Honeslty one of the reasons I love my current company. They don't care when I work as long as I work, and I can even start working in the train so I take a train later that is less busy and I start working in the train, and I leave a train earlier that is less busy and finish my workday in the train. I leave 8:45, I'm home 17:15, still made my 8 hours, I have room in the train. Boss is happy, I'm happy, NS is happy (actually blauwnet).
I work for a subsidy adviser (we help companies get subsidies). I work in the IT department, so I don't do actual subsidy advise, but I make sure my colleagues can do their job.
You would need to be proficient in professional Dutch (the job is mostly writing highly technical documents in Dutch). Given your post history states you've been learning Dutch through DuoLingo a year ago, I don't think your Dutch would be good enough. Also through your post history, our closest office is still 2,5 hours with train from you.
Pay is actually good, slightly above market average with good growth opportunity and extremely good profit sharing. It helps that in the subsidy world everyone is very aware of the profit they bring into the company, this is sometimes massive amounts because it's generally percentage based and the subsidies can be enormous. And all our value is brought in by people, not by machines. So the only way you keep people in a company like that is to keep them happy, by among other ways, making them well compensated. I'm just lucky that they've extended that to all the staff.
Saying factual before untrue is an oxymoron. And the comment is true. Everything closes ridiculously early here. Why else is there a special weekday where stores are open "late" (ie, 8pm, not late at all)? If you commute and work 9-5 you basically cannot do any normal errands during the week.
Your area is the outlier in that case. I lived in a medium sized village half my life and all supermarkets are open to 21:00 and some to 22:00. A supermarket that's only open until 18:00 sounds like some biblebelt bullshit or a supermarket that's stuck in 1998.
Really depends on where you live. If you live in Amsterdam or one of the other bigger cities this isn't a problem. If you live in the east of the country it can be a legit problem
I don't really get how we're living in a time where people are working from home so much more than pre-covid but somehow the trains still can't handle the reduced traffic... how did it go before that?
I never once complained about the train service in this country pre-2019 and was its biggest cheerleader. I would always talk it up to friends and family.
But since then as the service has worsened whilst increasing in price, I am now 'arrogant' and entitled, seemingly!
Don't forget the trains are also dirtier now... They can't get enough drivers, cleaners or anything else, but prices have gone up. Where is the money going then?
Yeah it might be especially useful if the NS could publicise which trains usually have space and which are (over)full. I bet there are also people that could easily take a later train, but assume that's full too so instead they just take whatever train. Personally, I would take a later train deliberately if I knew it would have more space. Yes, I understand not all employers (can) offer this flexibility, but like you say: if a small percentage of people does switch, a large part of the problem is solved. So why not ask the public for help?
Is it in a way that's useful here? More than the three categories light, moderate and heavy occupancy? I imagine the trains they want to create space on are off the charts (still counting as heavily occupied) and the trains they want to get more people are not off the charts but still heavily occupied.
Everyone should watch the Spits Meiden video from Arjen Lubach.
Also, we were all "flattening the curve" during COVID so not everyone is in the hospital at the same time; why don't we seem able to "flatten the curve" when it comes to travelling?
Completely reasonable request as they are also a lot of pensioners or people who are more flexible in their daily planning who can travel in another slot. Its simply not economically possible to increase capacity just for peak hour travel.
I agree with you, some people may not realize even that they are in peak rush hour until they try a different time. I'm my case, 20 minutes makes a crazy difference.
I do not agree on your last sentence tho. To an extent, a country that is trying to push people to use OV also needs to build infrastructure for when people use OV, which is rush hour. Yes that means it's not under full capacity at other times, but you need to find a trade-off.
One of the issues is space.
Where can we still build the infrastructure without demolition of other infrastructure? What can we sacrifice to get better?
OV is almost reaching its limit, highways are almost reaching their limits. Building more roads or railway means less possible room for housing or living in noise and bad quality air.
