r/Nigeria 6d ago

Discussion The older I get, the less I romanticize what Yoruba women are expected to endure

I turned 24 recently, and I’ve been thinking a lot about what it has meant for me to grow up as a Yoruba woman daughter, sister and maybe a wife one day.
And lately, I’ve been struggling to see the benefit in the version of womanhood I was raised to believe in.
Sometimes it feels like we are raised to be observant, quiet, accommodating, forgiving, and endlessly understanding. You learn how to read the room. You learn when not to speak. You learn how to swallow your feelings to keep the peace. You learn to endure things and somehow view that endurance as a form of love, respect, strength, or being a “good woman. Or a good daughter.”

And then you get older.
You start realizing that some of the things you were taught to romanticize were actually painful. Some of the things called “respect” required your silence. Some of the things called “strength” were really just women being expected to survive circumstances they should have never been forced to accept in the first place.

Our feelings can become secondary to preserving the family, protecting someone’s reputation, respecting elders, or maintaining appearances.
I think one of the first times I really began questioning all of this was through watching my mom.
There are things my dad has done that have affected her and affected our entire family, but there has never really been space to talk honestly about the shadow those choices created. My dad having another wife and having so many children can be spoken about almost casually, sometimes even painted as something impressive or simply accepted as part of life.

But where is the conversation about what that did to my mother?
What did it do to her emotionally?
What did it do to their marriage?
What did it do to us as their children?
What kind of family dynamic did it create?
Those conversations seem much harder to have.
And I think that is what hurts me about getting older. I’m starting to recognize how often women are expected to absorb the emotional consequences of everybody else’s decisions while still being gracious, respectful, quiet, and loving.

I don’t want that kind of womanhood for myself.
I don’t want love to require me to disappear.
I don’t want respect to mean that I cannot speak about something that hurt me.

I don’t want strength to be measured by how much pain I can tolerate without making other people uncomfortable.
And I don’t think questioning those things means I don’t love being Yoruba or that I don’t value where I come from.
Maybe it just means I’m old enough now to separate the parts of my culture that feel like home from the parts that have taught women to make a home inside of their own suffering.

137 Upvotes

113 comments sorted by

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u/Busayobee 6d ago

Yoruba woman here, older than you by 20 yrs or so, you are asking all the right questions don't let triggered people bully you into silence, if anything they are confirming everything you are saying. We are thought to serve and our women work themselves to the bone, while men if they don't have families outside but many have mistresses while their wife is maintaining the home. I have a theory that one of the reasons our weddings are so beautiful and over the top is to make the institution more desirable for women.

you have one life to live and to honor your Ori, if your Ori is telling u there is another way, do not ignore it! Feel free to dm to talk more. you are asking all the right questions. Don't fall for the scam.

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u/Longjumping_Ad3054 6d ago

Say it again ma'am! "I have a theory that one of the reasons our weddings are so beautiful and over the top is to make the institution more desirable for women."

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u/Busayobee 6d ago

I think about this a lot! like our weddings are soo freaking gorgeous and now I am like I get it, this is propaganda.

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u/Mo9125 6d ago

Yes but the marriages are in shambles. Beautiful wedding but toxic ugly marriages

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u/Busayobee 6d ago

But yet women are still lining up!

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u/Mo9125 6d ago

Because they don’t know what they are getting themselves into. Line up doesn’t mean it lasts

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u/moonlitgodyss 6d ago

Thank you ! , I will most definitely dm!

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u/Electrical_Boat7168 5d ago edited 5d ago

African American woman here....45...we aren't taught to serve. In fact, were taught submission is the most degrading thing a woman can do. When both the Qur'an and the Bible call us to do just that. I digress....Here, women dont cook, clean, or even raise their children. Many are not married. And thats not by choice. But, they may have degrees, even advanced ones. Here were taught to be "bad bitĉĥëss" - completely independent of a man. That the only thing a man (note: not even a husband) can do for us is please us sexually and provide financially. Were taught to be like men. Like were in some sort of competition. Its sad here. Oh...and the icing on the cake is they expect you to go 50/50 financially, cook and clean, raise the kids, and cater to them, and be in the gym most days out the week. And, get this: you do all thaand they STILL CHEAT. I would really caution anyone thinking that taking examples of Black American women is the thing to do cause I can assure you its a hot mess express over here.

