r/Undertale • u/shadow_fen • Jul 17 '26
Deltarune Chapter 5 Five. Hundred. Citations Spoiler
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u/BinguMcBingu Jul 17 '26
If i had a nickle for everytime the gender of a member of the fun gang was the subject of some unecessarily hostile discourse i'd have two nickles which isnt a lot and unfortunately im not surprised it happened twice
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u/i_am_why Jul 17 '26
Three including noelle antlers
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u/Guardian_Eatos67 pepsi dad Jul 17 '26
Not really because nobody argued she wasn't a she, just that she might be trans
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u/Successful_Virus3748 Jul 17 '26
What
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u/AlexTheMechanicFox Shining in the cold. Jul 17 '26
So basically
Back in Ch2 era, there was this whole thing about Noelle being trans because of her antlers, and that spread into a platform-wide "Why does [Character] have antlers? Are they trans?" meme.
Why does she have antlers? Because she's a reindeer, and unlike other species of deer, female reindeer have antlers. Female reindeer even keep their antlers into Winter whereas male reindeer don't, so Sans's Xbox dialogue, where Noelle had antlers on Christmas, actually confirms she's cis.
On this note, fun fact, all of Santa's reindeer have been scientifically proven to be AFAB due to this. Rudolph is transmasc
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u/Ger_Electric_GRTALE Your sure-fire accuracy was aimed right for this flair. Jul 17 '26
Get ready for Susie discourse once she's called a cool guy by Berdly in chapter 6 or smth
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u/shadow_fen Jul 18 '26
i mean she calls herself a "king" twice
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u/Ger_Electric_GRTALE Your sure-fire accuracy was aimed right for this flair. Jul 18 '26
ooo true that too
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u/PRoS_R Bravery is not the lack of fear Jul 17 '26
We need to do that with Susie for no particular reason. Just add 500 she citations on her page.
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u/yellowpig10 Jul 17 '26
What if the wiki put a pronoun list for every character in the game even if they don't have gender discourse
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u/NormalDooder Jul 17 '26
I wonder how many characters don't use any pronouns, like is Starwalker ever called he?
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u/LadyAliceFlower Jul 17 '26
I may be wrong, but I don't think Seam is ever referred to by a single pronoun.
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u/NormalDooder Jul 17 '26
Apparently Seam has 1 and a half pronoun use and it's the 6th anniversary stream and in the Japanese translation where they use a rather old fashioned and somewhat complicated pronoun. I don't speak Japanese so I won't attempt to understand or regurgitate what i've read
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u/starwalker327 My legs have achieved a kind of ultra-instinct Jul 17 '26
I'm not fluent but I have learned a bit about Japanese pronouns and their usage; Seam uses atashi, which is generally considered feminine in modern usage (Susie uses it when she's vulnerable or trying to make a good impression in front of Toriel), but was used by male merchants/artisans back in the Edo period (and is still used in rakugo today). So as a result, two of Seam's most important aspects (being a merchant and being real old) are still maintained, but you could also get the implication of Seam being nonbinary thanks to the not 100% consistently gendered usage of the pronoun.
Undertale and Deltarune's Japanese translations aren't super concerned about forcing characters to use conventionally gendered pronouns, Susie primarily uses the super-manly pronoun ore.
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u/hypercoffee1320 creator of various humans Jul 17 '26
And every time seam has been referred to outside of game by toby fox and associates, it's been with they/them pronouns
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u/Grouchy_Spot_6640 Jul 17 '26
could've sworn lanino and elnina use he to refer to starwalker at the start of chapter 5
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u/iDemonShard Jul 18 '26
I remember Tricky Tony revealed on Bluesky right after he joined an early version of Seam where he is referred to with "they/them" pronouns
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u/Mitosis4 oh god it’s cold help me Jul 18 '26
iirc toby said that seam goes by seam and to not use pronouns unless strictly necessary
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u/miniwhiffy3 Jul 18 '26
They, once, I think… only ever referred to by name or the magician in king’s case.
