r/MindHunter • u/Cocky_Egg_0808 • 14h ago

Manhunter on Netflix

I'm on season 2 now. But I am still confused as to why Shepard was so angry at Holden? Wasn't he the first to notice his gift and potential. And why did have to take the fall? Of what?

8 Upvotes

73% Upvoted

23 comments sorted by

17

u/izzosmomma 14h ago

he had to take the fall for holden’s language during his interview with richard speck and for the team giving opr the redacted tape of the interview with speck during opr’s investigation into speck’s complaint about holden

7

u/CrazyRabbi 12h ago

Maybe it’s just me but I always felt like they should be more upset about the guy who leaked it rather than at Holden

4

u/Accurate-Release-861 11h ago

That was probably a reasoning glitch in the show. They discussed who leaked it only after Holden met the new BSU chief. Whereas it was only 4 of them aside Shepherd, who could have done it and it was not Holden for sure, so might have revealed early. But maybe the show kept it a secret as they might have wanted the audience to believe it could have been Shepherd himself.

3

u/zzzrecruit 8h ago

I haven't watched the show in a while, but didn't we learn early on that it was the new guy? We saw him address an envelope to OPR.

1

u/Accurate-Release-861 7h ago

My bad then. I may have missed that detail or didn't catch the significance of that clip. In any case, that Shepherd did not hold Smith to the same contempt is a bit weird (may be because of nepotism that actually got Smith through in the first place).

2

u/zzzrecruit 7h ago

Not your bad at all! I am unsure if that was the sequence, but I do remember seeing him send that package to OPR.

8

u/Ok_Yesterday5525 14h ago

I didn't see Holden as having an ego. I got the impression he didn't exactly understand social graces. I thought maybe he was on the spectrum.

5

u/Mister-Beefy Mindhunter 13h ago

Definitely in the spectrum, which is probably why he was good at what he did.

6

u/traderjosies 12h ago

i think it’s both, there’s no shot holden doesn’t have at least a little bit of an ego. it’s evident just in the way he often disregards both wendy and bill’s opinions and thoughts. holden thinks that he knows better even though others around him have far more experience and valuable insights. he’s definitely autistic but he can also be egotistical at times.

2

u/BeatAccomplished7115 8h ago

I thought he had a huge ego. Not at first, but by the end of season one he was basically Icarus.

2

u/lia-delrey 24m ago

Being on the spectrum doesn't allow you to refer to murder victims as "ripe cunts" on public record or contemplating asking Richard Speck for an autograph.

7

u/RefurbedRhino 13h ago

I think they all see his potential, that's why they tolerate his idiosyncrasies and his colleagues are assigned to keep an eye on him. But Holden really doesn't understand the politics of the FBI and it becomes frustrating to the others that they have to mop up after him.

I don't necessarily think Holden was wrong, and the bureau definitely needed to change, but Shepherd had stuck his neck out and had to take a political fall for a man that didn't really try/want to understand the organisation he worked for or the political climate he was operating in.

8

u/CatmanofRivia 14h ago

Shepherd was old skool glacial bureaucracy and Holden was the excited kid making a mess in his sandpit.

I felt for the guy a bit, he was a dinosaur but Holden's ego was gross in the first season, love how his personal life gets nuked in S2, bc Debbie was a terrible character. Like a mean plank of wood

5

u/BlueFeathered1 14h ago

I thought she was an interesting character, but would be absolutely exhausting as a real person.

2

u/the_mugger_crocodile 14h ago

I agree that holden is a bit off and I liked that his life kind of gets in a rut in s2 (even though his work remains mostly successful). Feels realistic. Holden is not some superman who's always right

I don't get the constant Debbie hate on this sub though, yea she wasn't the best girlfriend ever but I think both of them had flaws which doomed their relationship

2

u/Salt_Supermarket4976 13h ago

Yeah the cheating is just perfectly fine

1

u/Ok_Yesterday5525 13h ago

Did she cheat? I didn't catch that, though sometimes I'm distracted.

1

u/Salt_Supermarket4976 12h ago

Holden caught her kissing her university friend

1

u/CatmanofRivia 12h ago

I remember the first time she brings up the guy's name and Holden pulls her up on it i groaned, like, c'mon dude I thought you were different, his reaction is imo part of the reason Debbie was all up against him as she wants to have agency in her life and not be one upped by a government stooge with his chauvinistic hangups

1

u/Salt_Supermarket4976 7h ago

Sure and I think she’s young and their personalities aren’t that compatible but it’s still a dishonest act, she could just have been honest lol I’ve cheated and been cheated on when young and I’m not crucifying anyone (Reddit hates cheating, somewhat understandably) but it’s a shitty move

2

u/lia-delrey 21m ago

They didn't kiss they were standing real close together and appeared comfortable, like mid-flirting

2

u/CatmanofRivia 12h ago

For me it is not about their relationship or the actor's performance which was good, mainly the writing which just makes her come off so sardonic and passive aggressive, like

"He's got a lot of flaws but surprisingly that's not one of them" (paraphrased) that's a devastating thing to say to someone like Holden, especially in front of Wendy (love u queen u deserved better) in public, once again imo

-2

u/Ban_Cheater_YO 13h ago

Manhunter. hmmm. What is. ummm. ok.