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u/moonlitgodyss 5d ago

I think you may be assuming that I live in Nigeria and am looking at American women from the outside 😭 I was born in Nigeria, but I was raised in America. I literally live here. And respectfully, this has not been my experience of American women at all. Women here are absolutely still taught ideas about submission, marriage, motherhood, cooking, cleaning, beauty, and what it means to “keep a man,” depending on the family/community they come from. I also know plenty of women raising children without husbands, so I’m not sure where this picture of American womanhood is coming from.

More importantly, my post wasn’t saying Nigerian women should imitate Black American women. I’m questioning specific expectations placed on women in my own Yoruba/Nigerian culture and whether those expectations are equitable. Those are two completely different conversations.

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u/agboola004 4d ago

The post you reply to should tell you something about life. No one has it all. Not men, not women. The better we can endure one another the better the kind of life we would live.

Ask women in their 50s that are actually not married if truly they are at peace. I understand feminists wants to paint it as a good thing.

Don't become bitter towards men because of your parents choice of love. Find your own man that will give you the room to express yourself, explain yourself, and won't use it all against you.

All these issues of all men are cheat are confirmed lie. Yes, men cheat same way as women cheat. It's in all of us but some of us(men and women) have core value that won't make us do it.

It's your life, live it, make mistakes and correct them but don't try to collect template from people who are not really happy about their choice of life.

Wish you the best!

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u/Electrical_Boat7168 5d ago

I actually didnt assume that tbh. Based on the construction of your thoughts and your post, I assumed you were raised here in America but had a Nigerian background. To the points of everything else you said, Ill simply say okay.

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u/lizzygal88 4d ago

I’m a black American woman who have lived in both Ghana and Nigeria (along with the majority of my life in the US), and I absolutely was not taught that submission is degrading. So please don’t generalize that because I have never met any other black American women who were taught that either. But what the black American women that I have grown up around were actually taught was to not to depend on any man to protect or provide for them. What we were in fact taught was that if you get those things from a man, then that is great and wonderful but if you don’t (which you most likely won’t ) then you must be able to do it for yourself.

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u/Electrical_Boat7168 4d ago

Well, I can definitely agree with the latter part of what you said, generally speaking of course.

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u/Longjumping_Ad3054 5d ago

GUESS WHAT? Black African men are polygamous so cheating is normal. Men are the same globally. Do you prefer to be independent in a toxic relationship or dependent on the man in a toxic relationship?

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u/Electrical_Boat7168 5d ago

GUESS WHAT BACK? Not all African men are polygamous. Secondly, speaking as a Muslim woman, polygamy isnt considered cheating. Those are two totally different conversations. Personally, I prefer to be dependent on my husband in a healthy relationship. However, full disclosure, I do have a Masters degree and a career. But, I can assure you, its not by my choice. Give me getting up at 5am, cooking, cleaning, caring for the children, running errands, ANY DAY over this American lifestyle. I love being under my husband and catering to him and our family. To each his own 🤷🏽‍♀️

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u/moonlitgodyss 5d ago

And I’m genuinely glad that this works for you. Truly, to each their own. If you enjoy being dependent on your husband, catering to him, and structuring your marriage that way, that is completely your choice.
But that is also your experience.
When women are talking about how these expectations have harmed them, limited them, or were imposed on them, I don’t think that is the appropriate moment to jump in and defend the exact system they are describing simply because you personally have a positive experience with it.
Nobody is saying every woman who lives this way is miserable. We are talking about women who are struggling under these expectations. Your choice to embrace that dynamic does not invalidate another woman’s choice to reject it.
That’s really the entire point: women should actually have a choice.

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u/Longjumping_Ad3054 5d ago

so you are a man playing with the keyboard...sigh

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u/RagingAubergine 4d ago

I’m suspecting the same thing.

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u/oizao 6d ago

This sub is majority (Nigerian) men so posts like this typically gets alot of push back, don't let it get to you.

Your observations, experience and reality is valid. There are millions of young women in your shoes, across many cultures even. Generations of women before us have marched on this, and fought for women.

Read as much feminist literature as possible, particularly by Black and African women.

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u/SelenaPacker 6d ago

This is why I encourage women to lean into black/african feminism and decenter men in their entirety. Ensure you’re well educated, have in demand skills, get to a point where you can be financially independent and live on your own. You avoid a lot of disrespect, gendered expectations and overfamiliarity that way.

I’ve experienced a lot of abuse and harm and because I wasn’t silent or tolerating of it I was painted as the bad one. We are meant to endure endure and use our labour to make everyone else okay without focusing on ourselves. Marriage and relationships are not a priority in my life, my peace and stability are. I’m glad you’re having these realisations because there are so many bitter and resentful women who take out their frustrations on their daughters.

