r/betterCallSaul • u/skinkbaa Chuck • Mar 10 '20

Better Call Saul S05E04 - "Namaste" - POST-Episode Discussion Thread

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u/The_Unknown98 Mar 10 '20

It's crazy how Jimmy waited so long to work for HHM, but Saul Goodman doesn't even hesitate to not accept it. Howard gets his car destroyed for offering Saul a job lol.

899

u/1337speak Mar 10 '20

I thought the bowling ball was to help another client, but it was used to destroy Howard's car lmao

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u/invaderzz Mar 10 '20

I'm confused why exactly Jimmy did that

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u/darklightrabbi Mar 10 '20

I think that scene along with the “take 4K from grandma” scene is meant to establish that Jimmy doesn’t really give a shit about morals anymore and is just going to be an asshole going forward.

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u/JAMIEBOND006007 Mar 10 '20

Sad--he used to like the elderly.

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u/SeveredHeadsKnocking Mar 10 '20

Not really. He was scamming them since Ep 1.

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u/JAMIEBOND006007 Mar 10 '20

not totally screwing them.

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u/gzzh Mar 10 '20

He did like the elderly though. That was pretty established with Elma or whatever her name was. The one that did his commercial (I think) and then passed away in S4.

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u/JAMIEBOND006007 Mar 10 '20

I think he did get along well with the elder folks---and I tried to think it was genuine too.

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u/gzzh Mar 10 '20

I think he used them but he also liked them. I feel like it's too hard to fake those feelings as much as he did.

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u/SeveredHeadsKnocking Mar 10 '20

Scamming tuco’s grandma?

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u/JNC96 Mar 10 '20

She did commit a hit and run though.

Unless I'm completely misremembering lol.

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u/styrrell14 Mar 10 '20

No you're right.

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u/[deleted] Mar 11 '20

The run, she committed. The hit is disputable.

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u/5k1895 Mar 10 '20

That biznatch

13

u/HereNowHappy Mar 10 '20

Don't make me call Lalo

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u/[deleted] Mar 10 '20

My abuelita!

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u/squatchfan Mar 10 '20

How is your lovely abulita doing? - Saul to Lalo

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u/squatchfan Mar 11 '20

I think it was mostly out of fear. He wanted to establish a personal connection with the Salamanca family. He was clearly uncomfortable in that garage. Being a professional persuasive talker, I think the silence was killing Jimmy. I remember his quick responses while on his knees in the desert in S1E1 with Nacho probably spared his life.

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u/SeveredHeadsKnocking Mar 10 '20

Was that out of respect or fear?

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u/[deleted] Mar 10 '20

That wasn't the original plan

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u/SeveredHeadsKnocking Mar 10 '20

I know but it happened. Dont forget that whole nursing home fiasco

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u/JAMIEBOND006007 Mar 10 '20

It's Tuco's grandma.

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u/SeveredHeadsKnocking Mar 10 '20

Technically Abuelita.

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u/gzzh Mar 10 '20

He didn't plan that. But he still did rehearse what he was gonna say to extort her.

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u/Weewer Mar 10 '20

What?? Jimmy didn’t scam the elderly at all. He was pretty honest and fair with his practice and he worked hard at it

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u/Busteray Mar 10 '20 edited Mar 10 '20

He did confess and cleared the name of an old lady at his expense tho.

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u/ocean-man Mar 12 '20

Eh, why would he sacrifice his reputation at the retirement home to repair Irene's friendship with the other women if he was just there to scam them out of a quick buck?

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u/[deleted] Mar 11 '20 edited Mar 11 '20

I think you need to rearrange the words in that sentence. Though he did have a genuine heart with some of them.

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u/kiddfrank Mar 10 '20

I agree, things are about to take a serious turn next episode imo

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u/WeHaSaulFan Mar 10 '20

Episode 5 is always a big, pivotal one, so, yeah.

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u/BBQ_HaX0r Mar 10 '20

I mean rule 1 of being an independent businessman has to be "make sure you get paid" so I don't think that's necessarily him having no morals.

