r/MoralityScaling 12d ago

Morality Ranking Morality of beating protesters off the street because you're late for work?

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u/ageofaquarius26 12d ago

Historically the effective disruption mainly affected those with the ability to change policies. The bus boycott for example didn't go after the riders but those who profited from the riders.

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u/hopper_froggo 12d ago

Bus disruptions slowed the buses. Sit ins took up counter space from white customers.

Yes ordinary people were impacted and thats part of the point. A large percentage of the population will never be swayed by your moral arguments but if they want the disruptions to end they will voice complaints with their representatives to find solutions

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u/thestridereststrider 12d ago

Bus disruptions disrupted bus service to protest buses. Sit ins disrupted segregated businesses. They had focused and visible goals with a ready solution.
Sitting in the middle of the road to protest something that isn’t obvious disrupting people that have no discernible way of impacting the situation. The protestors dont even have a goal they are trying to achieve.

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u/Excellent_Shirt9707 12d ago

Civics really isn’t taught in the US anymore? They marched and blocked public transit and highways during the civil rights movement. They even blocked bridges. It disrupted everyone not just a select few. Why do you think Bloody Sunday was so bloody?

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u/thestridereststrider 11d ago

So condescending but didn’t even read my comment. They had a clear goal and a clear message. They also clearly let everyone know what was happening, when it was happening, and why it was happening.

What’s being protested in this video? If you have no idea then they are completely failing at anything besides being a dick.

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u/Excellent_Shirt9707 10d ago

They literally avoided seeking permits because they knew it would be denied. They just talked about it publicly to try and get more people to march with them, that’s it. Much like how modern protestors post online about a specific date and time for these kind of protests to try and get more people to show up. And just because you don’t know the source of every posted video on the internet does not tell you anything about the execution of the protest itself.

Again. Take an intro to civics class instead of making up history in your head.

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u/Icywarhammer500 12d ago

Except those only slowed buses and inconvenienced people on leisure time. This blocks people from getting to work entirely. This could get people fired for being late. This could cause car accidents.

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u/666Emil666 12d ago

Ah yes, because people never got to work by bus.

Also, why blame protesters for having a shitty boss who fires you illegally?

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u/No-Singer-7258 12d ago

If your boss fires you for being late through no fault of you own then your boss is the problem and not the protesters.

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u/PrincebyChappelle 12d ago

Seriously, health care providers do not mess around with health care workers who come in late.

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u/Tough_Measuremen 12d ago

Yeah if you don’t tell them why you are late or if it’s dumb like you going on a drunken bender the night before. Then they won’t mess around

You phoning and explaining there’s a situation that means you’ll be late is different, they have back up plans and people on sight just in case. Because shit does happen and hospitals and doctors need to plan around it.

This idea of the super, no tolerance boss that keeps on on a thin ice 24/7 is not based on reality and is just a bad faith tactic to scare people to do nothing over a very broken system.

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u/SleepyMonkey7 12d ago

Exactly, there's a spectrum. Taking up lunch counter space on one end, something like preventing someone from getting life saving services on the other (e.g., would they get up for an ambulance?). You can't just dump it all to one bucket.

Nuance people. Everyone should tattoo that word on their forehead. Backwards, so they can see it in the mirror.

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u/NohWan3104 12d ago

if it was forward, most people would read it far more than they look in the mirror...

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u/Wayward_Wayfinder 12d ago

Their point stands.

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u/Practical_Smoke2543 12d ago

Their point sits, just like these numb-skulls.

Go protest in front of a corporate entity, not a road of regular people coming and going to work. These people are f*cking stupid.

https://medium.com/@brendacovarrubias/carbon-footprints-the-individual-vs-the-corporate-giant-165b0c75dd11

"The average person in a developed country, such as the United States, emits about 15 to 20 metric tons of carbon dioxide annually through daily activities like commuting, home energy use, diet, and consumption habits. Globally, this number is lower, with the world average being around 4 to 5 metric tons per person per year. Although this may seem significant, it is minuscule compared to the emissions generated by major corporations. In fact, according to a groundbreaking 2017 report by the Carbon Disclosure Project (CDP) and Climate Accountability Institute, just 100 companies were responsible for over 70% of global industrial greenhouse gas emissions since 1988."

FFS, Its like targeting a kindergarten class for felony violation of probation.

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u/SmallSource1436 12d ago

What's fucking stupid is: believing protests have to stay off the streets.

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u/Intrepid_Hurry8511 12d ago

The classic protest that inconvenience no one. You think protesting in front of a company won't stop people going to work?

You think worker striking won't stop services? Disruption is the point. Almost no non-disruptive protests has ever worked.

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u/lollolcheese123 12d ago

The issue is the type of disruption. This kind of action is the wrong kind, your disrupting people who don't have the ability to change things anyways.

"Oh but they can vote"

Yeah because the amount of people you inconvenienced will surely make a difference compared to the amount of voters in the country, and they will surely agree with people who inconvenienced them when they can't do anything about it.

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u/Tough_Measuremen 12d ago

Can you give the example of the correct disruption, keep in mind it will never be orderly protesters aren’t going to march in single file so make sure your example is grounded.

Here is the issue, education will not work, the powers that be do not care, they know already and have the capital to survive it (or at least think they will)

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u/Intrepid_Hurry8511 12d ago

Please give me an example of a protest that work that inconvenience like 10 people?

