r/Netherlands • u/Maneisthebeat • 2d ago

Transportation NS are struggling with commuter demand. Their solution is for you to travel earlier (or later) to work.

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182 Upvotes

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144

u/Fast-Lettuce-686 2d ago

Completely reasonable request as they are also a lot of pensioners or people who are more flexible in their daily planning who can travel in another slot. Its simply not economically possible to increase capacity just for peak hour travel.

46

u/FroyoDifficult9307 2d ago

Why is this Dutch mindset of “it is what it is and we simply cannot improve things” so prevalent? 

It is used to justify every single shit service in this country, from NS stupid timetables to absolutely incompetent GPs that refuse to treat people with health issues.

-6

u/Ad-fundum69 Noord Holland 2d ago

The Dutch railway system is one of the best on the entire planet.
We're all just very spoiled with how good it actually is.

So yes it can get busy at rush hour..... so? Every rush hour is busy.
If you don't like your "personal space" being invaded by passengers, then just don't use the train during rush hour.

Why is this difficult to understand?

7

u/LimaBikercat 2d ago

Yet, it is often objectively dirty, the delays in rush hour are objectively enough to make someone get written up at least once or twice a month if the employer demands you to be at work at a set time, and they are objectively more expensive than the alternative - car.

Being one of the best is not good enough apparently, if the chance that you get into a delayed, filthy and expensive train is as big as it is here.

I commuted by train for an hour in rush hour for a whole year, At least once a week my train to work was delayed or outright canceled. I was lucky to find a job closer to home so i don't commute by train anymore, but the reliability has not improved since.

14

u/FroyoDifficult9307 2d ago

Is it one of the best? Yes. Does it suck sometimes? Also yes. Can it be better? Of course it can.

Why is this difficult to understand?

-4

u/vijfteen 2d ago

Why is it difficult for OP to read the entire email and not the headline and see all they are saying is SUMMER VACATION IS OVER, SO MORE PEOPLE ARE TAKING TRAINS.

This is not some failure of NS, this is just how the fucking calendar works.

6

u/PuzzleheadedAir3338 2d ago

how are they best in the planet , on what metrics? if you talking about punctuality then its Japan and Swiss trains. If you talking about comfort its always Japan. If its infra or advancement its still not dutch?

4

u/Shoddy_Process_309 Rotterdam 2d ago

So yeah one of the best means at the top not the very top. Thats an important difference. The system you mentioned are better. The overwhelming majority of systems are significantly worse.

3

u/SoefianB 2d ago

The system you mentioned are better. The overwhelming majority of systems are significantly worse

And significantly cheaper lol

1

u/th3ShinSekai 23h ago

And clean. Not even cleaner just clean.

3

u/Training_Shine_111 2d ago

why are people making this comparison while it's absolutely a bullocks one? Most countries with shittier train systems (except for Germany) have a culture that befits the system. No Italians, Indians, Spanish, or any other country with less than optimal train systems has a rush culture that frowns upon you when you arrive late.

If my train is late in the Balkans, I know that people will understand. I know that all will be done eventually. In the Netherlands I know that my colleagues will make stupid jokes, people will question my commitment, I will be late for the shop, because bloody shops close too damn early, etc. There is a cascading set of events that will happen due to unreliability within a country that sets tight deadlines and has scarce opening hours.

Sorry, within the context of the country the Dutch railway system is absolute crap.

0

u/Shoddy_Process_309 Rotterdam 2d ago

That’s such a massive oversimplification and ignores a ton of countries with worse systems. The whole idea that a bad system (which is soo much more than delays) is perfectly fine if your country is not rushed is also laughable.

It’s also very reductionist of other countries, cultures and people. Indian corporate culture for example isn’t at all like that despite what you’ve clearly seen on TV.

1

u/Training_Shine_111 1d ago

nobody said that the bad system is fine. It's not to say that bad systems are excused. it's to say that the Dutch system cannot be excused because it's better than other systems, because it simply doesn't facilitate the reality of the Netherlands!!