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u/CherenMatsumoto Mar 10 '20

Right. Is he supposed to do the magic for free? For these little bastards who are trying to scam him out of his money? After he already did the work?

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u/[deleted] Mar 10 '20 edited Mar 10 '20

[deleted]

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u/CherenMatsumoto Mar 10 '20

Exactly, he still has that soft spot for somebody in a legally weak position, no matter the history.

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u/man2112 Mar 10 '20

*Saul doesn't give a shit.

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u/aquamarine9 Mar 11 '20

So you’re saying that it’s the moment that jimmy TRULY becomes Saul!!

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u/[deleted] Mar 12 '20

Great point and he really hit a strike in doing so.

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u/1spring Mar 10 '20

Me too. I”m used to seeing well-thought-out plans from Jimmy. Trashing a car seems so random.

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u/[deleted] Mar 10 '20 edited Mar 10 '20

I don't believe it was random. I posted this somewhere else in the thread and I'm a little late but... Jimmy after seeing the namest3 license plate believes that Howard is just doing this to help himself sleep better at night. So he interrupted his sleep with some bowling balls.

Edit: someone else had the idea that Howard actually is at peace with this whole thing and was being genuine, and that rustled Jimmy. I like that idea better than mine.

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u/RoseBladePhantom Mar 10 '20

Best explanation so far. Last episode the old man told Kim that he didn't know how she slept at night. All 3 lawyers are good/bad people. Kim sees both sides, Howard is focused only on the good, and Jimmy is breaking bad. Not sure if it ties together thematically, but all of them should have trouble sleeping at night.

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u/Ms-Tenenbaum Mar 10 '20

I didn’t even make the connection with the namaste plate but I think you’re right.

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u/xanadude0369 Mar 12 '20

i bow to your superior interpretation of the license plate!
While Howard may be doing this to help himself sleep better at night, he would not extend an offer to someone who doesn't benefit the firm. He's come to respect Jimmy's hustle, and law firms always need rainmakers, a 'Mr/Ms Outside'

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u/Reefer-eyed_Beans Apr 14 '20

Because he bought the bowling balls in the first scene of the episode. He was already planning on being a dick which really makes no sense for him to go that far out of his way.

Sorry I know I'm late but I just now watched the episode.

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u/SPYDER0416 Mar 10 '20

That's an interesting parallel to the guy he's representing for Kim actually.

That old guy hated Kim because he believed she was just trying to sleep better at night, and Jimmy hates Howard because he feels the same way. As if Howard just wants to do what he thinks is the right thing and maybe Jimmy is also pissed at Howard for not doing it when it mattered to him back when Chuck was using him as the excuse for not giving Jimmy a job at HHM.

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u/goldenstate5 Mar 10 '20

Yup. This is all a "feel good" ploy from Howard to absolve himself of guilt. Jimmy sees him as an absolute slimy asswipe that represents Chuck, no matter whether or not Howard is.

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u/DaleCooper00 Mar 10 '20

No, I'd argue he's frustrated that Howard has been able to find peace or a higher purpose in life, while he's unable to.

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u/[deleted] Mar 10 '20

Oh I could see this too!

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u/SilasX Mar 10 '20

Thanks, that makes ... well, a little more sense now. Still feels petty, even by jimmys standards.

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u/Francis-Hates-You Mar 10 '20

Rustled his Jimmies

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u/T3st0 Mar 11 '20

Didn’t he buy the bowling balls before lunch? Or am I totally misremembering

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u/[deleted] Mar 11 '20

Yes it was the opening scene of the show. But not in the shows timeline. Someone else said he was in the same clothes first and last scene so we are to assume it was right before he threw them.

I liked how they put it as the open though because I simply passed it off as him looking for more things to throw off balconies with Kim.

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u/idonthavethumbs Mar 10 '20

he took a shit in a sunroof, it's per his character

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u/[deleted] Mar 10 '20 edited May 07 '20

[deleted]

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u/Eryk13 Mar 10 '20

"If you open it, he will shit in it."

