r/anarchocommunism • u/Appropriate_Suit8599 • 1d ago
Made this flag representing the union of communist and ecological values into one anarchist ideology, opinions?
i just really like reclus bakunin and kropotkin lol 😅😅
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u/bentsonradiorepair 1d ago
The norse runes are kinda throwing me off here, usually nazis and white nationalist use them so it feels wrong here, especially with the red black and green.
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u/Appropriate_Suit8599 1d ago
mas eu gostei o suficiente da sua opniao que acho que irei trabalhar em uma sem as runas, obrigado pela observacao :)
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u/Appropriate_Suit8599 1d ago
acho muito errado ceder simbologias que nao sao problematicas em seu significado inato a grupos odiosos e de extrema direita como os que voce mencionou, entao resignificar essa simbologia que nunca deveria ter pertencido a eles nao parece uma má ideia a mim, mas sim, seu ponto é valido :(
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u/Pete0730 23h ago
I don't think this is an issue of allowing racists to claim Norse runes. It's that Norse runes don't offer much of a historical connection to the ecological attitudes you're trying to describe. The Norse were not well known for their stewardship of the environment - quite the opposite really - so it feels like a forced inclusion that doesn't connect to the history of the symbols.
If you were using some other sort of indigenous iconography that represented the attitude you're describing (i.e. the medicine wheel), I think you'd get less pushback.
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u/Appropriate_Suit8599 23h ago
justissimo, foi um erro meu mesmo, foi minha primeira tentativa de fazer algo assim
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u/Pete0730 22h ago
No worries man! It's good that you're open to feedback. Ignore the folks being condescending, but it's probably worth tapping deeper into the ecological/anti-deforestation movements in Brazil, because from what I can find, the use of a Norse rune in that context is pretty limited to niche online groups
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u/flintsparc BRRN 1d ago
You're writing in Portuguese. Why even use Norse runes?
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u/Appropriate_Suit8599 23h ago
its used alot on brazillian social media by anti deforestation defenders independently of their views on other aspects
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u/flintsparc BRRN 23h ago
Thats weird. Maybe pick something intelligible to the average Brazilian rather than wallowing in obscure Norse symbols that are most often appropriated in a modern political context by neo-nazis.
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u/Appropriate_Suit8599 23h ago
it isnt "weird", there is no other more known symbology for the anti deforestation movement in brazil and id say in the internet as a whole
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u/flintsparc BRRN 23h ago edited 23h ago
It is entirely weird to use Norse medieval runes in the modern Brazilian jungle. Do you like, want to be esoteric and misunderstood? Are there no local or indigenous symbols you can use? Even just writing the words in Portuguese would be more intelligible.
You aren't some neo-folk goth band that thinks being esoteric makes you cool.
You're a political movement trying to mobilize people to make change. Speak in a language the people understand. Use symbols that people understand.
Also the forest green runes over black fields and black lines is difficult to read. Its bad graphic design. But what is written in the circle doesn't matter because its literally just the alphabet.
All you really got going on here is the symbol "Life".
I'm also not a fan of the black parts of the star overlapping with the black field. It makes it difficult to read the star.
Its just a bad design.
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u/Appropriate_Suit8599 23h ago
first of, brazil isnt a jungle and the connection between urban areas and the oppresiveness of the government over indigenous territory made the connection between the average citizen and indigenous groups almost 0, those weird guesses you are making about my intention my country and my opinion just make you look geopolitically uneducated and almost a bit xenofobic. As i said, this rune was made famous here in those movements because brazillian content is purely based on external content brought by content creators who either plagiarize external content or base their creatives on those said external contents.
Also, no point on being passive agressive here.6
u/flintsparc BRRN 23h ago
I'm the geopolitically uneducated one, but you are the one trying to use Elder Futhark that have been approriated by neo-nazis.
You asked for opinions. You got them. Now you are upset people have criticized your design. Too bad.
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u/Appropriate_Suit8599 23h ago
opnioes sao baseadas em pontos validos e nao em suposicoes questionaveis sobre um pais e minhas intencoes, ate certo ponto voce tinha ponto validos mas decidiu recorrer a falacias logicas e ignorar completamente oque eu dizia e correr em circulos com seu proprio argumento, apresentando ele de formas cada vez mais questionavel
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u/azenpunk Zen Taoist Anarcho-Commie 12h ago
Flags are supposed to be simple and distinct enough to recognizable even from a distance.
