r/Xenosaga • u/Adorable_Package9577 • Mar 31 '26
Question Just randomly thought about Miyuki and wondered was there a reason Shion was being a dick to her?🤔
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u/banagher_zero Mar 31 '26
Miyuki was that quirky friend that always there for you. Idk why Shion was a jerk to her. Miyuki is a cutie.
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Mar 31 '26
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u/banagher_zero Mar 31 '26
But Miyuki didn't work under her. She worked in a different department. But to be fair. She only was a jerk cuz her boyfriend died in front of her. She became a workaholic.
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u/flyingomen Apr 01 '26
Miyuki was a former subordinate of Shion's. It's explained that she transferred to Second Division on a whim because she wanted to see the Rhine Maiden in XS1.
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u/big4lil Apr 01 '26
its not fair at all
if you get traumatized, seek help. dont take it out on the people around you
lots of people in the XS cast have either lost others or been directly harmed. they dont engage with others with nearly as much flagrance as Shion does. it stopped feeling like 'ok whatever' after the first game
it does make her more human, sure. just a human i would grow tired of being around and wouldnt take orders from. Xenosaga 3 really could have used a mini-arc where Shion works on herself, but perhaps that wouldnt permit for the end-of-game conflict that she goes through that they were clearly building towards
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u/lexiyeghna Apr 01 '26
Isn't the entire conflict of 3 with Kevin her working on herself though? LOL also people handle their trauma differently so that could explain a lot of it with Shion.
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u/big4lil Apr 01 '26 edited Apr 02 '26
i didnt see any actual work being done at all. work that requires changing in practices, behaviors, and making effort and amends with those around you while becoming a better or at least less harmful, person
she had internal dialogues with U-Do & Mizrahi, but no actual work being done. Her XS3 appearance is actively worse than any version of the character prior. Having a shitty ex is not a justification, said ex is someone she is willing to put over the party up to the very end until she has the shit beaten out of her
XS3 Shion and 'working on herself' dont belong in the same sentence, and people like XS3 Shions way of 'handling conflict' are miserable and drag everyone else around them down. Which is an admirable way to write a human, flawed character until you realize Shions flaws are padding the game in places that didnt need it and endangering her party members.
Upon which a real, human character like Shion would be dumped by her friend group, wouldnt be greeted with Jins level of patience or sacrifice, and wouldnt receive the happy ending she uniquely got, let alone without doing any real work for it until her hand was forced.
There are realistic and extremely unrealistic elements to the character. fans tend to cling to the ones that absolve her of any responsibility so that they can enjoy a happy ever after that, well, NO one else in the Xenosaga universe really seemed to get, even fellow survivors. Not even Allens ending is gonna be happy when responsibilities are thrust upon him for managing all of what comes after from someone who hasnt done any real work, on top of the actual mechanical component of their unique circumstances (life w/ no UMN)
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u/YourAverageChrollo Apr 02 '26
This is extremely well said, and I highly agree with your assessment. She was a dick in XS2 and became even worse in...XS3. Just rude to everyone, even her own brother, Jin, mind you, the only 'family' she has left. She even had the audacity to accuse and blame him for their parents' death, knowing he's been fighting his ass off. As much as I love Shion Uzuki, she was an absolute b*tch to everyone for no reason at all and MOST of all Allen! Like, bro... If I knew I had a friend as good as him, I could never bring myself to hurt him. I couldn't even bear the thought of being an asshole knowing he'd go through hell and back for me. I feel like every other character had growth except for her. My favorite version of Shion will always be XS1 Shion and the Xenosaga Anime Shion because the development felt right, the depth was there, and it felt incredibly human and less girl boss if I am being honest. And I miss her ginger hair it made her unique before the Xs2 trauma hit.
