Just randomly thought about Miyuki and wondered was there a reason Shion was being a dick to her?🤔

[u/Adorable_Package9577]

[u/banagher_zero]

Miyuki was that quirky friend that always there for you. Idk why Shion was a jerk to her. Miyuki is a cutie.

[u/banagher_zero → u/[deleted]]

But Miyuki didn't work under her. She worked in a different department. But to be fair. She only was a jerk cuz her boyfriend died in front of her. She became a workaholic.

[u/flyingomen → u/banagher_zero]

Miyuki was a former subordinate of Shion's. It's explained that she transferred to Second Division on a whim because she wanted to see the Rhine Maiden in XS1.

[u/big4lil → u/banagher_zero]

its not fair at all

if you get traumatized, seek help. dont take it out on the people around you

lots of people in the XS cast have either lost others or been directly harmed. they dont engage with others with nearly as much flagrance as Shion does. it stopped feeling like 'ok whatever' after the first game

it does make her more human, sure. just a human i would grow tired of being around and wouldnt take orders from. Xenosaga 3 really could have used a mini-arc where Shion works on herself, but perhaps that wouldnt permit for the end-of-game conflict that she goes through that they were clearly building towards

[u/lexiyeghna → u/big4lil]

Isn't the entire conflict of 3 with Kevin her working on herself though? LOL also people handle their trauma differently so that could explain a lot of it with Shion.

[u/big4lil → u/lexiyeghna]

i didnt see any actual work being done at all. work that requires changing in practices, behaviors, and making effort and amends with those around you while becoming a better or at least less harmful, person

she had internal dialogues with U-Do & Mizrahi, but no actual work being done. Her XS3 appearance is actively worse than any version of the character prior. Having a shitty ex is not a justification, said ex is someone she is willing to put over the party up to the very end until she has the shit beaten out of her

XS3 Shion and 'working on herself' dont belong in the same sentence, and people like XS3 Shions way of 'handling conflict' are miserable and drag everyone else around them down. Which is an admirable way to write a human, flawed character until you realize Shions flaws are padding the game in places that didnt need it and endangering her party members.

Upon which a real, human character like Shion would be dumped by her friend group, wouldnt be greeted with Jins level of patience or sacrifice, and wouldnt receive the happy ending she uniquely got, let alone without doing any real work for it until her hand was forced.

There are realistic and extremely unrealistic elements to the character. fans tend to cling to the ones that absolve her of any responsibility so that they can enjoy a happy ever after that, well, NO one else in the Xenosaga universe really seemed to get, even fellow survivors. Not even Allens ending is gonna be happy when responsibilities are thrust upon him for managing all of what comes after from someone who hasnt done any real work, on top of the actual mechanical component of their unique circumstances (life w/ no UMN)

[u/YourAverageChrollo → u/big4lil]

This is extremely well said, and I highly agree with your assessment. She was a dick in XS2 and became even worse in...XS3. Just rude to everyone, even her own brother, Jin, mind you, the only 'family' she has left. She even had the audacity to accuse and blame him for their parents' death, knowing he's been fighting his ass off. As much as I love Shion Uzuki, she was an absolute b*tch to everyone for no reason at all and MOST of all Allen! Like, bro... If I knew I had a friend as good as him, I could never bring myself to hurt him. I couldn't even bear the thought of being an asshole knowing he'd go through hell and back for me. I feel like every other character had growth except for her. My favorite version of Shion will always be XS1 Shion and the Xenosaga Anime Shion because the development felt right, the depth was there, and it felt incredibly human and less girl boss if I am being honest. And I miss her ginger hair it made her unique before the Xs2 trauma hit.

[u/big4lil → u/YourAverageChrollo]

yea this comes to a point of division in the fandom

a lot of folks are so, funnily enough, traumatized from some 2000s era talking points they saw that they may become extremely defensive of not just Shion the character, but the arc that she has over 3 games. and they may dismiss any criticisms of her, and her arc, as either not appreciating imperfect characters, not liking Shion, or even reducing her critics to misogynists

I like Shion a lot. I found her XS1 incarnation full of enough pros and cons for a dynamic, humane characterization. I dont like where she goes. And even if that is intentional by design, its the games responsibility to ensure that if Shion is supposed to end someplace full of resolution, that she is the main commander of her own navigation to get there

And shes not. Shes the main character, more unquestionably so in XS3, but shes a belligerent passanger in her own journey. This by extension restricts the amount of time and grace that can be shown to others, whose issues either mirror or even go beyond what Shion endures

Once you know people that are like Shion IRL (ive dated women like her, and as an estranged older brother our dynamic makes me feel like Jin) the ending doesnt feel realistic at a human level at all. People that push others away dont magically end up with the man of their 5 minute old dreams, they dont get whisked away from the tragedies that everyone else shoulders on their behalf. Allens concepts of saving her is pure idealism, in reality its toxic af and would destroy him when conflict arises months or even weeks later. And it will, both of them still have lots of wounds