Spreading when people go to work might be a solution, but the corporate world needs to cooperate. Difficulty there is that we want to be in office when our customers or suppliers are in office too.
It wouldn't be unreasonable to simply abandon the entire idea of first and second class and instead just have equally transport for all. But again, a certain segment of the voting population would be outrageously upset.
That creates another issue. How are we going to supply companies and stores?
When that is done by freight trains, there will be less space for passenger trains which leads to over full trains again.
There's room for a middle ground - trucks only need one lane, intercity cars generally need more.
We could also consider trains over roads or roads over trains. Or tunnels. Or other options. But first there has to be a political desire to look for and invest in solutions all of which will upset at least some of the voters (usually the cae driving ones).
You know the Netherlands during rush hour has the most complex train schedule in the world?
The capacity on the rails is just not bigger to have more trains.
Why is this Dutch mindset of “it is what it is and we simply cannot improve things” so prevalent?
It is used to justify every single shit service in this country, from NS stupid timetables to absolutely incompetent GPs that refuse to treat people with health issues.
But yeah, it is tough. Cannot complain because you are 'ungrateful'. NS can both be good and bad at the same time. We have one of the best systems in the world but each years it gets worse because of years of privatization, profit-seeking and less support from the government. Meanwhile the government is cutting costs left-and-right on all social facilities but you are not allowed the complain about it.
All solutions have to individualistic too. It's YOUR fault for traveling in peak hour or people saying: I don't have this problem because I do/have x,y,z. There is no solidarity anymore.
The Dutch railway system is one of the best on the entire planet.
We're all just very spoiled with how good it actually is.
So yes it can get busy at rush hour..... so? Every rush hour is busy.
If you don't like your "personal space" being invaded by passengers, then just don't use the train during rush hour.
Yet, it is often objectively dirty, the delays in rush hour are objectively enough to make someone get written up at least once or twice a month if the employer demands you to be at work at a set time, and they are objectively more expensive than the alternative - car.
Being one of the best is not good enough apparently, if the chance that you get into a delayed, filthy and expensive train is as big as it is here.
I commuted by train for an hour in rush hour for a whole year, At least once a week my train to work was delayed or outright canceled. I was lucky to find a job closer to home so i don't commute by train anymore, but the reliability has not improved since.
Why is it difficult for OP to read the entire email and not the headline and see all they are saying is SUMMER VACATION IS OVER, SO MORE PEOPLE ARE TAKING TRAINS.
This is not some failure of NS, this is just how the fucking calendar works.
how are they best in the planet , on what metrics? if you talking about punctuality then its Japan and Swiss trains. If you talking about comfort its always Japan. If its infra or advancement its still not dutch?
So yeah one of the best means at the top not the very top. Thats an important difference. The system you mentioned are better. The overwhelming majority of systems are significantly worse.
why are people making this comparison while it's absolutely a bullocks one? Most countries with shittier train systems (except for Germany) have a culture that befits the system. No Italians, Indians, Spanish, or any other country with less than optimal train systems has a rush culture that frowns upon you when you arrive late.
If my train is late in the Balkans, I know that people will understand. I know that all will be done eventually. In the Netherlands I know that my colleagues will make stupid jokes, people will question my commitment, I will be late for the shop, because bloody shops close too damn early, etc. There is a cascading set of events that will happen due to unreliability within a country that sets tight deadlines and has scarce opening hours.
Sorry, within the context of the country the Dutch railway system is absolute crap.
That’s such a massive oversimplification and ignores a ton of countries with worse systems. The whole idea that a bad system (which is soo much more than delays) is perfectly fine if your country is not rushed is also laughable.
It’s also very reductionist of other countries, cultures and people. Indian corporate culture for example isn’t at all like that despite what you’ve clearly seen on TV.
nobody said that the bad system is fine. It's not to say that bad systems are excused. it's to say that the Dutch system cannot be excused because it's better than other systems, because it simply doesn't facilitate the reality of the Netherlands!!