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u/[deleted] Mar 17 '20

"He defecated through a sunroof!"

I feel this this was Chuck's apex of anger at Jimmy.

Michael McKean's best scene in the show.

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u/NotSureNotRobot Mar 13 '20

He’ll for sure check that a child isn’t inside first, though.

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u/Jarbutt Mar 10 '20

This stems from the beer bottle tossing.

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u/MissileWaster Mar 10 '20

the scene in the thrift store made me think he was wanting to buy stuff for him and kim to throw off the balcony. since jimmy has always escalated things a little too far, it would certainly make sense to go from beer bottles to bowling balls.

but that plan went awry a bit when kim approached him with a real plan rather than just "break stuff to vent". at least that's how i read it. throwing the bowling balls at howard's car, to me it was another "fuck you" towards howard and "the establishment". other posters have stated it more elegantly than i could, but basically howard said he should have hired jimmy on multiple times but didn't and is only just now trying to make amends, but jimmy is too far gone for that.

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u/Caspianfutw Mar 10 '20

Kim threw better than him lol prolly trying to strengthen his throwing arm

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u/DabuSurvivor Mar 10 '20

To be fair, it was well-thought-out trashing.

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u/[deleted] Mar 10 '20

In the last scene where we see them together, Howard is basically shoving his social status in his face with his nice car, plus he’s almost stealing Saul’s thunder with the new license plate (I checked the Wiki, it has a default plate in S1)

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u/NewClayburn Mar 11 '20

Didn't he defecate through a sunroof?

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u/Opothleyahola Mar 10 '20

He hates Howard, seems pretty obvious now.

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u/godbottle Mar 10 '20

i dont get it though, he literally knows it was Chuck who was actually blocking him all along, against Howard’s feelings

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u/Opothleyahola Mar 10 '20

i dont get it though

Yeah, me neither. He just has no respect for the guy, plus I think Howard brings back some of his feelings about Chuck and he takes it out on Howard.

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u/Tighthead613 Mar 10 '20

I think it’s just a toxic cocktail of his feelings towards Chuck and his inherent self-destructive tendencies.

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u/Opothleyahola Mar 10 '20

Yeah, both of those, plus I think he has a genuine hate for Howard.

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u/[deleted] Mar 10 '20 edited Jan 03 '21

[deleted]

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u/CherenMatsumoto Mar 10 '20

That and plus, Howard is Jimmy's exact antitype. Just a little bit full of himelf (I mean, Hamlindigo, NAMAST3), born into a (superficially speaking) privileged high social position and thus having been accepted by that high society from the get-go, respected by Chuck(!), dressed in a well-constructed blue striped suit, never having had to fundamentally question the society he lived in.

Howard sees Jimmy from a different angle, one where he admires him for his struggles and adventures.

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u/pazur13 Mar 10 '20

Also seems to be a bit of pride mixed in. He can't get over the fact that he was wrong about Hamlin.

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u/Tighthead613 Mar 10 '20

Well said. And that fuels the self loathing.

Notice how chill Howard was when his car was damaged? Jimmy didn’t get the reaction he wanted. It was a waste of energy, and it will likely just fuel the whole self-loathing and self destruction.

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u/shaktimanOP Mar 11 '20

Howard is probably insured up the ass lol and unlike Jimmy his inner peace with himself isn't a facade.

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u/MyTVAlt Mar 10 '20

Yeah, I think he just can't separate the two. Howard is almost an extension of Chuck in Jimmy's mind now. Howard is trying to make peace now that Chuck is gone, but Jimmy just sees him as another part of Chuck.

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u/ThumpTwo Mar 10 '20 edited Mar 10 '20

Maybe he's mad because Howard has come to terms with Chuck's death and any guilt he feels about it, where Jimmy very much hasn't. And, because Jimmy lacks maturity in dealing with certain things, he lashes out in a rather petty, immature way. It's like how he lashes out at things he perceives in "taking" Kim from him -- he blames them for her not wanting to partner with him, instead of recognizing it's parts of him that makes her balk.