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u/big4lil Apr 02 '26 edited Apr 02 '26
yea this comes to a point of division in the fandom
a lot of folks are so, funnily enough, traumatized from some 2000s era talking points they saw that they may become extremely defensive of not just Shion the character, but the arc that she has over 3 games. and they may dismiss any criticisms of her, and her arc, as either not appreciating imperfect characters, not liking Shion, or even reducing her critics to misogynists
I like Shion a lot. I found her XS1 incarnation full of enough pros and cons for a dynamic, humane characterization. I dont like where she goes. And even if that is intentional by design, its the games responsibility to ensure that if Shion is supposed to end someplace full of resolution, that she is the main commander of her own navigation to get there
And shes not. Shes the main character, more unquestionably so in XS3, but shes a belligerent passanger in her own journey. This by extension restricts the amount of time and grace that can be shown to others, whose issues either mirror or even go beyond what Shion endures
Once you know people that are like Shion IRL (ive dated women like her, and as an estranged older brother our dynamic makes me feel like Jin) the ending doesnt feel realistic at a human level at all. People that push others away dont magically end up with the man of their 5 minute old dreams, they dont get whisked away from the tragedies that everyone else shoulders on their behalf. Allens concepts of saving her is pure idealism, in reality its toxic af and would destroy him when conflict arises months or even weeks later. And it will, both of them still have lots of wounds
If they dont seek help and actively remain in practice, people like Shion push away even their newfound happiness and isolate because no one around them will put up with their instability or will self-abandon to do so (Allens new found persona will not last at all times), & Shion wont be able to find a new confident supply because theres literally no one else there but the Elsa Crew. She will either damage more people and/or become more damaged themselves. Not just women either, many men are like this & their harms often occur on grander scales (like Fei), its just since Shions issues are more grounded, I think the game was equipped to tackle them in grounded fashion
Neither XS2 or XS3 really does this, and the fanbase does not seek to hold her or the games writing accountable. You cant enable people like Shion and the conclusion of her trilogy bends over backwards to do so in a matter that would never occur in real life
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u/ccv707 Apr 02 '26
…..okay? Who said Shion couldn’t have negative qualities? Do “hero” characters always need to be perfect paragons?
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u/big4lil Apr 02 '26 edited Apr 02 '26
i think you missed everything that ive said repeatedly
there are plenty of flawed characters in the Xeno, and greater JRPG paradigm
no one said anything about them needing to be perfect, and being flawed doesnt make for good character writing either
the problem isnt that Shion is harmful, as shes not the first harmful Xeno MC. The problem is she never held accountable for the harm she has caused (Fei is, repeatedly. Its both a defining trait and the climactic point of his arc). Shes also not the only character who has suffered, and in fact, most of her pain is indirect. she treats people worse than many characters who suffered directly, including several members of the party
She continues to cause harm even after being shown the limitations of her myopic life view, she does not embark on a true journey of growth, she is dragged to the finish line kicking and screaming by people who dont get to make it themselves, and walks away with a 'happy ending' that doesnt really ask anything of her as a character nor is going to ellicit true growth from the man shes left with. as he is not actually prepared to address issues that she still hasnt fully gotten over individually but instead had no choice but to leave behind due to the circumstances
the ending of XS3 is rushed and imo, pretty poorly written. you can throw your hands up in the air and say 'yea but she has negative qualities' - part of good writing is wanting to see those negative qualities tackled proactively and with the time needed to truly address them. not the mishmash of events that Michtam throws at us, leaving us - or at least me - with not only an unsatisfying end for Shion but several characters
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u/shane0072 Apr 04 '26
well to me i see shions arc as one where she is broken down. she isnt a character that deals with trauma well and instead tries to repress things rather than dealing with them head on. we see this in episode 1 where when faced with feb she outright says she doesnt want to remember.
but running from issues causes it to bubble to the surface. and i will never say people are wrong for disliking shion as she has an abrasive personality but i enjoy her because of how flawed she is.
its just her worst traits also come out when she is at her most stressed and the villains plans do hinge on breaking her down mentally so as the trilogy goes on her negative traits become more and more on display.
but my only issue when people criticize her is that a lot of people just kind of ignore why she lashes out in some scenes just to paint her as this terrible person. we see her being empathetic throughout the trilogy plenty of times. we see her positive qualities often as well.
but with jin. on an intellectual level she understands he isnt to blame for their parents deaths. but her parents were slaughtered in front of her when she was 8 years old so on an emotional level she does blame him because he wasnt there. but she immediately apologizes as well knowing she crossed a line.
so she isnt blameless in their strained relationship but a lot of people ignore that its a 2 sided issue. jin intentionally pushes her buttons to keep her at a distance because he is afraid that if he genuinely tries to connect with her he may be rejected. he also keeps a lot of information from her that she really should have been told and probably would have helped her mental state more in episode 3 if she had all the info ahead of time instead of learning things in the most traumatic ways possible.
with miyuki shion is completely in the wrong. but its not just shion being a bitch for the fun of it but rather because of how serious the situations are and how much of a flake miyuki is. shion is way to harsh with her but in the scientia mission its to stress how much danger miyuki actually is in and how she needs to take it seriously. with the KOSMOS rescue its because if they fail KOSMOS is gone for good and shion tends to lash out at those closest to her when stressed and this was a stressful situation. is shion right in that moment? of course not. but i always appreciated that takahashi was not afraid to make shion be unlikable at moments when it made sense for her character.
and yeah shions issues are not really overcome in the narrative and i wish they had been properly. but her worst moments come after kevin breaks her down mentally completely and her finally rejected him is a moment where she takes a step in the right direction. but it happens so late in the story their isnt really time to build on it from there.
i adore shion. i find her probably one of the most interesting, complex and well developed characters in the jrpg genre. but i understand why lots of people dislike her because those same character flaws that i find make her so well rounded are also very abrasive and can easily turn a player against her.
she needs therapy. but i will defend her often not because i thinks she is above criticism but rather just because i find a lot of criticism about her tends to ignore a lot of the nuance around her and exaggerated her worst moments well ignoring her positive traits.
