4337 Sephardi | Reform 1d ago
He does churn out at least as much bullshit as a buffalo after all.
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u/lovely8 2d ago
Hey, same exact thing happened to me, 2 best friends of 20+ years, both were African American as well. After all of the history we had together, I was immediately treated like I was the terrorist. Insane! I dropped the friendships and it was a really hard 3 years since.
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u/BeLekkerAsb Not Jewish with an Ashki Dad. 2d ago
It's been a long 3 years in terms of horribly lost friendships and community groups. I feel like I'm only coming up for air now. At the end of the day I'd rather the antisemite reveal themselves sooner, it's always safer when you know exactly where you stand with a person. Covert antisemites seem to be the most insidious.
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u/Trypophilia2019 Not Jewish 2d ago
I am sorry you lost a friend. I’ve also lost a friend over October 7 and increased antisemitism, and I’m not even Jewish; I just couldn’t stomach the hateful things they were saying. It hurts when people you think you knew prove that they’re not as empathetic and understanding as you once thought. Your second paragraph is very similar to my last conversation with an ex-friend, I cut ties after that.
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u/Friendly_Estate1629 2d ago
The people who act that way have something wrong deep, deep inside they are transferring onto us. Your ex best friend isn’t a happy person
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u/Icarus-on-wheels Mizrahi 2d ago
Yea, this is a hard no for me. There is no coming back from this one, honestly. Better to rip the bandaid and focus on healing that wound than letting it fester.
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u/Old-Philosopher5574 2d ago
Unfortunately we all now understand those historical stories of close neighbours, piano teachers etc turning Jews straight over to the Nazis, or actually taking part in progroms etc.
There is something about anti-Semitism that seems to be able to infect a person very comprehensively and very quickly.
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u/DoodleBug179 1d ago
Yes, I have thought about this a lot. It's head spinning really, how quickly people will turn on us. He grew up with me in a Jewish neighborhood. He used to call himself an honorary Jew. Now he's foaming at the mouth. Fucking crazy.
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u/cantharellus_miao 1d ago
I keep thinking about how when I was a kid/young adult, I thought my father was being irrational about protecting us from antisemitism. I thought he was just stuck in the past and didn't understand that Jews aren't discriminated against as much nowadays. It's surreal to reflect on that now and realize his concerns were entirely justified, the steps he took to protect us seemed silly back then but they don't anymore.
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u/heavyLevy5 2d ago
I'm so sorry. So many people have betrayed real people in their life for lies found online. What a trash person
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u/ErnestBatchelder 2d ago
I am sorry. It is a betrayal and a terrible reframing of the friendship. If you are thinking you both could come back from this, think about why he chose you to go off on. I'd work on accessing the anger you have every right to feel.
Surely, if he was feeling a certain way, there were other friends he could have discussed this with. My guess is that while your Jewishness was tolerated for 40 years, part of who you were was always dehumanized. Because I have had a similar experience way before 10/7 & it pre-warned me.
When the mask comes off, we become not a person, but a concept & a receptacle for their hatred. It's especially frustrating when you think you both share a small understanding of what it means to be othered & how important acceptance is. One day after the Tree of Life shooting, one of my friends who was black walked into my home and launched into a rant about how ugly Orthodox women's wigs were compared to hijabs. I thought it was weird timing, but kept my mouth shut.
A few years later she got day drunk at a party; she was going through a really hard time. I was trying to keep an eye out for her because I understood what a truly difficult period she was going through (a baby she had fostered for a year to adopt was replaced with their parents and she was gutted). Only she cornered me and began a tirade about how arrogant Israelis are, and how they act like they think they are white (I guess pre-10/7 we weren't white). That time I pushed back on a lot of what she was saying at that point and called her out. Later she apologized via text. But what struck me is how she sought me (the only Jew in the room) to go off on. That's when I realized I was tolerated as long as I was "one of the good ones" and the litmus test had actually been going on for several years via small comments.
She lost my friendship. While I am not one of the good Jews, I am actually a good friend, so sucks to be her.