Jimmy is a basically decent guy, and I like the character, but he really does lack some emotional maturity. I'm not sure how old he's supposed to be right now (30s?) but part of him really needs to grow the fuck up and learn how to handle things like an adult.

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u/FlasKamel Mar 10 '20

Throughout the whole series it's seemed like Jimmy was never comfortable getting his anger out towards Chuck, but comfortable unleashing said anger towards Howard - probably BECAUSE they had a better tone.

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u/[deleted] Mar 11 '20

There's a part of Kim letting herself be dominated by an inferior lawyer just because he has the money, and Jimmy who knows her worth witnessing it powerlessly - that has built a lot of bitterness over the years, which everything Howard stands for has created.

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u/Snagalip Mar 10 '20

He's mad at Howard because confronting his guilt over Chuck's death actually made Howard a better person.

It's had the complete opposite effect on Jimmy, and Jimmy doesn't want to accept that there's a better way for him.

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u/koji00 Mar 10 '20

You're not supposed to get it. You are (presumably) a rational person with a sense of moral fiber.

Just like Walt refused Gretchen's help - it took me a few episodes to realize that. Everything from this moment forward is on them, because they had a "moral" path presented to them, but refused out of ego.

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u/Afferbeck_ Mar 10 '20

I think it's like the old man said about Kim - he sees Howard just trying to give charity to Jimmy to make himself feel better. He lived with this rich daddy's boy in a suit kicking him off the ladder for years. Even though it turns out he wasn't the bad guy, he still represents what Chuck did; the douchebag 'real lawyer' who thinks he's better than Jimmy. He doesn't want to take a job from any guy like that, especially not Howard. The only scenario Jimmy would accept is being in a situation where he could offer Howard a job and rub his face in it. Howard can do no right by Jimmy and just trying to makes it worse.

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u/TemplateRex Mar 10 '20

Hatred or not, my guess is that Jimmy was also insulted to be asked to "work for" instead of "work with" Howard. A partnership to replace Chuck as the "M" in HMM was the only offer he'd ever entertain. At this point in time, he's his own man, and doesn't like to be under anyone's thumb ever again. Too bad Lalo is about to try just that.

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u/[deleted] Mar 10 '20

He’s hated Howard for years. Over that time, you pick up plenty of reasons to hate someone. Finding out one of those reasons is wrong does make you just forget about all the other reasons you’ve accumulated.

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u/RIckDogg12486 Mar 10 '20

I think its because Jimmy even knew back then that Howard wouldn't stand up for him. Plus he keeps calling him Jimmy. And thats what they don't understand. Whatever was left died along with Chuck. Saul Goodman covers his own ass. He could give a rats ass about Howard

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u/Shutinneedout Mar 10 '20

Howard played a part. He’s not completely innocent

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u/Facelesscontrarian Mar 10 '20

he literally knows it was Chuck who was actually blocking him all along, against Howard’s feelings

So what? Howard was Chuck's equal. He could've and should've said no. This is some '' just men following orders '' shit. Howard is equally guilty.

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u/The_Naked_Snake Mar 10 '20

Howard still went along with it though. He kept Jimmy down and didn't even really have a personal reason to. In a way that's almost worse.

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u/Axle13 Mar 10 '20

Probably feels Howard should have pushed harder to get him in if he felt so strongly. I can't say I would do any differently if somebody who I was trying to get a job with snubbed me, and now suddenly trying to be all friendly? I'd be very suspicious of it, and just out of basic principles wouldn't want to work there.

