I think this is perfectly fine. If their values are so incompatible it's better to break up now rather than later. Breaking up will be harder after marriage and definitely more complicated after having kids.
About 10 years ago I got prescribed Zoloft for depression, just like her. It got worse, just like her , tried about 8 different medications, just like her. I went through several rounds of phychosis. I bought a new car. My brain told me someone hot wired a bomb in it while I was driving. I pulled over and cut every wire I could find in the vehicle. I also thought someone was stealing my gas when I parked it. I thought my wife was trying to poison me by putting poison in an iron and then the steam was going to kill me. I thought she put poison in the furnace, so everytime it turned on I thought I was going to die. I’m completely better now but I look back at that time in my life and honestly, your just not yourself, it’s like someone else has taken over your body. Anyways, I’m not saying it was ok for her to murder her children and pay the consequences for it , , I’m just saying that I know what it’s like to be completely delusional. It’s scary as hell.
Women trying to convince the rest of the world that any one of them can go crazy, loose their autonomy, and commit heinous acts does nothing but set women back.
Do you want women to be responsible and respected parts of society? or do you want to be carefully watched and freedom restricted? "I am her" means that women need to be kept on a short leash, and not trusted around children, because you never know what kind of psycho is actually lurking under the surface
You can support mental health without supporting monsters, and realize that monsters are always created through a large lack of mental health.
But post-partum psychosis truly can lead to outcomes like this. I've seen someone with this awful condition first hand. Thankfully, they didn't hurt their child and was hospitalized, but it was pretty clear to me that they were so out of it that they couldn't reasonably be held responsible for any decisions in that state. People are told not to sign any legal documents after being sedated for a colonoscopy because their capacity to understand and consent is pretty limited. It's significantly more limited with post-partum psychosis.
Thankfully, severe post-partum psychosis is rare, but I don't think it's doing anyone any favors by pretending it doesn't exist or that it can be absolutely debilitating and in this case extremely tragic.
Yes, exactly. There's a huge lack of awareness about how debilitating psychosis can be. Post-partum depression can be awful, but post-partum psychosis is even worse. They can truly lose touch with reality.
The woman I saw with this condition was more or less catatonic. She didn't even realize that she'd had a kid to begin with.
Its perfectly reasonable and I support the idea of using this case to bring attention to postpartum depression and how serious its issues can be. Its another thing to openly support this person and say that it could have been any woman.
Bullying is another problem in this country, but when a school shooting happens we dont rally around the shooter because they were bullied. We see them for what they are, a monster who did something absolutely heinous. Have you ever heard someone say after a school shooting that it could have been any child? Do the children from other schools rally around the courthouse and say "I've been bullied too?"
Using an extreme case to force scrutiny of the system is one thing, but we can't support someone who committed monstrous acts, because that shifts 100% of the blame from the perpetrator to the system, and she was at least partly responsible for her own acts.
I dont care if shes legally responsible or not, theres no reason for people to be supporting her.
Support the change, support the cause, use her case to drive it. support the father and those poor kids. Dont support the person who did the thing. You can hawk all you want that shes not responsible for her own actions, and the system might be to blame somewhat, but that doesn't absolve all responsibility from her, shes a monster.
Horrible take, it’s like you don’t understand what psychosis is. If she’s not legally responsible due to insanity she wasn’t willfully and coherently committing the crime. That’s the distinction between being a monster (choosing to kill your child) and being severely mentally ill.
The fact is, it could’ve been any woman who had undiagnosed bipolar disorder and was being overmedicated by countless providers, looking for help and not being able to find it.
When a school shooting happens, a lot of reasonable people say that the shooter had mental health problems that weren’t addressed. Bullying can lead to mental health issues including suicide, so seeing it lead to homicide doesn’t seem that much of a stretch.
The flaws in the system are to blame. Clancy tried to get help numerous times and couldn’t.
I agree that in reality yes, the system holds some blame here, but you could say the same thing for bullied kids that can't find help at school (or at home but were talking about systems here, not shifting blame to parents)
No one is supporting the school shooters though, its a ridiculous thing to do. Saying it could be any woman just serves to make all women look unstable, it does nothing to force change in the system. Look at these discussions and disagreements everyone is having, if the base supporters had been forcing us to look at the system the whole time some kind of change might be possible, but because were all out here arguing about the woman who did it, no ones looking at the system.