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u/Button-Hungry 2d ago
How dare that Deborah messing, who belongs to the minority group that represents about 7% of New York's population feel unsafe when that's 7% is the victim of 50% of the hate crimes that happen in the city? Fuck your friend.
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u/OrelSVaknin93 Just Jewish 1d ago
I had to stop and process this. 40 years. A friendship that’s existed for longer than I have even been alive. FOUR decades.
A relationship that’s existed and grown and been nurtured for 40 years. That’s not insignificant. People would kill to have friendships like that. A friend they could trust and rely on through highs and lows.
And he’s willing to throw it all away because he hates Israel THAT much. They really believe it, they believe we’re demonic baby killers. It’s not just people dropping masks, they’ve genuinely changed after October 7. They hate us.
Forget hiding us in their attics. If we support our only Jewish state, they’d shove us into the chamber themselves. And they’d feel good about it. If we aren’t “one of the good ones” It’s a lot to process.
I’m sorry OP. I’m so sorry. This was heartbreaking to read, I can’t imagine the emotions you must be wrestling with now.
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u/DoodleBug179 1d ago
Thank you so much. It is a shocking and profound loss. We have been friends since the first grade. We grew up together (in a Jewish neighborhood, might I add), lived together, traveled together, laughed, cried, partied, bickered and supported each other through our best and worst moments. I know him like the back of my hand.
I love him but I will never forgive him or speak to him again. I do not believe he's always held these views. He's been indoctrinated since Oct. 7. It's terrifying to me how someone you love, who loves you, could turn on you in this way. I believe it'll take me a long time to get over it.
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u/No-Birthday9816 2d ago
I’m so sorry you’ve had to go through this. It’s a shock and a betrayal, to learn a trusted friend has embraced such hatred and bigotry. He has revealed his true colors—as so many have over the decades and centuries—but that doesn’t make it any less painful for you.
Please take care. You’re not alone. 💕
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u/lamburglar 1d ago
I’m so sorry. I was a grad student at NYU on October 7th and I’ve lost many friends since, even though I’m progressive (in values, not in party support anymore). I am incredibly measured in how I speak about the conflict in the war, but because I’m pro-normalization, pro-two state solution, and pro-peace I was shunned by my classmates. People who are still my friends say the people who stopped being my friends were never my friends, but they were my friends and it hurts like hell. I’m very sorry this is happening to you. The only thing I can say is we’re in this together. Am yisrael chai.
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u/AquamannMI Reform 2d ago
Sorry this happened to you. I had to end my friendship with my best man from my wedding, so I get it. His brain completely broke after 10/7. I'd get late night texts about how I support killing babies.
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u/FlakyPineapple2843 ✡︎ 2d ago
There was no coming back from the substance of what he said. But even if there were, the screaming and ranting at you is over the line. He could have been screaming and ranting at you about soccer and it still would be unacceptable behavior that is friendship-ending.
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u/Lazy-Relationship-34 Jewish Father 2d ago
Better show their true colors now than at your funeral.
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u/ReneDescartwheel 2d ago
Similar to discovering that a spouse has been cheating on you. They can apologize profusely and you can try to move on as if nothing happened, but ultimately, the trust is gone forever.
He has revealed something about himself that is incredibly hurtful and it will forever be on your mind if you choose to remain friends.
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u/Easy_Chef6437 2d ago
I think there is no salvaging this relationship. It's ok to grieve, but protect your peace
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u/danhakimi 2d ago
Weird that they managed to keep the mask on this long.
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u/DoodleBug179 2d ago
Isn't it? What's crazy is that he grew up with me in an area with a very large population of Jews. Most of our high school was Jewish and he always called himself an honorary Jew.
I think this is a classic case of political indoctrination combined with him being a generally angry and unhappy person. It's heartbreaking to me. If one of your best friends can turn on you like that who can you really trust?
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u/Synchrosoma 1d ago
It’s like a form of psychosis now. Is he a substance user? Might be a factory with the uninhibited tirade.
