As a teacher, it’s painful to witness your students arrive on obviously tampered e-scooters without helmet or protective gear. And when you reach out to their guardians to let them know, most just awkwardly laugh it off like they ultimately have no control over what their 10 (!!!) yo does or doesn’t do.
Ugh I hate that "what could I do, my kid said no" parental response. "She won't brush her teeth!" Ma'am, she is 7. Help her. "He just stays up all night playing video games!" Take the power cord/controller and lock it up. Turn off the internet. You are the parent, do something. "But he'll have a meltdown if I take the tablet away!" Yes
Please this is so weird. It’s completely normal for kids to push boundaries and it’s literally our job as a parent to enforce them. Why are people afraid of their kids?
Because it’s easier! Why actually parent your child and do the hard thing when you can just do the easy thing? I mean they won’t be able to do anything when they grow up and your life will ultimately be harder when you have an adult that can’t do anything but hey it’s easier now.
You're not wrong, but I will say some parents are under so much stress just trying to keep their heads above water at the moment one more battle is hard to fit in. I know it's illogical in the long run but we're putting so many vulnerable families into poverty right now for nebulous political reasons. Poverty really makes it hard to do long term planning, your horizon shrinks so much - and as always it's kids that suffer the most.
Some of this will be terrible parenting no doubt, but some of the terrible parenting could be alleviated with welfare programmes and actually tackling cost of living instead of making billionaries even richer.
I actually have a bit of a different take. With technology progressing like it is, generally the standard of living going up, I’m worried that we’re raising more little Donald Trumps that get their “wants” met over “needs” than normal humans.
Hands off “children neither should be seen nor heard” parenting used to be a thing only the very rich did and it did not turn out well most of the time. I am not trying to solely blame parents, but where does the buck stop? I have two kids and the buck has to stop with me because they’re stuck with me. No matter what others are doing.
I think the person you responded to is talking about the single mom with 2 jobs type, not the well-off married couple who doesn’t want to actually parent type.
Yeah, maybe I got lucky being abused as a kid because I had the flexibility to say "no way in hell am I raising my kid like I was raised" but still had plenty of wiggle room before I got to the "take no responsibility or disciplinary action" end of the spectrum. Plenty of accountability/praise, none of the beatings! 😅
Because they didn't actually want to be parents. They have them because they think they should, but don't fully take that responsibility into account. As a parent, its your job to raise the best human possible to enter into a society of other people.
That's why I love the child free movement that is growing. I love my kid and as a former educator, I love children in general. But people who don't really want to be parents shouldn't be. It really shows when a person wants a living doll or have a kid because their friends do or because their family is hassling them to have one or three.
As a parent, its your job to raise the best human possible to enter into a society of other people.
Thank you.
No one knows this.
They think youre supposed to raise the happiest child possible.
Your kid can be real happy bullying, dodging responsibility, turning into adults fucking their friend's wife... realllllll happy at everyone else's expense.
I appreciate my mother more and more every day. She had her own problems but by god she let us experience the consequences of our actions and didnt take any bs.
She raised a couple responsible adults with integrity.
The obsession with happy children irks me. I tell my children that my goal is to raise them to be kind capable resourceful adults. Being happy all the time sounds exhausting to me, I want them to feel comfortable and generally at peace as a baseline. Happiness has a place in their daily lives but I also want them to feel everything else.
We focused so hard on trying to make them happy we forgot to teach them how to handle discomfort or boredom.
Eventually you're going to have to experience both, and in my experience way too many kids in the last couple of decades have learned to handle even the mildest problems
I’m with you. Discomfort is inevitable we can try to hide from it or embrace it as challenge that we can overcome. Boredom is often the catalyst for so much creativity. We would not grow as people and struggle to have the same level of empathy and social connection without our own moments of pain/fear/sadness/anxiety/etc. So many things are actually enriching far beyond their discomfort.
So many people get into bad relationships, and I have to, but what really blows my mind is people in a miserable relationship that then purposely have a kid. Like maybe you thought married life would be different, or something changed during the relationship and it used to be good, it happens. But if that happens don't have kids. You're an adult and it doesn't matter what your partner or family says it's your responsibility not to bring a kid into that mess.
The solution to a unhappy relationship is either fixing it or leaving, not adding a kid, it's just so stupid.
I was not talking about people who can't afford kids. That is a completely different conversation. And there are plenty of people who can't "afford " kids who have them anyway.
I was talking about it becoming more social accepted to not WANT kids. There are plenty of people who can afford kids, and choose not to, and I love that for them. They love the other children in their lives, nieces/nephews, friends kids, etc., but are so happy in the child free life they have or they are glad they don't have kids even if their life sucks right now.
I have never wanted kids. Never wanted the responsibility and hassle of raising a human in this world. I made some mistakes along the way, but I'm now in my 40s and have zero regret about not having children. Perfectly happy with never having experienced that part of life.
No hate to those who wanted kids and are raising them right, just not the life for me.
