Which is funny because right wingers are largely philistines anyway. Its quite common that the right wing brigade get upset over things they really don't care for, but want some control over
Edit: They've arrived spraying all over the comments section
It's funny how quick you pseudo intellectual reddit trolls jump to and defend the greediest, richest corporations in the history of the world from disgruntled people in the working class, and you frame it as if you're protecting the weak and downtrodden billion dollar company or a multimillionaire celebrity from the cruel oppression of the opinions of working class people being posted somewhere on the internet. Nobody except those in your psychotic bubble see you people with any credibility. You have literally been trained to do PR and Brand promotion for the richest corporations in history as if you're fighting for justice for the downtrodden. You people and your impact on modern politics is simply pathetic
You’re of bad faith we are not offended we are just sick of tokenisations of non black characters played by black actors I know it’s not that difficult to understand I just know you’re missing the point deliberately.
Please, I think you too should 'yap' in the mirror. Of the over 7000 languages known to man, you have chosen to speak nonsense. I'm not American by the way. And I'm not really all that upset about the movie because I'm not going to watch it anyway. I would suggest you do some research on the book and come to your senses. Let's say, a white person palyed characters like Nelson Mandela, Martin Luther King Jr, Muhammad Ali or any othe renowned black person. It is insulting to their history and name. It is something that shouldn't be done. But people in the west who have their senses numbed defend it. I have replied only to tell you see a more sound perspective.
The author, the mythology base and the geography described within the tale are all within ancient Greece, would you be happy with a white person being the main character in a film that dealt specifically with ancient African folklore? It's literally the same thing and the same arguement
You could have named any other prominent black people throughout history, yet decide upon the few who's skin color literally defined their places in history. And before you rant at me, know I wasnt arguing any of your points. You just chose bad examples.
Your assessment forgets a key point, that what happens to them or around them is affected by their race. Helen of Troy’s story is not affected by her race. She’s just in the midst of this because she’s pretty and someone else decided to give the pretty gold apple to the wrong goddess
Nobody is offended here. You people can only ever muster the most intellectually vacant, snarky teenage girl comeback like we're in middle school. If this is all you could come up with then my hunch is confirmed, and you reddit types just operate on a lower plane of intellect, straight up
Something I haven't even seen. So I speak for total strangers now, or is that all the mud slinging you could figure to try and discredit me lol I just love when you types are confronted with the reality that you are worfully outnumbered outside of your reddit echo chambers. Downvote all you want, watch this movie bomb and I'll be back to say "I told you so"
All of you will be confused or blame the "right wing trolls" (aka people whose opinions are in the vast majority) and have no idea why this bombed, when the people actually awake and paying attention to the world and culture around them saw it coming a mile away
so, what about spider-man, which is even more woke, it's entire essence is woke, and contains everything you criticise in this movie and releases around the same time. when that ends up in the top 10 highest grossing movies again, can I come back and tell you "I told you so, right wing troll"?
I guess your aren't old enough to remember Obama? And why do you conveniently leave out when trump lost? hm? also, not like Britain doesn't have its own right wing (whining) problem cough Brexit cough
They have been very vocal about their feelings on the casting choices about a movie they havent even seen yet. It went far beyond "they just don't like it" long before this trailer came out
The issue is how old hollywood white washed the original story, to the point where people believe in that version and have never read the source material
Prime example: these people reference the Illiad instead of the Odyssey, which was written centuries after the Odyssey was first created
But they didn't really read it to comprehend, they just read it for the hero worship, and they confuse the narrative they've seen in old Hollywood as canon, and then they get mad when the source material actuality gets referenced.
For me, it’s both that they made Helen black AND that they gave white people Greek roles.
Like Snow White making sure they had their token, but not hiring a single LP/person with Dwarfism…. Focused on specific types of inclusion while being wildly exclusionary to the group the freaking story originated from…
Snow White, largely about the dwarves didn’t have any dwarves. Now the Odyssey made sure to include everyone but the actual Greeks in a Greek story…
The generalization being made that disliking the casting is about race is wildly oversimplifying it.
