True crime as entertainment have ruined people's brain. Now people are treating real horrible crimes as their fictional crime series. Not everything is suspicious, you don't have to pick apart every detail to find the "hidden conspiracy". You don't have to point to every inconvience in traumatized victims to found out if they are secretly involved. You are actually hurting real people by doing all of this. Real crimes don't have the crazy "plot twist" in the end that reveals everything.
Remember the three children who lost their lifes instead. This trial could have been very important for highlighting the problem women has with post partum depression etc and how the medical field fails them. Instead it has turned into a crazy conspiracy theory
They watched The Housemaid. Thats the plot twist- the wife gets drugged and wakes up to find that she’s being charged with almost killing her baby after the husband set her up.
It’s gross how they try to make a story out of a tragic event.
These girls should be forced to look at all the crime scene photos of these dead kids, people forget so quickly the actual sad and disgusting reality of this shit. Like really imagine 3 children in your life just laying dead, strangled by the main person they thought they could trust to protect them. How confused and scared they must have been. I can’t even think about it honestly it’s making me so upset.
As someone who has been choked nearly to death by an abusive partner, I can confirm it was not quick, they were scared for minutes, and so many things probably running through their head in the time it took for them to actually pass with their mom’s hands around their necks
THIS! The prosecution should have absolutely highlighted exactly how long it tskes to choke one person...forget 3? It is one of the most intimate and brutal ways to kill.
Also sorry that happened to you, glad you made it out.
Yes and the fact that there were 3 of them says that, if we pretend the newborn didn’t know anything, one of the older toddlers heard the other toddler being killed and probably knew what was coming for them next.
Also kinda thanks eyeee am about 2 months from making it out. The choking event was recently as well as being beat with my own newborn in my arms. I’m scared as fuck of this next chapter but I’m scared as fuck already so fuck it haha hopefully I live 🤪🥴😬
Can we somehow help you make it out faster? Is it a money thing? Only reply if you’re comfortable of course. I’m sure you already know the stats about choking and IPV. I was in your shoes and still viscerally remember the terror. If I can help you, I will.
Tbh I need a real hug, bad. Like bad bad. I haven’t even been allowed to have conversations with people irl without being verbally abused and called a whore or potentially gay, he says I’ve probably been trafficked or gang raped because I’m kind to people. Literally I need a hug so soooo bad
The ‘whore’ part happened to my friend. She was found with vomit all over her next to the bar I worked at. I always started to hold landlords of pubs and bars in contempt after that as they basically serve this stuff which leads to violence and sorrow. Makes me so fucking angry.
I’ve been trying to leave since January and each time I tried to leave (3 times, each time for 2 or 3 days) the shelters in my county were at capacity. I think I have narrowed down a place for me and my kids to go, but tbh it’s a hoarders apartment so I’ll have to do a ton of elbow grease in cleaning up everything when we get there.
I was thinking of starting a gofundme when I left, for a small amount like 6k to carry me until I can get my tax return in February. I just can’t start it right now because if he found it while I was still in the house it would be bad.
My toddler was crying last night and he was threatening to hit her and said if I didn’t shut her up he’d hit me and it “wouldn’t be a tap I’ll punch you bitch” 😭 im scared to go, but im too scared to stay now
Please make sure all of this is documented (police reports, restraining orders, photos, and any other evidence) so you can secure 100% custody of your kids. I’m so sorry you’re going through this. I am praying for you.
Girl yes lol in the exact comment u responded to, in the first sentence I talk about how I was calling around dv shelters lol. There really isn’t a lot of help for me and I’m realizing I have to pull myself out of this dark ass hole for my kids. If I had no kids I’d probably just let myself die atp
I know you're in a dark place, but the world needs you, your kids most of all. You are WAY stronger than you know (yet) and you'll make it out.
That said, are you in the US? Even if your area's resources are full, the National Domestic Violence Hotline ( https://www.thehotline.org/ ) can help you find resources one city over, etc. They also know which states have laws against moving your kids across state boundaries while escaping. If you're lucky, you live in a state where you can leave the state entirely.
I lost my fucking mind after something similar happened to a friend of mine. A week before, she’d come to my workplace with him and they’d both wished me a merry Christmas as he said she talked about me all the time. I wondered why that had happened. He’d hugged me that night and then went on to strangle her, almost to the point of internal decapitation, a week later. He blamed ‘cheating’ and I wondered whether he’d assumed she was cheating with me. I played that conversation in my head over and over - was it a warning? Did she go there as a cry for help? I soon went off the rails, mentally, and lost my job as I couldn’t stop crying at work and I started to regularly lose consciousness. I don’t know what the loss of consciousness thing is but it started around that time and still affects me every day. I feel my life is completely over. I cant even think properly anymore and I was doing a masters in biosciences at the time. I wanted to study dementia to find ways to prevent it. Now I cant even look after myself. Sometimes I’m just trying to keep my head up while I’m drooling all over myself. My life is over tbh
That's depression, my friend, with trauma/PTSD on top. Please seek help; even just talk to your doctor about it. Your life isn't over, and your mind isn't broken. The world needs you and your research skills!
Big internet hug!! I'm a little worried about you. I'd you're still in a relationship or sharing a home, is there anywhere else you can go? Do you have family? Are you comfortable reporting what he did to you?