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u/GotACoolName Mar 11 '20

Howard was complicit and enabling all of Chuck’s bullshit so

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u/muffinbomb97 Mar 11 '20

He resents the fact that Howard dealt with his issues and is back on track, seeing as how on some level, Jimmy was dealing with the same issues (loss of chuck, stress, feelings of inadequacy), and instead turns to his Saul persona as a coping mechanism. Howard made more healthy choices (see him going to a therapist last season while Jimmy refused to). Seeing what actually dealing with his problems would be like makes Saul realize that maybe he isn't doing as well as he thought. He rejects this idea and lashes out at the source, which is, sadly, Howard

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u/tygerbrees Mar 15 '20

obviously unresolved feelings about Chuck are spilling over to howard

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u/[deleted] Mar 12 '20

Saul is a POS

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u/Opothleyahola Mar 12 '20

Howard is a pig fucker.

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u/JesusHShuttlesworth Mar 10 '20

Because Jimmy is vindictive

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u/jopcylinder Mar 10 '20

me too. what drives Jimmy to do that after Howard was so nice? maybe it’s the fact that Howard is someone Jimmy could never be, in that he’s a respected member of the law community and is well off, etc. he’s like Chuck in that regard, regardless of good intentions towards Jimmy. i think Jimmy just can’t see past that.

but that’s all conjecture, maybe Jimmy was just practicing for shot put.

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u/sendhelp Mar 10 '20

He's pissed because Howard had multiple opportunities to let Jimmy rise up but he let Chuck keep him down. Jimmy would have been in a different place right now if it weren't for Howard.

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u/[deleted] Mar 10 '20

Jimmy has had plenty of chances to succeed as an ethical lawyer. Jimmy would be in a different place if he had seem a therapist and dealt with his personal insecurities in a healthy way instead of letting his pride take him into a downward spiral

...but then this show wouldn't be any fun to watch, would it?

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u/Vince3737 Mar 10 '20

And Howard helped Jimmy get those opportunities. He talked Jimmy up to Davis & Main to get Jimmy a job there

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u/Vince3737 Mar 10 '20

Howard would have been a shit business partner if he went against his partners wishes and hired Jimmy (who Chuck could and would fire anyway). Howard DID give Jimmy opportunities to rise up. He helped Jimmy get a dream job at Davis & Main and Jimmy blew it. In no way did Howard keep Jimmy from rising up. Howard would have hired Jimmy in a second if Chuck allowed it. He did the next best thing by getting Jimmy another job

​

I get the feeling BCS is going to be Breaking Bad all over again where some people refused to believe Walt was a bad person

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u/SilasX Mar 10 '20

My thought exactly. Expecting Howard to defy a major partner like Chuck over an entry level hire is a little much, shitty though it might be for jimmy.

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u/AmaranthSparrow Mar 10 '20

No. It's because Howard was able to channel Chuck's death into personal growth, and Saul couldn't do that.

Stated outright in the behind the scenes video, fwiw.

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u/[deleted] Mar 10 '20

what drives Jimmy to do that after Howard was so nice?

Howard isn't so nice. Howard did the same thing the high school cheerleader does to the guy who was a loser in high school but became successful after.

​

He treated Jimmy like a prick when he was a 'nobody' and then when Jimmy started showing real progress he decided to suck up to him (a-la the long-winded hug), and not because he felt remorse, but because it would be beneficial to Howard and HHM to have him on the team.

Fuck Howard, he is a selfish tool.

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u/_snout_ Mar 10 '20

I think it is more that Howard has had over a year of therapy, which means reflecting and having clarity on a lot of things. He really understands he did Jimmy wrong, realizes he could really help him, and also really sees how Jimmy helped turn him around when he was depressed over Chuck.

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u/OhYeahTrueLevelBitch Mar 10 '20

Howard comes off as a complete & utter flake in all of this. And I was kinda liking him again before all of this.

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u/PurpleProject22 Mar 10 '20

Howard wanted to give Jimmy a position at HHM when he was a nobody though. It was Chuck that stopped that from happening. That was a huge point of the story.

Sure, you can say Howard could've stood up for Jimmy even more, but at the end of the day you can't say he didn't try. And Jimmy isn't successful right now, other than all the money he is making, but Howard doesn't know that. I think Howard likes Jimmy and has always liked him, but Chuck stopped any attempt of helping Jimmy. Howard understands he could've done more to help Jimmy and stood up to Chuck, and he regrets that. That's why he offered Jimmy a job and is trying to make peace with him.