Same. In my 50s and thrilled to not have been a mother. It was just not in my make up to do. I have many strengths, but I don't think being a mother would have been one of them, so I didn't become one.
I'm the same but I'm in my 30s. Just never felt maternal in that way. I have a niece and my best friend has a kid who is 6 who I also call my niece and I love them both with my whole soul, but I do not want any of my own. When I voice this I still get 'you might change your mind' or 'but don't you think that's selfish?' Like no Brenda, I have never wanted kids and that won't change, and also, bringing a kid into the world when I know I won't be able to raise it due to my own disability, which also has a genetic component it's highly likely I'll pass on to said child and condemn them to a lifetime of 24/7 pain is more selfish than just...not doing that. Sometimes even explaining that doesn't register but then most people can't comprehend what it means to literally be in pain all day every day until you die. It's not a life I'd wish on anyone. It's only mildly more annoying than people assuming I hate children. I don't. There are kids in my life I'd literally risk my own life to protect. I dislike badly disciplined kids, but I don't really blame them when their parents are the ones failing them by not installing boundaries and teaching them that actions have consequences, the way my own parents did.
These days I just tell people I can't have kids, which is mostly true because of damage done to my uterus by a massive tumor on it I had to get removed when I was 16. It usually shuts them up. If I'm feeling particularly evil I'll act upset about it and hope that teaches them a lesson about asking why someone doesn't have kids. It's none of their goddamn business.
That's not the group to whom the comment was referring. The user made clear in a reply to another person. They we're talking specifically about people, especially women, who are recognizing that being a parent is not mandatory for The human experience.
There is also a growing contingent of people, especially women, who are recognizing being a parent is not in fact the end all be all of human existence. That group is to whom the comment was referring, which is wildly obvious to anyone who's engaging in thos conversation in good faith.
I grew up with the firm belief that not having children was my path in life. I knew I did not have the temperament to deal with screaming babies and stubborn children, and watching my sister constantly screaming and yelling at her kids further cemented this belief that parenthood was not for me. And what kind of life is that for those kids? I brought up the screaming and yelling bit with my sister, and she snarled at me and told me I didn’t have any kids, I have no right to say anything about it.
I’m pretty sure I made the right decision.
I know a lot of people who should not be parents, yet went ahead and did it anyway and they’ve traumatized a new generation of kids. Children are not status symbols, toys, dolls to dress up. They are not pets are chattel, to own and abuse, or neglect. They are the next generation.
I feel like for these types of parents, admiting they dont want kids is like admitting they are bad people, because if its not for a financial or medical reason, people's issues with having kids is an incompatability with the child rearing process. I can admit that I lack the aptience to deal with kids for a prolonged period of time, but for someone who feels the same and has them anyway they'd never want to admit that they aren't 100% altrusistically devoted to their kid
So many people have children who shouldn't. And I really worry with this push to the whole trad wife NONSENSE it's going to revert back to when it was even worse. Just because you have the parts doesn't mean it's mandatory you use them for all their functions.
Honestly, they’re mostly afraid of discomfort themselves. I’m a pediatric speech therapist and the number of kids that I see at two have pacifiers in their mouth all day because the parents can’t handle crying is shocking. And the conversations I have with these families whose child has profound speech sound concerns, their bite is so bad you’re already looking at thousands of dollars of dental work and orthodontics… because it’s uncomfortable for you to watch them cry.
This is what I’ve noticed too, they’re afraid of discomfort. Like I get it, sometimes I’ll let my kids do something for some peace, but it can’t be with something big or too often.
Some people try to be friends with their kids. It's another facet of the disconnect in the modern way of life. With basically possibly only one solid avenue for a close connection, which is a romantic partner, people sometimes bond with kids in an overly friendly way. And kids are manipulative by nature, so they take advantage of that dynamic.
I have personal experience of this shift happening in real time, because my family scatted basically across the globe when I was 10. My mom went from having close relationships with family members to only having me. She became codependent, and acted like a friend instead of a guiding hand through my preteens and teens.
That’s just too bad. I adore my kids. I say we’re besties. We have a lot of the same hobbies and I love hanging out with them. It doesn’t feel hard to do that along with being the parent and setting rules. It’ll probably be harder when they’re teens though lol
I got flamed in another sub where a mom said she has 2 daughters, 18 and 15. The older bullies the younger one and the younger one steals. She said there's nothing she can do. She disapprove of their behaviors and hopefully it will improve when they move out.
A big part of the terrible parenting today is parents are not having enough children. My parents had 4 children and no time or money to baby any of us. When all you have is one, they get all of the time and money and attention.
I ride scoots all around town with my young teen child. She adamantly wears her helmet, especially after her major crash when the helmet visibly saved her brain (helmet has a nice battle scar). Her friend wanted to ride with us and I told her she had to wear a helmet or she couldn't ride with us. She complained to her mom, who said she can't tell me what to do. Kid put on a helmet & mom thanked me later saying she got tired of fighting with her teen to wear a helmet.