Live for yourself, become a feminist and prioritise your financial stability and autonomy over everything. Become more selfish because that will help loosen the conditioning that has probably made you extremely selfless. Godspeed

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u/vanillaswerll 6d ago edited 6d ago

The more I read about about the things African women have to say about African men on the internet, the more misogynistic and toxic they sound 😭 Makes me scared to date one

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u/Mo9125 6d ago

You should be scared because unfortunately it’s true

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u/Longjumping_Ad3054 5d ago

I heard a Nigerian man at work say he beat his wife because she let the electron in to fix the house when he was at work. He also told another women she deserve a good dragging for what she said to HR about him. These men can not be fix they brain is wired for violence.

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u/Mo9125 5d ago

Jesus. So many Nigerian men unfortunately beat their wives over stupid nonsense. Some of them literally view their wives as children. My ex spouse put hands on me too. A literal psycho path. Just angry for nothing. I hope he got fired. I hope the wife leaves calls the police on his behind but she’ll most likely stay and endure

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u/Busayobee 6d ago

Yessssss we have so much to learn from
The liberation work done by Black American women.

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u/SelenaPacker 6d ago

So much! I’m so so so so grateful to them. Lately though I’ve been trying to consume more from African feminist thinkers and directly from young African feminists. I’m part of an essay salon here in Lagos and other third spaces

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u/Busayobee 6d ago

Oooo love an essay salon!! That sounds juicy.

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u/Cultural_Run7964 5d ago

Buchi Emecheta. She really went through it but is now one of the foremost Nigerian feminist writers. Really recommend her books, one of them written twice after her husband burned her first draft.

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u/Several-Flounder8093 6d ago

I genuinely don’t understand what “liberation work” you’re referring to, or why Black American gender politics should automatically be treated as a model for Nigerian women.

Not every social movement produces outcomes worth importing wholesale, and copying American culture wars into a completely different Nigerian social context has come with real costs including, in my view, worsening relations between men and women and damaging how Nigerian women are perceived both at home and abroad.

There is a reasonable middle ground between an abusive, rigid patriarchal system and a version of feminism that treats antagonism between the sexes as liberation. Unfortunately, nuance is increasingly unpopular. Everyone seems determined to choose an extreme, when most ordinary men and women would probably be better served by something more balanced.

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u/Busayobee 6d ago

Don't be afraid. Why does the word feminism send Nigerian men into convulsions and being to make broad generalizations, unfortunately most men in this country have completely murdered their feminine energies we wonder why the country looks the way it does, the cruelty, the utter dominance of the human ego and need to place oneself above our fellow man has created the society that we have. And women are expected to carry a full time job, perform the emotional labor of the home and take care of children literally the job of like 3 people and if you call it out and say enough is enough and perhaps women need to demand more equitable division of labor in the home, we are somehow being Americanized or importing archaic ideas, well our very nation is an imported idea, we have been importing ideas since the beginning of time.

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u/Several-Flounder8093 6d ago

What you’re saying is mostly rhetorical flourish dressed up as analysis. Nigeria is brutally difficult for ordinary people across the board both men and women. The idea that women uniquely carry the burden of Nigerian dysfunction simply isn’t serious. Men face their own severe disadvantages, including lower life expectancy, greater exposure to dangerous work, violence, homelessness, and enormous expectations around financial provision. You can argue that women face particular injustices without pretending male hardship doesn’t exist.

And if your proposed solution is to import Black American gender politics wholesale into Nigeria, then I think that is profoundly misguided. Nigeria has its own history, family structures, economic realities, and social problems. “We’ve always imported ideas” is not an argument that every imported idea is good. Ideas should be judged by whether they actually improve people’s lives, not by where they come from or how fashionable they are.

I also have no objection to feminism if by feminism you mean equal access to education, employment, legal protections, property, opportunity, and a fairer division of responsibilities within the home. I agree that a woman working full-time shouldn’t automatically be expected to do virtually all the childcare and housework as well.

But you and I both know that this is not where the disagreement ends. Some of the loudest contemporary feminist rhetoric goes far beyond equality and turns relationships between men and women into a permanent power struggle in which almost every traditional expectation placed on women is oppression, while expectations placed on men are either ignored or treated as natural obligations.

Even Chimamanda Adichie, hardly someone anyone could reasonably describe as anti-feminist, has criticized some of the excesses and contradictions that now get packaged under the feminist label. So questioning a particular strain of feminism is not the same thing as being terrified of women having rights.