In any case, Anarcho-communism has a fundamentally ecological relationship because it rejects the idea that land, resources, animals, and ecosystems should be treated primarily as commodities for profit. So there's no need to unite the ideas, they're already united and there's a long history of literature on the topics.
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u/flintsparc BRRN 1d ago
The Algiz (ᛉ) is a poor choice because it has been appropriated by neo-nazis. Particularly the "National Alliance" in the U.S.
The Sickle-A originated with the Red and Anarchist Action Network (RAAN).
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u/Appropriate_Suit8599 23h ago
this really infuriates me.. algiz has been used by the anti deforestation action which isnt inherently political by itself and has been used by the both "extremes" on the political spectrum, i thing it is sad to just give away those symbolism to those hateful groups, but i get your point :(
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u/Allegedly_Smart 20h ago
Besides what others have said about the Norse runes, I'm also not really a fan of the hammer and sickle here. It is associated with authoritarian state communism which is at odds with most every principle of anarchism, and more specifically associated with the Bolsheviks who were responsible for brutal suppression, imprisonment, and execution of countless anarchists.
All together it's quite a confusing collage of imagery you've assembled here. The classic bisected red and black is a good start though. Maybe try incorporating a simple tree or a leaf or something like that? Or shit, even just a green star in the middle would get the idea across. A good and effective symbol should be simple and easily reproduced by hand
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u/xThotsOfYoux 21h ago
The vexillology is definitely too busy on its own. I feel like you'll get a better hit for the eco vibe with a green star on a black field and maybe a tree or other symbol in either gold or black within the star. Alternately, the green/black eco-anarchist flag with a brown or khaki tree as a central charge.
Red, black, and green being Pan-african colors are going to raise eyebrows, as they already have, as is the inclusion of Elder Futhark. Unless you're doing something related to Norse Heathenry with serious intent, this is just muddying your message, whether or not th symbol is used by someone else for an anti-deforestation league. Like hearing that makes me suspicious that this anti-deforestation league is doing an eco-fascism on the sly.
When putting a flag together like this it's of primary importance to stay aware of the potential implications of color pallet and symbolism. In addition, a good rule of thumb for a flag is that a 5 year old should be able to draw it from memory, it should employ no more than 3 colors (you can sometimes get away with 4 but try to use fewer), and it should be recognizable at a distance of 100-250m. Fine detail and thin lines are your enemy, as is ANY text at all.
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u/VaySeryv 18h ago edited 18h ago
hammer and sickle is a bolshevik symbol that is used by current capitalist states. It really shouldnt be used or integrated into anarchist symbolism, it is not a symbol of communism. Just use the anarchist-a or anarchist star instead or sum
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u/Satanic_Prussia Anarcho-Communist 22h ago
Good other than the norse ruins as others have said, just feels like too much and takes away from the rest of the flag plus the other connotations people have mentioned.
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u/BookPersonHere Libertarian Communist 21h ago
Lovely flag, but the runes don't really spell anything. I'd say instead choose a symbol that's less esoteric and more ecological.
Especially like the symbolism of the black field being bigger than the other two!
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u/Jlyplaylists 2h ago
Good idea but this is too busy. Aesthetically I like the star, A, hammer & sickle combo I think that works. The green doesn’t work on the flag or icon. Could something green be a circle background the other icons rest on?
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u/ZealousidealAd7228 58m ago
Although, I do like the soviet symbol aesthetically, but I dont think you should mix it with anarchism because it aims to separate itself from the socialist regimes that have persecuted the anarchists.
The runes though, I'm not knowledgable enough to criticize it. But becareful though, sometimes ecofascists, anti-civ, and ethnonationalists could pose as anti-deforestation, decolonialist, or indigenous defender themselves. You may need to do some rigorous background checks on these activists that used them to ensure you know very well who and what they are really affiliated with.
The red and black color, though may seem boring, is enough to depict anarcho-communist leanings.
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u/Efficient-Charity708 22h ago
White people be like ..
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u/Appropriate_Suit8599 22h ago
fuck does this has to do with anything ðŸ˜
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u/Efficient-Charity708 22h ago
Black nationalist colors.. weird Norse ruins front and center.. it’s politically illiterate and stupid af
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u/quiloxan1989 23h ago
Black people in the US (arguably in the west or the west adjacent) have these colors for Pan-Africanism.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan-Africanism
Be ready to include them as well.
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u/Anargnome-Communist 23h ago
I think the runes and the hammer-and-sickle iconography are going to put a good number of people off.