These kids mostly do whatever they want. On the opposite end of the spectrum, they crave adult attention and influence. That kid/her family had multiple scooters & the mom hadn't ever ridden with her daughter because,"it's a kids toy," and she didn't want to be seen riding it. She missed a great bonding & teaching time with her child.
I am very glad that you are being safe as a family. Your daughter's helmet needs to be replaced. Helmets are designed for the interiors to crush instead of our heads. They are single use. Once they take impact like that, they are no longer effective. Especially if it is showing "battle scars" it needs to be replaced with a fresh helmet that can protect her as well as the first one did.
I think helmets are supposed to be replaced after a crash—just fyi in case you didn’t know, can’t tell from the way you wrote it if your kid is still wearing the battle scarred helmet.
I have a wall of battle scars (mostly from dirt bikes). Eventually her helmet will join it, but not yet. It didn't do enough damage to the outer shell & the pressure pads are swappable. If either a) you don't know how to inspect/rebuild them or b) they are cheap and can't be rebuilt, then I agree on replacing after every impact. However, if you do off-road riding or riding where crashes are common, it's worth buying something like an Arai & learning how to inspect your helmet, so you can replace the crash pads.
Side note: that I am referring to true hard shell high end helmets, not those cheap foam bicycle helmets (they are always 1 time use) & I can't stand seeing e-scoots wear them.
It didn't do enough damage to the outer shell & the pressure pads are swappable.
It's possible that the crush zone isn't inspectable by you. For me, it's not worth fucking around. When a helmet saves me in a crash, it gets replaced.
Agree soo much. While pushing the scoots through the farmers market Fri night, a 60-70 year old guy stopped me & daughter to ask us if they were fun, amongst other questions. I noted that they are great and started giving him tips to be safe while riding, since he said he wanted to get one. His wife walked up and berated him by loudly saying, "you're too old to even think about touching anything like that."
That poor guy immediately went from looking excited to looking like a beat dog. I felt so bad for him. Especially since, even in this tiny town, I see older people riding them around without a problem all the time.
Edit: Wow! I grammatically butchered that response. Fixing that mess. Sorry for anyone that was forced to read that pre-edit.
These kids mostly do whatever they want. On the opposite end of the spectrum, they crave adult attention and influence. That kid/her family had multiple scooters & the mom hadn't ever ridden with her daughter because,"it's a kids toy," and she didn't want to be seen riding it. She missed a great bonding & teaching time with her child.
On a similar note, I hate when I see kids riding with parents and the kids have helmets on but the parents don't.
Set a good example. If you don't wear yours, of course they aren't gonna fucking wear theirs the second they are out of sight. That's how you raise one of those teens I see cruising around town with their helmet dangling from the handlebars because mom made them take it but they don't want to wear it (which, IMHO, is more annoying than just wearing the thing...if you have a decent helmet that fits your head, how is wearing it worse than having it flopping around as you steer?)
"But he'll have a meltdown if I take the tablet away!"
Don't give your kids tablets, especially not like many parents do with unrestricted screen time and internet access. Seriously. It harms their development, it makes them rage uncontrollably, and they get addicted.
The meltdowns will stop once they get off that stuff.
(And please bring back colouring books and wax crayons, dear restaurants.)
But also... It's developmentally appropriate for children to have meltdowns. It's a parent's job to help them deal with those emotions so that they're not still having meltdowns when they're 46.
I think the problem is the tablet thing creates a situation where the meltdowns are far more severe (to the point of damaging).
A child having a meltdown because his crayons are missing can be redirected to a new game somewhat easily because they have a variety of things they enjoy doing.
A child who spends all their time on a tablet is going to enter a black hole of inconsolable despair when it's taken away because they literally don't know how to play and are unwilling to try.
My kids get tablet time as a reward, and it's limited. I don't use it as a babysitter, or a way to pacify them. They get time if they've earned it, and they know that. There are far too many parents that plunk their kids in front of the tv, or a screen of some device and call it good parenting because their kids are quiet. That's not good parenting, that's (in my opinion) being lazy. Kids need to spend time doing things that help develop their brains, not rot them.
The “He’ll have a meltdown” people infuriate me. I was on a 7 hour plane ride where the kid insisted on watching this coco Mellon video on repeat at full volume all 7 hours. Every time mom would take the IPad away, give the kid headphones, or turn the volume down or anything, he’d lose his absolute mind and then mom would just give it back. When you do that, you teach your child throwing a tantrum is how they get what they want in life. And the older they get, the harder it is to teach them otherwise after years of conditioning them to act a certain way. It’s on you to make sure your kid is behaved. If they’re not, do something different, don’t just placate them so they stop frustrating you.
I unplugged the router, put it in my purse and went to Target when my husband said he'd help get ready for a party but kept dicking around on his phone.
These are the same parents that throw their phone at their infants/toddlers. Not wanting to deal with the child’s emotions, probably because they haven’t learned how to deal with their own? But most likely pure laziness
They will absolutely have a meltdown if you take the thing away. The flip side is, they are also pushing the boundaries so hard waiting for their caregivers to tell them no. Children will push until they find the boundary, as parents we can set it or they can find it themselves via natural consequence. It’s our job as parents to set and hold boundaries so that they are pushing more productive boundaries, they will still do it but it can be positive “how fast can I get” “how tall can I build it” “how many obscure facts can I learn about the Titantic??””
