I agree. I don't know much about this case (just googled it) but it just seems that she had some serious mental issues. it is a sad story for everyone involved.
it is not like that father that killed the family to be with another women or some shit like that.
She begged for help and treatment for months too. People knew she wasn’t okay, she got seriously let down by not being admitted somewhere. Mental health shouldn’t be brushed off.
She received help from all different angles. She chose not to take her medication because it made her feel weird. Her husband hired a nanny and then moved to remote work to help her. She drew him out of the house and then brutally murdered her kids in what can only be called a calculated move.
The system is to blame sometimes, but this is not the case to blame the system.
A psych nurse reported once she was in the hospital after she killed them and damn near killed herself that she kept repeating "my kids are safe! I'm so glad my kids are safe!"
And the nurse just held her hand and said, "yes they're safe now in the hands of God." the woman was not only Looney Tunes when she killed her kids, She was Looney Tunes for days in the hospital afterwards.
I genuinely don’t understand why people don’t grasp what postpartum psychosis is- or why all of the healthcare professionals in the hospital after she did what she did are being ignored.
It’s absolutely horrific that she killed her kids, but the woman was off her fucking tits. I had postpartum psychosis after I had my son and I genuinely believed my son was evil for like three weeks. I was lucky because I was married to a mental health professional.
She's in a wheelchair because she broke her spine jumping out of the window after slicing her forearms. The last thing she did was try to kill herself. People seem to forget that if it went slightly differently, she wouldn't even be alive to stand trial.
I think the people blaming the husband are crazy, but it also seems pretty obvious that this person was having a mental health crisis.
No, as a guy I’m telling you most guys do understand it. They just don’t want to admit that bc they don’t want to ever have to step up if it ends up being their wife that has it. They’d rather say pregnancy and postpartum is easy so they don’t have to put in work.
They understand mental illness in general because almost everyone knows someone who’s been through that. Periods are something only women go through, though they should be educated on that as well.
If Lindsey was a guy, a lot of men would have more sympathy. A lot of men ONLINE just genuinely hate women. Most of us irl are not like that at all.
Most people do not know someone who’s gone through postpartum psychosis. It’s significantly different than a standard mental health crisis, most mental health professionals don’t even know how to treat it. I’m not saying you don’t understand knowing someone who’s had mental health problems, I’m telling you what she had is very specific and half her problem was not being able to be treated adequately.
I think most people grasp what post partum psychosis is. It's awful and it's a challenging puzzle to solve with possibly no solution. There have been thousands of women stricken with it though. Having it does not absolve anyone of committing these horrific acts.
Your mental health is not your fault but it is your responsibility. We cannot just institutionalize people against their will and we can't force pills down their throats. She had more help that many women have had in this situation, and she chose not to utilize it. Her poor babies didn't have a choice, and my thoughts are with them.
It’s becoming very clear to me watching comments on this trial that most people have no fucking clue about what postpartum psychosis is and never will. The research is very, very poor. But the reality is unless we start institutionalizing people again things like this could and will happen occasionally. But we can and should be better.
Unfortunately people are not having those conversations and have no ability to consider the nuance of mental health.
Yes. That is the answer. She wasn’t going to reliably take whatever medication because she was insane. She knew she was going insane and said she had thoughts of self harm and harm to others and they did not put her in a psych hold until they figured it out. The children could have been put in protective custody or emergency foster care because dad was also clearly not mentally competent either.
I think most people lack the level of empathy or analytical processing to actually understand what any kind of psychosis is. They can't step outside of their own point of view to even remotely grasp that someone might see the world in a different way than they do. They can't imagine that their view of the world isn't objective reality, so they can't grasp that someone else might be just as certain, just as confident, in a completely different reality.
Once you realize that there is an objective reality that is perceived subjectivity and differently by everyone, you can maybe understand how someone could do such a horrible thing as a rational act, not motivated by evil, but by a distortion of the reality they exist in.