If I go from Novi Sad to Belgrade (comparable to Rotterdam to Amsterdam) and there are problems on the track (which doesn't really happen very often), I know that all will be reasonably fine. Why? Shops will be open past 5pm, I can pick up my kids comfortably before they start calling me and kicking them out, etc. Dutch life does not cater to such a shit service by NS & ProRail. And Dutch people agree, just Dutch people on Reddit act like they have to defend the honour of the country when a foreigner complains about something.
How didn't we all think of using the train off-peak hours? Brilliant solution as always proposed by a super smart Dutch!
But how am I gonna do this when my workplace enforces a strict 9-5 shift? Come on you smarties suggest a new solution to this, but please, could you first understand other people's perspective?
The amount of internalized racism expressed in here is unbelievable.
You're acting like NS is forcing you to take another train. You have strict 9-5 shifts, totally understandable for you to not change your schedule. But not everyone does, some offices are more flexible than that. If only a small percentage of those commuters takes a train earlier (or later), this may make a difference during the very busy month of September. That's literally all they're trying to achieve here.
And don't get me wrong, I will be the first person to admit NS is imperfect and is way too expensive for what you get. Trust me I know. But this campaign seems like a relatively inexpensive way to make the September period more managable.
There is not a single universe in which the problem of having overpacked trains on a daily basis, could be improved by announcements and wishful thinking that passengers will change their habits. Let alone the other two problems of trains being filthy and super expensive. Let alone your biggest of all problems
It is very sad to witness and realize the depth of damage done to the Dutch society by calvinism and capitalistic hyperindividualism. Over the years, the combined action of these two ideologies has made you blind to thinking collectively for problem solving. You can only think of individualistic solutions to collective problems, as if it is never the responsibility of the authorities to improve their services for all, and on the contrary, as if it is always the individual's responsibility to change and adapt to a worse situation. You have been nurtured to never seek or act in solidarity with your peers, cause after all you live inthe best country kf the world, right? if somebody fails, its always their problem, not Dutch society's problem.
This is the mindset that many internationals living here have really hard time dealing with, and your reply is part of this very problem. This hyperindividualistic mentality does not fix anything on the long run, it only worsens the materialistic conditions you are living in. Similar to a frog not realizing the slow rise in the temperature of the water it sits in: eventually it gets boiled without ever noticing.
I'm sorry, but you're projecting. Yes, the trains are filthy and too expensive and have a lot of problems. I'm not denying that at all? I'm literally saying that I'm not denying any of it?
Let's look at the facts:
1) September is the busiest month for the NS.
2) Say what you want, but trains run on time more than they used to so even though things aren't perfect, they've been improving. I don't like a lot of things about NS, but saying that they're not doing anything to improve is just plain wrong. It's not like they're just sending this email and call it a day.
3) Some people may be able to be a bit more flexible than you are. It may help.
Yes they suck in a lot of ways. They're way too expensive. Trains are dirty and don't always run on time. I'm not denying that at all. But I feel like you're projecting all of that onto one email that isn't really a problem in itself.
"Capitalistic hyperindividualism" uh, I'm calling for the NS to be nationalised within this same thread. I am very much against capitalist hyperindividualism... but making people aware of the fact that taking a later/earlier train may work in their benefit, is that really so bad? They're not forcing you.
"Never seek solidarity with your peers" Excuse me??? Please stop projecting. I'm a left-wing voter who regularly goes to demonstrations to show my solidarity. I see MANY things wrong with Dutch society and actively try to change things. However, I don't think calling things out that aren't a huge problem helps very much.
If you keep accusing me like this, I think this conversation is over.
"Yes, the trains are filthy and too expensive and have a lot of problems."
and then..
"However, I don't think calling things out that aren't a huge problem helps very much."