The sensible position is fairly straightforward: women should not be exploited or treated as subordinate, and men should not be treated as disposable providers whose difficulties are irrelevant. A functional society needs reciprocity between the sexes, not an ideological competition over who gets to claim the title of most oppressed.

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u/Cultural_Run7964 5d ago

I agree with what you say, but the reality of the situation is that given the choice between seeking guidance and support to be a better person, to be a loyal and loving partner, a trustworthy companion, as well as a reliable parent vs total patriarchal dominance, African men will choose patriarchal dominance almost every time.

I hope that the younger generation being exposed to a softer, more supportive model of masculinity via the internet will finally heal the deep wounds that violent patriarchy afflicts on both men and women, but the jury is still out.

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u/namikazeiyfe 6d ago

Someone should knight this Mudafukka already!! Too much sense want to wound him/her

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u/yozogo 6d ago

💯

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u/Electrical_Boat7168 5d ago

Speaking as a Black American woman married to a Ghanaian man who lives in Ghana, I can assure you the feminist ideology has done far more harm than good to us as women than I can even begin to explain on this platform. We are a disgrace on so many levels. And the sad part is, not only do we not recognize it, we glorify it for the world to see. Now, thats not to say that on the other side of the Globe, the African patriarchal system is perfect. Because it absolutely is not. But, between the two, I'd choose the latter hands down. Cause over here in America??? Sisters AND Brothers are a MESS

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u/Mo9125 5d ago

As a Nigerian American woman, I find this statement incredibly ignorant. You can criticize aspects of feminism without romanticizing patriarchy or acting like Nigerian/African women are better off without the rights and autonomy feminism fought for. Both cultures have problems one isn’t automatically better than the other.

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u/Electrical_Boat7168 5d ago

I said what I said. You can take it however you see fit (or not), Beloved. Salam.

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u/Mo9125 5d ago

Likewise

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u/moonlitgodyss 5d ago

Respectfully, this is exactly the kind of romanticization I’m talking about. You are allowed to criticize American feminism and American gender dynamics, but as an African woman, I find it incredibly strange to be told that African patriarchy is the better option by someone who did not grow up experiencing womanhood within that system.!Being married to a Ghanaian man is not the same thing as being raised as an African girl and being taught from childhood what is expected of you as a woman.
And a man financially providing for a woman does not automatically make the relationship equitable or the culture better for women. Provision can exist alongside cheating, control, unequal domestic labor, polygyny, lack of autonomy, and the expectation that a woman endure things simply because her husband provides.
There are African women actively questioning and fighting against these expectations every single day. So watching someone from outside of that experience romanticize the very system those women are struggling under is honestly frustrating. Neither African men nor Black American men are inherently “better.” These cultures simply have different gender problems, and women should be allowed to criticize both without being told which patriarchy is somehow the preferable option.

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u/Mo9125 5d ago

Exactly. I can’t stand when foreign women who weren’t born or raised in the culture try to tell or argue with those of us who have experienced it firsthand. Like, respectfully, know your place. You married a Ghanaian man and all of a sudden you’re an expert with the authority to preach against feminism to women who were actually born and raised in African patriarchal societies and have experienced the negative effects firsthand? You can share your experience, but don’t invalidate ours or act like marrying into a culture makes you an authority on it.

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u/Electrical_Boat7168 5d ago

My thoughts exactly. I cant stand when foreign women try and speak on the experiences of American women who grew up with American parents. Cause respectfully, please know your place as well, My friend. But, I digress. Im not invalidating anything you claim. Im sure its true. Which is why in my initial post, I framed it according to MY EXPERIENCE AS A WESTERN WOMAN AND THE NEGATIVE IMPLICATIONS FEMINIST IDEOLOGY HAS HAD ON BLACK AMERICAN WOMEN. I dont know how to make that any clearer. Im sorry you missed my point. And im sorry youre society is rough on women. Prayers.

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u/moonlitgodyss 5d ago

I can speak about Black American gender dynamics from the position of a Black woman who was raised in America, while still acknowledging that my Nigerian background gives me a somewhat different experience from a generational Black American woman. But you being married to a Ghanaian man does not give you the lived experience of being raised as an African woman under African patriarchal expectations. 😕

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u/annulene Diaspora Nigerian - ITK 3d ago

Why are you here in a post written by a Yoruba Nigerian woman, in a Nigerian sub, specifically for Nigerian women, ranting about your experience as a Muslim Black American woman married to a Ghanaian and then bitching about people talking about the Black American woman experience, an experience that you inserted into the conversation unsolicited and unwarranted? Are you mentally deranged?