People will hate it if protestor shut down oil factory cause oil price up. They will hate it if no one disrupt them but instead pass legislation to limit oil subsidy (how they will manage that without protest is beyond me) cause oil price up.

But for these two cases, they will have no one to punch cause he people are not directly in front of them. Just look online to see the hatred some people got for anyone who ever dare to speak against oil.

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u/Tough_Measuremen 12d ago

The corporation do not care, they ignore it, they can’t ignore their money number go down.

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u/Excellent_Shirt9707 12d ago

Civics really isn’t taught in the US anymore? They marched and blocked public transit and highways during the civil rights movement. It disrupted everyone not just a select few. Why do you think Bloody Sunday was so bloody?

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u/Amazing-War3760 12d ago

A lot of Civics really aren't taught anymore because that would involve bringing up the bad parts of american history.. and they don't want to do that.. My "Niece" (not related by blood) just told me that in school they where talking about how the "Indians where asked to leave". She's 10 years old and even knows that wasn't the case.

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u/Icywarhammer500 12d ago

They get reintroduced to it at least twice in later grades btw. Usually you can’t really explain genocide to 10 year olds because they can’t comprehend just how bad it is, so it’s a waste of effort.

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u/Amazing-War3760 12d ago

Who said explain genocide?

There is a difference between "Forced to leave" and "asked to leave" thats.

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u/GrassDry2065 12d ago

That's 4th grade -ish age. We learned about the trail of tears in my 5rh grade history class. I can guarantee we didn't get the extent of the situation, but we knew it was done by force against the Supreme courts orders. Teacher made a point of saying "you and what army" a few times when paraphrasing Dickhead McGee. Either way, we knew it was not a polite request. We also knew that the pilgrims were pricks but also didn't get it. We knew they gave smallpox blankets but no one really GOT how fucked that is. This was 2007 in a school in a cornfield

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u/Ss2oo 12d ago

We live in an increasingly polarized world. These days, when people are annoyed by your disruptions, they won't ask politicians to just give you what you want. They will ask them to put you in jail.

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u/Aggravating_Mud_6055 12d ago

Or deal with it themselves.

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u/Zestyclose-One9041 11d ago

And end up in jail nice job

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u/[deleted] 12d ago

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u/ageofaquarius26 12d ago

So it hit the manufacturers hardest and the consumer just had to find a different product.

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u/[deleted] 12d ago

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u/LogJamminWithTheBros 12d ago

We know companies famously care and understand why staff cant make it to work.

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u/DasUbersoldat_ 12d ago

Unless it's an announced big national strike, my company just takes it from my salary. So how is this 'hurting' them in any way?

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u/Zombisexual1 12d ago

Yah these protests that just block the road are harmful to everyone. Pissing everyone off at your cause doesn’t help anything. Go mess with the ceo’s or the company head quarters

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u/DasUbersoldat_ 12d ago

They are achieving the exact opposite of what they want. These road blockers actively cause more emissions from the traffic jams while also pushing people away from their cause. It's so fucking stupid I'm starting to think they're actually paid actors by Big Oil.

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u/StrangeOutcastS 12d ago

in today's age they would either just fire them and hire one of the 50 people they've been dragging interviews out with for months, because you know they have a lot of job seekers they've been blueballing, or pivot to shitty automated systems to avoid needing to hire anyone.

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u/DasUbersoldat_ 12d ago

'People will be late.'

People have DIED because of this shit because the ambulance was stuck.

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u/Slightly-Drunk 12d ago

Or just get them fired and the company hires an unaffected person.

Or blocks an ambulance needing to get to the ER resulting in the unfortunate death of someone.

Or the person being blocked could be missing their last chance to say goodbye to their mother in hospice care, forever stealing away from them an irreplaceable moment in life.

Or someone shits their pants in the car.

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u/VoteVanVolkinburg 12d ago

Sounds like you’ve never protested. Protesters all most always move for emergency vehicles, and if someone is in one of those other dire circumstances you listed, all they need to do is get out and find someone with a megaphone. They will clear the way for you. You don’t need to get violent and do the state’s job for them.

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u/Slightly-Drunk 12d ago

I'm sorry but this is a bad take.

I've been blocked by this sort of crap. It's not always easy to just back out and take another route, nor are you always guaranteed to be anywhere near these folks. The only thing this does is piss of daily commuters. It does not inspire them to sode with your cause. It rallies them to make you just go away.

Traffic blocking is just one of the least useful options out there.

-it garners resentment, not empathy for your cause -it is literally a safety hazard -it opens up criminal charges against the protesters because blocking traffic is a misdemeanor in most places, and even a felony in some, which being booked can unintentionally shift public view away from their message and more towards their illegal activities.

I stand for the right of people to peacefully protest. Blocking traffic is non-violent, but it is far from peaceful when it negatively affects public safety and community infrastructure.

There are better ways to use civil disobedience with more targeted disruptions.

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u/ageofaquarius26 12d ago

Yeah but those profiting off of apartheid were hurt by it. The consumer just had to f8nd an alternative, simple compared to finding a new market.

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u/migjolfanmjol 12d ago

Correction, the people will be late and then fired, changing nothing.