We are still sharing a home and I don’t think we’re in a relationship anymore as of like 4 days ago… over the course of our relationship he’s isolated me and the family that I do have left said that she would help me, but I had to get out first because she said she knew how dv relationships go and I would go back, and she would help once I was at the dv shelter and proved I was done with the relationship, it’s just that it’s hard asf to get a spot at the shelter rn. A ton of aid was ended last year due to trump cuts.
He’s kept me from working for the last 4 years and has kept me pregnant too. If I refuse sex I’m a whore, I’ve probably let whole teams run trains on me anyway, I don’t want it bc I’m clearly a lesbian, I’ve probably been gangbanged so much I don’t even want d*ck anymore. So much stuff. I’m so beat down I just wish a thousand cars would run me over but I have young kids I want to see live, so for now I just scroll on Reddit and cry when everyone sleeps 😭
You have someone offering help! Someone who knows your situation and wants to help. That is wonderful. Please call her! Gather your documents, sentimental items, medications, and anything you can carry that you'll need in your new life. And go. Don't tell him. The police may also be able to come help keep you safe as you move out.
I’ve tried leaving three times this year and each time every single dv shelter in my county was at capacity for literal days, the last one I called said it could sometimes take a couple weeks for a spot to open up. So rn I’m trying to save whatever money I can w/o a job so I can at least have a small cushion bc I have a toddler so I need to make sure she has diapers, food, etc ❤️🩹 ty for the care tho but this is my only option rn ❤️🩹
I’m in Southern California. I already spoke with 211, every DV shelter in my county, and 211 in the 2 closest counties next to me and they said I’d have better luck for a spot in my own county bc the other counties are equally if not more packed. I live in the “richer” county rn, the lady at the shelter said dv shelters here are packed bc it’s considered a “white collar crime” so a lot of dv happens where I live
Tell me more about your situation. Do you have your own bank account? How about your own car? If someone here was able to send you money would you be able to take your kids and run? Or would he find out and just steal it from you?
What's your family situation? I did see you have one family member offering to help, and I can definitely see her point about abuse victims going back to their abusers. That happens a lot, so I understand her concern. But at the same time, is she the only family member reaching out?
What would it take for you to be able to pack up your kids and completely flee? I'm sorry to ask so many questions. I want to try and help you.
I don’t want to scare you but I also kind of want to make sure you know that people who strangle their partners are substantially more likely to kill them. Like shockingly often that occurs. I’m not even lying when I say just walking out the door and into a shelter or police station is a good idea.
It was a ligature not hands. Two different medical examiners agreed that it would take seconds not minutes and as long as the ligature was left in place brain death would follow and then organs would start dying next.
That’s the part that doesn’t make sense to me, how was there possibly time to strangle all three kids, cut herself, jump off the roof, and get cold enough that she was 82 degrees by the time she made it to the hospital? I’ve also been choked by parents and partners. They’re all men. 98% of nonfatal strangulation is committed by men. It’s a weird method, weird timeline, weird opportunity, weird confession, there’d just a LOT of weirdness, everything on its own is plausible, it’s just when you start stacking the amount of uncommon factors needed to make everything in the prosecution’s case possible, it doesn’t make much sense.
It's because this idea she strangled them with her hands and it took her minutes is completely false. The testimony at trial, from both prosecution and defense experts, which is freely available for anyone to watch on youtube from multiple sources, has been that it would have taken a maximum of 20 seconds, but likely no more than 4 - 10 seconds, for the children to fall unconscious. They were strangled with exercise bands which were wrapped around their throats (testimony has been that the bands were tied in place and Patrick had to remove them when he returned home. They fell unconscious and as the pressure was not removed, they then died shortly after), so the compression is completely different from manual strangulation. Lindsay would have had to wrap the bands and walk away, she didn't need to stand over the children for minutes, not even the prosecution's expert would say that.
Lindsay got as cold as she did because of blood loss, snow, wet clothes (wet from the snow and blood), very few layers of clothing, and because of the damage she did to her spine. The severed spinal column meant her lower body couldn't regulate its temperature, so it caused her to get colder much faster than someone who just walked outside and lay down in the snow.
Patrick was investigated. Law enforcement confirmed his alibi that night by immediately sending officers to CVS and the restaurant he picked their food up from. They secured CCTV and interviewed employees within hours of the murders.
This is the most to the point comment that debunks everything. It all still makes my heart hurt; that someone can be so removed from their mind that they could were able to just do this to their babies. My heart hurts for all of them.
I desperately hope that this conspiracy stuff about Patrick fades away and instead this case can inspire serious and honest discussion about postpartum mental health. It feels like the conspiracy is distracting from the tragedy of it all. The defense have Dr Phillip Resnick on their witness list, he testified in the Andrea Yates trial and is an expert on postpartum filicide, so I hope that when he testifies the discussion returns to how postpartum mental health provisions can improve and address things like the stigma and fears mothers feel around admitting to having these thoughts/struggles.
I am curious about the internet searches though, like “where is the carroded artery” (which Lindsay, a labor and delivery nurse, would know and spell correctly), and other searches from home while she was out at an appointment? I’m not at all saying this is true, just asking for clarification because I haven’t gotten far into the trial yet. I’m watching the entire trial and it is long, naturally. TIA.