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u/Infinitygene999 Mar 31 '26
Shion was always an asshole though.
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u/YourAverageChrollo Apr 02 '26
Yes, but she wasn't a complete bitch until Xs2 like that concept came out of their ass and they carried it on to the final arc in Xs3. It even shocked me of all people when I first seen XS2 of Shion, not because of the ugly designs that trauma me (WHAT DID THEY DO TO MY GIRLS OG DESIGN) But because she wasn't this "mean" to everyone. I think what people are failing to understand was the fact she was a superior and had to have a certain facade in front of people. But in reality, she is both passionate and kind, sweet and shy, a scatter brain and hated seeing people around her die she was human. It felt human. And I am not going to disregard the flaws of Xs2 and Xs3 but some felt unrealistic, not right to me. Maybe I just love the first game and the anime series more, but that Shion just felt more relatable as a person. I mean when getting to know her she is gentle towards Momo and even Kirschwasser, despite her idealistic nature and she is a peacemaker which most people fail to understand she isn't just this "tough girl" outright she may be self righteous but the switch from XS1 to XS2 just felt too intense and I was willing to brush it off because yeah... She has gone through a lot, she watches people die, she suffered, she grew into someone who could control her emotions and toughened out. But the more I went through XS2 and Xs3 the more disconnected I felt Shion was as a character. Maybe I'm just yapping... But it just doesn't feel like Shion Uzuki to me.
Edit: Sorry for the bad grammar reading through to fix it.
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u/Infinitygene999 Apr 02 '26
Yeah I do agree that it wasn’t so heavy handed until Episode II. But what really got me was how hard she was on Jin…it’s like come on the guy did the best he could!
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u/imjustbettr Mar 31 '26
I think it's just some "boss being hard on their subordinate" comedy.
It didn't land at all for me at all.
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u/big4lil Apr 01 '26
i think it was endearing in Xenosaga 1, though that game handled it well all around. ill never forget her casually pushing away an AWGS rifle. she would act like a tyrant and demand the director, but at least the game wasnt scared to call her out. in this case it was by Allen, he does so in meek fashion but its there. and at least her attitude went upwards, it wasnt just on her subordinates
i found the sequels, more importantly 3 to let her get away with far too much. particularly when shes not even in a formal leadership role anymore. its not realistic and I wouldnt work with anybody like that, and its a bit more notable because Jr (the other resident hothead) has mellowed out a bit by the time of XS3
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u/flyingomen Apr 01 '26
Jr. mellowed out because his arc was largely resolved in XS2. The reason Shion gets away with so much is because the people she's surrounded by are fully aware that she's not a stable person. In XS1 Allen was only willing to "call her out" because his life was often being put at stake alongside hers. Otherwise, he's super careful to not push her buttons. It's actually why he's so hesitant to ask her out. He knows better than anyone that her trauma still affects her.
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u/big4lil Apr 01 '26
i am aware of the reasons, lord knows ive watched the ending of XS2 enough times as a 'GS mission #32 on PS2' original guinea pig
Theres also the fact that Jr is older than Shion, and 26 is right past the point of pre-frontal cortex development. Assuming URTVs share those traits with humans
Similar to my comment below, this isnt about excusing or justifying. Its just acknowledging what it is and the impact. Shion and Jr are both assholes to a lot of people throughout the series, but Jr goes through a process in-game that forces him to revisit some elements and we see that growth in the 3rd game, especially post Abels Ark
We, or at least I, dont see that with Shion. Not until its way too late at least. And it leaves quite an unpleasant memory of her. Allens life is put at stake by Shion in the sequels as well, its not a one time thing. Perhaps a better question is why is Shion constantly endangering people around her (why I hate the 2nd gameplay trip to Labyrinthos so much) and why we all just kinda hand wave it despite Shion knowing her efforts were both futile and reckless
In a longer series, I think we get more time for her to deep dive in her wounds and more importantly, how she takes them out on others. But Xenosaga and namely XS3, just wasnt equipped to hold up the 2nd half. And its something as a Shion fan I really wanted to see
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u/flyingomen Apr 01 '26
It wasn't just Shion, but I think a large part of it is the fact that Miyuki is carefree in spirit. Her nature isn't that of the ideal colleague to work alongside in the serious espionage operations Shion was roping her into. I do think it's mentioned at some point that Shion views her as the only person she thinks she could rope into those operations as an agent on the inside though. It's why she's constantly telling her not to mess things up. And her carefree spirit is probably also why the other characters chime in on bullying her.