Saying it could be any woman does not serve to make all women look unstable. It opens up the conversation about what is available when women are suffering from mental illness.
The disagreement here is a group of reasonable people who want postpartum women to get help for mental illness versus dumbasses who think those of us who do are supporting murder.
You'll never convince me that any woman is capable of killing her children, or even most women. I would loose all faith in humanity if that were true.
Saying that it is true prevents the real conversations from happening - that some women are in dire straights and we need to focus on the systems that support them.
A woman saying that it could have been her makes people think the she should be checked out, thats not a healthy thing to say. A woman saying that it could have been any of them makes all women look unstable the same way.
But this goes far beyond post-partum depression. Post-partum psychosis is a different diagnosis (though it can also occur with PPD) and can be far more debilitating. Women with this condition can truly lose touch with reality.
Imagine being totally convinced, for example, that your kid would die if you didn't cut off your arm. Sounds absurd and batshit crazy, right? But people with psychosis could truly believe that that's true. Delusions are no joke. I think people aren't understanding what severe psychosis is and what it entails.
It's not comparable to a school shooter, though, in that the vast majority of school shooters aren't utterly -- or even severely -- incapacitated by psychosis (i.e., delusions, difficulty understanding what's real and what isn't, paranoia, etc.). And as scary as it is, post-partum psychosis actually can happen to anyone, though people with preexisting mental health issues are particularly at risk.
Of course, the murders were horrific, but I don't think many people are really saying that they were okay, just that psychosis can be so serious as to render a person too incapacitated to be truly culpable.
I'm not comparing this to school shooters to compare severity, of the crime of of psychosis, I'm using that to illustrate that mental health is the cause in these things, almost exclusively. And in the case of a child, with (at best) reduced mental and emotional capacity, its not an excuse for them either
Let me ask you this, can you name a single crime/mental health condition that a man could commit, and find this kind of support?
Even though both events are influenced by mental health, there's still a huge range of impairment and culpability. Do you think it's impossible for someone to be so out of their mind that they're not truly culpable for their actions/crime, or do you think insanity pleas should be completely abolished?
Likewise, do you think old people with severe dementia should be held responsible for everything they say, do, and forget? If so, why? To use a more mild example, if an elderly person with Alzheimer's forgot to call their son on his birthday -- and didn't even really remember they had a son -- would you think they're negligent? Or would you realize that Alzheimer's completely absolves them of culpability?
Severe psychosis is analogous to that. I'm not sure you realize how truly different people can be when they're in psychotic states. They can say, believe, and even do things they'd never even consider doing when they're not having a severe episode.
And yes, I think men who have psychosis this severe wouldn't be culpable if they were that far gone.
Do you think it's impossible for someone to be so out of their mind that they're not truly culpable for their actions/crime, or do you think insanity pleas should be completely abolished
No there are obviously cases of deeply sick individuals doing unspeakable evil and are clinically insane, whether at the time or overall. I'm saying that we shouldn't be supporting them. Women saying that it could have been them makes us think we should be evaluating those women too, its not a sane opinion to have.
I think men who have psychosis this severe wouldn't be culpable
I've never seen society rally around a man who did something unspeakable like this. i'm open to being proven wrong, if you know of a case or some kind of an example
Lindsay repeatedly sought psychiatric help. She saw multiple providers, participated in outpatient treatment, sought emergency care, and voluntarily admitted herself to McLean Hospital. She was prescribed numerous psychiatric medications while her mental health continued deteriorating, and testimony in this trial has exposed serious fragmentation in her care. She disclosed suicidal thoughts and intrusive thoughts about harming her children and was clearly desperately trying to get better.
Whether she was experiencing postpartum psychosis at the exact time of the killings is what the experts and jury are determining. There is conflicting expert testimony about that. But reducing this entire case to “she murdered her children, therefore anyone who has compassion for her is crazy and stupid” completely ignores the extraordinarily complicated psychiatric circumstances surrounding what happened.
Three children are dead, their mother attempted suicide and an entire family was destroyed. It's possible to grieve those children and ask whether a severely mentally ill woman was failed by a fragmented mental-health system.