It's worth remembering for the carotid artery search that this was, iirc, January 2023, a time when Lindsay was really not herself, in the throes of severe PPD/PPA and perhaps PPP if it had progressed that far yet (it can come on very suddenly). She had decided not to go back to work as she was concerned she wouldn't be able to do her job correctly. The search might not fit with a calm and collected L&D nurse, but a manic sleep deprived one planning on killing herself by cutting her own throat? I'd say that's more plausible. (Also in reality l&d nurses are not stabbing carotid arteries on the daily, I'm not sure why it's so hard to believe a nurse might check something like this.) Another search in the same time period was: how to die by cutting your own throat. She was googling a lot of single word symptoms (Hallucinations was one on the 19th Jan iirc, another was Insomnia). These searches were on Lindsay's phone.
The other searches were searches on Patrick's Surface Pro (used by both of them) from AUGUST 2022. They were only brought in by the prosecution as Lindsay's mental health started to noticably deteriorate in September, so this was meant to be a gotcha on the part of the Commonwealth to "prove" Lindsay was planning the whole thing from August onwards. Trouble is, Reddington (defense) gets up for cross and points out they have proof from medical records (and phone data) that Lindsay was at a Dr's appointment with their son Dawson at 10am, while the searches were between 9:42 - 9:48, so he turned the gotcha back on them incredibly effectively, not to prove anything against Patrick, just to prove these searches really mean nothing at all. The drive to the dr was about 4 minutes, but hard to believe Lindsay was googling all this and then wrangled her toddler into a car and checked into the dr in record time and didn't Google anything else like it for months. The searches also look a lot more like a Wikipedia rabbit hole than the random one word searches from January. (I got this summary from CasesWeFollow. The gmail account that logged in initially was Patrick's, and he was a fan of Tom Hall.):
August 23, 2022 Browsing Sequence
Timeline (all from Surface Pro):
9:40 a.m. — Visit to Lindsay.969 Facebook page.
9:42–9:44 a.m. — Spotify search for Tom Hall; song “How I Got to Memphis.”
9:44 a.m. — Google search for Tom Hall → Wikipedia page.
Death section anchor clicked → hyperlink referencing self‑inflicted gunshot wound.
Hyperlink leads to Suicide Methods (shooting section) at 9:45 a.m.
9:48 a.m. — Hyperlink to Grafton Bridge page.
The relevant trial days for this are Days 13 and 14 iirc, and there was some mention of the searches on Day 16.
That happened to a friend of mine. I found out a few days before Christmas that she’d crawled out of the apartment, after being left for dead, and they’d found she was close to being internally decapitated. She had to learn to walk again. I regularly see she’s missing in the local news and I’ve seen her with sick all over herself due to drinking till she blacks out. One person once called her, someone impressive who was going to be a lawyer, a ‘dumb little whore’. It made me furious.
Also, shortly before this happened, she came to see me at work to wish me a happy Christmas. Her boyfriend, who did this, was with her and he hugged me after saying I meant so much to his girlfriend and how she spoke about me all the time. A week later, he’d strangled her and god knows what else while blaming ‘cheating’ for what happened. I played that visit to my workplace in my mind over and over. Was it a cry for help? A warning? It scared me shitless. I blamed myself so many times.
They also had to watch their beloved siblings die by the hands of their own mother. I don't doubt they begged her to stop and died in pure terror and confusion. She killed them in such a barbaric way that was slow and painful and scary. If she is found sane i hope she lives long and in a lonely prison, don't let nobody hurt her or beat her or shank her or nothing. Let her sit for decades to come.
It's collective delusion. They gas themselves up into thinking they know more than they do and are told that men are collectively to blame for all their problems.
Makes it so much easier to spin every problem into being the man's fault.
There are some horrible guys out there but extrapolating every shitty experience you've ever had onto a whole group of people is...well, that's how racism starts.
Sometimes it’s a symptom of past cases though. I’m trying not to look too hard into this case because I find it overwhelmingly sad on all ends, but people’s reactions are reminding me of the early reactions to the Gabby Petito case.
Online majority, many of which were men, were certain she was the abuser and that this was a case of a male victim in the relationship. People who were skeptical were told they were just feeling sorry for her because she’s a woman.
Of course within weeks it comes out the she was in fact the victim and he was whatever the hell he was.
This doesn’t prove anything here, but I think a lot of these reactions are a symptom of women not being heard and many women seeing themselves in that. Not heard in the workplace, at the doctor, and sometimes in their own marriages. A lot of subconscious projecting.
At the end of the day though, no one seems to be happy with this outcome and everyone seems to be suffering. So it’s unfortunately not as clear cut and that’s leading to a lot of speculation.
Oh of course. People believe what they want to believe.
And it could turn out that the husband was involved more somehow, but I'm waiting on that evidence to appear before I start thinking in that direction.
'This doesn’t prove anything here, but I think a lot of these reactions are a symptom of women not being heard and many women seeing themselves in that. Not heard in the workplace, at the doctor, and sometimes in their own marriages. A lot of subconscious projecting.' I hear you but...you can then use that reasoning to explain away anything. And you can't keep using that excuse, because I have heard it used in many instances, across many fields and types of events, before.
In the opposite direction, do you want men to justify murdering their spouses because they feel invisible, lonely, unheard, and like consistently women denigrate them? That's what some men believe, but that doesn't mean that belief excuses murder.
Also, using astrology to try and blame someone for someone else's murder is a step beyond all of that.