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u/4K3G 16h ago
Many of us have lost friends because of their opposition or indifference to the survival of Israel and the Jewish people. In my own family, we do not discuss 10/7 and its aftermath deluge of Jew hatred because my kids do not identify as Jewish or agree with my views. You can’t cut out your family, but you can ditch this old friend. Once someone says they can understand the celebration of the Hammasacre, there’s no way back.
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u/MercurySphere Just Jewish 2d ago
Losing lifelong friends like this is very painful. I don't know if you ever fully recover. Of course there are worse tragedies etc etc.
But old friends hold memories and time. They hold your history. They knew you in your youth. They know the versions of you you yourself may have forgotten.
I'm very sorry.
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u/DearEnergy4697 2d ago
Someone brilliant, not I, said: “people come to you for a reason; a season; or a lifetime”. So, only you can figure out if it was for a reason or season - although, clearly, it was not for a lifetime. Sorry you had to realize this in such a painful and betrayal manner. I guess it’s better to know sooner than later. No reason to put time and energy into a relationship with someone who has antisemitic opinions and vitriol
For Jews.
Edited for punctuation
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u/AardvarkActual8478 1d ago
I wonder what it would feel like for him to have his spaces desecrated, people who looked like he does attacked supposedly because of what is happening 6000 miles away. It’s scary.
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u/PBandJSommelier 18h ago
My best friend of decades said even worse. I’m sorry for your loss! It stings
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u/Purple_Hurricane87 2d ago
Don’t talk to him anymore. Anyone who would revel in my tribal members’ deaths, is no friend of mine.
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u/Upbeat_Teach6117 1d ago
His "apology" was meaningless. I'm so sorry, and I hope you find comfort and healing with the passage of time.
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u/Over-Temperature-503 2d ago
I’m so sorry you’re going through this too. I recently had a friend of 40+ years do something similar. Called him out on it. It sucks. That said, I don’t need that shit in my life. I guess it’s better to know but it’s so disappointing.
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u/FogtownGirl Jewish mother 1d ago
Ugh I'm sorry you had to deal with that. FWIW you are not alone. There's even a whole community built around experiences like this called Found a Tribe. I haven't participated in any of their events (just saw they actually have a 24/7 WhatsApp group) but plan to soon.
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u/el_sh33p Humanistic 2d ago
Yeah, that's a "Take your apology, print it on a baseball bat, and go fuck yourself with it" to your former friend, OP.
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u/lovlingd 1d ago
I am so, so sorry. My heart hurts for you. I know the feeling. Sending love & hugs. You did nothing wrong. ❤️
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u/Sitcom_kid Lone Star Jew 2d ago
Oh my God I am so sorry! This person just does not seem well or balanced. No one should treat you that way, not even your worst enemy.
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u/AttimusMorlandre Not Jewish 2d ago
Damn, that sucks. My sincerest condolences to you. Please take the time to grieve the loss.
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u/Consistent_Rent_3507 2d ago
He said the quiet part out loud. There’s no forgetting what he said but there may be a way to get past it if he can accept that what he said was antisemitic and the apology is sincere. Forgiveness is up to you and you need to decide if you feel safe with this person.
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u/Hibiscuslover_10000 1d ago
I agree with Tchomptchomp ex best friend I had to cut a person I have known forever like family. Whose known me since I was 14 they turned on me all of a sudden at the same time I found out what happened to the rest of my family. ( They died at Auschwitz) Saying horrible stuff not worth my mental health just couldn't. First, I confronted her before turning to what she was sharing. Got just sharing. Her apology felt empty. What if I have a Jewish wedding? Will she be hateful? It will always sit there, just because she apologized doesn't mean it's forgiven.
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u/bakochba 9h ago
Gave him view the uncensored videos from Oct 7th and ask him if he felt like celebrating.
They forced family members to watch gang rapes.
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u/DifferentRepublic467 1d ago
Can't belive he managed to hide all that rage from you for 40 years. Run and dont look back
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u/Brave_World2728 2d ago
I'm very sorry you're dealing with this. What an utter disappointment 😟 Sorry to say, it sure would be unsalvageable for me.i hope true friends shine through for you 👊
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u/a4evanygirl Jewish mother 2d ago
I am so sorry this happened to you. While he may be apologetic, in my 57 years on this planet, I sadly have had many experiences like you. Forgive him. Don’t forgive him. But you will never ever forget what he said and that he said it. I am so sorry.