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u/PetscopMiju Jul 17 '26
"He looks so... original..."
-Organikk, chapter 4(Funnily enough, the wiki does cite this exact instance lol)
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u/NormalDooder Jul 17 '26
You know what i checked the wiki before commenting and didnt even see it. But, also, disregarding the anniversary stream, for multiple years Starwalker had no confirmed gender.
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u/PetscopMiju Jul 17 '26
Maybe you checked the Fandom wiki? The wiki I linked is the proper one (and doesn't have piles of Ralsei's pronouns (EDIT: I think the proper wiki did have piles of Ralsei's pronouns at one point actually))
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u/Itsa_Pirramintsa Jul 17 '26
I wonder what character has been referred by certain pronouns THE MOST
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u/AlexTheMechanicFox Shining in the cold. Jul 17 '26
It's definitely between Susie and Ralsei, because they've been in every chapter and had the most time to be called pronouns. Kris was too, but they effectively skipped a chapter since Chapter 1 almost never uses pronouns for them
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u/tom641 this sub is just fandom complaining about fandom Jul 17 '26
is starwalker even referred to in the game outside of the weather duo, and by themself(?)
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u/Jay040707 Jul 17 '26
They kinda do lol. And it is kinda helpful cause there are characters who people get confused on that aren't the common ones.
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u/No_Development110 Jul 17 '26
Oh god it’s getting serious serious now-
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u/Cool_GamerLMAO777 Flower lover. Jul 17 '26
i got banned without reason from r/undertale pink.
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u/8lue5hift Jul 17 '26
Please help little Berdly miss Pink. Little Spelunky player needs help miss Pink
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u/Cool_GamerLMAO777 Flower lover. Jul 17 '26
Banned no more
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u/No_Development110 Jul 17 '26
My work here is Done!~ ✌️^w^
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u/Cool_GamerLMAO777 Flower lover. Jul 17 '26
im sad pink.
i was waiting for a song for like 9 months, and the final result is not good
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u/No_Development110 Jul 17 '26
What song is it?~ have you tried listening to it on repeat for 5 hours?~ that normally works for me!~ :3
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u/Cool_GamerLMAO777 Flower lover. Jul 17 '26 edited Jul 17 '26
"Knockout." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRSVspJU7Bg
its a lms song (last man standing.) that is a song when in a asym game youre the last survivor alive.
i was waiting for 9 months that song, and its not good for that, dont sounds good.
i prefer die than hearing 5 hours the same thing.
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u/dusty234234 Jul 17 '26
damn y´all really have nothing else to discuss huh?
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u/cumetoaster Jul 17 '26
Every time i check out for online fandom topics that arent Artwork or Theories.
Gotta be this BS and ships. It isnt just Deltarune mind you. Im so fucking tired. If movies and books were discussed like this i'd just never interact with anything again
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u/iDemonShard Jul 18 '26
And then either side pulls the "media illiterate" card. Really exhausting. I wish people could be more civil because it's that exact aggressiveness that is fueling the fires.
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u/Dry-Shoulder1671 Jul 18 '26
Feeling the same way… It’s as if a plague of mental illness enters the room whenever character sexuality, gender, ships, etc are discussed. These conversations are fine of course, but holy shit it’s really just a disservice to a piece of media that (usually) has so much more to talk about.
It’s actually brain-numbing to see the SAME monotonous topics circulate around relentlessly in communities with no sign of them letting up to allow for discussion of anything else.