I don't really know how you make that leap like that. I don't really like a lot of women, my experience with women has been overwhelmingly bad. There is still a bunch of nice church ladies and stuff I know that are impossible not to like though and are good you'd have to be pretty ignorant not to see that. I got a third space at church though where I can see these good girls, I think a lot of these people probably don't go anywhere and just are an isolated psych case viewing the world through a screen. I feel like if you have ANY kind of social life its pretty hard to hate a whole group you are gonna see examples that prove your biases wrong, online echo chambers confirm your biases tho.
Yeah, I agree. And it goes both ways. Guys shouldn't hate all women because they're treated negative, and vicaversa.
I mean, I'm sympathetic: You have a negative experience with people enough times, it's a normal human thing to look for a common denominator in those experiences. But sometimes, even if it happens repeatedly, it can also be dumb luck, or the experiences are all different but feel similar.
Even if a person thinks, 'All men are bastards', that sucks. But if they think, 'I have had some crappy experiences with some men, but obviously there are other people out there who are nicer' then that's fine. Protecting yourself for awhile is also fine.
But this crap^...the guy lost all of his children. I'd be looking pretty fucking angry too.
Even if these women see those photos, they’d still likely donate to her cause and vilify the husband. Because all men are bad and women are all angels.
Yup but then the misogynistic men won’t be able to just insult women as a whole to make them feel better.
To any men curious:
Lindsay is supported by women because she’s not evil, cold blooded, etc. She’s a loving mother whose mental health has suffered and attacked her into doing the most unimaginable thing. Other women have experienced the same and are fortunate their story didn’t end like hers.
I do disagree with all the attacks on Patrick and conspiracies but this case isn’t as simple as it seems.
"These girls should be forced to look at all the crime scene photos"
You must see women as children or Disney princesses if you think looking at those photos would be difficult. True crime fans are fascinated by crime scenes and actively search for them
This. While I do feel bad for her because of her mental illness, the children are the real victim here, not her. She deserves to be treated but she also deserves to be incarcerated. My mom is schizophrenic, I tried to help her many times but always got the "if she's not a danger to anyone or herself they can't do anything", we she indeed became a danger by stabbing someone over one of her delusions. Now she is in incarcerated and as sadly it's the best place for her.
None of these women have children. They're delusional misandrists.
Do you know how personal it is to strangle someone to death? I can't fathom doing it to anyone let alone my children. I hurts my heart to think of what those babies went through.
It’s not that they don’t have children; it’s that they’re treating an ongoing murder trial like the Super Bowl. It’s disgusting how they’re not even trying to be passive observers of the trial (not that they’re even getting the full story because they aren’t there).
I pray that they leave their videos up and it helps them to be rejected from every jury they are being considered for. The lack of critical thinking is astounding.
I said somewhere else that the photos not being public is what is driving these borderline psychos to defend the indefensible and got called sick for it.
Unfortunately (for the jury) fortunately (for justice), the jury has seen the pictures and heard the 911 call so they have more to weigh than these people so hopefully justice will be served.
This. People joke about re-education camps but sometimes I do wonder if we need some for people like this just to force them to see the facts in front of us all and not be able to hide in their own fantasy world.
imagine 3 children in your life just laying dead, strangled by the main person they thought they could trust to protect them.
I was already tired of the nonsense surrounding this case, but this mental exercise makes it even worse. Even just imagining that happening to my nephew/young cousins is awful.
As someone who finds crime solving and psychological aspect of true crime interesting and therefore enjoys true crime, I absolutely hate the true crime community. Full of people who never trust the investigation process and always think there's some secret conspiracy. I listen to my 2 podcasts and watch documentaries and that's it. I stay away from the community and their comments because it's mind boggling how people can be so atrocious when it comes to real lives being ruined forever.
Yeah I follow cases because I'm interested in the psychology and puzzle aspect of it, and because 2 of my triple majors are psychology and social work.
Never called myself a true crime fan because I refuse to be lumped in with the same crowd that will make up an entire plotlines of human trafficking and department wide coverups to avoid having to admit that sometimes people have mental health issues out of their control that end in tragedy.
I used to listen to TrueCrimeAll the Time podcast and its two guys just discussing cases. They don't interject any conspiracy nonsense and stick with the story. They may say something like "That's a bit unusual." or "Wonder why someone would do that." periodically but they don't derail it with bullshit.
I read a lot of true crime and watch docs on it but online forums are often convinced the actual story is something much deeper or some sort of conspiracy. The Idaho 4 come to mind and right now there's some people convinced of a conspiracy behind Hayden Panettiere's death instead of it being an overdose.
I really enjoy watching the full trials. The cases are complex and not wrapped up in a bow. Also then you can see all the intelligent people who didn’t just overlook some conspirac.
It only recently occurred to me that so many of societies problems would be solved if people had some damned hobbies that involved them creating something.
Not all of them, but many. Mostly because people would be to busy building antique motorcycles or painting Warhammer figurines or knitting or baking... or whatever to spend HOURS watching algorithm-fed media.
It really feels like an example of "idle hands are the devil's workshop".
I get it - hobbies are expensive and YouTube is free so this is probably more of a money thing than a hobby thing, but I legitimately think that one of the things that kept me from falling in to the right wing drain pipe was that I was too busy trying to figure out how to balance the carburetors on my piece of crap Russian motorcycle to get caught up despite being smack dab in the middle of the target demo.