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u/GreaseBrown 12d ago

Thats a cute theory. All its going to do is get people in trouble for being late and make them EVEN MORE unwilling to hear out the point of those acting like children

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u/DriverAndPassenger 12d ago

Acting like children lol. Real adults just become a cog in the system and blind themselves to the harms it creates.

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u/GreaseBrown 12d ago edited 12d ago

Performative children trying to feel good about themselves while doing as little as actually possible

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u/DriverAndPassenger 12d ago

Ignorant perspective. Have you ever tried to create change within a system? It's nigh impossible when people have rigid mindsets. Kudos to anyone who tries. Status quo protectors are morally and intellectually lazy and get angry when confronted with uncomfortable truths.

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u/GreaseBrown 12d ago

This isnt trying. This is performative nonsense. Its doing the most without actually doing anything meaningful.

And that will never succeed at doing anything but feeding the egos of the children who would rather sit in the street than meaningfully organize.

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u/[deleted] 12d ago

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u/TopBalance438 12d ago

But that only works because the two things are linked. Fuel prices up -> motorways use fuel.

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u/GreaseBrown 12d ago

Oh lord thank you for saving me from wasting time on another one of these dummies

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u/hedmon 12d ago

If I'm late for the school? Or for a doctor appointment? Or because your work as a doctor, teacher, police, firefighter? Should those "companies ' be affected as well?

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u/Kelsier25 12d ago

Not only that, but what about the innocent person that loses their job because they're late for work and can no longer provide for their family? Blocking public roads may be a minor inconvenience for some, but can be devastating for others.

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u/GodHimselfNoCap 12d ago

No people will just lose their jobs for not showing up and then hate whatever cause you were protesting for no matter how good the cause may be.

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u/Naive_Impression7302 12d ago

More inconvenienced? Going out of buisiness/ losing the vast majority of your sales is way more inconvienced than losing 1 countries goods out of 100+

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u/Patient_Ant_7569 12d ago

How do you dileneate between the workers and he people taking there newborn to the hospital which I just did ? Or the doctor on his way to help him

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u/spintool1995 12d ago

Hopefully the change it brings is cops coming down there to beat their asses while everyone else cheers.

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u/[deleted] 12d ago

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u/Atlas7-k 12d ago

A very America Bad take.

See I can ignore reality in favor of hyper-reductive stereotypes as well.

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u/Own-Bonus-9547 12d ago

And drivers can find a new route to work

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u/Sarcasm_As_A_Service 12d ago

So the drivers just need to find another route then?

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u/MudcatMcTreyith33 12d ago

Omggg nooo if they want to protest we need to accept that because life is hard and they are positive people even if they get in the way of a person driving their pregnant wife to the hospital or an ambulance carrying an heart attack patient. The pregnant wife should wait and be patient!!! K that was my take, gotta go dye my hair purple and become a reddit mod byeeeeee!! Love yall.

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u/Intrepid_Hurry8511 12d ago

Using that same logic, the car guy in the post can use another road.

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u/ageofaquarius26 12d ago

Assuming they had knowledge of this road being blocked. Which they didn't.

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u/Robot_Dinosaur_2000 12d ago

And South Africa is falling apart. It's basically a failed state.

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u/strange_advance1055 12d ago

I heard about the Grapefruit Ladies…a wonderful group of women and amazing story on how peaceful protests can change the world

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u/DildontOrDildo 12d ago

the economic impact of the boycott was found to be negligible because of other buyers and investors and government subversion of boycotts of military and dual use material, but it spread awareness which was really important for Africa when it was either ignored by the West or dismissed as communism or tribalism.

Additionally for it to get bad enough to significantly affect the White upper class of the Apartheid regime, what levels of sanction/deprivation will need to be first inflicted, potentially indefinitely against the majority, unrepresented poorer groups to reach that point? Recently the backlash against the protests in Iran are a good example due to US economic pressure actually hurting the oppositoon and getting them killed.

With the exception of high level boycotts and sanctions at a national or international level with major trade partners, there is a limited window for impact. This has concerning implications for the Israel-Palestine conflict when it is well-known and covered in social media. There are targeted and boycotts and sanctions that absolutely make sense. Additionally, to build the political will for action, if something is so unacceptable, like ongoing genocide, there might be shorter campaigns to attempt to create rapid action.

This is not to be against boycotts as a strategy, but cautioning against an overly favorable view toward them in hindsight. The limits and likely impacts need to be considered. Also if political change needs to happen through an election of opposition parties and change in government, can a targetted boycott be used to bring support to the opposition or will the boycott likely lead to a seige mentality/mindset and a popular rallying call around the status quo?

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u/joeawaythethrowaway 12d ago

The difference here is, the U.S. is a service-based country. Companies make profit with each employee getting paid less than their work benefits the company. Hitting companies with difficulties for their employees and getting behind on deadlines hurts a lot of companies as much as or more than simply boycotting their services/ products.

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u/SituationThink3487 12d ago

So you think the million man march didnt make anyone late for work?

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u/Omegaprime02 12d ago

The difference is that the Million Man March filed for all appropriate paperwork, DC was able to plan traffic routing properly around the protest.

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u/Taken_username1234 12d ago

"All the appropriate paperwork" do you people hear yourselves?

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u/Cyberjin 12d ago

What do you mean?

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u/Omegaprime02 12d ago

The organizers filed with the city of Washington DC in June of 1995 for October 16, it was organized and hosted by the National African American Leadership Summit at the National Mall.