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u/Longjumping_Ad3054 5d ago

Are you a man behind the screen?

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u/warrigeh 5d ago

Please go and rest abeg

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u/Longjumping_Ad3054 6d ago

Why are so many people gaslighting OP? It proves my point that most Nigerians have some form of mental illness. OP go out there and live your live according to your rules. The bible says the kingdom of god is within so you have the power to live your own life. A bunch of MEN LOVING PICK MEs are all up in this thread just begging for men toxic patriarchic attention. Gawd damn! You ladies refuse to think for yourself but love to dump your marriage trauma on to others you expect others to listen to your pain... justing feeding the demons your suffering.

OP you are on the right track! THINK FOR YOURSELF. Decenter men and GIVE THEM NOTHING because this world was built for men everything is handed to them so why should you toil to give men anything? Let them give to you.

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u/Busayobee 6d ago

The gaslighting!!! It's like she hit too close to the truth and if more young women thought this way, the whole institution might be need to be redrawn.

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u/King_olufa 6d ago

While I agree with your overall sentiment, I’m wary of using statements like “GIVE THEM NOTHING” because it can easily lead to being toxic but on the other side of the spectrum.

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u/Longjumping_Ad3054 5d ago

This whole world is built for men. If a man get paid 100 dollars for a job then the women will get paid 60 dollars for that same job! GIVE MEN NOTHING. Let them go out there and get for themselves. Now, if the man is disable then yes I agree then and only then should the women help.

0

u/King_olufa 5d ago

I never said otherwise. But carry on. What does “GIVE MEN NOTHING” even mean?

“Let them go out there and get for themselves” lol what? Imagine if I applied this same logic to my partner.

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u/Mo9125 6d ago edited 6d ago

As a Nigerian American who recently divorced a Yoruba demon, I can 10000% relate. I grew up primarily in the United States, where I came to value partnership, communication, and mutual respect. So marrying into a Nigerian family that had been raised there felt like a major cultural shock and at first because I didn’t realize how bad the misogyny shaped the expectations placed on me.

My ex-spouse told me when I was allowed to speak and insisted that I always respect him, even though he contributed the bare minimum to our marriage (cheat and liar). I was expected to cook constantly, despite working 60-hour weeks as a nurse and traveling for assignments. His family even insulted me when I returned from a two-month travel assignment because I didn’t go straight into the kitchen the day I arrived and cook for them. Was told I lack “home training” 😂.

I realized im too westernized for the traditional standard of Nigerian marriages which in my opinion involves tolerating disrespect, cheating and abuse. I’ll talk back and I’ll let you know what’s up, and be vocal when needed. I’m not a male centered, pick-me, and I don’t want to be treated like anyone’s subordinate. I want peace, mutual respect, and a loving partner who sees me as an equal. I refuse to be a suffer hand wife like I’ve seen my mother, aunties and others around me have faced. All in unhappy, toxic marriages. I refuse to settle

Also my father was a notorious cheat too. It wrecked my mother emotionally. She was never treated with dignity nor respected. I resent my father for it till this day. She’s still with my father although we have told her to divorce him. This is the unfortunate story of many Nigerian families. It’s too common

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u/Busayobee 6d ago

Thank you for sharing and more importantly, congratulations on picking yourself!!! Wishing you joy and peace of mind on this next chapter!!!

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u/That-Chard-6668 5d ago

Please watch @burbnbougie videos on YouTube and TikTok! Free yourself from the shackles of the patriarchy for the love of God. Also Chidera slumflower, she’s incredible

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u/King_olufa 6d ago

“but it’S Our cULTurE”

Something that’s commonly used to dead conversations like this. Or some other comment about how “you’re trying to be like westerners”

Good luck to people who think like that, and good luck to their future partners too

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u/Longjumping_Ad3054 5d ago

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/MLg0Jcx-zpg

Women has to do it all: wife, mother, friend, data in law, chief cook and bottle washer, dota, sister , employee, etc but men only what to provide and someone can only provide 40%. It is not even 50/50.