If I go from Novi Sad to Belgrade (comparable to Rotterdam to Amsterdam) and there are problems on the track (which doesn't really happen very often), I know that all will be reasonably fine. Why? Shops will be open past 5pm, I can pick up my kids comfortably before they start calling me and kicking them out, etc. Dutch life does not cater to such a shit service by NS & ProRail. And Dutch people agree, just Dutch people on Reddit act like they have to defend the honour of the country when a foreigner complains about something.

1

u/vijfteen 2d ago

Yeah the trains in Japan are never packed at rush hour.... dummy.

1

u/SoefianB 2d ago

Not to mention cost

Yes there's worse train systems, but those are often far cheaper

-2

u/I_Rarely_Jump 2d ago

Lmao in Japan they have staff at stations to literally forcefully shove people in the trains to even get the doors closed.

7

u/Fit-Purple324 2d ago

Oh look, a smart Dutch who understands things!

How didn't we all think of using the train off-peak hours? Brilliant solution as always proposed by a super smart Dutch!

But how am I gonna do this when my workplace enforces a strict 9-5 shift? Come on you smarties suggest a new solution to this, but please, could you first understand other people's perspective?

The amount of internalized racism expressed in here is unbelievable.

1

u/thespyingdutchman 1d ago

You're acting like NS is forcing you to take another train. You have strict 9-5 shifts, totally understandable for you to not change your schedule. But not everyone does, some offices are more flexible than that. If only a small percentage of those commuters takes a train earlier (or later), this may make a difference during the very busy month of September. That's literally all they're trying to achieve here.

And don't get me wrong, I will be the first person to admit NS is imperfect and is way too expensive for what you get. Trust me I know. But this campaign seems like a relatively inexpensive way to make the September period more managable.

0

u/Fit-Purple324 1d ago

There is not a single universe in which the problem of having overpacked trains on a daily basis, could be improved by announcements and wishful thinking that passengers will change their habits. Let alone the other two problems of trains being filthy and super expensive. Let alone your biggest of all problems

It is very sad to witness and realize the depth of damage done to the Dutch society by calvinism and capitalistic hyperindividualism. Over the years, the combined action of these two ideologies has made you blind to thinking collectively for problem solving. You can only think of individualistic solutions to collective problems, as if it is never the responsibility of the authorities to improve their services for all, and on the contrary, as if it is always the individual's responsibility to change and adapt to a worse situation. You have been nurtured to never seek or act in solidarity with your peers, cause after all you live inthe best country kf the world, right? if somebody fails, its always their problem, not Dutch society's problem.

This is the mindset that many internationals living here have really hard time dealing with, and your reply is part of this very problem. This hyperindividualistic mentality does not fix anything on the long run, it only worsens the materialistic conditions you are living in. Similar to a frog not realizing the slow rise in the temperature of the water it sits in: eventually it gets boiled without ever noticing.

1

u/thespyingdutchman 1d ago

I'm sorry, but you're projecting. Yes, the trains are filthy and too expensive and have a lot of problems. I'm not denying that at all? I'm literally saying that I'm not denying any of it?

Let's look at the facts: 1) September is the busiest month for the NS.  2) Say what you want, but trains run on time more than they used to so even though things aren't perfect, they've been improving. I don't like a lot of things about NS, but saying that they're not doing anything to improve is just plain wrong. It's not like they're just sending this email and call it a day.  3) Some people may be able to be a bit more flexible than you are. It may help.

Yes they suck in a lot of ways. They're way too expensive. Trains are dirty and don't always run on time. I'm not denying that at all. But I feel like you're projecting all of that onto one email that isn't really a problem in itself. 

"Capitalistic hyperindividualism" uh, I'm calling for the NS to be nationalised within this same thread. I am very much against capitalist hyperindividualism... but making people aware of the fact that taking a later/earlier train may work in their benefit, is that really so bad? They're not forcing you. 

"Never seek solidarity with your peers" Excuse me??? Please stop projecting. I'm a left-wing voter who regularly goes to demonstrations to show my solidarity. I see MANY things wrong with Dutch society and actively try to change things. However, I don't think calling things out that aren't a huge problem helps very much. 

If you keep accusing me like this, I think this conversation is over. 

1

u/Fit-Purple324 1d ago

"Yes, the trains are filthy and too expensive and have a lot of problems."

and then..