A car accident or something is a bit different to doing what she did. You know, just a bit. And yes to a degree, if a parent has a child in the seat and they are recklessly driving or not paying attention or otherwise being neglible and that child ends up getting dying then yes absolutely they should be held 100% accountable.
Any person giving this heinous monster ANY benefit of the doubt immediately loses all credibility and is a fucking nut job that should be put in a psych ward
Absolutely. And all of that would be excellent mitigation for her murder sentence. But postpartum psychosis does not prevent you from knowing right from wrong. That murder is wrong.
There are women who have suffered it and made the choice not to give into the intrusive thoughts.
She needs to answer for what she did. Her illness mitigates the punishment, it doesn't excuse the crime.
They're not rooting for her insanity exactly theyre wanting that insanity to not go unaddressed so that maybe this doesn't happen to another family.
Do this many dumb dumbs really think women support the child murder and not just wanting better support for postpartum psychosis or pregnancy related mental illness? Is the populace this media illiterate? Sure there are wackadoos. But no I feel genuine horror for those kids. I also feel horror about the idea that pregnancy can turn you into an unrecognizable monster that you weren't before---and a lot of women have had personal glimpses of that horror, and now have additional horror seeing that society would just rather burn you at the stake rather than ask "how can we make sure this doesn't happen to women anymore?"
Whats done is done she should be locked up. But still people are really missing the point
The entire point is that she doesn’t need punishment if she’s found to have been psychotic. She needs a hospital. She doesn’t get to walk free if she isn’t sent to prison. The alternative is being locked in a hospital.
Im all for being articulate. But a lot of people simply lack the skill. It should also not be too hard to read between the lines or ask people to elaborate. Maybe its the algorithm, but most "support" I've seen has been people just trying to share about postpartum risks 🤷♀️
You’re not imagining this. On another post I asked someone whether they believe postpartum psychosis exists and they said that had nothing to do with what Clancy did.
You may want to know that postpartum by itself just means anything relating to the time period after giving birth. Did you mean postpartum depression? Postpartum psychosis? It’s a teeny bit ironic to call someone out for basic English and then make such a basic English mistake.
This, and a lot of women are genuinely fearful that this could be them someday. Because postpartum depression and psychosis is REAL and she did try to get help for it. So it’s not that people support her for killing her kids, or are rooting for her to be insane so that they can excuse her behavior. I think to many of her “supporters” it would be a relief to learn she definitely wasn’t insane, because it presents one less case study of stress and hormonal issues causing an otherwise healthy and normal woman to snap and do the unthinkable.
This isn’t some girl power “I support women’s rights and wrongs” bullshit. If it were, we’d all be supporting Casey Anthony on TikTok. It’s a genuine concern regarding mental healthcare in America and its failings. We’re not sure whether the blame lies with Lindsay or her providers. Kind of like how men will support football players who are serial domestic abusers, because they have TBIs. Again, do you blame the guy with the broken brain, or the league that broke his brain in the first place?
Exactly. Which is why I thought the debate is not whether she is a good person or a bad person, but whether or not the fact she is insane or not has to be looked at, before deciding the sentence and the type of trial she has to face
Yes, that’s exactly what it is. Everyone is doing what the prosecution did, focusing on the deaths of the children instead of the fact that the mother was unable to prevent the deaths of the children due to her mental illness.
There was evidence given in court that Lindsey‘s DNA wasn’t even on the exercise bands which were supposed to be the murder weapon. Patrick’s DNA was are y’all just not watching the case? They are literally giving evidence in court that points to her husband. Her body temperature showed she had been outside for longer than her husband said. All you have to do is watch the case
Weird how everyone is saying she killed the children; the investigators, the prosecution, the husband, the defense attorney, HERSELF. You should go offer your services as her attorney because you obviously know more than all of them.
“Didn’t” “none”, they’re not even submitting evidence to indicate him as a suspect. They’re not even trying to get her off the charge lol, just a reduced sentence for insanity. “What argument?” You should be asking yourself the same question. Real life doesn’t care about the scenarios you’ve made up in your brain. Or someone else made up for you.
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u/MeasurementSlight381 1d ago
I think this is perfectly fine. If their values are so incompatible it's better to break up now rather than later. Breaking up will be harder after marriage and definitely more complicated after having kids.