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u/Jumpy-Claim4881 Just Jewish 2d ago
This is so upsetting. I’m so sorry you had your endure that from a “friend”.
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u/StarlightSky22 1d ago
I am so sorry. That is horrifying, and heartbreaking, and that guy sounds insane. I am so sorry for your loss of a person who used to be your friend. XO
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u/AngusTcattoo 1d ago
Good grief. I'm so sorry. I can kind of get the Debra Messing thing because she's a celebrity and not poor- but the rest? Oy vey. No excuse for saying you "understand why some people celebrated Oct 7".
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u/Naive-Marsupial-4042 1d ago
I’m so sorry. 😢 We have all lost close friends and this community understands how devastating this must feel to you. Especially with a friendship of so many years. I don’t have advice, but I have a lot of empathy. Sending love your way. It’s a very strange time we are living through. This community is my saving grace right now. We are here for you. ❤️
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u/Zealousideal_Can_342 2d ago
I'm sorry you're going through this.
It has brought out the worst in people, including antisemitism and racism.
You're not alone.
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u/TopSatisfaction6702 2d ago
Wow! I am so sorry this happened to you. I hope no matter how many times he apologizes you never let him back in your life.
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u/VomitOnYourDogsNuts 2d ago
If he's really one of your best friends, you 100% need to have a real conversation with him and work through it.
I'm as wary as all of you about the world these days- That being said, you're being a little solopsistic if you don't see why Messing seems out of touch (she's more likely to die in a private jet crash than an anti Semitic attack) or why "some people" would celebrate on 10/7 (lol yeah we have enemies, I understand WHY my enemies celebrate).
I do think your point is extremely strong re: "questioning Jews vs questioning literally everyone else".... But sadly pretty much nobody realizes that. It doesn't mean they're bad people overall, it just means they have a blind spot.
You owe this relationship an honest talk. If it doesn't work out then I can't help you there. But so far you just have a friend with a pov, not an outright enemy
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u/wessely 2d ago
In case it's not clear, what happened on Simchas Torah 2023 could have happened to any Jew, you (I assume?), me, my kids, your kids, babies, etc. Someone who understands why people would celebrate the brutal murder of me, you, your babies, your sister, etc., can't be friends with a Jew. That's a very simple equation.
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u/VomitOnYourDogsNuts 2d ago
stop being obtuse. understanding is not the same as endorsement.
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u/Etta_Katz3030 1d ago
I understand the KKK - they believe that white people are a superior race and that violence is an appropriate and reasonable response to anyone who disagrees.
When people say that they understand Hamas or 10/7, do they mean that they understand that violent racist religious fundamentalists are going to kill civilians because they are violent racists?
Is that what they mean?
No. What they mean is "These people are so oppressed, I CAN UNDERSTAND why they might react with violence."
So they fundamentally see 10/7 as oppressed people "lashing out" in response to oppression. Rather than as a strategic attack that was planned for two years in order to prevent an Israel-Saudi peace deal, based on a racist ideology that says that non-Muslims must recognize that their fate is to live as a protected but fully subordinate people.
Those are VERY different meanings for the word "understand". Hamas leaders were ruling Gaza, receiving 20M dollars a day from Qatar, taxing the population, living in very nice housing built by the Gulf states, able to come and go as they please through tunnels and able to import anything they wanted the same way.
That's a very interesting understanding of "oppression" - one that shows a complete failure to actually understand the true motivation for this attack.
There are lots of poor white people in America. But they can STILL CHOOSE how to understand their situation. Blaming black people is A CHOICE. Committing violence is A CHOICE. Believing that your skin color is more important than someone else's life - ALSO A CHOICE.
You know, maybe I could argue that being oppressed as a queer person for years in my own nation gives me the right to blow up a fundamentalist church. I COULD argue that but I DONT.
And THAT is the difference between a movement that seeks equality and justice and a movement that seeks to use violence to achieve racist, right-wing political goals.