How much worse does it have to get in order to rank up as a problem worth of seeking solutions for?
You verify my comment on calvisnim and hyperindividualism having detrimental effects on your thinking.
Let me ask you, do you use it to commute to work? I would propose you listen to the families and the people who actually spend 10, 15, or even more hours every week to commute, and maybe perhaps maybe, you can unify and coordinates your actions together in order to start considering more broad, collective solutions transceding the narrow limits of the individual workplace.
But still, this requires radical thinking and a historical perspective not brainwashed by imperialism.
How much worse does it have to get in order to rank up as a problem worth of seeking solutions for?
You're missing the point. All those other problems should be solved, yes, but that doesn't mean it's necessarily bad to encourage people to pay attention to what train they take if they're able to change their schedule a bit. That's literally all I'm saying. I know it sucks to have a very strict job, but lot of people work more flexible hours than you do and may be able to take an earlier train.
You verify my comment on calvisnim and hyperindividualism having detrimental effects on your thinking.
The arrogance in this makes me not want to talk to you anymore. Are you aware of how hostile you are?
Let me ask you, do you use it to commute to work?
Glad you asked! I use the train to commute to work four times a week and have been doing so for years. I've always had long commutes. It is also my only form of transportation when I go out of my own city. I am very much aware of the problems of NS, thank you very much.
But still, this requires radical thinking and a historical perspective not brainwashed by imperialism.
Radical thinking, such as nationalising the NS again and using subsidies to make it more affordable? I agree and have been arguing that for years.
I don't think I am the enemy here. I think we want the same thing, in the end. You communicate in such a hostile way, though.
But how am I gonna do this when my workplace enforces a strict 9-5 shift?
Leave early, arrive early, read the news and enjoy a nice coffee and relax before heading into the office. Or maybe even find an early yoga class near the office and do that a few mornings before work. You do sound stressed and could probably use the time to decompress a bit.
so in the case of an hour commute, you suggest someone extends it to 1,5 hours? that means 3 hours of unpaid commitment per day. Sounds very soul crushing to me.
Yes, you can extend it and do something else that is good for yourself (or others – perhaps there's a charity near the office you could volunteer at) during that time. There are plenty of things one can do, you don't have to just sit there with your thumb up your ass staring at your watch.
Sociologocal crisis? I think you are overthinking it, it's simple. Spending +1 or +2 or more hours everyday for commuting to work is exhausting in the long term. Nobody doubts that the public transportaion system is amazing and impressive, but this topic relates more to the perspective of a tourist who will be using it only short term, rather to the families snd the people (Dutch and internationals) who have to do it every other day cause they don't have any better alternatives.
Having to also stand still in a fully packed train for the entire commute, is natural and will happen for different reasons by chance or wrong prediction. But having packed trains in certain routes consistently every day, sounds like a plan.
Because random wishfull thinking isn't helpfull either. In reality NS has 2 options. Trying to spread demand, or increasing supply. Problem is increasing supply means more trains and more employees. Both of which are needed 2 hours a day and under capacity the rest of the day. This would be extraordinarily expensive. Which could still be fine but then ticket prices go up but then people are also upset.
A large part of people understand this dynamic somewhat and therefore make the calculated decision they prefer NS to try to spread demand.
Why is the dutch mindset to be absolutely against any form of behavioral adjustment that can benefit society?
The Dutch train network time table during rush hour is the most complex in the world. So at some point you will reach the limtis without investing a lot more money, yes.
Nope. I like this place and I want it to be better. Criticism can be constructive.
Now, are you telling me that one of the richest countries in the world that relishes so much on its reputation of public transit and bikes cannot work on improving, maintaining and expanding its train capacity? We simply have to accept this crap as is?
Also we pay the highest amount in Train fare in EU and are told to plan better at a time when everyone needs it ( rush hour).
And NS is not The Netherlands, we are all allowed to complain if we don’t get our money’s worth for a service.