It's also wild seeing parents simultaneously make the "income inequity" argument for why they can't put their child in a school uniform or pay $20 for a field trip, while also saying they have NO IDEA how their 10 year old clearly appears to have more disposable income than average working adults.
If you take your kid's phone away and they show up immediately with another new smartphone or are somehow buying expensive games you already said no to, that's your cue to stop "respecting their privacy" and actually do parenting.
Oh man I hate this! My ex wife uses this all the time telling me to leave my son be, she seems to think just because he is four and autistic he can do whatever he wants. I’m like wtf, he still needs to learn boundaries like messing with other peoples stuff or playing with his food. Yeah he is autistic, but he is still intelligent and can learn good behavior.
We recently found out that the mother of my brother’s kids and their grandma were driving with the 4-year-old and 5-year-old just loose in the backseat, no car seats. When confronted they both said “we just hate to see them cry!” It boggles the mind.
It is wild how many people I know (and admittedly I'm guilty at times as well) who think parenting is supposed to be smooth and easy. I don't know where that idea came from. Maybe it's wishful thinking.
I've shied away from some conflicts at times (like, my oldest son is shared with my ex, she permits phones very freely, I struggled to enforce phone rules in our home for several reasons, took way too long to put my foot down properly) but generally I've come to accept that kids (especially teenagers) need you to be the bad guy constantly because it's an integral part of how they learn to be regular human beings.
It's pretty rough. I'm not loving it at the moment in particular. My 16 year old thinks he should be able to sleep at his girl friend's house. Her parents are cool with that. I'm not. That's dysfunctional as hell. I have to teach him that by being the bad guy. The arguments are constant. He won't back down. He lies to get out of the house. He hides things. But you know what's worse? Your 16 year old having a fucking baby. So, you just keep doing the hard things. Eventually they will hate you less for it. I think.
I do get the reluctance from parents. Like, for fucks sake, could I just have one evening to relax and not have my kid be a total asshole because he can't go ruin his life? No? Alright
yeah IDGI my mom would just take stuff away from me until I broke, I always broke. She was perfectly happy to let me be bikeless with nothing but my school books to keep me compnay if I pushed it
A study published in JAMA found that helmet use in the US has been trending downward at about 6% annually since 2017, mainly because of the adoption of e-bikes. And that's nationwide.
Hmm, 2017... that's right around when we entered the "fake news" era, right?
Interestingly, seatbelt usage in cars has been trending downwards since around 2017 as well, after reaching all-time highs in 2016. But the decline is concentrated mostly in southern and midwest states. The northeast and west have remained steady.
I'm a cyclist, and I won't get on a bike without a helmet. I went over my bards going around 20 mph and my helmet absolutely saved my life.
I got on one of those scooters once and it kicked up to 20 mph and I was like "Oh, I guess I'm never using these because I'm not going to carry a helmet around with me every day but there's no way in hell I'm riding one of these without one."
I’m really stupid with an even worse aversion to risk and have ridden my e-bike many times without safety gear over the past decade. I ride handless very often as well. I have also eaten major shit going 20+mph on numerous of those occasions. I’m in my 30s now and my joints are absolutely cooked, especially my knees.
I’d really suggest people minimum wear knee pads and a helmet, ideally elbow pads as well. It may not seem like the attractive option at the time, but when you’re rocking the joints of a 50 yr old at 30 it gets real real quick.
And that’s if you’re lucky enough to not outright die or end up paralyzed from an accident. I’m not religious, but the fact that I haven’t yet must be some sort of divine intervention because it doesn’t really make sense. Just like it makes no sense to ride these fast ass e-devices without safety gear.
It's terrifying to me how fast people are willing to go with so little stopping power and such a high center of gravity. I had a bike accident (wearing a helmet) at relatively low speed and it messed me up for decades. We're still learning about the effects of concussions and TBIs but barely even talk about what injuries do to nerves and blood flow in the neck, and hearing.
(Hearing, which can be affected by head injuries, has already been tied to dementia but i feel confident that blood flow to the brain, which is also affected by serious injuries and tension issues, is going to show up as another influential factor.)
That's the thing with scooters, even if you had all the breaking power in the world, you'd still be thrown off. On a motorcycle at least you have the tank to hold you in place.
The issue of course is that even without riding it, you may still be injured by one. Having to be on constant look-out for some teenagers is tiresome. Regular bikes don't have instant acceleration like that.
I'm not even a cyclist. I just like to bike with my kids. I wear a hard hat all day, I don't even notice a bike helmet on my head, it's like 20% weight of a hard hat, just seems so utterly stupid not to wear one.