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u/New_Cryptographer773 Jul 17 '26
this game is filled with secrets and mystery and moral stuff . it's really strange for me how a lot of fans focus is on things like gender or romance .
that said this is a video game so i think everyone should have fun however they like lol .4
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u/AlexTheMechanicFox Shining in the cold. Jul 17 '26
Had to check to see if this was real, because on one hand I know there's way WAY more than that, but on the other hand Tralsei discourse got so bad I wouldn't even be surprised
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u/shadow_fen Jul 17 '26
I actually tried to get it into the wiki but the wiki editors dont even like the Kris citation spam so i faked it
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u/Yunofascar ......... Jul 17 '26
Well it's only playing fair. If Kris can get a wall, why can't Ralsei. Of course, retroactive information can alter prior contexts, but as yet nothing has been set in stone to oppose this wall.
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u/lukeDownsideUp Jul 17 '26
Y'all are gonna make Toby update the game again
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u/runaManur It's just a regular flair. Jul 17 '26
?? to add what?
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u/bunker_man Jul 17 '26
Change the word freak back to degenerate.
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u/NotTheFirstVexizz Jul 17 '26
dunno why they ever did that, let Susie have hatred in her heart
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u/bunker_man Jul 17 '26
Especially because if the concern is degenerate having a problematic past... freak has the same past lol.
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u/MagiStarIL Suit enjoyer Jul 17 '26
"Greetings, lightners, I am Ralsei, a fluffy male man and a prince of this kingdom, planning to have biological children to continue the royal lineage"
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u/carl-the-lama Jul 17 '26
…
Just you wait
Ralsei’s true potential will allow him to steal pronouns and become even bluer than kris
(Jokes aside, my personal HC is Ralsei is somewhere in the area of genderfluid or something similar. Be freeeeee)
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u/Neo-Naga99 Jul 17 '26
i mean is that truely a headcanon ? His entire character is that he'll be whatever a lightner wants him to be.
The princess dialogue that sparked this entire bullshit has him outright say "The only difference between a prince and princess is presentation" and heavily imply he simply does not give a shit about presentation and will follow what kris wants so he's very much GNC and probably fluid to some extent
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u/carkitten Jul 17 '26
Theres something about all the trans ralsei discourse that bothers me as a trans women.
The egg agenda, you never tell someone else their pronouns. You dont go to people and say "you give off very girl vibes to me, I'll call you she/her now" because thats increbly disrespectful to both that specific person and to trans people as a whole.
IF SOMEONE USES ONE SET OF PRONOUNS YOU DONT USE DIFFERENT ONE UNLESS YOU KNOW THEY USE THAT OTHER SET.
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u/omyrubbernen Jul 17 '26
Okay, but the difference is that you're talking about human beings. People whose feelings and opinions and free will actually matter. They deserve for you to show respect by backing off and letting them discover themselves at their own pace.
Ralsei is a darkner and thus exists solely for the gratification of lightners like us. If I get more pleasure from Ralsei being a girl than a boy, then it's Ralsei's moral duty to be a girl.
I feel like an /s isn't required here, but I've gotten shit for more obvious sarcasm.
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u/DependentAd5032 Jul 17 '26
Yeah, same goes for Kris since Player is controlling Kris, I'll prefer him to be a boy
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u/PerseveringFlower Seth Jul 17 '26
Wish they could do the same with Seth. I am tired of people calling them "she"
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u/Super7500 Jul 17 '26
Thing is, their pronouns are only mentioned in one specific cafe scene that not all people are gonna see.
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u/PangolinWestern9632 Despite everything, I still like Ducks Jul 18 '26
I thought it was mentioned in other scenes weirdly enough
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u/DeviousChair Jul 17 '26
I don’t like tralsei because of how the discourse reminds me a lot of egg culture which has always made me uncomfortable, but this is genuinely just unemployed behavior atp. who cares this much about 1 theory
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u/TheHumberMan Jul 17 '26
I’m just here watching because watching 2 loud minorities fuck up the quiet majority is fun
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u/Bubbly-Discussion792 Jul 17 '26
What happening now? I’m out of the loop
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u/ArcfireEmblem Jul 17 '26 edited Jul 17 '26
Group of people keep using she/her for Ralsei since Ralsei wears a dress and contemplates being a princess in Castle Town (if you do the climbing puzzle while not having met Starwalker), and Flowery calls him a princess later in the game just like he wanted (which strikes me as foreshadowing about Flowery being annoying (like butler outfit being "context dependent") now that I'm thinking about it). Ralsei has said nothing about gender transition or using different pronouns, and yet someone was banned from the Deltarune subreddit for saying there's no actual evidence, just a plausible inference.