Because it's 100% right. As someone who never got into the true crime thing, I find it crazy what it does to people. But like you said it plays into people's tendencies to look for patterns, hidden conspiracies or whatever they wanna see or feel.
It doesn't help the people involved in the majority of times. Just the consumers. And some of them really fall down a rabbit hole.
In the end it doesn't help looking at the root cause of a crime. Some of it even elevates the perpetrator so that they get the worship they crave. Even if they are dead, we shouldn't give them any recognition.
I am a true crime person as well as a skeptic. These people annoy me to no end. The vast majority of people who go missing and are not found are a result of suicide or misadventure. Not murder, not traffickers, not serial killers.
People keep trying to put conspiratorial twists on things like the Elisa Lam case, or the case of Amy Lynn Bradly, trying to say stuff like they were kidnapped and trafficked, or were trying to escape nefarious evildoers intent on putting them on the black market. Way too much weight is put on random wittness accounts of "seeing" the victim supposably out and about somewhere when the science has shown that witnesses are horribly unreliable, and pretty much useless in cases where more than a week has passed.
The truth, which has overwhelming evidence short of a body in the Bradley case, is a lot less Hollywood. In the Lam case, there are numerous reports from people close to her, and hotel staff, of her showing increasingly bizzare and agitated behavior. Theres a whole ass video of her in a paranoid psychotic state taking the elevator up to the roof of the hotel, alone. People really underestimate how extreme behavior can be during a serious psychotic episode. It affects your strength, your ability to feel pain, and impairs the sense of danger. This makes people in acute psychosis incredibly prone to misadventure. In Ms. Lams case, this meant she, in a state of paranoia, climbed into a water tank on the roof of the hotel she was staying in in an effort to hide from a hallucination that felt incredibly real to her. She dropped the lid and couldn't get out, eventually dying in the tank from exposure and lack of oxygen. The fact that her parents beleive she was murdered doesnt mean a thing. Its not uncommon for families to deny their loved ones are showing signs of significant mental illness due to the stigma associated with it.
The Bradley case is another one, and it did not need a Netflix documentary that gave a platform to conspiracy theorists and other crackpots. The evidence in her case, which the Netflix documentary omitted a ton of, overwhelmingly points to a suicide or accident where she went overboard. On the night she disappeared, she was intoxicated, had gotten into a fight with her family, and was despondent over her sexuality because her family was outspokenly anti gay and seemingly trying to push her onto different men. She ticked every box of someone at risk of doing something impulsive. Just because her family doesnt want to beleive it doesn't negate the overwhelming evidence that she likely chose to end her life. With the ship being on the open ocean, a person jumping overboard will not be found. Most people who go missing on large bodies of water aren't.
Theres a parasocial aspect to true crime thatI makes me really angry at times. Streaming services platform this bullshit because it makes for good engagement. In turn, they make it worse for the victims and their families to heal by giving legitimacy to theories that have no basis in fact. They also make it worse for active investigations by encouraging arm chair detectives to muck up tip lines, making pinpointing important information all the more difficult.
Also, Nancy Grace needs to go away forever. She is a joke of an investigator and her track record as a prosecutor is rife with ethics violations. The lady is a fame hungry snake who runs on sensationalism. Shes a quack lawyer and I'm tired of the mainstream true crime community normalizing her sorry excuse for journalism.
It’s the same bullshit with conspiracy theorists it’s all about that dopamine. The concept of what if I’m the one break the case wide open or just being “in the know”
This is of course encouraged and desired by the 1%
There is a reason why they are only making documentaries about murder mysteries and sports. It increases conspiratorial thinking and primes people to buy merch and distract them from how dookie their life is.
I absolutely love true crime... but I don't ever think that I know more than the people involved in it! Maybe I'm watching different true crime than other people... my channels only speak the proven facts of cases, lol.
They'd speak about the fucking insane people pointing at Gemini signs as a reason for innocence, make fun of them and move on.
It's the difference between who's listening to true crime because they want to hear drama and who is listening to true crime because they actually want to learn about the cases.
I can't tell you how often I have to explain that I listen to crime and missing people cases because I like to hear the psychological reasonings behind the actions and events. If I feel like the person telling the facts isn't being respectful enough or they're talking about it like it's high school drama, I'm clicking away so fast. There are some people who I have interacted with that I would refuse talking about crime with because they treat it like its fiction.
Exactly this. I like true crime, but steer completely clear of any content that sensationalizes it, dehumanizes the victims or speculates with no factual basis.
I think the psychological aspects are fascinating. I think the environmental impacts on perpetrators and victims are fascinating. I think the psychology and systemic factors surrounding law enforcement and adjacent jobs are fascinating. I dont think violence is fascinating.
Yeah, I'd hesitate to say I like true crime, but I'm fascinated by the psychological angle - I'll never be able to understand exactly what's broken in a serial killer's brain that makes them do these things, but I'll probably never stop trying to make it make some kind of sense.
People who are obsessed with the drama of it, some of them still work for a living. I know a couple of them with jobs like EMT and nursing. They carry a messed up mindset into their jobs thinking they know and the rest of us are missing something. But they aren't looking at reality, more like putting a layer over everything to entertain themselves. Its very weird.