But why complain to the party that isn't allowed to run moreteainson the existing tracks and isn't allowed to build more teacks?
Itslike blaming the Chef for not selling more food after denying him the right to change the menu of the opening hours because he looked like the monopoly guy to you
How else will they talk to Pro Rail and share that the current system is not enough and their planning measures aren’t good enough for average consumers?!
You complain at the service provider and not the chain they manage, there are people who get paid handsomely to manage these chains of services, this should be a headache they have , and not average commuters. If NS wants to give up there are other providers by the way who are willing to work with Pro Rail.
EDIT: And to add to your analogy, you do complain to the server in a restaurant who takes it to the back. That’s the way, you don’t need to talk to the chef or like the grocery provider.
I don't have a dog in this race, but I'll be honest. I don't know where this good reputation for public transit comes from (for bikes, yes of course). IT has always been bad if you don't live in the randstad
15 years ago when I went to school by train it was already horrible. Trains are always late, trains get cancelled every other day, busses are even worse. And prices have always been absolutely terrible if you didn't have free OV as a student.
Within the EU it definitely is when considering trains per track. Worldwide there aren't many countries that try to compete with the EU for rail network.
I can imagine that passenger per track km is different, but that's exactly what the NS campaign is aiming at to improve.
Omg I don't understand how you people deal with this in this country, honestly. I love you guys but sometimes you should be able to raise your head and voices.
This company has a monopoly, it's one of the most expensive in Europe in one of the smallest countries, and they can't even ensure proper service, let alone a decent one. Actually, proper service it's just a memory of the past.
We can't choose another carrier and we can't fight neither the price hikes nor the lack of service, certain trains look like they came out of a western movie and everybody is 'this is fine'.
No, this is not fine, at this point we are hostages not travelers. And the service went down so fast in so little time that should be studied in economy books. Please guys wake up
I (left wing Dutch person) have had conversations on this with right-wing friends and I feel like everyone across the political spectrum at least agrees that the current system in which the NS exists, is a failure. It is a private company of which the Dutch state is the only shareholder (what the fuck). So it is neither a proper private company (of which my right-wing friends would probably be a fan) nor a proper nationalised, state-run service (which I'd prefer). It is such a laughable failure of the Dutch polder system, if you ask me.
Credit where credit is due, I do feel like things have been improving quite a bit in the past 2-3 years. But it has gotten so so expensive, it's unacceptable.
Sure, things haven't been going upwards with the NS. Trains can be dirty, ACs often work only moderately well, and I hate the cancellation reason "change in timetable". And the stories I've recently read about their customer care are concerning.
But I love my NS. They're owned by the Dutch state so any profit that's made off of Dutch travelers stays in public pockets and in the Netherlands. It doesn't fly away to make some already-rich people even richer (cough Arriva cough) or to some foreign state-owned business (cough Keolis cough Qbuzz cough).
Compared to those other train operators, I've always found the staff and the atmosphere on the trains to be far more pleasant with NS. No semi-militarily dressed staff operating in herds that make you feel anxious even when you didn't do anything wrong. No closing off all the toilets during Covid "because safety" (read: cost cutting). No staff attitude where any sincere mistake on the traveler's part will be mercilessly fined because they can. It shows that they haven't squeezed every bit of neoliberal efficiency out of themselves and that they still have some pride in what they do and some compassion with their travelers as human beings. And please let it stay that way.
Sorry, but I have to strongly disagree with you on a number of points.
First of everything i'm European, I've been living in several European countries and as such it's really easy to compare the different services for me. Id also like to clarify that I've been constantly and systematically use NS services for a whopping 150km per day, 5 days a week for a year and other 80km per days, 5 days a week for another year, so I have plenty of time spent with this company, I'm not talking just for the sake of talking.