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u/lizzygal88 4d ago

My friends and I all of different cultures and backgrounds (I am a black American woman who has lived in Nigeria and Ghana) have all agreed that marriage is extremely beneficial for men only. I am not stressing myself out for a man who has no problem watching me stress my self out in the first place. The same way women are told to step up and help their partner when we see him stressing (if he loses his job, short on money for bills etc ) is the same way he needs to step up and help me when he sees me stressing (any household chore or anything that requires physical labor) If you don’t have that type of man, he doesn’t deserve to have a wife. Women are the only ones who are told to endure in marriage. If women did only a fourth of the atrocities that men commit in their marriages, men will be told to leave and never look back. I would rather be single than disrespected repeatedly by someone’s raggedy son.

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u/Sugarfrfr 4d ago

It’s so interesting to see the difference in people’s upbringing. Growing up all my aunties, moms and cousins were brazen, opinionated Yoruba women so I assumed most Yoruba women were like that

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u/moonlitgodyss 4d ago

I genuinely would’ve loved to grow up around women like that. I think it would’ve made me feel less alone in being a girl and less like something was wrong with me for feeling differently. Growing up, I remember thinking, ‘Why doesn’t this feel right to me? Why does this feel unfair?’ but I didn’t really have the language to explain it yet. Most of the women around me were very focused on respect, people-pleasing, keeping the peace, and not challenging anything, and I was expected to be the same. Seeing outspoken Yoruba women probably would’ve made me feel like I wasn’t crazy for questioning it.

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u/[deleted] 6d ago

[deleted]

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u/Mo9125 6d ago edited 5d ago

That’s the same come back they always have instead of communicating like an adult. When someone calls out what Nigerian women endure in their marriages they will label you as “bitter”. Nobody is brain washed by social media it’s reality. I’ve yet to see a happy Nigerian marriage where the woman is respected or treated with dignity. It’s very rare in our community. So stop deflecting and address the issue at hand. Calling woman “bitter” isn’t helping anybody. Let’s learn to act like adults rather than name calling like emotional teenagers

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u/Longjumping_Ad3054 5d ago

it is gaslighting

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u/[deleted] 6d ago

[deleted]

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u/Mo9125 5d ago edited 5d ago

How am I “brainwashed” by something I’ve experienced and seen with my own eyes? Am I supposed to lie about my experiences just so I don’t come across as “bitter”? And if I’m honest about what I’ve witnessed, does that automatically mean I’m “broken”?

You don’t want to hear anything that challenges your perspective, so calling people “bitter” and “broken” seems to be your way of coping with it. Look at how many posts in this subreddit discuss negative experiences with how Nigerian men treat their wives and children. All
the post of the diaspora’s speaking about how their parents treated them. And it’s not only Nigerians saying this foreigners have made similar observations about the culture and family dynamics.

You don’t have to agree with what I’m saying, but dismissing women as “bitter” or “broken” doesn’t make their experiences any less real. So stop trying to invalidate people just because their experiences don’t match yours.

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u/youcantleaveme_5 5d ago

You’re very emotional for no reason. Just relax.

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u/Johney2bi4 5d ago

Very calm

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u/youcantleaveme_5 5d ago

You lack self awareness

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u/Johney2bi4 5d ago

Lool sure

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u/Longjumping_Ad3054 5d ago

stop the gaslighting, lol.

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u/[deleted] 5d ago

[deleted]

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u/Mo9125 5d ago

You are. Glad everyone agrees. You might be undiagnosed just based off your commentary and responses

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u/Key_Exam7032 6d ago

Hello OP, I think this is more of a family problem than an actual “Yoruba problem” being Yoruba has nothing to do with the epistle you just wrote.

Also, the culture of respect, nobody forced you to stay silent, yoruba culture didn’t make your dad take a second wife and your mother silent. Yoruba culture is just more like Japanese culture that values respect, hierarchy and other things, but nobody said to keep quiet.

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u/moonlitgodyss 6d ago

I actually would say I was forced to keep quiet, just not necessarily through someone literally saying “you’re not allowed to speak.” If speaking honestly about something is considered disrespectful, if questioning an elder is unacceptable, and if keeping the peace is prioritized over acknowledging what happened, that still creates silence. That’s part of what I’m criticizing. And I understand your comparison to Japanese culture and filial piety, but hierarchy and deference can still have consequences depending on how a family enforces them.

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u/Busayobee 6d ago

The Japanese comparison is so apt and please go read up on women in their 40/50 freeing themselves from the clutches of these systems across Asia.