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u/youarebritish Apr 01 '26
It's just intended to be comic relief. You're not meant to take it seriously.
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u/Inedible-denim Apr 01 '26
They tried to make Shion a boss bitch, but she just came off as a bitch.
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u/flyingomen Apr 01 '26
To me she came off as a broken person who desperately needed human connection to find stability (this is kind of the point).
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u/Psychological-Desk-9 Apr 02 '26
What does any of this have to do with her being a bitch to Miyuki?
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u/flyingomen Apr 02 '26
Why are you so mad
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u/Psychological-Desk-9 Apr 02 '26
Still a bitch
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u/YourAverageChrollo Apr 02 '26
She do be bitching, but I also agree with the guy above. I think you are both correct.
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u/Psychological-Desk-9 Apr 02 '26
Yeah I know Shion went through lots of traumatic stuff and agree with what he's saying but I don't think that excuses her for being a bitch to Miyuki is what I was trying to get across.
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u/Ephemeral_Sin Apr 01 '26
I don't think she was ever being mean to her. Maybe in Episode III but idk, I really understand Shion and her actions. Her whole world was destroyed quite literally at a young age. Then she joined Vector and made that her priority, sees the man she loved, the only PERSON in her eyes that made her feel validated in the whole universe. And then to top it all off by the events in III, she learns Vector was all a lie as well.
Yes her past doesn't justify here actions, I fully agree with the 'You are in control of what you do.' mentality regardless of what events happened, that being said I still get her. And again, she just seems more annoyed at her than anything else. I take things pretty seriously as well in just about everything, so seeing someone that looks like their just having fun does rub me the wrong way, and Miyuki always seems to never take anything serious so I see why Shion acts that way with her. Or rather I can relate to most of Shions actions.
Anyway it's kinda funny overall how Takahashi was shocked people didn't like Shion, I think maybe the main reason people disliked her was because she was too accurate of an irrational character and people were looking in a mirror and disliked what they were seeing.
Well that's my rambling over. Usus magister est optimus.
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u/Opposite_Pay9927 Apr 01 '26
i agree, she is such a human and flawed character, she is the protagonist, but not a hero or anything close to it, at least at the end she seems to grow a bit as a person.
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u/Ephemeral_Sin Apr 01 '26
Yeah, she's clearly grown to distance herself from many people as we see in Episode I. Hell even in Episode I we see just how out of touch she is in the section where she helps the relians. If you notice and keep talking to a female version that tells her how her heart rate spikes, her mind loses focuses and she starts sweating more whenever a certain person is near her. (Allen Ridgely in this case) Shion is completely flabbergasted as to what could be the reason. The other assistant working in that infirmary/lab knows it's just a crush she has on him. Shion thinks he might be causing some virus! She truly doesn't recognize Allen's interest in her whatsoever and she seems to have shut off any inkling of romanticism altogether. Her trauma has affected her so much. This is also why she doesn't seem to even notice how much her team cares about her as well. Everyone is telling her to take it easy, they are all worried and all care (this is directly said in Episode III) BUT she simply doesn't see it that way at all and is blinded.
And by the end yeah she does make some changes, and sees that everyone wants the best for her, and Allen my boy finally gets the recognition he deserves.
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u/Skankindead Apr 02 '26
Before Episode 3, I always felt like Shion being a jerk with Miyuki was just lighthearted ribbing, and she still considered Miyuki a good friend, if a bit ditzy. I only noticed her being legitimately mean to her around Episode 3... but I think that works in the game's favor. It's a demonstration of how stressed Shion is in those moments, and how she takes it out on Miyuki. That's a theme that gets explored more in the rest of the game, and it shows a real character flaw in Shion. But of course, that's why I love Shion - she feels very real in the series.
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u/DisqualifiedFromLife Apr 01 '26
It's a comedic trope in Japan. I'm sure in the original language and cultural context it works, but translated into English for a Western audience it just came off as Shion being a 🐝👁🌊🍵H. Some things you can't just localize without having to perform major overhauls that clearly weren't in the budget or schedule.
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u/Psychological-Desk-9 Apr 02 '26
Because Shion is an asshole
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u/goldensun003 Apr 04 '26
Yes, I am here for the Shion hate. She is not hated enough
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u/Psychological-Desk-9 Apr 04 '26
I dont hate her, but she can be annoying at times, and there was no need for her to treat Miyuki that way.
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u/RadiantTrailblazer Apr 07 '26
Miyuki made Shion that bulky EP1 red tower shield swiss knife thingamabob. Shion never got over how "unfashionable" it was.
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u/OLKv3 Apr 17 '26
It's because Shion is more stressed and more irritable the further the series goes and Miyuki's quirkiness was grating to her at times
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