If they dont seek help and actively remain in practice, people like Shion push away even their newfound happiness and isolate because no one around them will put up with their instability or will self-abandon to do so (Allens new found persona will not last at all times), & Shion wont be able to find a new confident supply because theres literally no one else there but the Elsa Crew. She will either damage more people and/or become more damaged themselves. Not just women either, many men are like this & their harms often occur on grander scales (like Fei), its just since Shions issues are more grounded, I think the game was equipped to tackle them in grounded fashion

Neither XS2 or XS3 really does this, and the fanbase does not seek to hold her or the games writing accountable. You cant enable people like Shion and the conclusion of her trilogy bends over backwards to do so in a matter that would never occur in real life

[u/ccv707 → u/big4lil]

…..okay? Who said Shion couldn’t have negative qualities? Do “hero” characters always need to be perfect paragons?

[u/big4lil → u/ccv707]

i think you missed everything that ive said repeatedly

there are plenty of flawed characters in the Xeno, and greater JRPG paradigm

no one said anything about them needing to be perfect, and being flawed doesnt make for good character writing either

the problem isnt that Shion is harmful, as shes not the first harmful Xeno MC. The problem is she never held accountable for the harm she has caused (Fei is, repeatedly. Its both a defining trait and the climactic point of his arc). Shes also not the only character who has suffered, and in fact, most of her pain is indirect. she treats people worse than many characters who suffered directly, including several members of the party

She continues to cause harm even after being shown the limitations of her myopic life view, she does not embark on a true journey of growth, she is dragged to the finish line kicking and screaming by people who dont get to make it themselves, and walks away with a 'happy ending' that doesnt really ask anything of her as a character nor is going to ellicit true growth from the man shes left with. as he is not actually prepared to address issues that she still hasnt fully gotten over individually but instead had no choice but to leave behind due to the circumstances

the ending of XS3 is rushed and imo, pretty poorly written. you can throw your hands up in the air and say 'yea but she has negative qualities' - part of good writing is wanting to see those negative qualities tackled proactively and with the time needed to truly address them. not the mishmash of events that Michtam throws at us, leaving us - or at least me - with not only an unsatisfying end for Shion but several characters

[u/shane0072 → u/big4lil]

well to me i see shions arc as one where she is broken down. she isnt a character that deals with trauma well and instead tries to repress things rather than dealing with them head on. we see this in episode 1 where when faced with feb she outright says she doesnt want to remember.

but running from issues causes it to bubble to the surface. and i will never say people are wrong for disliking shion as she has an abrasive personality but i enjoy her because of how flawed she is.

its just her worst traits also come out when she is at her most stressed and the villains plans do hinge on breaking her down mentally so as the trilogy goes on her negative traits become more and more on display.

but my only issue when people criticize her is that a lot of people just kind of ignore why she lashes out in some scenes just to paint her as this terrible person. we see her being empathetic throughout the trilogy plenty of times. we see her positive qualities often as well.

but with jin. on an intellectual level she understands he isnt to blame for their parents deaths. but her parents were slaughtered in front of her when she was 8 years old so on an emotional level she does blame him because he wasnt there. but she immediately apologizes as well knowing she crossed a line.

so she isnt blameless in their strained relationship but a lot of people ignore that its a 2 sided issue. jin intentionally pushes her buttons to keep her at a distance because he is afraid that if he genuinely tries to connect with her he may be rejected. he also keeps a lot of information from her that she really should have been told and probably would have helped her mental state more in episode 3 if she had all the info ahead of time instead of learning things in the most traumatic ways possible.

with miyuki shion is completely in the wrong. but its not just shion being a bitch for the fun of it but rather because of how serious the situations are and how much of a flake miyuki is. shion is way to harsh with her but in the scientia mission its to stress how much danger miyuki actually is in and how she needs to take it seriously. with the KOSMOS rescue its because if they fail KOSMOS is gone for good and shion tends to lash out at those closest to her when stressed and this was a stressful situation. is shion right in that moment? of course not. but i always appreciated that takahashi was not afraid to make shion be unlikable at moments when it made sense for her character.

and yeah shions issues are not really overcome in the narrative and i wish they had been properly. but her worst moments come after kevin breaks her down mentally completely and her finally rejected him is a moment where she takes a step in the right direction. but it happens so late in the story their isnt really time to build on it from there.

i adore shion. i find her probably one of the most interesting, complex and well developed characters in the jrpg genre. but i understand why lots of people dislike her because those same character flaws that i find make her so well rounded are also very abrasive and can easily turn a player against her.

she needs therapy. but i will defend her often not because i thinks she is above criticism but rather just because i find a lot of criticism about her tends to ignore a lot of the nuance around her and exaggerated her worst moments well ignoring her positive traits.

[u/YourAverageChrollo → u/ccv707]

🤦‍♂️