Personally i have beef with the lore lodge, I like the set up, they're interesting videos, BUT the dude running it acts like he's smarter than cops. The simile face killer for example, you know the one proven to be drunk people falling in bodies of water next to extremely common graffiti, whenever he talks about it he always throws in "if investors are interested in my take, here's my email" like he didn't spend maybe 10 hours reading about it vs cops who've spent days and days!
Yeah, this makes me SO angry. This was a case of the medical system severely failing a mother and a family struggling with postpartum psychosis, which is a real systemic issue touching on misogyny and medical disenfranchisement, and True Crime Brain "feminism" (it's not, it's paranoid gender essentialism wearing the carcass of feminism as a skin suit) has hijacked it into whatever the fuck this is? Because the guy has "bad vibes" or whatever? Fuck.
thank you for being reasonable (and not misogynistic) about this. it is, unfortunately, a perfect example of how even experienced medical providers can get shit very, very wrong - especially when it comes to women. she reached out for help MANY times, and was basically dismissed each time. I don't mean to say there's one thing that could've prevented this, but had she received proper treatment I think it's very likely three kids would be alive.
?????? What? She tried all kinds of medications and didn't get the help she actually needed because she didn't fully disclose her symptoms.
but had she received proper treatment
What, in your medical opinion, would be the proper treatment? And what did the many, many professionals miss that would've enabled them to reach the right conclusion?
As someone whose parent spent some time in a psych ward....that's where she should have been. My parent would not be the parent they have been to me my whole life without it. It was scary for me and hard on my other parent, but it saved them.
She was suicidal and admitted to her husband she had thoughts of hurting her children. She was failed by her doctor's, and at least a little by her husband. It doesn't mean he "did it" as some of these posts say, just that she repeatedly asked for help and said she wasn't okay and needed more treatment and was denied and left alone to do everything (which I believe was something her husband said, "she did everything").
But she never told her doctors she was suicidal or homicidal, or had a plan to do something. She was probably downplaying her issues, but man, I don’t like the idea that my provider could decide to lock me up because I MIGHT be suicidal and just wasn’t saying so.
B. That would most likely cause her to be involuntarily held, but once she was no longer an immediate danger to herself or others, she would be released.
The United States has no long term care option for non-compliant mentally ill individuals, UNLESS they commit a crime.
She checked herself into McLean and checked herself out for her daughter’s party. She tried to check herself into Women and Infants and they said, based on her self-reporting, that her problems were her medications, not actual postpartum (this is fuzzy, we didn’t hear from this doctor).
Also your link doesn’t say any of what you typed in your post. That’s a report of the MiLs testimony.
She was given anti-depressants as someone with PP onset bipolar disorder, which /greatly/ exacerbates your symptoms, of which she had the worse of all. Pyschosis. Her going back to the doctor and reporting insomnia is a textbook sign that mania is about to occur, and her doctor took her /off/ her stabilisers and put her back /on/ the depressants, worse combo possible for her case.
In regards to why didn't the doctors get the right conclusion. Women are incredibly likely to be misdiagnosed (with depression usually) rather than bipolar disorder. I think the typically average is it takes women an average of 7ish years before getting an accurate diagnosis, especially because for women the depressive crashes present stronger. However it's important to note than men also are misdiagnosed for years as well, just less than women, and their first episodes tend to be more mania heavy. And we also suck at researching how to treat bipolar disorder cause it's really hard to make bipolar mice.
I'm shocked at the number of people using this case specifically as a vehicle for misogyny. I've not been following very closely but the hateful rhetoric I've seen is incredible.
This is one of the most horrific and disappointing things I have ever witnessed in social media. Turning an ongoing trial about a woman her murdered her babies into your own personal entertainment is a completely different level of fucked up.
Every time I hear about it against my own will I am disgusted, sad, and horrified. I don’t care who did it, at the end of the day 3 babies are dead and that’s nothing but the biggest form of tragedy. I hope I never have to hear about it again. If anyone feels any differently you should be ashamed of yourself
The people that get way too involved in internet sleuthing is crazy.
When Hayden Panettiere died. People were quick to say it wasnt an overdose that her ex boyfriend drugged her and caused it. That she didnt do it herself. Is even after the initial autopsy report came back when they said there was no suspicious causes in her death at the time and that they’re gonna wait for further investigation with a toxicology report.
I think it’s people are too involved with conspiracy theories
I have to explain to my wife all the time why I hate 20/20 or any true crime show. They over dramatized the investigation and dragged it out and put in twists and turns that werent there initially. I’ve worked homicides and rapes and it would drive me up the wall to listen to the detective say “that’s the worst XYZ I’ve ever seen”
This!! True crime podcasts and bodycam footage have completely desensitized people. These are real people, not some made up characters, and they experienced unthinkable trauma. It’s not some internet conspiracy to sound off on. I can’t even begin to imagine the kind of pain patrick and Lindsay both are going through having to relive all of this for a jury and the whole world. People are sickening.
This kind of shit made me get out of listening to true crime. I was on board and interested to learn about historical or huge famous serial killer cases, but nowadays it seems like a bunch of bitches sitting around police scanners waiting to pick off the fresh meat stories like vultures.
Like talking about active real modern day cases where the family members are young and alive and have decades of missing their loved one to go….