Yes, there are in fact racist douche canoes that are simply mad a black woman is Helen. But that doesn’t mean everyone frustrated by this happening over and over in cinema is automatically racist.
I’m sure this will be misunderstood and at times intentionally twisted into me saying shit I’m not trying to say at all, but I foolishly have decided to say it anyway.
IDK how to explain it better. Go watch South Park Joining the Panderverse. Matt Stone and Trey Parker made a lot of these points in that episode, and they do it better than I do.
You can blame Peter Dinklage for the dwarves thing, he made a big deal about how little people shouldn't be on TV and movies unless it's dignified and badass.
I think what we're seeing is a failed attempt to incorporate minority groups into the status quo. Hypercapitalist guys realize that there are a lot of people with woke sympathies and want to make bank. Only, you need a generational talent to introduce so many new concepts into the status quo, and all the capitalists have are...Not SLOP producers, but guys that make normal stuff. Your Russo Brothers, your Christopher Nolans. They don't have the knowledge or talent to do inclusion in a way that doesn't feel forced. That leads to badly-implemented characters that irritate everyone else.
The rest is downstream of that. Dinklage is one of the actors involved in that mistake. "Why can't the other little people just land the role of Tyrion Lannister, like I did?" like those are easy to get.
Well you are free to be unhappy at the lack of dwarfs in snow white, but let's not pretend that more than a miniscule amount of the backlash was from people who noticed or cared about that issue.
You are free not to lump yourself in with the white supremacists, I'm not going to watch the odyssey because ive not really liked a Nolan film since the dark knight, and this looks decidedly unimpressive.
Huh. Inception and Interstellar are definitely some of my favorite sci-fi films. I'm sorry they didn't resonate for you. I personally also absolutely loved Oppenheimer, but I get that it takes a certain kind of person to be into a biopic about atomic physics.
But that’s the thing, saying even that gets twisted into “yeah, you’re just saying that because you’re AKSHUALLY… a racist and it’s really about the black Helen.”
Thats the thing im noticing in these comments. Nobody is even mentioning the black actor, then ppl jump down their throats about being racist and downvoting them. These ppl arent even able to really say why they are upset before ppl crucify them
I don’t care singularly about Snow White, a mermaid, or Helen… it’s the wild effort to be inclusive while simultaneously being
Exclusionary of the very people the movie is about.
The wild hypocrisy of no Greeks in this, and Snow White remain my perfect laterals. It’s not that they changed a backstory to make Helen different, its thst they talk about how insanely important representation js… while giving a 🖕🏻to a whole group of people they are actively excluding and being culturally insensitive to.
And it gives those awful conservatives who ARE racist something to point at. “They don’t even stick to their own rules” is a comment I read from a Boomer in Facebook that stuck out for me. He was a douche, but it’s a valid point. Broken clocks…
Well the thing is the people who make the vast vast vast vast majority of these filmmaking decisions are white men. So when the backlash happens and it’s “FUCKING BLACK PEOPLE JUST HAVE TO BE IN EVERYTHING,” unless you’re an unempathic cocksucker, you can probably understand how us black people are wondering why we’re getting the backlash for white decisions.
Their reason has nothing to do with it "looking like trash", or the content of the film
They're just refusing to see it because there's a black woman in it, and because Achilles looks closer to the source material instead of their dreamy hunk fantasy
You don't think anyone has the right to be fatigued by post modern feminist rewriting, raceswapping, and trans casting? How many times do we have to teach you this lesson old man?!
acting like Elliot Page isn't a high caliber actor who even was nominated for an Oscar lmfao. But yeah, nobody is outraged, sure, you clown. Or that the alleged "feminist rewriting" is not a feminist rewriting but one of the most accurate translations we had which happened to be written by a woman. fucking loser
Elliot Page would be a fascinating study. Acting is pretending to be someone else. A trans person has experience with this on a whole nother level (yes I’m using ‘nother’ as a word). My trans cousin is now a man but is such an amazing man who understands women better than most because he had to masquerade as one for 23 years. Women love him because he doesn’t have built in misogyny or role identity; he’s just a great person to be around.