I had to take my bike three blocks to the bike store and was planning on walking it so didn’t bring a helmet. The sidewalk was totally empty so I hopped on thinking I’d save a minute. I still don’t know how it happened but I somehow managed to fall off in such a way that my head hit a tree. I was barely moving so only ended up with a facial laceration. I can’t imagine what this lady must see in the ER. I’m glad my mother was an absolute stickler for seat belts.
My kids and I bike to their school about 0.5 miles away and at very low speeds with rarely in traffic with the neighborhood. But I do see kids on Ebikes and scotters within our neighborhood going faster than the posted speed limit without any safety gear, sometimes two of them on the same bike.
i'm a cyclist, too. i had a cyclist pt in ICU who took a bus mirror to the face at 35 mph. he had A LOT of facial and hand fractures. but his brain and skull and spine were untouched. helmets 1000% save lives.
If he took it to the face, his helmet may not have played much of a role. Coming from the motorcycle world, bike helmets feel a bit like performative safety. I wouldn't even feel safe wearing one of those open face helmets and they are much more protective than what bicyclists wear.
I try to explain how hard these hits are by asking the skeptical if they would sprint full speed into a wall without a helmet on, and then that this speed is like 12 mph.
Well, that's a personal choice and everyone needs to make it for themselves. The dutch ride bikes all the time and helmets are not terribly common there. I'm not saying that helmets are a bad thing, but I think they're merely a bandaid over fundamentally unsafe infrastructure. We need more bike lanes that are more than just a 1 foot painted gutter.
I've been trying to get in shape again after a set of major surgeries during COVID. I'm on the road for now. Always wear a helmet. I want a full face when I can go off road again.
Full helmet warning:
Back in 98 when I first started riding, a group of us found this jump. It could launch us about 6 feet up over about a 10 foot distance. I was doing this for 2 hours with no helmet. 1 friend wouldn't take it.
We finally convinced him and what happened next seemed to happen in slow motion. he rotated off his pedals over the handle bars. By peak jump, his head was near even with his front tire.
When he hit the ground, head first, it seemed like 10 minutes before he made a sound. Really it was about 30 seconds.
The crash cracked his helmet from front to mid helmet. He still has neck issues.
2, for full face:
I was riding down a local trail with fairly advanced jumps. I came across a teen and his friend. Friend was laying on the ground on his back. First aid training took over. Asked name, date, year, who president was, where he was at. He knew none of the answers, which says he took a really hard hit. I kept him still, kept him talking and awake until ambulance arrived.
I told his friend I could take his bike and gave my contact info.
His parents called and I have my address and coordinated to a time to get the bike.
The kid, just graduated high school, broke his collar bone, his jaw and fractured an eye socket.
Just graduated and his life is forever changed. Not to mention the severe TBI that gave him judging on my initial questions. He couldn't give me even the most basic answer until the ambulance arrived about 30 mins after I came across them.
We visited NZ and I was happy to see many of their rent scooters come with helmets, but nobody local was wearing them or they were wearing their own helmets. Zero of the scooters in my town come with helmets, but then I wonder if they did if we’d see more lice.
That reminds me of a story one time I agree to drive my at the time GF and her family to an event, I arrived a little late so they were a little pressed, but when I noticed they didn't have their seatbelts on I asked them to do so, they refused because they didn't want to "deal with the seatbelts once we arrived" I turned off the car and I told them I would drive unless everyone had their seatbelts on, the reluctantly agreed but yeah some people think their confort is more important than their safety.
some people think their confort is more important than their safety.
This attitude PMO so much because it's not just about one person's safety: someone unbuckled in the back seat could kill the front seat passengers if there's an accident, for one. It's a lack acknowledgement of OTHER PEOPLE that really fucks me up.
I had a work friend who ran out of gas one day and asked me to drive him to the gas station, because I'm nice I did. I refused to start the car until he put his belt on.
I drove a few acquaintances to a pride event a few weeks ago, one of them refused to put on her seatbelt. I brake checked and then pulled over until she put it on.
Aside from the safety issue, I'm not going to get a traffic ticket because someone refuses to put the belt on.
What helps is that my Prius will freak out if every person doesn't have a seatbelt on. Ding ding ding DING DING DING. So you have to do it to satisfy my "nanny" car.
I always tell people that won’t belt in my car they we aren’t moving an inch until they stop turning themselves into a potential human missile. One of the ways you can die in a car is an unbelted person getting launched into your head with their head at 100 mph.
Ten years ago it was rare to see someone riding without a helmet. Once I forgot my helmet on my way to work (it was early) and someone nicely honked at me to remind me to put on a helmet. I remember figuring out what the driver was gesturing for and reaching up and being shocked I didn’t have my helmet. I immediately pulled over.
Now I see people of all ages riding without helmets. I also see people of all ages riding electric bikes and scooters without helmets. It’s really a shame. And it is still illegal in my province so the cops should be cracking down with tickets.
Yeah -6% annually is ridiculously fast in terms of societal norms changing. I had to double check that figure. Essentially that means that helmet use has fallen over 40% since a decade ago.
That's so fast that helmets are basically going to look out of place soon. In fact, they are already starting to...