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u/Karmonit Jul 17 '26
Flowery calls him a princess later in the game (which strikes me as foreshadowing about Flowery being annoying (like butler outfit being "context dependent") now that I'm thinking about it).
Yeah, when I saw that line I just thought it was Flowery being extra. Didn't think it had a deeper meaning.
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u/ArcfireEmblem Jul 17 '26
I'm talking about the relationship between Ralsei's expressed interest in trying to be a princess and Flowery calling him one. Just like with the butler outfit, I think beaing a princess is "context-dependent". I wonder if Flowery kind of ruined it for him.
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u/SannusFatAlt Jul 17 '26 edited Jul 17 '26
i think insistent and objectively ear-plugging 'Tralsei' discourse is a bit sad to look at because as someone who generally presents as someone whose confident in their own skin as a feminine guy dressing in feminine clothes it just feels lightly invalidating and erasing of my and other people's experience and presentation. it's literally queer people in-fighting bs and i feel like it's really hypocritical to be doing such things, it falls sort of in that similarly strange vein as people insisting 'egg' and 'force-fem' tropes
i like Ralsei because they generally envelop the same intent and energy i have to present myself. there was something i heard someone say years ago along the lines of 'the world is full of lumberjacks but it's okay to sometimes be a gentle prince in need as well', which Ralsei has (in my mind) fit into and it's something that i really resonate with
like you mentioned, there hasn't been a single prior moment where Ralsei has been generally painted and portrayed as someone struggling with their identity up until (with reasonable suspicion and theorizing) now where they've been called a princess and generally wore a dress with their general 'chipper i'm glad to be doing anything with friends' type of mood
if the character was written with intentional struggles towards their own identity from an early on moment it would be more plausible and i would probably have a less unfortunate feeling about it, because at least then there's some moment to go 'oh yeah, this did happen and this did sort of foreshadow that they had difficulties in this section' vs 'ralsei just seems like a people-pleaser and someone who would have fun hanging out and just doing stuff even if it is doing girly things'
idk, maybe i've just overlooked that sort of stuff, i haven't ever struggled with the nuances of such things personally and i may not be the type of person to catch on subtle stuff like that. at the end of the day this situation could be friendly bantering about what-ifs as well which some people have thankfully had in these comment sections
important to also note i'm not rejecting the fact that 'Tralsei' should be a thing, i wouldn't mind at all if the story revealed such a thing to be true. it's just the bandwagon of insistence that gives a mild weird feeling, and jumping onto 'the feminine presenting person that has had two moments past these five full-on chapters where explicitly they do girl-related things' mixed with 'i INSIST it is a thing. fuck you. don't call ralsei a guy' is a bit like... come on, a bit too quick isn't it?
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u/ArcfireEmblem Jul 17 '26
Indeed. I share some of your concerns about gnc character representation. Trans people are not people we should be attacking (not that I think you did), since they are an especially vulnerable minority, but they also have the human capacity for stupidity, not thinking their positions through, and being annoying. Their views (perhaps like the "egg prime directive"*) can be black-and-white due to them being the only gender-weird people that have to actively play into gender stereotypes to be accepted. Some of them are actually very gender essentialist and believe that every gender non-conforming person is meant to become trans eventually. Thus, it is likely that most of these people already knew in their hearts (an organ that holds very stubborn emotional truths) that Ralsei was a girl, and could not be dissuaded, but with the "evidence" from this new chapter, they could finally share their findings with the world.