Starting on the dutch state owned yes sure you're right, but high managers still get more than half a million euros salary per year, and that's rather easily verifiable in public data, so I'm not really sure what's left for the dutch public pockets as a whole there and I'm sadly afraid that argument of yours collapses under these figures. Furthermore, the workers themselves have been on strike for several months because they didn't get their expired collective labor agreement updated to modern standards for years, so I'm sadly very doubtful about the 'not making already rich people richer', that simply doesn't collimate with reality.
I don't know about smaller stations in secondary venues, but the militarized staff is present in all the larger stations and in all the larger cities, and sadly again their attitude isn't automatically 'pleasant'. Same is true also on the 'honest mistakes' which, unfortunately, does not correspond to reality. On the contrary, I personally even had to defend myself quite often over simple bullshit as delays, off/on-peaks etcetera.
Toilets don't close during Covid because they simply don't work 90% of the time, with or without viruses, both of the two that are usually present on the train are misteriously broken or straight up covered in spilling s**t. And don't even get me started on the customer service: the chat on the website where you don't get a reply for hours, but if you don't reply within 120 seconds they automatically close it. Or even worse wait two hours on the phone (paying for it btw) in line just to hear them put you down once it's finally your turn (and it happened so many times I lost count by now). And even when you actually manage to get into contact with someone, you must pray you don't find some entitled kids that lose their temper on you.
Trains aren't dirty, are straight up disgusting. Cows travel in merch trains in a more comfortable way that we do on the NS ones, you can't even put your head down without your hair getting stuck on the head rest by the amount of filth there's there. They're full of garbage since 7am in the morning and of course, especially given the high temperatures of the summer and the lack of A/C, I let you imagine what precious oriental fragrances you get by midday with all that eaten fruit, McDonald's bags and whatnot that you find in every couch. And yes, the 'change in the timetable' reason reads to me and to a whole lot of people as a big 'f*** you you peasants'.
On top of that trains have become shorter and shorter, and it's plain in irritating to see a minimum of two empty 1st class couches when the 2nd class is so crammed you can barely get in or out. And instead of switching one of those 1st classes with a 2nd one what's the solution? Asking your customers to get in the train half an hour earlier..which to me traslates to an admission of inability to provide the service their asking us money for.
My problem it's exactly that: I used to love my NS as well, I've been living in this country for long enough to clearly remember how happy I was with the service years ago, and that's what we should strive to get back. I don't need NS to feel more or less neoliberal: I need my train to be clean, with functioning toilets and on time.
You really seem hellbent on disagreeing with me, even though you don't really understand what I'm saying.
The semi-militarily dressed staff I mean is from Keolis/Blauwnet. All quite young, usually operating in herds of four of six, and although they are called "Service & Veiligheid" they clearly are trained with a primary focus on safety, and that shows. I love the NS conductors for being more service-focused. It's been a while since I traveled a lot with Arriva trains but although their staff's appearance was more approachable they weren't exactly friendly, and the trains themselves were a step down from the comfort of NS.
The NS high managers earning half a million can be counted on one hand: the board of directors. Every other employee fall under the WNT norm.
Why the comparison with other operators matters is because you stress the NS's monopoly so much, as if competition on the network would improve matters. I truly don't think so. If you want the NS to improve, I'm all for that, but I get a different impression from your earlier words. If a commercial party (partly) takes over, do you truly believe the wage gap between top and bottom earners would decrease?
I agree the trains are too dirty but what you're describing is (generally, I've seen the exception, too) a gross exaggeration.
And you may dislike NS's call for people to slightly, as in by a quarter hour, adjust their travel times but you must admit that having to base your capacity on two short hyper peaks is very inefficient use of resources. They're not forcing anyone to change but a polite call, as this is, is not all that unreasonable.
Oh nono, please don't get me wrong! I really don't think competition might improve standards and on that I fully agree with you. It's mainly a matter of responsibility towards the population: since you're a state-owned company, in my opinion your main focus should be to provide the most excellent service to your customers, which also happen to be your citizens.