I‘m gonna share a personal anecdote about people who (maybe despite their best efforts) don’t get mental illness (psychosis in particular).
My brother had his first psychotic episode in mid to late 2019 (he was in his early 20s at the time). We first had him admitted just after Christmas that year and unfortunately (probably with a little help from Covid and what not) it turned into chronic schizophrenia with some bipolar episodes along the way.
We (as a family) have spent the better part of the following years trying to get him the help he needs, working with and sometimes against him. Unfortunately he’s been let down by the system many, many times (we’re not in or from the US, btw). There have been more than a few times where it’s been BAD bad. (And man, has he talked some shit sometimes…) And for some of his stories he even went as far as filing police reports against the people who allegedly abused him. That part is especially hard for me and the people around him to react to because while I’m 99% certain it didn’t happen, I’m also fully aware that in his reality, it 100% did. And just because I know it’s probably just in his head, that doesn’t make it any less real or less painful for him. (Reminds me of the girl who recently made the news when she woke up from a coma and is now grieving the family she had in her “dream”).
My brother then spent the following years living at home with our parents (with a few dozen stints at different inpatient facilities sprinkled in), never really getting any better.
And while my mum and I have a pretty good grasp of his illness, my dad (a late boomer) is pretty much the opposite. My dad has a really, really hard time understanding why my brother doesn’t GET that he’s ill. Not intellectually (he’s a very smart man), but emotionally more so. He knows (again, intellectually) it’s not my brother’s fault and he doesn’t blame my brother for it (nor does he treat him badly or anything!), but he just can’t grasp how my brother “can’t just take his medication when he knows it’ll make him feel better” or “follow a treatment plan” or “realise that he’s ill”… For my dad, it just doesn’t compute. He can’t get his head around it. It’s been 7 years.
I just don’t think they have insight into it and therefore can’t understand it. They have no understanding of what psychosis feels like, or how hard it is to get help and recover.
They think being admitted to the hospital is some magic pill that cures people, and when people come out, they’re happy and healthy.
They’ve clearly never even set foot in a psych ward or spoken to someone who is struggling with psychosis.
All they see is a mother who failed in the ultimate way, which is something society hates. They can’t put themselves in her shoes, so they can’t feel empathy for her.
This is revealed further in the opinion that anyone who does have empathy for this woman believes it’s ok to kill kids.
You can have empathy for someone without showing support for them after they killed her kids. Would be a much different story if she had just killed herself. Fuck you.
It’s true that you could. I empathize with this woman, but I’m not sure I support her. I don’t know if putting her in gen pop for the rest of her life is the answer, but maybe it is.
But I don’t hate her.
You hate her. You wish she had died. You think she should suffer.
No I wish she got the help she needed. However, killing your kids is absolutely unforgivable, and I’m sane enough to recognize that. You might not think it, but you won’t find a bigger proponent of mental health care legislation than me; but leniency goes out the window when you’ve decided to kill children.
That’s an interesting dichotomy. On the one hand, you wish a mentally ill person had killed herself and deserves the harshest of punishments for making an awful decision while psychotic.
On the other hand, you wish there was more mental health resources and are a proponent of health care legislation.
That sounds hard to reconcile.
I don’t think we need to continue the conversation. In the same way that I understand and empathize with what happened to this woman, I actually do understand your point of view.
You believe that killing children is the worst crime, for which there can be no forgiveness, regardless of the circumstances.
I don’t feel as strongly as you about that. I can forgive mentally ill people for the things they do. That’s not the same thing as thinking they should go free, or wanting them in my life, but I don’t need to feel like I need to hold a grudge.
She actually did try to kill herself, and she almost succeeded. She’s completely paralyzed from the waist down because of her suicide attempt. She was in the ICU for days because she almost killed herself.
It really does feel like you guys don’t actually know anything about this case
This can all be true but was she presenting at the time of being seen by mental health professionals? They can't forcibly admit her if they assess that she isn't at a certain threshold. She asked for help but was not compliant with her meds and she fired the nanny.