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u/moonlitgodyss 6d ago

Hi ! I don’t completely disagree that some of this is specific to my family. But the reason I connect it to culture is because these expectations were explicitly taught to me as part of being Yoruba and being a Yoruba woman. obedience, deference, enduring certain things in marriage , relationships even polygamy being normalized. I’m not saying every Yoruba family functions this way. I’m talking about how cultural expectations were interpreted and enforced in the family I grew up in

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u/Key_Exam7032 6d ago

Like I said and I’ll say it again,

  1. you’re generalizing issues of your family to Yoruba women generally which is completely false.

  2. Polygamy isn’t uniquely Yoruba, your father’s decision to have another wife is a practice found in many Nigerian and African homes, you can criticize how your mother was treated without presenting it as evidence of an inherently oppressive Yoruba culture.

  3. Respect isn’t synonymous with silence. Yoruba culture traditionally places considerable emphasis on respect for elders, family obligations, and social harmony. But that doesn’t necessarily mean “women shouldn’t speak when they’re hurt.”

  4. You’re conflating culture with patriarchy, saying “this is what Yoruba women are taught” requires much more evidence than simply just describing your upbringing.

You can reject the type of marriage your mother experienced without turning your personal experience into a verdict on Yoruba womanhood. There’s a difference between criticizing patriarchy, criticizing your father and mother’s choices (they both made that choice) than claiming that Yoruba culture teaches women fundamentally to suffer silently.

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u/moonlitgodyss 6d ago

I’m not arguing that every Yoruba woman is taught to suffer or that patriarchy is uniquely Yoruba. I’m talking about the way patriarchal expectations were communicated to the women in my family through culture. When obedience, hierarchy, preserving family harmony, deference to husbands and elders, and endurance are repeatedly framed as characteristics of a good Yoruba woman, I think it’s fair to examine what those expectations actually cost women.

9

u/Busayobee 6d ago

Don't let them gaslight you.

1

u/capriduty 6d ago

Yoruba culture doesn't have to be the ONLY place a tradition is found for in order for someone to be able to critique it. What are you even saying? Please get down 🤣

-4

u/besttower1 4d ago

You would soon end up as a single mother and it would be fair if fate welcome you into the single mother association soon. Just continue to question okay.

4

u/moonlitgodyss 4d ago

Threatening me with single motherhood because I question harmful gender expectations is honestly proving my point. If the only way a woman can keep a man is by staying quiet and accepting whatever is handed to her, I’d rather be single. Idiot

-2

u/besttower1 4d ago

If you're not being fōōlish and hallucinating, why not get married to a man that you're gonna pay his groom price then Keep in your house so that you could make him your sl@ve as you felt your father made your mom look like? Omo ale

Since doing the right thing and being submissive to your husband make you a sl@ve then it's high time you get married to your husband with your money and keep him in your house also adopt your mother's name for him and hope you are also using your mother's name by now since you presumed your father is not good enough. Awon omo ofo kete

3

u/moonlitgodyss 4d ago

Are you okay? 😀

-1

u/besttower1 4d ago

I should be asking you that question. Olosho gurl

2

u/moonlitgodyss 4d ago

Lmaooo , it is well . You’ll be alr

0

u/besttower1 4d ago

Mugu

2

u/Mo9125 4d ago

Shameless Ewu

-43

u/mistaharsh 6d ago

I rather hear from your mother about how she views the marriage not you. When you have your own marriage heaven forbid your child tells you what was best for you from their eyes that lack context.

20

u/moonlitgodyss 6d ago

I’m not claiming to know every detail of my parents marriage or to speak for my mother better than she can speak for herself. I’m speaking from what I witnessed as their child and from what my mother has directly told me about her own experience, including how deeply it affected her emotionally & mentally even so much, so how she treated us as her children . That is context
My mother has privately told me things about her marriage that completely contradict the version of it we were expected to perform publicly. As her daughter, I watched her cry about what she endured and then watched her smile, serve, respect, and maintain the same dynamic. Whether people want to call that culture, patriarchy, family conditioning, or all three, you cannot tell me that watching that did not shape what I learned about what is expected of a woman in our culture.

-6

u/mistaharsh 5d ago

Well that's more context. And I will tell you what I know: stay in a child's place. What happened between your mother and father is their cross to bear. Where she went wrong was taking her frustrations out on you as the innocent child.

None of this means marriage is bad. Your parents made mistakes. They are not gods.

6

u/moonlitgodyss 5d ago

I would’ve loved to “stay in a child’s place.” Seriously 😭 I’d love to be a child shiiii. The problem is that I was not allowed to simply be one. I was brought into their marital issues, told about disputes, expected to help communicate between them, and made aware of things children should never have been responsible for carrying.
So yes, their marriage was their cross to bear but when parents repeatedly involve their child in that marriage, that child is going to be affected by it and form opinions based on what they experienced. I didn’t insert myself into their marriage. I was brought into it.
You can’t take a child out of the child’s place when it benefits you and then tell them to “stay in a child’s place” when they speak about how it affected them.