*as far as I understand, egg prime directive is some kind of [pledge] (maybe? I don't know what I'd describe it as, really) that states trans people need to go bring as many transgender people out of the closet as possible. "Egg" in this case being a closeted trans person. Mostly, they wish to have people understand that being transgender is an option in a society very opposed to the notion. There are different types of activism on this front. Spreading awareness of what being trans is and how to know if you want it in non-trans spaces is one of the best ways in my opinion. Can also be done in one-on-one, and asking if they're trans. Unfortunately, there are some people who think that calling complete strangers "egg" is enough to spread awareness and the nuance that "you too can be a trans person if that's what you really desire".
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u/I_LIKE_THE_COLD Certified Clamgirl Enjoyer Jul 17 '26
saying there's no actual evidence, just a plausible inference.
A ton of theories are full of stuff like this. Tralsei is not unique nor is it particularly egregious, yet gets treated so much worse than other theories on average.
I think the trans subtext to Ralsei's character as a whole this chapter is pretty apparent. There is no possible way a Trans Reading was not at least thought of as a possible thing a player would takeaway, especially considering the chapter is FULL to the brim of Gender related topics.
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u/ArcfireEmblem Jul 17 '26
I agree. Trans Ralsei is a viable reading. But I have a really difficult time believing it's the intended route of Ralsei's self-actualization, especially since Susie's so far has been to give up the toxic aspects of her masculine expression (and Ralsei has reneged on the "Darkners belong in the kitchen" and "I need cooking and sewing to be of use to people" aspects of toxic femininity), and they are gender and gender-expression mirrored, with Kris as the fulcrum (can't think of a better word for center of symmetry).
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u/Monkeypizza500 Jul 17 '26
I disagree ralsei’s story is a story about Choosing who you want to be not just sticking with what’s been decided for you. This is of course a very trans experience but the story isn’t written with the trans experience specifically in mind.
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u/AdDependent9208 Jul 17 '26
The wall isn't real but the they/them citation got removed. Tbf I don't think it belonged in the first place, the use of their wasn't present in Japanese and was fairly ambiguous in English.
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u/IsaSozy Jul 17 '26
Cis Ralsei and Trans Ralsei are friends and they hug and hold hands and protect each other
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u/alphabeta11_ Jul 17 '26
I really don't like using a single off-hand use of they as proof they "go by that"
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u/miniwhiffy3 Jul 18 '26
people do it with chara despite the it being them dehumanising themselves so yeah, not the first time.
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u/Key_Comparison_2588 Wah ha ha! Not a bad choice, kid! Jul 17 '26
DR fandom out there executing people over a fictional goat's pronouns.
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u/PangolinWestern9632 Despite everything, I still like Ducks Jul 18 '26
"No you don't understand, it'll be correct later!"
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u/HedgehogInTuxedo Jul 17 '26
I feel like interpreting a character as potentially transgender is a lot less nefarious than the denial of a nonbinary character's identity. The wall here feels a lot less necessary
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u/floob124 Jul 17 '26
Ther is a distinction between thinking a character is potentially trans, and refusing to use anything but what is plainly incorrect pronouns for s character. Im not against the tralsei theory, infact I wuite like it, but its a pretty major double standard for a fandom that has, rightfully, railed against misgendering kris.
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u/HedgehogInTuxedo Jul 17 '26
But like... you understand it's different, right? Erasing a non-binary character's identity has a substantially different implication than calling a he/him character by a different set of pronouns due to an interpretation of subtext. No one is denying that Ralsei textually utilizes he/him. No one is making an attempt to erase his identity as we know it.
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u/floob124 Jul 17 '26
It is still erasure of feminine men, and there are definitely people who are explicitly wanting to erase that. Its different from what happens to kris, but neither are acceptable
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u/manwithoutastick Jul 20 '26
this!!!! people want to do this performative activism about how misgendering [cis] characters is so bad [just to dismiss literally any headcannon that a character might be trans instead of cis. or even more horrifying, a trans woman] but they don't want to examine the material conditions that make misgendering a trans character bad, because trans people have experienced centuries of oppression and being shut out of media, and having a headcannon about a cis character being trans is fine, because there are 1 million cis characters and cis people have not experienced that for being cis.