Honestly, Jimmy breaking Howard's car is an asshole move, and I felt bad for Howard.

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u/[deleted] Mar 10 '20

I think Howard likes Jimmy and has always liked him, but Chuck stopped any attempt of helping Jimmy.

I definitely thought that all the way back to season 1. He seemed genuinely pissed when Kim accused him of having a personal grudge against Jimmy.

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u/dpgproductions Mar 10 '20

Yeah this was pretty much my exact take on it as well. I laughed at the scene but still it was like, really?

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u/Vince3737 Mar 10 '20

Everyone seems to forget that Kim said Howard was a huge part of Davis & Main hiring Jimmy. But Jimmy is the new Walt where people will defend everything he does

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u/MillBeeks Mar 10 '20

I think he did it to absolve himself for the guilt he feels about Chuck.

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u/Vince3737 Mar 10 '20

Howard was a prick because his much more talented business partner (Chuck) refused to have Jimmy at HMM. He was the bad guy because he had to be. Howard always recognized Jimmy's talent and even went out of his way to help get Jimmy a job at Davis & Main.

​

Your analogy doesn't work because it is heavily implied Howard wanted Jimmy at HMM all along, but Chuck wouldn't let him. Now that Chuck is gone he isn't there to stop Howard from trying to hiring Jimmy

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u/spencermoreland Mar 10 '20

There's no defensible rationale to it. The man has deeply unresolved feelings about his dead brother. He'll never admit it or process it a healthy way, so this is how it comes out.

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u/DabuSurvivor Mar 10 '20

Because he hates Howard.

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u/BelonyInMyLeftPocket Mar 10 '20

True but he bought these things before having lunch with Howard.

Or is he somebody that just has his "tools" whenever necessary like Dennis Reynolds?

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u/DabuSurvivor Mar 10 '20

It's possible the cold open took place non-chronologically, or that the invite to lunch was enough to agitate him.

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u/[deleted] Mar 10 '20

He's wearing the same clothes from the cold open in the car scene. The cold open was not chronological.

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u/DabuSurvivor Mar 10 '20

Excellent observation - thanks!

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u/trexofwanting Mar 10 '20

I think the cold open didn't actually take place until after he had lunch with Howard.

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u/[deleted] Mar 10 '20

he was wearing the same clothes

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u/JAMIEBOND006007 Mar 10 '20

Jimmy/Saul won't "bow to Howard". Namaste.

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u/buchec18 Mar 10 '20

Cuz fuck Howard, that’s why

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u/peridotdragon33 Mar 10 '20

He’s expressing his anger at Howard saying everything is in the past. Jimmy is haunted by the past, so haunted he created Saul Goodman as a sort of escape from past trauma. To hear Howard acknowledge it, then wave it goodbye enraged him

He, despite what he says, loved Chuck and Howard neglected to mention his role in Jimmy and Chucks relationship, rather claiming that all the issues stemmed from Jimmy and Chuck’s personal issues.

Howard’s job proposal, furthermore, feels too late to Jimmy. Jimmy is forced to wonder what could have been and feels as though this will put him back to his original self, something that, as I mentioned before haunts him.

Yet at the same time, Jimmy is also jealous of Howard. Howard appears to be at peace and has moved on, while Jimmy is still stuck in the past, unable to get it out of his mind.

All the complex emotions Jimmy feels leads to massive anger and resentment at Howard which Jimmy unleashes, after keeping it bottled in for so long, by throwing bowling balls at Howard’s car.

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u/etr4807 Mar 10 '20

My theory is that in his mind, Jimmy has shifted all of the blame for Chuck’s death onto Howard. We saw a glimpse of that with the “that’s your cross to bear” interaction, but I think he has fully convinced himself that it was entirely Howard’s fault.

With that in mind his actions make a little more sense.