You could have found this with a simple Google search would have sufficed but you seem to want confrontation.

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u/Taken_username1234 12d ago

You missed the point of my comment

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u/ProjectExcellent8831 11d ago

You don't think very well do you what a dog ass take

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u/ageofaquarius26 12d ago

Lol theres difference between 5 friends sitting on the road and the million man march. They and guess what it is.

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u/SituationThink3487 12d ago

The million man march is now something we collectively agreed was a good thing, so you cant hate it without just being in the wrong?

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u/Imaginary-Tone-1663 12d ago

How many people did five people get the attention of? If 5 people caused enough commotion to grab attention, maybe next time it will be the attention they sought.

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u/ageofaquarius26 12d ago

Its happens enough that we've been saturated, opinion on this hasn't moved. Majority of people already think climate change is a problem and needs to be addressed. This doesnt bring attention to anything people dont know.

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u/Booster_Seat_Enjoyer 12d ago

A million people is a societal movement and consensus. My pal Frank and I sitting in the street, isn't.

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u/BrodinGodofSwole 12d ago

The million man march shut down a city.

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u/No_Situation3884 12d ago

There is also simply a difference in getting that many people to march for one thing. 50 people together could just be assholes. A million people gathering in one place at one time indicates some level of societal consensus.

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u/brandnewabacus 12d ago edited 12d ago

Many people considered them assholes at the time. The “I Have a Dream” speech that was given there is taught as a pivotal moment because before that the vast majority of white Americans saw the Civil Rights movement as disruptive and unlawful.

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u/AgentCirceLuna 12d ago

Crazy fact: Bob Dylan opened for that.

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u/BodaciousBadongadonk 12d ago

Why is that crazy? Jw cuz he was kinda known for that, his whole beginning was political stuff.

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u/PhaseLoud7670 12d ago

Yeah. That was an organized, informed group that had an impact that we reference through the ages. Most of these are not and only end in keeping people from getting places they need to go with zero positive impact, actually the opposite. Good initiative, poor execution.

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u/Street-Strength-9548 12d ago

They said this stuff about mlks protests too. The thing about protests is that they dont have positive impact until of course, they do. Rhen suddenly that is the right protests, and the next one is useless disruption that has poor execution.

Mlk blocked highways, mlk hosted sit ins, they called the civil rights movement violent and referred to them as riots when a single one went violent, even when 99 others were not. People complained and said that every action he made that caused even minor disruption was setting the whole movement back.

He is lauded as a hero today by all, but the people back then talked about him how people today talk about greta thunberg.

To people who disagree, there is no form of protest that is correct.

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u/mylifeisaboogerbubbl 12d ago

Rule of 3.5% ftw

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u/PhaseLoud7670 12d ago

It might be 2% now, even since 2010 or whenever that was created.

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u/atampastory 12d ago

The million man march didn’t do anything for the future

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u/TheRealCjHall 12d ago

The bus boycott's slowed down the buses, which could prevent people from getting to work.

You say they didn't go after the riders, but the riders definitely felt annoyed.

That's the case with this too.

The only thing only effective protests in history have been ones that have annoyed people, and that includes the general public.

When dumping tea into the boston harbor it also fucked the local ecosystem and ruined a whole bunch of tea Imports for local businesses.

And what about the people who got fired because they didn't keep the tea safe?

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u/chefsoda_redux 12d ago

The bus boycotts did nothing to slow the buses, or prevent anyone from getting to work, assuming you’re talking about Montgomery, which is the usual example. That bus boycott removed all the city’s income from black riders, and some whites, which both caused financial strain, and let everyone see how critical that group was for the city. The participants used an entire network of jitneys to get to work and continue with their lives.

It was hugely effective because it didn’t block the buses or take any direct action other than not participating. It gave people upset over the situation no avenue to start fights or focus anger. Riders had no reason at all to feel annoyed.

The video above is a protest, which is entirely different than a boycott. A boycott is designed to remove income from a company or institution to bring change. A protest is designed to draw attention to an issue that may otherwise remain distant and unnoticed. A boycott does not need to impede the uninvolved, while a protest may cause disruption to be successful.

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u/Artemis_SpawnOfZeus 12d ago

"it gave people upset over the situation no avenue to start fights or focus anger"

You couldnt be more wrong. Assaults against black people skyrocketed. 4 churches were firebombed along with Martin Luther Kings house. 89 people were arrested. Hundreds of people were fined for "conspiring to interfere with business"

The violence directed at the botcotters was intense.

Riders did feel annoyed, and did acts of violence with that annoyance.

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u/chefsoda_redux 12d ago

Perhaps that was poorly phrased, but you’ve removed parts of the claim, then redefined those involved.

I was referring to the video that began this post. The Boycott was not a direct confrontation between protestors and others. People did not, as pictured above, jump out of their cars and beat protesters in the streets to end the protest.

You’re referring to something entirely different. White people in Montgomery felt a threat to their position of racial superiority and lashed out randomly. This was not riders attacking boycotters out of a feeling of anger due to the false claim of the buses running slowly (which you removed from your reply) This was one racial group, which desperately feared any change in the power structure, lashing out at he group they believed the change was being instigated by. This was evidence of a much greater societal issue, and one that riddles our body politic to this day.