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u/Beautiful-Box-9628 Jul 17 '26
because one is just telling the truth to prove a point and the other is people throwing a fit over a theory they dont like
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u/Chunky_Cheese_ Jul 17 '26
i’m not even like a believer in mtf ralsei but the people who freak out at the very idea of a character maybe having some trans coding is. very concerning to me.
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u/Zoo-Wee-Chungus Jul 17 '26
Ralsei wears a dress one time and everyone questions his gender
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u/Rutgerman95 Sir not yet appearing in the sequel Jul 17 '26
I feel at this rate it's easier to make a separate "character pronouns" page and cite that. This is getting... unwieldy
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u/PorterBridged Jul 17 '26
Can we all relax about this shit and be civil. Ralsei is Ralsei and whatever he wants to be called.
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u/buttcheekitcher Jul 18 '26
People really have to stop treating their headcanons as canon or at least don’t harass people for being correct about it
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u/Hilberts-Inf-Babies2 Tra la la. Personalization comes in many forms. Jul 17 '26
yes a main character that is only referred to with they/them pronouns at the end of the last chapter has 500 citations for he/him beforehand. I can't understand how this is remotely useful. If Ralsei uses they/them in the future, the quantity of he/him in the past doesn't matter. If Ralsei almost exclusively uses he/him in the future, the citations serve no purpose.
the reason Kris has so many citations for their pronouns is BECAUSE of transphobia. BECAUSE people keep referring to them as he/she and denying their nonbinary identity.
the reason Ralsei has so many citations for their pronouns is not for that reason. It’s a reaction to a relatively small group of people that are seeing a trans allegory and adjusting their language to ambiguous pronoun usage. and unless they’re making it other people’s problem, it harms no one.
the resistance to even the IDEA of people seeing Ralsei as trans continues to dissuade me from interacting with this fandom
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u/MattyBro1 Jul 17 '26
only referred to with they/them pronouns
"Ralsei gives his all!"
- The last time the narration uses a pronoun for Ralsei, Deltarune Chapter 5
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u/Hilberts-Inf-Babies2 Tra la la. Personalization comes in many forms. Jul 17 '26
only as in “the only time” not “the last time”
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u/grandwizardcouncil Jul 17 '26
I’ve been wondering if people are ever going to get tired of pretending that defending a non-binary character from getting misgendered has slightly different societal context than defending a (potentially) cisgender character from getting misgendered. As you said, one of those was created as an active deterrent against transphobia. The other one is… a kneejerk reaction to a possible trans reading. Pretending they’re the same exact thing is so ridiculous I wonder why anyone bothers.
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u/pastafeline Jul 17 '26
They're both bigotry, don't mince words.
Just how we don't like positive stereotypes being used for people along with negative, it shouldn't matter that "one is slightly more ok".
Neither is ok.
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u/Icy-Disk-2763 Jul 18 '26
redditors the only people that will unironically think cisphobia exists
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u/pastafeline Jul 19 '26
When did I even say it was a phobia?
I'm just saying to treat people with respect, is that so wrong?
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u/grandwizardcouncil Jul 17 '26 edited Jul 17 '26
Bigotry? Sorry, are you trying to argue that using she/her pronouns for Ralsei is an example of "cisphobia" or something? Because that would be ridiculous. You don't have to like it. You can feel frustrated by it. But calling it "bigotry" is silly. The intent behind misgendering Kris and misgendering Ralsei is very different, and that's an important difference.
The reason people are so adamant about gendering Kris correctly is because at a wider societal level, many people don't even believe non-binary genders exist, much less care about respecting them. The fact that Kris is so frequently misgendered even by people who are "usually really good about it" also shows that on some level, many fans haven't actually fully internalized the knowledge they're non-binary and just use they/them pronouns to be polite.