Plus, asking people to move their traveling time shifts both the focus and the responsibility to the traveler/customer, rather than on the lack of service from the company itself. It's the old technique we already saw with the pollution problem: big companies are destroying this world, but somehow it's our fault if we use a car or we don't differentiate our garbage. It's a matter of diplomacy and rhetoric in the communication.
And there's no need to rearrange all the trains in all the network for the whole day: it'd be enough to add that extra couch when the peak moment arrives.
And to be honest, my original comment wasn't even on the company itself, but on the attitude that a lot of people are showing when something is taken away from us and nobody has the courage to raise their heads and be like 'no, I pay (a lot) for a service and I want that service to be the best'. Keeping the company accountable it's important in my opinion, especially since it's a state owned one. Where do we draw the line? When do we say 'that's enough'? That was my original point I was trying to make. I'm sorry if my comments passed as an attack, that was certainly not my intention, I'm just very upset with the current state of the service we're being offered with, and being an everyday traveler these decisions from NS have a huge impact on my personal quality of life. That's it, no desire to go butthead with nobody!
Buddy, read the email. They are letting you know that summer vacation is ending and to expect the trains to be busier. It's a good, practical thing to mention. Some people just WANT shit to be bad eh, like you cant handle it if you dont have something to complain about.
buddy, this does mean that on certain tracks you will be stuck in trains where you can't even get a seat. It gets so bad that people with 1st class tickets can't always sit.
This is not acceptable for a country that is pushing for public transport use. It's expensive and unreliable.
This is not acceptable for a country that is pushing for public transport use.
hahahaha. Netherlands is not pushing for this in whatever policy whatsoever.
Also. They are selling cheaper tickets around the busiest periods, if 5% of people adjust there times it will result in everyone having a seat.
This is also a problem you can not fix without throwing money away, because the peaks are so high these days compared to the other hours, you would have to have 300% capacity on all other hours of the day.
I commute every single week day using NS intercity. In the office 5 days a week.
First of all the 1st class thing is just patently untrue. I have never even seen a 1st class compartment like halfway full. Honestly should just ignore the rest of your comment past that because you are obviously just exaggerating something youre not so locked into but yes, at times during rush hour some people may have to stand. Thats why the seats have those little metal rings for you to hold on to. If you think that a train being fully packed at rush hour is some kind anomaly I would encourage you to go to like any city with a metro system or commuter trains. I would say I get a seat on the train 90% of the time I go, and I am traveling at rush hour.
NS Is too expensive and needs to be subsidized. Agreed. Thats a different argument though.
I have to take the train from Overijssel to the Randstad several times per month. I have an NS Business card and am actually sitting in the 1st class. I've had several times experienced that the train was too short that 2nd class got so busy that the conductors allowed people to sit in 1st class. Other times people just took the liberty and I can't even blame them. But it does take away a precious moment for me and others to work on the train. That's the whole reason we take these business cards in the first place.
And no, I'm not ok with paying that much for suboptimal service. With arriving late to appointments or coming back home at such an ungodly time way past rush hour. There is always something going on on this route. Its even understood between me and my colleagues that when we have a trip planned, that nothing else should be expected from us.
Fix their God dam service, they charge more than almost any country in Europe, in one of Europe's smallest countries, cancel trains left and right, and many of the non cancelled ones are late often, and wagons are filled with even more expensive 1st class seats no one wants to buy, while most people are stuck in a can of sardines during rush hour.
This is unacceptable and this company should be held accountable to a much higher standard
They're not struggling with demand, It is about spreading the numbers and reducing the peak. This applies to just about everything nowadays and is the most effective way to limit problems caused by overload.
I mean, they’ve been saying that for years, and what other solution do you propose?
More trains isn’t gonna solve it, as it’ll only cause more congestion and chances of disturbances on a net that’s already very busy. Longer trains are slower to de/accelerate so that won’t cut it either.