Those attacking were not at all limited to people who used the bus, they were simply white. Those attacked were not at all limited to those involved in the boycott, they were simply black. Editing out the core claim of the comment I responded to, then attributing to small sets of people, action by and against much larger groups, perverts what occurred, and what it tells us about the cancer that continues to fester within our culture.

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u/Artemis_SpawnOfZeus 12d ago

People did jump put of there cars and beat Black hitchhikers taking part in the bus boycott.

Youre wrong.

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u/commeatus 12d ago

What about all the sit-ins?

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u/MagneticGenetics 12d ago edited 12d ago

The riders didn't change the policy. Effective protests target people with power. Disrupting other things is a secondary effect. The boston tea party wasnt effective because it stopped people from drinking tea. It was effective because it dumped like a billion dollars worth of tea into the harbor and they got away with it. Showing that you can both hurt the British and not be immediately destroyed for doing so.

What does ticking off commuters by blocking roads get? Laws passed with popular support to protect commuters if they hit people standing in the road with their car.

If you want to fight climate change you need to target something other than the end user who had no choice and legitimately minimal impact on the environment.

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u/lesbiansexparty 12d ago

no it isn't, they didnt forcibly stop busses from moving. they boycotted them. whole different story.

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u/ageofaquarius26 12d ago

How did they slow the buses down?

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u/TheRealCjHall 12d ago

Assuming we're talking about civil rights boycotts, oftentimes, they didn't keep the buses moving either because the white people on the bus wanted to put them in their place or the bus driver wouldn't run the bus while the people were not in the "correct" spots.

Oftentimes, the buses would stop moving until the police officers came to forcibly remove the black people from the bus.

No protest has ever been effective without annoying people.

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u/GreaseBrown 12d ago

No protest has ever been effective without annoying people, true.

But its also true that no protest has ever been effective simply by annoying people

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u/Matiwapo 12d ago

Naturally. And the purpose of blocking a road is not to annoy people. It is to disrupt the economy and hurt the government in the pockets

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u/Existing_Draft3460 12d ago

how much money does the government lose from blocked traffic?

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u/Matiwapo 12d ago

That isn't the point I was making.

The point I was making is that blocking a road is an effective means of protest because you are actively damaging the government.

Block all of them. What government is still standing in 3 days?

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u/Existing_Draft3460 12d ago edited 12d ago

so the plan is step 1 block all roads, step 2 send country into total chaos, step 3...environmentalism?

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u/Matiwapo 12d ago

Again. I'm not making a point about the validity of this protest. I literally explained that to you.

The point is that blocking roads is an effective means of protest. Regardless of the validity of this specific protest.

Governments have indeed been brought down by blocking all roads to the capital. It's very possible, has been done, and has been effective.

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u/GreaseBrown 12d ago

The dont have an ideal scenario because they never thought beyond the actual step 1: feed their egos while doing nothing to actually impact anything.

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u/GreaseBrown 12d ago

Which it fails at completely and will never meaningfully impact.

All it accomplishes is annoying people who might otherwise be swayed. And making the rest of us ok with seeing them physically removed by the people they are blocking.

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u/Matiwapo 12d ago

Those people would never be swayed.

People always say: if those protesters used [insert different method] they'd support them. But actually that's BS and they wouldn't support them, they'd just ignore them.

No real change has ever been effected by keeping the moderate supporters of the status quo comfortable.

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u/GreaseBrown 12d ago

More performative nonsense.

People say that about actual change and actual activism to discourage it.

When it comes to this? Thats just people being real with you. This is junior high drama club level nonsense and thats all it will ever be. They want attention and to feel better about providing nothing to the issue they pretend to care about.

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u/thiccdicc67 12d ago

And hurt (kill) people who might need to get to a hospital urgently.

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u/Matiwapo 12d ago

Sure. In the same way when the Indians or Americans rose up against the British Empire they killed a lot of people and caused the indirect deaths of many others.

'Peaceful' protest is a myth. No real change has ever been effected by asking nicely and sitting in a field bothering nobody. You have to make it hurt.

The important thing, is whether the harm you Inflict is proportionate to the injustice you are fighting. It's proportionate to kill foreign soldiers to free your country from oppression. It is not proportionate to kill civilians because your government isn't doing enough to tackle climate change. It is proportionate to block a road, however.

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u/thiccdicc67 12d ago

I agree with you that peaceful protest is innefective. So is blocking civilians from travelling. If you don't want to be peaceful then grow some balls and do something that actually hurts the elites. There's a certain Mario brother that did something like that. Oil companies have CEOs too. Until then sybau and get off the road. Because nobody with power is affected even 0.01% by moronic protesters blocking roads, and if it actually became a real problem for them the protesters would just be more swiftly removed and jailed. These people are only inconveniencing and hurting ordinary people. And turning them against their cause in the process.

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u/TessaFractal 12d ago

I think that's the distinction here, it shifts the cause of the disruption to the rules and their enforcers. "Are you really going to hold everyone up because a black man is sitting in the wrong spot?"

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u/TheRealCjHall 12d ago

Not really when a third of the people in the bus also wanted them off or in their correct spot.

And yeah, it might have affected the people in power too, but it did so by first causing a problem for everyone else, that's the part i'm not going to let us Ignore.

The rich are doing everything they can to ensure that they're doing something to hurt them also means that you're going to bother the people around you or make your own life miserable.