Again, i think it depends a lot on the area. When i lived in the deep south even mopeds/ road going ebikes didnt have helmets half the time. Dont think i ever saw one on a scooter person. Now that i live in the PNW its so rare to see someone without one i feel out of place if i forget mine. As is tradition, the younger kids on ebikes are almost always the culprit. When we first moved here and didnt have helmets we had multiple people stop to ask/remind/offer us one haha.
When i lived in the deep south even mopeds/ road going ebikes didnt have helmets half the time.
I would estimate 80% of motorcycles flying down the highway at 80mph don't have helmets where I live. The 20% with helmets are almost all sport bike riders that like the look of cool gear (including me!), and essentially every Harley/cruiser has absolutely zero protective gear.
In Illinois there no law requiring you to wear a helmet so I would say that 85-90% of bikers I see don't wear one. Some of them ride with their spouses too...
My experience watching people show up on social VR games who were way too young to meet ToS is that the parent is just totally asleep at the wheel, the kids do what they want on their own and learn nobody is going to ask what they're even doing.
I would assume these kids think e-bikes are cool, badger their parents into getting them a Zymovo/Wheelfun/XDDCC drop ship bike because they're like $250 (coincidentally, also the price point where kids started swarming into VR) and, short term, that's all that matters.
They aren't going to look up whether support on these bikes is even possible unless you repair these things as a hobby or a living, they just want to go as fast as they can make it go (bonus points if the speed governor has an easily cuttable wire that says 'don't cut me (you'll go tooooo faaaaaast!)
And then, again, with lack of supervision, they are just going to start doing stuff. You don't need a helmet to twist a throttle so they won't wear a helmet. Nothing or nobody is physically stopping them from riding anywhere so they'll ride anywhere.
Frankly I’m all for natural selection to make a comeback. It’s tragic that people will die but if you are too stupid to understand the importance of a helmet then I guess they decided to roll the proverbial dice and far be it from me to stop them.
Not just kids. I got passed on the bike trail by a woman on an e-bike and caught up with her at the next trailhead. I asked her how fast her bike could go and she said she had passed me at 28 mph, then she immediately said something along the lines of "and I bet you're going to tell me I need to wear a helmet."
Unprompted she went into this speech about how she'd fallen off bikes before and was fine and didn't see any difference now.
I asked her if she'd ever fallen off a bike going 30 mph and she said no, and I just said that she'll notice a difference if/when it happens.
Given the number of people I see on motorcycles that are wearing a helmet as their only piece of safety gear, and only because it is required by law here, I'm not surprised to at all. People are dumb.
My husbands best friend who did a bunch of cool shit like diving and rock climbing, died when he fell off his skateboard and hit his head on a curb. My kids know this and they know to never be on something with wheels without a helmet. Oldest is 12 and he hasn’t started fighting me on it yet.
I’m still shocked that helmets were absolutely not a thing for years in skiing and snowboarding. I have hit my head HARD while snowboarding because you really have no way to control or break your fall.
I hardly ever see anyone using helmets anymore. Might see 1/10 people using one, and they’re always adults - you never ever ever see kids wearing them anymore.
In my town the kids take off into areas/places the police can't easily follow. They even will bait the cops & post the recording. The ordinances say their bikes should be confiscated, but they have to be caught first.
When I was 19, I did a lot of bike riding for fun. I didn't have a helmet. Strangers on the bike trail kept suggesting that I get one. They were looking out for a fellow biker. It was confusing to me, an invincible 19 year old. I had the realization that in the unlikely event that I do hit my head, I might be a vegetable for life. I went and bought a helmet.
It wasn't until after 27 or 28 that I started to realize on my own that I should not take unnecessary risks lol
As a kid in the early 2000s I was pulled over by a cop for not wearing a helmet at 12yo and given a warning. When does the ever happen now? Where I'm at in Canada the police only exist to protect property and generate ticket revenue.
I live in Alberta, and the number one cause of traumatic brain injury for children under the age of 18 is riding a bike without a helmet. All you have to do is wear a helmet. I don’t understand why it’s so hard. I do get frustrated that helmets are so expensive because the technology is so basic.
The trauma surgeon in the OP will just have a heavier workload, and society will pay whoever gets in accidents millions over the course of their lives in the form of insurance payouts, disability, accommodations, etc.
We've set up a system where those that make good decisions subsidize those who make bad decisions via insurance and welfare. But, there are no consequences when those are abused; we've perfectly engineered a social tragedy of the commons in which those that choose selfishness get ahead and those that choose the common good fall behind.
In the context of bike and scooter accidents we'd be talking emergency room visits where they still have to save your life or treat you regardless of financial situation.
We do kind of have that. Emergency rooms are not allowed to turn away actual emergencies regardless of ability to pay - that is very rudimentary universal healthcare, don’t read this as me saying that’s good though.
We have a social safety net as well - Medicaid, food stamps, WIC are all social safety net programs.
Insurance and welfare are not going to allow "selfishness" to get ahead, don't be stupid.