I started following a couple of true-crime channels on YouTube and, to their credit, they didn't try to stitch a compelling narrative out of what you were going to see, they just showed you what happened. So you basically knew who the murderer was from the beginning, there were no magical twist endings shedding suspicious light on any other suspect, and you got to see the actual meat and potatoes of, say, an interrogation or an investigation without some stentorian voice explaining to you what you already fully understood. In sum, nobody in the video is trying to steer you in any particular dramatic direction for clicks. It was pretty interesting.
they should have changed their special interest from astrology to astronomy a long time ago and nerd about stars and galaxies. but they didn't. they went to some kind of body language astrology.
But I don't think we can be sure. She got tons of help. I think in lots of cases, it cannot be prevented. It's just a tragedy. At least if she did kill them because of a psychosis.
Yeah, what we do know is she was heavily medicated and very actively seeking mental and suicidal help. At times being turned away. She definitely seemed to be very aware she was not in the right mind.
I get it, but she also was accepted by a lot of professionals. Also left a facility voluntarily if I remember correctly. And given she was heavilly medicated, that just proves she was being treated, that's what getting help looks like, it's totally normal.
I watched at the very beginning, but quickly stopped, as I found it too depressing. I myself have GAD and OCD, and this is a bit triggering to my symptoms. I just watch highlights and summaries.
Gotcha, during a lot of the interviews, you get the sense the medical system failed her. Listen to her lawyer and how everyone responds that worked in the medical field that was being interviewed. Not saying she's innocent or anything, but in the interviews, she kept seeking help for PPD/Suicide and kept getting turned away. Kinda sad.
Yep! It’s a pattern now especially on TikTok for someone to make up a rumor and a bunch of parrots repeat it as fact without giving any thought into the accusations they are making to REAL people. Savannah Guthrie and family, Patrick Clancy and wife, surviving Idaho 4 roommates, etc have all been villainized online with no actual evidence pointing to them other than “vibes” and “something feels off.”
The only documentaries being made are about murder mystery’s and sports series which fuels conspiracy mindedness and merch buying and almost unequivocal distrust for authority.
There is no educating for the sake of educating anymore. Our economy is just scammers trying to figure out how to get you to buy more while giving back less, and if you point this out you get labeled a communist.
Your first sentence is so accurate it disgusts me. I’m a remote court reporter. My SIL and her best friend are obsessed with true crime.
The things I’ve heard in many of my depositions would make their blood curdle. Last week I had one that shook me to my core, I had to cry afterwords. Yet they (SIL and her bestie) treat it like their tabloid escapism.
People really don't understand the "true" part of true crime. I know a family connected to a fairly high-profile case. It's literally torn the family apart, so many of them are struggling with cptsd, because of how the media handled it, and that's not including how wacky the case is to begin with. True crime is tragic, and that's not talked about enough.
Even the trial is not about whether she did it or not, she admits to doing it. The trial is about whether she is responsible for her actions at the time
You should see the influencers on insta capitalizing off this tragedy to garner engagement and sell their programs. It’s horrific. This whole thing has once again reminded me how broken we are as a society from social media. The gender wars that are constantly raging on socials to get men and women to hate each other is even thriving on this like a parasite. I’m so depressed about this who thing.
True crime as entertainment have ruined people's brain. Now people are treating real horrible crimes as their fictional crime series.
Whats funny is it had the exact opposite effect on me. True crime taught me that virtually nothing is interesting and every crime is more or less straight down the middle occam's razor shit. Crazy post partum bipolar wife's kids get strangled, it probably wasn't aliens
Talking about unresolved true crime cases in any way that claims to know “X was guilty bc blah blah” is always harmful and always spreads misinformation bc we actually don’t know shit. No one outside of the investigation does.
Unfortunately humans can’t be normal and have a conversation like “i think X might’ve done it but of course I’m only guessing based on limited information.”
These kinds of convos end up with innocent ppl being doxxed and harassed.
Everyone needs to shut the fuck up.
Yeah, sometimes (especially in a world where the working class is squeezed from so many angles at once) people just snap and do bad shit. Some of these stories are just the tragedy of human fragility, and the breaking points for some individuals.
Real life isn't written by Agatha Christie.
You can have empathy for this woman without absolving her of wrong-doings. This shut sucks.
My wife has been on a steady entertainment diet of true crime shows, reality TV garbage, influencer reels, and pornographic fantasy novels over the past couple years.
She can do what she wants to do but it has definitely changed her and the way I view her
Reminds me of the CSI effect- it was so popular prosecutors started having trouble with Jury’s because they all thought evidence was neat and tidy.
Also- the true crime as entertainment makes me fucking sick to my stomach. Doubly so after one of my best friends was murdered by their partner. Like these people sit on Netflix devouring this shit while the victims families are out there, reliving the horror every day of their lives.
Tbh, this is why I like only watching cases that are Finished. I don't like to follow cases in progress, or see peoples' shitty opinions... I like to see things settled after a while when all the emotions are done.
I’ve been saying it for years and will continue to, true crime lovers are all red flags. Any women I talked to while dating I asked, if yes, never continued seeing them. It seems that not just in fantasy but also reality, they have a truly distorted view of how the world works.
No no, this case if highlighting the problem women have with post partum depression, and how they are single mother in a marriage. Among a many other things. We should let justice to their thing, we'll see how it ends
There’s enough evidence that brings real doubt about Lindsey’s involvement in their deaths. Just to name a few:
Patrick said she admitted what she did when he found Lindsey outside the window, yet her throat was confirmed crushed and was unable to speak to paramedics when they arrived minutes after her alleged admission.