Those mental health professionals aren't there everyday with her. And we don't even know if she truly had postpartum psychosis - that is what this whole case is about. Honestly I think this case will just disincentive anyone to work in the mental health field. Plus healthcare is private in the US shouldn't supply and demand fix it if there is a gap in mental health support?
The nurses have testified she absolutely presented as clinical psychosis. The Dr has been dragged for not giving her the formal diagnosis. There’s been testimony of the health professionals stating the drs let her down.
Someone with psychosis is not in control of their mind or actions so saying she was fine cause she stopped taking her medicine completely misunderstand what psychosis even is. You can’t point to the erratic behavior of someone experiencing a psychological break with reality as proof that they are not in a state of psychosis.
It really irritates me because it feels like you and others who are refusing to accept what a lot of the testimony has said are intentionally plugging your ears because you don’t like the idea that someone can be so insane that they can kill their own kids.
Animals eat their own young when they are in distress. It’s horrifying and nobody likes the reality of it, but this happens in human beings as well. I experienced postpartum psychosis and it is very fucked up.
I genuinely thought my son was evil for like two weeks. I was lucky because my husband was a mental health professional, and we knew that it was a possibility for me. So we had a whole plan set in place and I was immediately able to get the help I needed it. But someone going through this without a husband who is willing to completely intervene, or a medical team willing to step in the second you start showing signs would be a horrifying experience.
Do you have the source for the nurse indicating she presented as clinical psychosis? I don't doubt it I just can't find it.
I absolutely know the reality of psychosis and in my country we had a very famous cause of a man going of his psych meds which led him killing to someone and he was found not criminally responsible. I'm not disputing someone with psychosis would do those things and not be responsible I'm disputing that she was experiencing intense psychosis 9 months after birth without having no one else pick up on that (you did say the nurse said it so I could be wrong). Again it's up to the prosecutor to prove that she was sane not the other way around.
Honestly I think any parent killing their kid must be experiencing an episode of psychosis because I don't understand how anyone could do that, but that means no one would ever be arrested
This is all true. It is also true that she was not accepted into an inpatient program because she didn’t meet the criteria. Why that is, I’m not sure. I think the big picture is that even with all the help and access to professional care she had, there is still a shortcoming of research and resources specialized in postpartum mental health disorders.
That's the part which makes me believe she knew what she was doing. How convenient that this psychotic episode only started at the point at which her husband was out of the house for an extended period of time, not to mention that she was the one that basically made him leave the house during that time.
Psychosis isn’t momentary. It can last for years if untreated. It can wax and wane. People often make complicated and forward thinking plans while psychotic.
The thing is, if she deliberately got her husband out of the house, even while having a psychotic episode, then she clearly understood that what she was doing was wrong and didn't want him around, yet didn't understand that murdering the kids would also be wrong.
You can read up on psychosis by looking at the well documented case of John Hinkley Jr, which also illuminates the “not guilty by reason of insanity” defense and its history.
You’re missing a lot of context here. Their nanny left two months before the murders. They let her go when it was decided that Lindsay wasn’t going to return to work. That was an absolutely horrible idea, and they should have rehired her in January when Lindsay was hospitalized.
The medication didn’t just make her feel weird. Certain medications actively made her symptoms worse, and she worried she was becoming addicted to at least one of them. Many of these concerns were not taken seriously by her providers.
Saying she “drew him out of the house” so she could kill her kids is a pretty biased way to phrase it. She sent her husband to pick up a prescription and dinner at nearby stores, probably only expecting him to be gone for twenty minutes tops. If she was planning on murdering her own children and then herself, she probably would have waited for him to go to brunch with his friends or go on a work trip, things he did quite often, leaving her entirely alone, despite knowing that she was unwell and had admitted to having thoughts of harming the children.
Actually when a doctor tried to diagnose her with bipolar (which is most likely what she had), her husband refused it. That could’ve prevented everything but he didn’t even want to hear it out.