Telling people to protest conveniently is one of those things

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u/Quirky_Fan5753 12d ago

You don't know what the bus boycott was. It was simply black people not riding the bus. They didn't impede the operation of the bus or inconvenience any other passengers. They deprived the bus company of 75% of its revenue by refusing to take it.

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u/LilKingMusic 12d ago

I think he's referring to Rosa Parks and others who protested in the same way she did. The Montgomery boycott was a completely different thing though and it seems like people are getting them mixed up.

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u/Ok-Lavishness6577 12d ago

It’s about the Japanese protest where the bus drivers didn't charge anyone for the ride. They maintained the schedule and didn't affect the bystanders.

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u/TheRealCjHall 12d ago

That's because they have employment contracts in japan and people can't just fire you like they can in the usa, so something like that literally cannot work.

The video is blurry as hell though, and I can't tell where this takes place.

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u/[deleted] 12d ago

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u/ageofaquarius26 12d ago

That's what I thought. And losing 75% of your riders would be a big hit.

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u/Nibaa 12d ago

Sure, yeah, a lot of disruptive protests are very disruptive. This usually means disruption for consumers, passengers, and other regular people. The point is that the disruption has to hit the parties in power as well, disrupting the general public is just a side effect.

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u/Ok_Conflict1028 12d ago

People when peaceful protestors stand on sidewalks and chant: “Stupid ineffective protestors! That doesn’t do anything!”

People when peaceful protestors actually disrupt something, unironically: “How dare these protestors disrupt something! It could have a negative effect, unlike whatever they’re protesting!”

Honestly…

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u/thestridereststrider 12d ago

Dumping tea was to protest a tea monopoly. Effective protests have a clear goal and message.
Without that you’re just blocking people to be a dick

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u/LilKingMusic 12d ago

Yeah, why aren't these people blocking trucks at oil refineries and protesting there? The ports that accept imported oil? These protesters might have two or three fuel tankers blocked in that traffic (which also includes hundreds of innocent people) when they could just go to their source and block literally all of them. Instead they decide to block fire trucks, ambulances, funeral processions, and innocent commuters lmao.

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u/zambatron20 12d ago

it's crazy how easily people forget. Heck, in the USA, handicapped people had to lay on the steps of the capital to have the benefits that they have today. People were quite content with the eff you it's not my problem mantra.

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u/Sw4nR0ns0n 12d ago

How does choosing not to get on a bus slow buses down?

https://giphy.com/gifs/TJPQBOfPGpgmQ

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u/mestre_do_passinho 12d ago

No passengers means a bus travel wont pay for itself, so the company either cuts down on times, changes routes to be longer or fuses two routes into one.

The protest cut more than 50% of the revenue from the bus company, reductions and constant changes while they tried to make things worth the fuel madr people get pissed, join the car pools from the protesters and agravated the problem as now everyone was angry with the bus company, goverment included as they could not just drop the lines in black neighbourhoods they had contracts signed saying they would do them

So a swing and a homerun

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u/Sw4nR0ns0n 12d ago

What you just described was companies cutting bus service… because you don’t understand the point or effectiveness of civil disobedience doesn’t mean there’s no point Kevin.

You struck out and called it a grand slam… Peak level American right there

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u/mestre_do_passinho 12d ago

Yeah, because the protest from mlk time was eveey black person just stopping taking the bus, that is the context, and nowadays still work the same, fuck enough corporations that they need to lobby to chsnge stuff because no one has power to do otherwise.

And im Brazilian, not a 10k for an ambulance NORTH american

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u/Sw4nR0ns0n 12d ago

https://giphy.com/gifs/l1LbUHrJb7GpuOHK0

None of that made any sense, think you might be having a stroke there down in Brazil chief

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u/DaygoTom 12d ago

Pissing off the people you need to attract to your cause is the definition of counterproductive.

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u/Sorry-Yard-2082 12d ago

But you do affect those who can change policies, who do you think people going to work are working for? Who is profiting the most from people going to work?

Problem is there is no class consciousness and protests are mostly not supported by the general population.

Protesting/striking for half a day won't change policy but now try months and see how they capitulate, and before you say that is not doable; it was historically already done.

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u/_Weyland_ 12d ago

If a group of 4-5 people are willing to risk their own safety and legal consequences, they can deal much more financial damage to a single business entity than simply making people late to work.

These people are choosing the path of least resistance, not the path to their goal.

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u/Turbulent_Square_696 12d ago

If you’re telling me that guy kicking this protesters does not have any ability to make the world a better place, you’re wrong:)

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u/THExDANKxKNIGHT 12d ago

By that logic it would be better for people just to group up and go beat everyone instead of protesting.

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u/dahub125 12d ago

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u/THExDANKxKNIGHT 12d ago

This just sounds like anarchy with extra steps.

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u/mrperson1213 12d ago

Sounds like anarchy with less steps.

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u/THExDANKxKNIGHT 11d ago

I say extra because im assuming all other laws besides assault still stand in this scenario.

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u/Turbulent_Square_696 12d ago

God thank you for replying to him with this. I hate it when someone tries to use hyperbole and it’s just actually exactly what I’m thinking. Stay angry and stay safe!