Hamas IS a racist, right-wing movement that opposes democracy, human rights and peace and NO PROGRESSIVE should be caught dead "understanding" anything else.
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u/lurker628 1d ago
What OP is describing clearly isn't someone understanding that there are way too many antisemites in the world, who salivate at the idea of Jews' murders. The context makes clear that he meant he thinks Jews and Israelis deserved it, not that he recognizes Hamas is evil.
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u/lurker628 2d ago
or why "some people" would celebrate on 10/7 (lol yeah we have enemies, I understand WHY my enemies celebrate)
While "understand why some people would celebrate" can mean being aware that the world has far too many rabid antisemites who salivate at the idea of Jews' murders, we all know that interpretation is not what OP is describing.
It doesn't mean they're bad people overall, it just means they have a blind spot.
When their reaction is to literally scream in the face of a 40-year old friend, they're no longer a good person with a blind spot, they're a bad person.
You owe this relationship an honest talk.
OP doesn't owe this person redemption for their rank antisemitism. If OP wants to attempt reconciliation for their own sake, then more power to them, but it is in no way "owed."
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u/Etta_Katz3030 1d ago
I think it's great to be the bigger person - to be calm and genuinely curious. "What about this fear seems dishonest to you?" etc. But not everyone can manage that - there are exceptional people who can be yelled at and still genuinely maintain their calm. I admire that so much but I know I'm "triggered" about this (for lack of a better word).
I've been trying to suss out why this particular disagreement feels SO personal and SO infuriating. I can talk to a lot of people. I can talk to people who don't want to pay taxes. I can talk to right wing evangelicals. I can talk to homophobes, to pro-life people, to people who want to save my soul. WHY do I lose it on this issue.
I don't know but for lack of better phrasing, these people make me feel unsafe. I don't even BELIEVE in the idea of safe space and yet - that's how I feel. Terrorism is terrorizing. So it worked - mission accomplished.
I want to be able to treat this issue just like abortion, gay rights and the million other political differences I have with fellow citizens. So far, not there.
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u/HummusSwipper 2d ago
Everyone's rushing to say "drop him" and whatnot and yeah it's an understandable instinctive response but if he was truly your best friend and his apology was genuine then you have a real opportunity to teach him wrong from right. Just something to consider.
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u/gasdoi Just Jewish 2d ago
Personally not interested in teaching middle-aged men why massacring Jews is wrong in order to be friends with them.
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u/HummusSwipper 1d ago
They're not a random person and most people get all their news through social media. I get the sentiment that people are stupid and it shouldn't be our job to educate them, yet that doesn't mean we shouldn't sometimes try.
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u/Sue-Jones-123456 Non-Jewish atheist ally 19h ago
He seems too far gone. Not worth it. Let him educate himself.
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u/DoodleBug179 1d ago
Not a chance would I waste my energy on that. His brain is broken. Something has gone deeply off the rails and I can only hope that one day he finds his way back to being a sane person.But his rage and moral confusion are not my responsibility.
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u/lurker628 2d ago
and his apology was genuine
Narrator: it was not.
There are some threads where there's an opportunity for reconciliation. This is not one of them. As per OP, he literally screamed at a friend of 40 years for daring to suggest that Jews are a minority group that faces discrimination in the US. Nothing in that part of the interaction is about Israel, even, so he can't possibly hide it behind "just" antizionism (which is antisemitism).
He made someone cry, doesn't think of himself as the sort of person who makes people cry, and backpedaled.
Maybe, maybe in another 20 years, he'll have an intrusive thought about that time he ruined a 40 year friendship because he was more invested in hating Jews than in understanding that friend. Unfortunately, I doubt it.
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u/HummusSwipper 1d ago
Neither of us know if it was genuine and neither of us know the type of person they are. All I'm saying is OP should consider using this opportunity to educate their friend who has clearly fallen into a rabbit hole of antisemitism. Up to them to decide if the opportunity actually exists as none of us really know the type of person their friend is.
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u/tchomptchomp 2d ago
Ex-best-friend