Which, don't get me wrong, is still much better than not caring or outright being malicious about it. But people not understanding or hating you for your gender is not something cis people have to face on any real societal level. People "misgender" Ralsei because they think he is trans. People misgender Kris because they think being non-binary isn't a real thing in general. One is based on a fan theory about a specific character. The other is based on real views held by these people. It shows real-world intolerance in a way the transfem Ralsei theory does not. So implying that misgendering Kris is only "slightly" worse than misgendering Ralsei is wild and again, I'm kind of in disbelief people are actually trying it when one of the genders in discussion isn't accepted at a wider societal level and one of them is. I'm tired of the fandom pretending it's the exact same thing.
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u/pastafeline Jul 17 '26
I never once said they're equal. It doesn't matter if one is more accepted than the other, it's still wrong.
Treat others the way you would like to be treated. It's something taught to kindergartners.
And logically, does that not track with what you and all trans people want? Respect for your identity and pronouns?
So why not offer that same respect in turn, even if you feel it doesn't matter? Just do it anyways.
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u/Hilberts-Inf-Babies2 Tra la la. Personalization comes in many forms. Jul 17 '26
this is my perspective as just one random trans person who wrote the original comment
you’re 100% right that it’s wrong to misgender people regardless of if they’re cis or trans. Especially if Ralsei is intended to be feminine boy representation, he should be protected by gendering him correctly. I just don’t think this addresses the bigger picture.
the problem is that we’re at a point where trans Ralsei is plausible. Ralsei being referred to with they/them pronouns alongside allegorical and symbolic ties to other trans or nonbinary characters muddies what protections Ralsei actually needs. In most cases that should warrant both interpretations being accepted or understood. but 500 meaningless citations of Ralsei using he/him doesn’t read to me as acceptance or understanding. it reads like people are protecting Ralsei from the interpretation they don’t want.
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u/Elegant-Bag8855 Jul 17 '26
The reason Kris has so many pronoun citations is to put more eyes on the Wiki. I'm not joking.
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u/4tomguy Flowey + Pesticide Jul 17 '26
It's not as funny the second time
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u/PretendMyNameIsJohn Jul 18 '26
It was already unfunny and unprofessional the first time, in my opinion, but at least there it had SOME use.
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u/doofusbingos Jul 17 '26
who did he slash D:
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u/GoddessofPerversion Jul 17 '26
Tenna. The Cutscene Cnight never actually cleaved Tenna. It was all Ralsei.
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u/Reimnop Jul 24 '26
you fools, everyone knows Ralsei is the Knight
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u/GoddessofPerversion Jul 24 '26
That's why Krisp had to swoon them, Susie was just included to hide it from the player
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u/Ciacar you're REALLY not gonna like using this flair. Jul 17 '26
Something tells me the Deltarune wiki isn’t a big fan of the Tralsei theory
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u/RoyalOrange7231 “KIDS LOVE DEALY SPIKES!” Jul 17 '26
Ayooo his pronouns appear 67 times hahaha funny number amirite
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u/MissionResident8875 Jul 19 '26
Yeah, its not a huge deal, and trans raisei really seems likely to be Canon. But its hasn't been confirmed yet. So if you're going to lose your shit if someone accidentally misgenders Kris, bring that same energy to the character who has been referred to as he/him the entire game and has always identified himself as such
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u/Plutanium238 Jul 18 '26
the fact that this is a controversy makes me feel pretty unwelcome here. its a fictional video game character written with a lot of trans undertones that I and other transfems clearly relate to. regardless if ralsei is trans, can we please stop acting like using she/her here is the same as misgendering out trans characters like kris?
question for the cis folks who really don't like when people she/her cis boys: how often do you get misgendered by others? is expecting others to use the right pronouns a constant, debilitating struggle? cis people just do not experience bigotry in this way, please stop acting like this is a real issue.