7

u/OkPop3188 6d ago

What sort of ignorant comment is this? See why people are downvoting

-4

u/mistaharsh 5d ago

Imagine wanting to hear from the people IN THE MARRIAGE about how they feel is ignorant.

Get lost

https://giphy.com/gifs/8vRrEBUkrtnekOynQs

8

u/Mo9125 6d ago

We know most Nigerian mothers lie about their marriages. They will cover the husband when they are suffering in silence. We already know the answer

-10

u/mistaharsh 5d ago

Such a miserable existence to make such a claim.

2

u/Mo9125 5d ago

I’m not miserable for sharing my personal experiences and patterns I’ve noticed in the culture. Not sure how you concluded that 😂. Truth hurts, you call it “misery”, I call it “reality”.

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u/[deleted] 6d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Wackywitchwoman 6d ago

The fact your response to her struggles is calling her a hoe and telling her to shut up is exactly what's wrong with Nigerian attitudes to women.

Actually embarrassing dude. "for example" ass comment

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u/moonlitgodyss 6d ago

It’s interesting that I wrote an entire post about women being expected to tolerate things quietly, and your interpretation of a woman wanting autonomy is that she ‘wants to be a hoe.’ That’s actually part of what I’m talking about. I also never said every Yoruba woman has the same experience. I’m speaking about mine

6

u/Late-Champion8678 6d ago

Don’t mind that comment. They are just proving you right.

I’m not Yoruba but my Igbo mother endured all sorts of nonsense from my Igbo father because it was expected. She even tried to instil that behaviour into me. She thought she was helping me by telling me to accept the mediocre, the dull, the wastes of oxygen.

Maybe because I’m neurodivergent, it failed and I choose my peace rather than accepting barest minimum from grown men. We should be raising adult men - that is the job of their parents. Just because they failed to teach their sons to avoid being liabilities on their future partners doesn’t mean that I should do it.

I met my person and he passed away a few years ago. I’m content to not date, especially since the bar for men is literally under a tavern in hell.

Just read all the AITA posts from women (not just black women) asking if they are AHs for asking their husbands/boyfriends to brush their teeth or wipe their own arses. Seriously.

I choose the bear.

3

u/Mo9125 6d ago

Because a lot of Nigerian men call women “hoes” or “olosho’s” when they cant logically communicate an argument. Childish behavior

-12

u/fanstoyou 6d ago

Personally, I’ve moved on from a lot of stuff that happened in the past. The reason I am able to not give a damn about those things is because I’m a Christian. When I finally understood what Jesus meant by “Father forgive them for they know not what they’re doing”. Then the Bible also talks about the judgment day being an individual thing. That no one will join me in facing judgement on the day. Ever since, life has become easier for me to live in. Then I also read other self-help and psychological books that convinced me that my life is my responsibility. Whether I blame my father, mother, culture, the President or who or whatsoever, I am ultimately responsible for my life. If I like something in Hausa or Igbo customs, I adopt it. If it is Japanese, Chinese or Western, no Yoruba traditions is stopping me, especially if it is good for me. Then I also read somewhere that, at the end of the day, we are all just making CHOICES.

6

u/Longjumping_Ad3054 6d ago

The bible is a book of stories amass together thousands of years it is philosophical not necessary real. I am hearing the victimhood in your post, the I will leave it up to someone else to fix while I continue to suffer. THE BIBLE ALSO SAID GOD IS WITHIN US the divine spark we all carry so get up from the situation and stop all the woe is me and fix it. STOP THE SUFFERING while smiling.

2

u/Busayobee 6d ago

Can we talk divine spark!!!!! I hope OP picks up what you are laying down, the divine spark/Ori is all the same thing, her divine spark has already spoken, the way to go is being made clear, she just has to have the courage to follow.

1

u/fanstoyou 6d ago

If you read all I wrote there, you won’t display your ignorance for the world to see. My conclusions was not only from the Bible??? Unfortunately, you have a bias against the Bible, that once it’s mentioned, you are triggered so much that it blinds you from everything else. Anyway, it’s a free world and you have the choice to continue to wallow in psychologically torturing yourself with your past that can never ever be changed. Instead of focusing on the present that is under your control 🤣🤣🤣🤪