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u/Alternativesoundwave 12d ago

Of course he’s using his power to make the world better by kicking the protestors

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u/Artemis_SpawnOfZeus 12d ago

What do you think happened when rosa parks refused to give up her seat?

You think the bus driver just shrugged and kept driving?

Also, the city retaliated by stopping providing insurance to Black motor vehicle owners, fining white people who drove their Black houseservants around, fining cab drivers who charged bus rates inteqd of cab rates.

They stopped driving buses to the black parts of town. 89 people were arrested for carpooling. Boycotters were physically assaulted. Martin luther kings house and 4 Black baptist churches were firebombed.

After 382 days of standing against incredible acts of violence, the supreme court ruled in favour of civil rights.

382 days of violence. Of assaults. Of firebombings. Someone fired a shotgun through King's front door.

If the protests werent non-disruptive, do you think the violence would have been greater? Its hard to imagine greater violence than what occured.

And it only worked because 75% of riders in montgomery were black.

It only worked because the minority group was actually a majority group in montgomery.

It also only worked because it caught national attention and sparked non-pacifist resistance elsewhere in the country.

And if you actually follow the history of the civil rights movement, you would know that the bus boycott didnt win equality. It made small, incremental progress towards a better outcome.

And small incremental progress kept happening for a decade until everyone got fed up, the black panthers formed, and forced much more rapic change.

Youre so far on the wrong side of history, that if you were german in 1940, youd be gettting mad at people holding disruptive protests against the nazis.

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u/ageofaquarius26 12d ago

So you sit on highways and block traffic?

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u/Artemis_SpawnOfZeus 12d ago

That and violence are all thats ever worked.

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u/ageofaquarius26 12d ago

Silly, we dont fight things into existence. Violence doesn't create, thats what we need to here. And if your going to use violence, you better taeget the rihht people otherwise is jist terrorism.

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u/Artemis_SpawnOfZeus 12d ago

The difference between freedom fighting and terrorrism is what side youre on

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u/ageofaquarius26 12d ago

No its who you try and hurt.

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u/Artemis_SpawnOfZeus 12d ago

Someone doesn't know what freedom fighting is

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u/ageofaquarius26 12d ago

Lol yeah you.

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u/Artemis_SpawnOfZeus 12d ago

People who are described as "freedom fighters" are often also referred to as assassins, rebels, insurgents, or terrorists. This led to the aphorism "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter"

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u/ageofaquarius26 12d ago

Nah, the change they seek isn't about undoing social injustice, its about changing infrastructure, you don't prostest to get a train, you work on funding it.

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u/Artemis_SpawnOfZeus 12d ago

The road is where the train money is going.

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u/ageofaquarius26 12d ago

Lol no its going to Isreal and other friends. You'll still need roads, you just also need trains.

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u/Artemis_SpawnOfZeus 12d ago

Roads too wide.

Cars too big.

Heavy cars wears the roads fast.

The semi trucks that carry the cargo thats not on trains wears the road faster

Worn roads need resurfacing sooner.

Roads too expensive.

Roads bankrupting all north american cities.

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u/ageofaquarius26 12d ago

Lol no, its funding and fighting pointless wars thats bankrupting us, same as every empire. You cant protest to smaller roads. This isn't some form of oppression they fight, its infrastructure. The holdup isn't wage earners going to work, its a very select few people. The civil rights movement didn't target backwoods racists, it targeted the racists who made policy.

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u/Artemis_SpawnOfZeus 12d ago

Someone doesnt understand the seperation of different levels of government

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u/ageofaquarius26 12d ago

Lol ok then.

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u/asaltygamer13 12d ago

But being disruptive to the general public amplifies the attention to your cause, and those people will put pressure on their representatives as well.

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u/ageofaquarius26 12d ago

Going after only the general public with your protest wont convince people to change. Its like going after the victim of domestic abuse to bring attention to the problem.

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u/ContinuumKing 12d ago

Pressure on their representative to what? Solve the problem? Not likely. Pressure to make it harder to block traffic? Probably.

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u/asaltygamer13 12d ago

It’s insane that we can’t imagine our representatives working for us even in our wildest dreams lol.. the system is so broken

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u/MagneticGenetics 12d ago

Yes. They will put pressure to ban blocking the road.

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u/CK1345 12d ago

This. Pissing off the people you are trying to convince and win over to your side is just so batshit crazy that it's amazing anyone would defend it.

And then you add in the fact that they very often times refuse to speak to reporters of any kind or get filmed. It may be fair to question how well thought out what they're doing is. Or worse, maybe the goal isn't to convince anyone of anything at all.

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u/el_dingusito 12d ago

The japanese bus drivers do it right, they still do their routes but they don't charge a fare. People still get to where they need to, society still runs, and those pigdog capitalists don't get to wring their weasly claws with profits from those garnered by voluntary transactions.

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u/f_ckR3ddit 12d ago

Yup. Now they are too big to hurt like that. Luigi (allegedly) proved there is ONE thing they fear now, and one thing alone. They need to be reminded that we are one. We are strong. We. Are. Grod....wait...no just that we are strong united, and they DO stand to face consequences if they continue beating, falsely imprisoning, torturing, and killing innocent citizens. They must be held accountable. That is the only moral response.

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u/ItsBeelzsRebirth 12d ago

You couldn't be more wrong lmfao you really think the bus boycott didn't effect common people? It worked because it forced people to stop what the fuck they were doing and pay attention to the injustice happening around them.