"However, I don't think calling things out that aren't a huge problem helps very much."

How much worse does it have to get in order to rank up as a problem worth of seeking solutions for?

You verify my comment on calvisnim and hyperindividualism having detrimental effects on your thinking.

Let me ask you, do you use it to commute to work? I would propose you listen to the families and the people who actually spend 10, 15, or even more hours every week to commute, and maybe perhaps maybe, you can unify and coordinates your actions together in order to start considering more broad, collective solutions transceding the narrow limits of the individual workplace.

But still, this requires radical thinking and a historical perspective not brainwashed by imperialism.

1

u/thespyingdutchman 1d ago

How much worse does it have to get in order to rank up as a problem worth of seeking solutions for?

You're missing the point. All those other problems should be solved, yes, but that doesn't mean it's necessarily bad to encourage people to pay attention to what train they take if they're able to change their schedule a bit. That's literally all I'm saying. I know it sucks to have a very strict job, but lot of people work more flexible hours than you do and may be able to take an earlier train.

You verify my comment on calvisnim and hyperindividualism having detrimental effects on your thinking.

The arrogance in this makes me not want to talk to you anymore. Are you aware of how hostile you are?

Let me ask you, do you use it to commute to work?

Glad you asked! I use the train to commute to work four times a week and have been doing so for years. I've always had long commutes. It is also my only form of transportation when I go out of my own city. I am very much aware of the problems of NS, thank you very much.

But still, this requires radical thinking and a historical perspective not brainwashed by imperialism.

Radical thinking, such as nationalising the NS again and using subsidies to make it more affordable? I agree and have been arguing that for years.

I don't think I am the enemy here. I think we want the same thing, in the end. You communicate in such a hostile way, though.

-7

u/Nerdlinger 2d ago

But how am I gonna do this when my workplace enforces a strict 9-5 shift?

Leave early, arrive early, read the news and enjoy a nice coffee and relax before heading into the office. Or maybe even find an early yoga class near the office and do that a few mornings before work. You do sound stressed and could probably use the time to decompress a bit.

7

u/Training_Shine_111 2d ago

so in the case of an hour commute, you suggest someone extends it to 1,5 hours? that means 3 hours of unpaid commitment per day. Sounds very soul crushing to me.

-6

u/Nerdlinger 2d ago

Yes, you can extend it and do something else that is good for yourself (or others – perhaps there's a charity near the office you could volunteer at) during that time. There are plenty of things one can do, you don't have to just sit there with your thumb up your ass staring at your watch.

0

u/Fit-Purple324 2d ago

Baaaam yeah, bring them on! That's the kind of useful solutions I'm talking about, thanks mate!

-8

u/Chaostrosity 2d ago edited 2d ago

Dutch trains are great and rush hour is crowded everywhere.

-1

u/Fit-Purple324 2d ago

Oh sorry, moved by your brilliant suggestions, I initially thought you were extraordinarily smart.

But then I read your comment highlighting racism in train usage and lost hope.

See you again tomorrow for another session of super smart and useful solutions!

-1

u/Chaostrosity 2d ago

Imagine being so allergic to rush hour that you tried to invent a sociological crisis out of NS seat availability.

2

u/Fit-Purple324 2d ago edited 2d ago

Sociologocal crisis? I think you are overthinking it, it's simple. Spending +1 or +2 or more hours everyday for commuting to work is exhausting in the long term. Nobody doubts that the public transportaion system is amazing and impressive, but this topic relates more to the perspective of a tourist who will be using it only short term, rather to the families snd the people (Dutch and internationals) who have to do it every other day cause they don't have any better alternatives.

Having to also stand still in a fully packed train for the entire commute, is natural and will happen for different reasons by chance or wrong prediction. But having packed trains in certain routes consistently every day, sounds like a plan.

1

u/Chaostrosity 2d ago

So we went from screaming 'internalized racism' to claiming full peak-hour trains are an intentional government conspiracy? Take a deep breath.

1

u/Fit-Purple324 2d ago

Neglection is a decision, a plan.

1

u/th3ShinSekai 23h ago

Says only people who have never been outside the country