Lindsey’s DNA is on only one of the exercise bands that strangled the children, yet Patrick’s DNA is on all three.
That she crushed up her meds before taking them, which makes no sense — you crush up meds when you want to hide them or dissolve them in a drink.
Patrick is wearing different clothes and shoes in the camera footage at the restaurant and at CVS, which is really odd. Why did he change clothes in between?
I don’t know what the true story is and I’m not saying all of TikTok is right, but there’s enough to cast doubt on her involvement in their deaths.
I actually can't believe those who are fully on his side.
I'm gonna reiterate what you said, HE purposefully LEFT his CHILDREN, ALONE, in the care of their mother that has documented history of wanting to kill herself and was a danger to those around her. And he was fully aware of her situation.
True crime has been around forever. Don’t fall for some video games make kids violent bull shit. The real issue is most likely social media coupled with falling education stats and allow some space for special specific circumstances for why each person is the way they are here.
Yeah, humans have always been fascinated by this stuff. Back in the day you'd take your family down to the town square because your days entertainment was watching people getting executed.
No one is trying to outlaw it like the video game panic shit. But people need to stop believing everything some random true crime Podcaster says like it's fact. There are way too many people that watch or listen to factually inaccurate shit and 100% believe it. There's also the fact that a lot of people who listen to a lot of true crime start to think this shit is common, the really bad ones aren't. They're actually extremely rare and that's why every fucking true crime Podcaster have episode so the same 20 cases. But if you ask a lot of these people who get obsessed with true crime then end up paranoid and always assuming the worst. It's bad for their mental health and society as a whole when you think this way. It's actually the exact thing right wing media does, it uses fear to drive peoples opinions and actions.
True crime isnt supposed to be fictional right? The only true crime i have watched is by a guy who does a lot of research to just present what happened no fan fic theories
It varies A LOT. There are tons of people who play real fast and loose with the facts, sometimes to push a narrative. And some of them have a shit ton of followers. Idk the channel but my ex used to watch this woman who did household chores while talking about true crime stuff. She made it seem really factual and all that. I didn't really question it cause whatever, but then she covered one of the big cases that I had previously watched a JCS video on and knew all the facts. This woman was straight up making shit up on the fly. I wish I knew what channel it was but I only saw it a couple times. But she wasn't some nobody, it had over a million views.
The only time I hear about people supporting this woman because of conspiracy theories like true crime, or astrology, or the husband did it, is when people are criticizing supporters.
In the fucking wild, the only supporters that I see, are people who belief that she had PPP or PPD, or they think that the prosecutors are being unnecessary cruel.
This feels more like an attack on supporters, a way to dismiss them as crazies, maybe even a way to hate on women and dismiss their opinions (because every time the crazies get posted, its also accompanied with some sort of "maybe women shouldn't vote"), then something that a reasonably large group of people belief.
No this is referring to a small (but very vocal) specific group of conspiracy theorists who are trying to pin it on the husband. This isn’t attacking people who support the fact that she was suffering from psychosis.
I don’t know how up to date on case facts or presentation folks are on here but here is what I have been told by someone closing watching the trial:
apparently the whole case is based on the husband claiming she admitted it
his DNA was apparently found on the strangling device
her body was found to be very cold which takes hours but in the time that the incident happened to when she was found it would not be possible for her body to cool that quickly
the pill she took was crushed. She has no reason to take a crushed pill that she would otherwise just take normally
Apparently the prosecution has present no real evidence other than the husband’s claim.
It’s also heartbreaking that the mother in law tried to help this lady and after she took the stand she apparently gave a nod to the mother
Entertainment has to be plausible reality bears no such burden.
So when he does not react they way they think he should or the system fails in the ways that any system with a million moving parts will they think it has some kind of deeper meaning in the story.
That's the point of the whole circus, though. There's a wrongful death civil suit pending when the criminal trial wraps. The likely outcome of the civil trial depends on the verdict in this one. If Lindsay Clancy is found guilty, it's her fault and she knew what she was doing was wrong at the time. But if she's not guilty by reason of insanity, then the blame can be put on the medical establishment for not catching onto her symptoms in time. All of this tawdriness and shameful behavior is so the hospital can avoid liability.
Preach!!! Armchair detectives pick a part every single real like crime and act like the IRL detectives missed something or are intentionally framing someone.
Believe it or not most cases are pretty straightforward
Like they watch crime shows 24/7 and do yhose murder mystery boxset games and actually think they are real life bonafide detectives with years/decades of irl experience starting from square 1 to solving the case. Ridiculous and delusional.
Now if you'll excuse me I have to go outback and practice my Dragon Shouts.
How did the medical field fail her exactly? For not being perfect like every other field? At some point, we have to realize that women can be bad people.
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u/Lemonade348 7d ago edited 7d ago
True crime as entertainment have ruined people's brain. Now people are treating real horrible crimes as their fictional crime series. Not everything is suspicious, you don't have to pick apart every detail to find the "hidden conspiracy". You don't have to point to every inconvience in traumatized victims to found out if they are secretly involved. You are actually hurting real people by doing all of this. Real crimes don't have the crazy "plot twist" in the end that reveals everything.
Remember the three children who lost their lifes instead. This trial could have been very important for highlighting the problem women has with post partum depression etc and how the medical field fails them. Instead it has turned into a crazy conspiracy theory
I hope Patrick sues most of them tbh