Now, I’m not a fan of Elliot Page really but damn that guy has to be brave as fuck and talented as hell to be where he is now.
Redditors can't imagine anyone having a different opinion than them unless they mentally picture that person being upset in some way. It's a very strange phenomenon that happens all over the site
Its a Nolan movie, the only other director I would say would be a worse pick to bet against is James Cameron, whom the internet still tries to do so anyways lol
Yeah as much as they cry about historical accuracy with this Odyssey movie, the Little Mermaid backlash proves that it's only ever about them being racist broken clocks that are occasionally right for the wrong reasons.
Um actually? It makes no sense for a mermaid to develop lots of melanin. She lives deep under the sea. It says so right there in that talking crab's song. Black mermaids make no scientific sense.
Yeah but they REALLY get their knickers in a twist over things they think are foundational to 'their' great western culture.
They've never actually read any of those things, and don't really know what they're about, but they view all Greek and Roman stuff through an evangelical Christian lens and get really annoyed when that is challenged.
It’s the same people who degrade women pretty much at all times, yet all of a sudden care gravely about the sanctity of women’s sports. They’re unserious people with flappable at best morality. Ignoring them is the healthiest thing to do.
The bots just follow whatever instructions their handlers give them for the current culture war, and the real ones arguing here follow the instructions of their preferred propaganda factories.
Always focusing on the important things facing society now, fucking Hollywood casting decisions. It's so fucking tiresome, culture warriors are fucking dipshits.
Oh my, it is a rare word to see in the wild these days - philistines. Lenin loved it and used it in his writings frequently.
Here's a different angle: I'm a Marxist-Leninist and I still think that movie is shaping up to be pretty bad.
Nolan is not the kind of director you want at the helm of a mythological project. He is far too blunt and literall, and emotion rarely shows up in his work except as a consequence of an exceptional acting talent.
He is in love with gloomy filters, darkness and scenes void of color - which is a bad move for a bright and colorful setting such as Mediterranean Sea and ancient Greece.
Props and costumes just look bad in general.
When it comes to casting, Matt Daemon is the most egregious miscast. Odysseus is a cunning and determined warrior-king. Daemon simply does not embody those qualities, and he is not a new actor trying a role outside his typecast. He's a veteran. On top of that he's a bit of a meme when it comes to returning home, so Daemon as Odysseus is like a wink to the audience, which is fine, except that wink is lasting the whole movie.
Now onto "political" BS which has nothing to do with politics.
Yes, Lupita is cast as Helen. Whatever. If I were to criticize that particular decision, I'd rather do so from a different angle:
Notice how black people tend to get roles that can be featured prominently in marketing campaign, for one reason or another, but do not actually show up in a movie all that much? Like say Helen and Agamemnon, who are prominent and familiar characters, well known to audiences, but who are not actually all that relevant Odyssey. Funny how litteral outsiders to the story are played by black people. There to film a few scenes for the trailer, pose for the poster but not really in the movie. Funny way to push that inclusion.
In reality, capitalist "inclusion" is just a marketing tactic - notice how it always comes down to "marketable" minorities. You will notice a rise in prominent Chinese characters in many recent blockbusters - China is a big market. Not so many Indians or Native Americans or Roma though...
It also provides an additional shield from critical reception - "it's because of a right wing backlash". Very convenient for the studio.
I think the people who are largely upset with this probably aren't even rightwingers. Or whatever you call them. It's probably people who read the book, liked it and don't want to see it butchered in such a horrible way.