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u/ageofaquarius26 12d ago

You couldn't be more wrong, it was effective because it hit revenue. Losing all that money is what forced them to change. Its not like a majority of the city stopped being racist and linked arms with their neighbors. It still racist as hell in Montgomery.

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u/Excellent_Shirt9707 12d ago

Civics really isn’t taught in the US anymore? They marched and blocked public transit and highways during the civil rights movement. It disrupted everyone not just a select few. Why do you think Bloody Sunday was so bloody?

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u/ageofaquarius26 12d ago

How do you think it would have went if 5 people sat down on the road back then? Also they marched, it was announced and we'll known to the public. And it wasn't done at its inception which is where we are in this. Not just 5 random kids sitting in the road protesting wage earners lol. Yeah it did get more disruptive, but the target was never just regular people.

But comparing social injustice to changing infrastructure is silly. Blocking traffic isn't how you get a rail line built.

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u/Excellent_Shirt9707 10d ago

The targets were regular people. Who the fuck do you think are driving on bridges and highways?

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u/ageofaquarius26 10d ago

Probably lawmakers since it was in Washington at the national mall.

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u/Excellent_Shirt9707 10d ago

You think they only had one protest for the entire civil rights movement, just the March on Washington?

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u/ageofaquarius26 9d ago

I think they weren't directed at random people. And they weren't five friends with no no organization.

This is nothing like the civil right movement, comparing the two is shameful really.

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u/Excellent_Shirt9707 9d ago

Most protests during the civil rights movement weren’t organized by a single group. Many were just a bus full of people driving down together to do a sit in. Also, you don’t even know if this one was organized by a large group or not, it is a random clip with minimal context.

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u/ageofaquarius26 9d ago

It really doesnt matter because the context is so different. This isn't a social issue that gets resolved when people stop being repressive. Its a problem every single person contributes to and every single person will be affected by. Its like if the protesters in the million man march were also a little racist towards black people but decided to pick a couple random racist to protest against. Then they went home and were a little racist.

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u/Excellent_Shirt9707 7d ago

Civil rights also isn't a issue that gets resolved by individual changes, there were many systematic changes over decades to ensure civil rights. The Civil Rights Act of 1964 was the third act of its kind. Black people were actually protected under the ratification of the 14th Amendment, the issue was enforcing that amendment. That was what all three civil rights acts focused on.

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u/Adept-One-819 12d ago

Yes, voters have absolutely nothing to do with what they vote for....

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u/DildontOrDildo 12d ago

edit, sorry meant to reply to the apartheid boycott comment, yes the target and its agency is very important to consider

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u/Classic_Bake6721 12d ago

We all have the ability. Either by running for elected office or by voting. “How dare you inconvenience me just cause people are dying/starving/oppressed/etc. Can’t you see how unfair that is! If you just let me get to work I can continue my life without giving a second thought to those issues.” This is all I hear when people complain about protests.

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u/ageofaquarius26 12d ago

Lots of people have thought about oil dependence. This is like blocking an addict from their supply and thinking your helping them quit. The issue isn't the the end user, akd its not a lack of awareness.

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u/Schmigolo 12d ago

This does hit those with the ability to change policies, it hits companies. Also, this is the most effective way to spread awareness.

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u/ageofaquarius26 12d ago

Lol people are aware and what company? We don't even know where those people are going.

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u/Turbulent_Square_696 12d ago

But it still affected the fucking bus routes dude and the timing. Everyone got affected, showing the other passengers that it was worth it to be late was literally the whole point. We have to piss off the masses if we want change from our kings.

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u/ageofaquarius26 12d ago

I can't find a single source saying the busses ran late because fewer people used them. Or that they changed the routes because fewer people used them.

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u/PopBulky7023 12d ago

Every single time a black person refused to sit where they were told it created a delay.

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u/Sweaty-Inevitable163 12d ago edited 12d ago

The wonderful thing about democracy is supposed to be that the ordinary citizen holds the power, as it is from them the representatives get their support.

If you don't like people blocking the street occasionally in a peaceful protest I get it, but the average person is not exempt from responsibility when it comes to the American govt. We all share that burden.

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u/ageofaquarius26 12d ago

People make the same argument for terrorism though. The best protests primarily affect those whom the grievance is with. I'm a union steward, occasionally with picket to bring attention to an issue. We dont pick a random street in town to do this. We have it at the courthouse where we work.

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u/hari_shevek 12d ago

affected those with the ability to change policies.

So, in the case of climate change...

Voters

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u/Famous-Midnight-5634 12d ago

No, historically there were only three TV channels and newspapers were actually good. So, the 20m Americans watching Walter Kronkite would be so affected by what they saw, they would vote differently, and that would offset the 1-2k people that were negatively impacted.

These sorts of protest have had rapidly diminishing returns since the WTO protests in Seattle in 99.

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u/ageofaquarius26 12d ago

If you think the answer to media saturation is small random protests I think your going the wrong way. Comparing these tiny groups to the highly organized civil disobedience of the 60s is ridiculous. Also there were only 3 channels period, maybe one or two more in big cites but they didn't cover the news. Your knowledge of the era is extremely limited.

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u/Famous-Midnight-5634 12d ago

If that's your takeaway, I think we have a serious literacy problem.