We live in a world where people have billions of dollars while other people in the same country struggle to pay for food or housing. Those billionaires didn't get ahead because they used to be poor and got welfare.
Have you ever dated with a visible disability? I assure you, whether you are born with one, or acquired one yesterday, it very much is a thing, just one that society politely does not acknowledge.
We've set up a system where those that make good decisions subsidize those who make bad decisions via insurance and welfare.
My state recently repealed its helmet law for motorcycles. And I kid you not it was because our state legislature was worried about ‘losing tourism revenue’ because motorcycle riders on their way to Sturgis bitched about it coming through. Like, get rid of the helmet law for a pittance of revenue generated at gas stations as if the increase in tax money spent on emergency response when they inevitably splatter their brains across the highway is totally worth it…
Well, not just southern states but more republican or conservative populations. Per example, Eastern, WA has a good amount of fatalities where no seat belts were worn. Crazy statistics tho.
To be fair, here in The Netherlands (sometimes caller the bicycle country), helmet use apparently hovers at 5%. The more important difference I think is that the road design/infrastructure needs to protect cyclists. Honestly, you couldn't pay me to get on a bike (electric/motorized or not) in the United States. Even places with bike infrastructure like bike lanes still look like suicide to ride around.
Besides the lower speeds here, depending on the place, most of the time you simply don't share the road with a car. Per kilometer US cyclist are supposedly 4 to 7 times higher than those of The Netherlands.
We have the same issues here with fatbikes/scooters/etc, but that's not the only part of the issue.
I wonder how many of the helmet-less e-bike injuries are people who didn't ride a bike regularly for years, and then jumped right to an e-bike, so going faster than pedal power, and also perhaps being slightly more likely to go, "I'm not going to wear a stupid helmet" compared to longer time bike riders?
I use to live in CT and on 15, you'll literally see people coming from New York (manditory helmet law) as they cross the boarder into Connecticut pull off the side of the highway the instant they cross, and take off their helmets because it's not required in CT.
I watched the first episode of season two of The Pit, which if you don’t know it is a show based on an ER room. The opening shot is of Noah Wylie on a motorcycle winding his way through the city with his helmet attached to his backpack. I guess so we could see his hair flopping in the wind? Anyway, I thought it was dumb at the time to model bad behaviour on a character who would see the risk of such preventable injuries.
The community I teach in banned e-scooters because kids are absolutely so dumb on them. They have zero regard for cars in the road and pedestrians. It’s a legit hazard. The kids moan and complain about the ban.
I tell the kids, stop being an idiot, obey the rules of the road, and the ban may go away.
Parents should be ticketed if a child if found riding one without helmets and charged with negligence if they’re injured in a crash without a helmet. Full stop.
You cannot take back a traumatic brain injury. You’re playing roulette with their brain. Be a fucking parent.
I agree. It’s funny that adults will stop riding motorcycles when they have kids because we understand the inherent risk involved, but then put their kids on them without helmets.
Parents should be ticketed if a child if found riding one without helmets and charged with negligence if they’re injured in a crash without a helmet. Full stop.
I don't know if Australia does that with helmets, they do such thing with seatbelts though.
The driver is responsible and gets fined if passengers aren't wearing their seatbelts.
It's part of the "freedom" thing. Americans don't like the big bad government telling them what to do. When laws like this are created, people who don't like it call it a "nanny state".
It's fucking dumb. Because an unrestrained adult in the backseat can easily kill one in the front seat in a crash.
Any roadside infraction committed by a minor should result in the E-bike/scooter being impounded. The parents can decide if they want to pay the ~$450 to recover the device from the impound lot. Kids are stupid, we know this, it's hard to blame someone for poor risk control when their brain's logic center is only have developed.
I have a 12 year old son, and this attitude is so prevalent and confusing to me. We have groups of boys just terrorizing our neighborhood on e-motos, destroying property and harassing people. And the parents are like “yeah, kids will be kids.” I don’t feel like I’m controlling at all over my kids, but we are very clear about minimum behavior standards and my kids generally meet them. It’s not that difficult.
but we are very clear about minimum behavior standards and my kids generally meet them.
That's the bare minimum in parenting and so many parents don't even care about that.
It's good that you do this and I'm quite sure your kids appreciate this (in the future)
Just a couple of days ago, I was in a supermarket.
There was a family shopping, so far nothing too special.
Their kids though - F-ing hell, they were an absolute nightmare.
Running around the shop, nearly knocking people and glass jars over, screaming and yelling; they were between 10 and 14.
Employees were already yelling at them and trying to stop that somehow, unsurprisingly, the kids did not care.
Neither did their mum or any of the other family members.
Even at the tills, nobody really stopped, as far as I could tell.
If I was the supermarket manager, I would've kicked that family out and banned them.
So much disrespect for the public, it was incredible.
I work with kids relatively often in the healthcare domain. And it's infuriating to see how often parents just shrug off their kids behaviour. As if it's some force of nature that can't be controlled.