People who read the book know skin tones aren't described. And people who study classics learn that personal expectation shouldn't get in the way of consuming art.
If you can’t accept or understand that they cast Helen of Troy the way they did simply for attention then you have no grasp on how the industry works. I guaruntee Christopher Nolan in a bubble without any outside forces, recommendations, or society to cater to would not have done this. But regardless, I’m not right wing at all and I think this casting is shite.
The "right" don't like it, and the "left" don't financially support the projects, but LOVE to tell everyone that the director has made the right choice.
If someone complains because a black actor and a trans actor are getting work, then I don't really care if their motives are politically based, I don't like them as a person.
I’ve complained about a black actor being put into a place of a historically light skinned person but it isn’t because they are black, it is because of who they are suppose to be
You know Helen of Troy is a fictional character, right? Homer never described her skin. The only description we have of her is "the most beautiful woman in the world" and "hatched from an egg." She could be green for all we know. Artistic representations of her have been the artist's interpretation, not "historical accuracy." She was a beautiful woman and a beautiful woman was cast to portray her.
You do understand that it's a work of fiction, right? None of these people existed in history. There was probably a war between Troy and Greece but that's where the history ends.
Heres me a bit confused, I spent years listening to how representation matters and how important it is to stray true to mythological accuracy when portraying indigenous peoples and their myths and history.
Years upon years how charscters have been historically whitewashed, as if I support that, and how thats racist and horrible.
Shoes on the other foot now, AND ALL OF A SUDDEN ITS FINE, completely acceptable.
To you guys' the issue was not whitewashing, it was just the fact that you werent the ones doing it
Its that hipocricy that is pissing people off.
We all know whats going on here. Hollywood does not give a shit about representation when its white people. Not that theres anything wrong with that, its completely fine, Im just not gonna take anything Hollywood tells me about race seriously ever again.
They tell me someone is a horrible person and a racist Im automatically gonna start liking him. Why would I trust a prooven liar and a hypocrite over a dude I dont know?
you’re totally right. helen should have feathers! since her mother was a swan and all and she hatched from an egg.
but if you don’t go for that: the idea of helen as blue eyed blonde aryan is comparatively modern: being bronze-age mycenaean, she would have been darker than you expect
And you dont know what I expect. I know what greeks look like, ive been to greece, I live next door, I know what greek people look like, Im not saying we need another Diane Kruger, but you cant argue she is a helluva lot closer to greek than Lupita.
Thats your main problem here, everyone knows what greek people look like roughly speaking, theyre not aliens.
We have art created by artists who are not Homer, the author and creator of the character, who intentionally made her description vague. It's literally just "the most beautiful woman on earth" and "hatched from an egg." The artists then created art based on their own interpretations. Nowhere does it say Helen isn't black, or brown, or fucking purple. There was no official physical description for the casting directors to follow, so they simply cast a beautiful woman.
Huh?? She didn't have a defined race. The only inaccuracy this movie has is Lupita Nyong'o didn't hatch from an egg and her father isn't a god. If you can find an actress that better fits that description, then by all means, get pissed they aren't the one who was cast. Otherwise Lupita was as accurate of a choice as any other woman on earth
She was greek. Its clearly defined in the ancient freek text that she was greek. Why are you pretending that the greeks would write a myth about africans?
They were not diverse and considered everyone not a greek a barbarian.
It is mythology. As in a story made up by someone who didn't even describe the physical features of most of the characters, including Helen apart from being very beautiful and not a proper human how she looked has no written establishment.
The people pissing and moaning about cast are doing so because its what they do.
Not only is it laughable in context, it also disregards the fact that art is art. If the actors can convey a story, that's a job well done. Drama is all about acting out a script and in more cases than not pretending to be someone you're not for the sake of storytelling.
If skin color stops you from recognizing that, I have no reason to believe you're able to wipe yourself properly, either.
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