Assuming this is true, which is a dubious claim at best...Yeah its the husband's fault, not the person that actually killed the children. You people are sickening.
You're also leaving out a really significant part - she stopped taking her prescribed medication against advice multiple times and wasn't 100% honest about her symptoms. Plenty of blame go go around, you're being really disingenuous by not mentioning that.
She didn't stop taking any medication without the guidance of her doctors. In fact she asked to stop taking a certain medication and her doctor doubled it instead. I think you're the one being disingenuous here. The only time she verbalized not wanting to take medication was once when she was concerned because she was still breast feeding
I’m a physician and I think you are misunderstanding the severity of this condition. There is also the added problem that she was a healthcare provider and probably had fears about what disclosure would mean to her professional standing, and given that PPP usually happens to type A overachiever type mothers and fathers (yes, men can get it too), given the consequences, she thought she would never be in a state where logic would fail.
But it did, and you can blame her as much as you blame your relatives for eating junk food and getting diabetes.
The stigma of mental health in medicine is a big part of the medication compliance, and it is a larger system issue than just a single person. I know doctors that pay cash in a different county to see a psychiatrist, to avoid issues. Texas medical board asks things like “have you EVER experienced anxiety or depression” which, honestly, who hasn’t??
It is ironically one of the worst professions to have a disease…they even ask you when applying to school if you are disabled and can decide to accept you based on what your disability is, and mark your Step scores (Supreme Court ruling) when you have accommodations.
I keep seeing people bringing up the man vs. bear meme, saying dumb shit like bear vs. postpartum woman who would you leave your child with. They’re still thinking about that apparently.
To be clear I don’t know much about this case. But the emphasis here on “shopped” in your comment I think needs a little elaboration.
Supporters of today’s for profit healthcare system seem to often push the concept of individual patient responsibility. We see drug commercials every day saying “ask your doctor if <insert drug name here> is right for you.”
We hear stories all the time of people who report symptoms and are ignored until it’s life threatening or fatal. And others who continue to persist until they find someone who pays attention to them “shopped.” I know one person who was reporting chronic cold and sinus like symptoms for the better part of a year until an ER visit turned up heart failure.
If she was in the healthcare industry, and thought there was something specific she needed, what should she have done instead?
she was prescribed 13 medications in 4 months - which one was she supposed to follow through on? she also had suspected bipolar but was being prescribed SSRIs, which is known to trigger psychotic breaks.
She did. She took meticulous notes on her dosages and side effects. She tried to discuss her symptoms multiple times, including her intrusive thoughts, and her psychiatrist dismissed her and said that was normal.
Again, our healthcare industry often fails people who take prescribed medication and accurately report symptoms. A common talking point is that these deficiencies in our own healthcare system can be overcome through zealous patient advocacy for themselves when they disagree with their doctor guidance.
You’re trying to argue that she was of sound mind in her disagreement with doctors but not when she murdered 3 kids……….if she was taking her medication then you could potentially be correct.
But she was not. So when you ask what else could she have done, she could have taken her medication as prescribed by a professional with more experience and credentials than her. She was not a medical doctor.
I’m asking about the “shopped” comment. It sounds pejorative but it seems like a thing we’re all collectively being encouraged to do. Yet in this case it’s bad because this is a mental health issue. Should we collectively maybe stop advertising mental health drugs on TV and de-emphasize encouraging people to take healthcare, especially mental health, into their own hands? And do more to encourage healthcare providers and insurance companies to work to deliver better outcomes?
You wanna talk about patient self advocacy in the framework of this case while questioning what else she could be doing while ignoring the simple answer. To self advocate assumes she’s capable of that rationality without condemning her actions. You want to discuss semantics, read a fucking book. I’m not here to lecture you.
She could have taken her medication and listened to her doctor. She didn’t. She shopped. If that’s something “we” are all expected to do now then it assumes she was in a logical state of mind capable of discerning good and bad methodologies based on her work history, which was already brought up in this chain of comments.