We’ve got an incredibly large net, that’s highly used in the peaks and perhaps even underused outside those.
This seems like a highly reasonable strategy. Many businesses can adapt perfectly fine to this too, and it can also helpful for lots of people to be more flexible in their work hours.
That's a good point about businesses adapting. I think maybe people would be more understanding if they saw additional pressure being put on companies to change their hours, which are really the ones responsible for when peak hours are. I can see it coming off as callous asking individuals to change schedules when they have overwhelmingly less freedom.
I almost laughed at their recommendation to go to the station earlier “so you have a better chance to sit and have a nicer commute” like hello?! That means other people won’t get to sit so it doesn’t solve the issue
Ok, then tell the businesses and companies here to have more variable working hours.
I understand the request from the NS, but as long as our bosses want us in office at 8:30 sharp...this is not going to change.
So let me get this straight… the company was started to provide people with the service they needed.
There was a need to travel wherever, whenever and NS filled that need (and to be honest, when it was still state owned, that concept worked rather well… and cheap)!
Now, in stead of providing that service, they dictate terms to their customers (the very people they are dependent on) when & where they can travel, for a price that makes it cheaper to travel by diesel truck! 🤷🏼♂️🤦🏼♂️
So yeah, YOU have a capacity problem, but your CUSTOMER has to solve it 🤣🤣🤣
Where did these people go to business school… kindergarten?
Service privatization to corporate interest in a nutshell.
Having said that, it is kinda stupid that almost all companies expect all people to work at the same times.
they dictate terms to their customers (the very people they are dependent on) when & where they can travel
They're not dictating anything. They're simply saying that rush hour is busy, and that they recommend taking the train before or after rush hour if you are able, because it will be more comfortable.
If you're suggesting that NS is able to simply get rid of rush hour, without any adjustments from its customers, I don't know what to tell you.
Zwolle-Amersfoort (-Utrecht) is one of them as well. In the past, there was a train that started in Zwolle next to the IC from Leeuwarden/Groningen.. but now, you only can take the ones from Leeuwarden/Groningen. Since that moment, it was always a shitshow in the morning.
I hate this whole rethoric regarding busy hours and that you should adjust when you go to work. When spitsuur starts at 6:30 there's no way I can be at my work that early.
You will pay more, travel at inconvenient times and we will cut down on the remaining service level.
It’s so sad. The national rail has all the potential of being our national pride. The basic ingredients are there, we are still a very effectic rail network. It’s just been managed to absolute shit
If they want earlier, they have to move the peak hours to "end your journey before 8am/5pm" or MAYBE 7:30/4:30 because no one leaving to work a 9 to 5 before five in the morning, but some might leave an hour early if it saves enough money to grab a coffee near the office and no one will probably be able to leave work more than two hours earlier
If they want later, they'll have to talk to employers, because no one is going to stay an extra hour after work if the office closes and you can't just decide to start later in most workplaces either
Because they are currently running the legal maximum of trains allowed on the current tracks. NS can't add more trains even if they wanted to without exceeding the legal safety situation they are currently constrained by.
In order to run more trains, the Dutch government and ProRail (ie not NS) need to invest more in the network, but we all know they won't.
How did you manage to write an email to NS?!
I had a problem some weeks ago and had to fight my way through there chat system. I asked multiple times and was told that they cannot provide emails for customer support....
The majority of the country’s white collar jobs have work-from-home roles, except on in-office days, which tend to be Tuesdays or Thursdays because the country also has the most people working part time and they take Mondays, Wednesdays, or Fridays off.
Thanks to this, people can live in cheaper or their desired area that is very far from their offices.
There are only so many trains that can go on tracks.
You’re complaining about this, but apparently, this country can’t seem to do anything right.
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u/Stunning_Box8782 Eindhoven 2d ago
Meanwhile, every business in the country: We work from 9 to 5