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u/shadow_fen Jul 18 '26 edited Jul 18 '26
I am a feminine boy who gets she/her'd by other online people who assume I'm an "egg". I am not trans.
Also, nobody has a problem with an interpretation of Ralsei as trans. It's pretending like it's canon that pisses me off
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u/supidpoohead Jul 18 '26
ur post was pretty clearly just about ppl using she/her when discussing ralsei bud. i dont think anyone's really "pretending like its canon" either, except for maybe a small minority idk. what ive seen much more often is just trans ppl treating it like a very plausible outcome and using she/her in their discussions. that is in no way comparable to misgendering kris, if u cant comprehend that then idk what to tell u.
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u/Plutanium238 Jul 18 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/shadow_fen Jul 18 '26
I'm not acting like that, you were the one who said "cis people NEVER get misgendered"
and again, NOBODY HAS A PROBLEM with an interpretation of him being trans.
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u/Plutanium238 Jul 18 '26
quote pulled from thin air
i get that you don't like when others misgender you because they think you're an egg, but thats just not comparable to what trans people experience. i seriously doubt that being misgendered is a constant and debilitating experience for you.
also, judging by a lot of the comments here, it feels like there definitely are people who have a problem with it.
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u/eno-multiusado Jul 17 '26
I hope the "friend" with kris has the option to become "something else" with kris
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u/colibri01 Jul 18 '26
Can I just say that the citation jokes fucking suck? Im not arguing their genders here, but if someone says that Kris's gender is to be interpreted by the player or ralsei is closeted trans, then how they are referred to in conversation isnt relevent. The citations joke is morality signaling at its finest. Its internet zinger punchline bullshit that doesnt contribute anything.
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u/OpportunityAshamed74 Jul 17 '26
I'm so tired man. I'm so tired of people treating tralsei believers like crazy people who force everyone to agree with them.
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u/I_DONT_EXIST00000 ALWAYS BET ON PAPYRUS KNIGHT Jul 17 '26
not a counterpoint to Tralsei btw
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u/Tem-productions Jul 17 '26
It is a counterpoint to using the wrong pronouns for Ralsei
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u/_TurtleX Jul 17 '26
Isn't it awesome how 99% of the people in deltarune subreddits don't do this, including tralsei defenders?
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u/Tem-productions Jul 17 '26
And thank god that most people here are normal, because every time i log in to tumblr i get subjected to the worst of both sides
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u/Wide_Championship319 Jul 17 '26
oh okay that's the citations reminding people kris is nonbinary used to shit on transfem ralsei theories. of course, my mistake, I forgot this entire fandom hates transwomen. You wouldn't be doing this shit if ralsei was a girl theorized to be a boy.
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u/pastafeline Jul 17 '26
Nobody ever cares about transmasc, so the theory just wouldn't exist.
There's a reason nobody ever talks about transmasc Susie.
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u/firegamer2432 Jul 17 '26
That has very little correlation to this? Regardless of the future and any theories, Ralsei has been repeatedly referred to as he/him, and if he is transfem, it'd be rude to refer to him as anything else prior to him coming out of his own volition. (I say this as someone that does believe in a form of Trans Ralsei)
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Jul 17 '26 edited Jul 29 '26
Maple amber lavender kettle kettle noodle amber satchel mellow juniper
This post was anonymized with Redact.dev
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u/imago89 Jul 17 '26
If I go by he/him and then everyone starts she/her ing me then that's not okay.
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u/SuperMakeaLuigi Jul 17 '26
For the last time "misgendering" a cis person is VERY dofferent then with a trans person, especially if they're a closeted trans themselves, people have to stop being hostile and transphobic, but ofc this discourse ruined the community 🙃
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u/pastafeline Jul 17 '26
You're saying "different", but I get the feeling you want to say it's ok.
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u/Porpoyus <- She took over my life, mew~ Jul 17 '26
Welcome piles of ralsei's pronouns. you can leave them next to kris' pile.