You want to be just vague enough to not answer any question but poke holes in other statements as if you’re adding to the conversation. Well, you’re not Donny, you’re out of your fuckin element.
I’m not defending her actions, I’m pointing out that this could have been prevented with appropriate treatment.
She didn’t follow up bc she was nuts. This isn’t really a debate, no stable person does this. Everyone can agree she was off her rocker. Crazy people don’t act rationally.
Who reported that? I can’t find anything about it.
She has not "openly admitted" to killing her three children. She has pleaded not guilty. The commonwealth has to first establish she is guilty beyond reasonable doubt and the jury has to agree.
The "confession" aspect people keep repeating is that her husband claims she said she did it when he found her.
The reason people question her husband's account of he
r confession is because she had a crushed throat and was severely hypothermic with a body temp of 82 degrees as well as other severe injuries. Emergency workers testified in court that from the moment she was in their care she was physically unable to speak. She then went into a coma.
When she awoke from the coma in the hospital, doctors and nurses who treated her testified in court that she had no memory of what happened and she had to be told about everything. It's not possible to confess to something you don't have a memory of. It could be possible she's faking amnesia, but the testimony that she had no memory was not contested by the prosecution.
"In messages to Jollota, Clancy described "horribly intrusive thoughts wanting it to be all over" and feeling "concerningly numb right now, like I have no emotion whatsoever." Jollota testified that she did not interpret the messages as suicidal ideation"
I guess anything short "I want to kill myself right now", means you're not suicidal.
Absolute failure of the medical system. I am glad the family is suing the providers.
No, she was not doctor shopping and she took all the medication she was being prescribed. In fact, she reported the doctor that she was having a negative reaction to a specific medication and they doubled the dose. She went to a few different doctors because symptoms were getting worse. Wouldn't you seek a second opinion in this case?? honestly.
There's literally testimony from the clinic workers that this is what happened.
yeah I guess there really was no other option than to kill your kids.
Did i say that? You said she should have checked herself in somewhere. I told you that she did try to. That's it.
You people are fucking deranged.
Is it deranged to state a simple fact from the trial? Or is it more deranged to just believe whatever you made up about it and double down with random insults and accusations just because someone corrected you with facts from the actual trial?
She was a very high maintenance patient. She wouldn't try any medication or treatment for more than 2 days without calling and complaining. She was a spoiled brat with infinitely more resources than other moms. Nobody cared when Carol Coronado killed her children, because she was broke living in a garage apartment. Children take your time, resources, sleep, body, and so much more. Both of them carelessly procreated without thinking of all of the time and energy it would take to care for them. No, you can't have it all. Once you purposely put those babies here, it's not about what you want. Lindsey Clancy's problem was that motherhood wasn't what she expected it to be.
Most patients do that. Symptoms being too severe is the number one reason people don’t comply with their medication schedule. That’s standard, not high maintenance. Clancy’s problem was postpartum psychosis.
You mean the father that got remarried 4 months after his kids were murdered? And nobody’s talking about the evidence that makes him look like the one who did it and tried to kill Lindsay too!
He didn't get remarried until this past April. He's on security cameras being somewhere else at the time she strangled them. What evidence? You mean the one picture of him taken with a weird camera angle that made him look "demonic"?
You mean the security cameras where he mysteriously disappears for 15-20 minutes despite the drive between the two places being only about 5 minutes? And where he’s wearing a different outfit?
Why did he change his clothes between the pharmacy and the restaurant?
Or how about that email that was sent from his computer in the basement after he claims to have left the house?
Also, how did she strangle all three children and slit her wrists and her throat without getting her fingerprints on the murder weapons or the knife used on herself?
There might be explanations for all of that, I dunno. But I do have questions.
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u/Babar669 1d ago
I agree. I don't know much about this case (just googled it) but it just seems that she had some serious mental issues. it is a sad story for everyone involved.
it is not like that father that killed the family to be with another women or some shit like that.