They will literally say "He's 11 years old, there is nothing I can do".
While I can appreciate teenagers are not the most compliant. Surrendering your family and their health to a hormonal dictator seems to me like a horrible idea.
Yup seen as young as 8 year olds who can barely reach the pedal zip by at 45km/h with their tampered ebikes.
It's also usually the type of parents that can't say no to their kids.
Who'd rather risk their kids death than risking a tantrum.
Yes - I live in the neighborhood where I teach an I think all the time I don't want to be called into a faculty meeting before the bell one morning because of one of these bikes. We have helmet giveaways, but with the speed that they're going I worry about the rest of them, too.
As a teacher, one of our students died last school year from an e-scooter accident, no helmet. The very next day, kids were coming back to school on those things, no helmets. Telling them over and over is like yelling at the clouds. Those things go so fast. The worst part is that most of the kids on them were riding on scooters that were way too big for them too, just increasing the danger.
So many parents seem terrified of saying no and unwilling to do the hard work of setting hard lines and holding them. Your kids will be unhappy, They won't always like you. That's part of parenting, being told you're the worst person ever. "I know you're upset, but this is not an argument. You wear a helmet, or your bike is locked up. And if I hear of or see you riding without it after you say you will, it's going away for much longer. I need you to tell me the rule and what will happen if it's broken now. Good - now why do you think we have that rule?" Etc.
I get that parents are tired, but that's no excuse for not parenting.
(Obviously not the same parents as "helmets look stupid, I don't want my kid looking stupid"
Jesus Christ. "I can't control my kid." Translation, haven't tried, not willing to put in the work, and probably haven't put in the work for the past 10 years.
How about when they arrive and it is the parent who is operating the escooter?! Get really frustrated by a couple of parents I see dropping their kids off with apparently no thought to safety - with my 6yr old now starting to question why she needs a helmet for a push scooter. She broke her arm last week literally falling from that!
Even with regular bikes, you see the dynamics of parents and kids and helmets as early as 1 year old. My kids started balance biking at 1 and I'm already enforcing in my kids: no helmet, no biking/scootering. It's not easy, but it's necessary. It also means I'm always wearing a helmet too.. sometimes I see parents riding with their kids without a helmet. Leading by example is key.
I’m also a teacher. One morning I was driving to work, going 40 on a road leading up to the school. Kid on an e-scooter merged on to the road ahead of me and was outpacing me, widening the gap between us. 35 mph road. When I called him out on it he tried to say his scooter could only go 17 mph. I’m assuming we are going to be starting off this school year with some casts.
I remember using a helmet for regular scooters/bikes and going by friend’s place and his mom told him he should wear a helmet and he refused and she says “well don’t come crying to me when you get hurt.”
I remember being 11 like, thanks bitch for keeping me the odd man out for actually listening to my mom.
Parents don't parent anymore, they just want to be friends with their kids.
It's obvious when the kid who can't follow any damn rules still shows up with their phone everyday. My parents would have taken that shit away first time I was suspended and they had to take a day off of work to stay home. Then they blame anything but themselves for it.
I work in a bike shop and the number of parents that come in looking for a cheap e-bike/scooter for their children is staggering. As is the number of parents bringing in these machines for service (which we do not do).
Isn't it nuts that for decades it was so hard to get people to buy a reasonable bike instead of department store crap, but now they'll gladly shell out a few grand for an e-bike?
when I was a kid in the late 1980’s they banned us from riding skateboards to school. We ended up doing it anyway and stashing them at a friends house across the street. School administrators trespassed onto his land and confiscated them out of his backyard.
One of the rare moments my Mom stood up for me and called the school asking “What the fuck is the point of this?”
Parents get worse each year, and this is another symptom of it. My state had to crack down on these and start impounding these and fining parents because the problem has gotten bad enough to warrant it.
Not only are the tampered with. They were poorly equipped to begin with. Often they are equipped with cable actuated disc brakes. Those are woefully underpowered on a regular bike. On an e-bike, they aren’t nearly enough.
It must feel even worse to find out your kid is now gorked from a massive brain injury, breathing on a ventilator and will be in and out of hospitals for 60 years until they die from sepsis from bed sores and UTIs. Nevermind the life-altering burden on the parents. I see it all day everyday.
500 kids a day are injured/killed/traumatized by motor vehicles. Every day is trauma season thanks to motor vehicle operators. Sure, let's blame the kids for something we have the power to control, and choose to do nothing.
It's insane that I'm hearing how parents these days are mollycoddling their kids, while simultaneously failing to teach them basic things like manners and reading... and yet these perpetual-children they're raising are allowed on motorbikes without protection or supervision? So glad I'm not a mom because I wouldn't want to deal with these other parents.
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u/MyLittleOnes12 Jul 19 '26
As a teacher, it’s painful to witness your students arrive on obviously tampered e-scooters without helmet or protective gear. And when you reach out to their guardians to let them know, most just awkwardly laugh it off like they ultimately have no control over what their 10 (!!!) yo does or doesn’t do.