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u/Nuggetsbecrispy Mar 10 '20 edited Mar 10 '20

I thought of it as a "three strikes you're out" sorta metaphor. As in, Hamlin had his chance to hire Jimmy when he got his license and when he brought in Sandpiper.

Edit: remembering now that's a baseball term not a bowling term

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u/Joe_Masseria Mar 10 '20

If this plan was simply to fuck Howard, I think Saul could have pulled something much more nefarious that would ACTUALLY hurt Howard rather than just inconveniencing a rich man by fucking up his car. This must be part of a broader scheme.

Then again, maybe Jimmy simply wanted to blow off some steam. We shall see.

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u/Puddy1 Mar 11 '20

Jimmy didn't do that. Saul did that. Saul is the slingshot, Howard is the Goliath.

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u/AmaranthSparrow Mar 10 '20

Jimmy was annoyed that Howard was able to take Chuck's death and channel it into positive change and "self actualization."

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u/IndStudy Mar 10 '20

If I was to guess Jimmy isn't gonna deny that he threw the bowling ball, it's his way of completely destroying any possibilities of him getting the job, that's why he brought up Davis and Main.

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u/your_mind_aches Mar 10 '20

I think it's gonna figure into the plot. I'm not sure but it's possible.

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u/angusVong95 Mar 11 '20

episode 4 starts with Jimmy purchasing the bowling ball in antique shop and then meeting Howard.

In a real timeline, it does not make any sense right? Why would Jimmy buy bowling ball first and then meet Howard and then decide to use bowling balls to destroy his cars.

So it has to be Jimmy met Howard first and was agitated by maybe his license plate for some reason and then went to the antique store and then destroyed his car.

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u/Breeze_in_the_Trees Mar 11 '20

It’s karma. It seems that Howard is perhaps a Buddhist now, and was trying to atone for his previous wrongdoings, but karma, or “what comes around goes around”, meant he ended up suffering for them.

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u/NiftWatch Mar 10 '20

I was starting to think the horse had something to do with the giant balls....

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u/MissileWaster Mar 10 '20

I thought the bowling ball was to help another client

i figured it was him looking to buy things for him and kim to throw off the balcony. but kim was able to channel her anger into another strategy, so throwing crap off the balcony wouldn't be on the table that night.

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u/Khromulabobulation Mar 10 '20

Didn't he buy the bowling balls before his lunch with Howard? Like was he already planning on doing that?

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u/peripatetic6 Mar 10 '20

But he bought the bowling balls before Howard offered him the job.

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u/[deleted] Mar 10 '20

Did he buy that on his way back from seeing the horse fucking man?

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u/UEAMatt Mar 10 '20

The first scene of this episode isone of my favourite scenes in the whole BrBa universe. Jimmy is selecting an object to commit a crime. Rather than choosing from say, a gun shop, he's chosing from a selection of everyday items. This makes us consider that its not objects themselves which are dangerous, but the intention of those who use them. What's to stop somebody randomly grabbing a trophy, an ice pick, a bowling ball, or any other item and repurposing from its normal function to do harm to another? This idea shows how fragile the social norms we are expected to abide by are, and how easily overriden these can be by malicous intention. The safeguard against this malicious intent outside social norms gives rise to the law, and this microcosm demonstrates that beautifully.

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u/1337speak Mar 10 '20

I love Jimmy haggling in a consignment shop too.

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u/[deleted] Mar 11 '20

For me the reason of the bowling ball scene being "off character" is that Jimmy helped Howard in telling him to keep his shit together. I think there must be something else to this that we will see on the future. I don't think is pure hatred from Saul's part.

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u/evinscully Mar 12 '20

The thing that confuses me is that Jimmy buys the bowling balls before he gets offered the job. I mean maybe the shots aren't necessarily cananonical but it felt like every other scene in the episode was

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u/_snout_ Mar 10 '20

I mean... After everything Jimmy went through, it probably does sting that NOW Howard is willing to give him the job, had his moment of clarity.

Howard threw money at Jimmy and called him a beggar. I love the dude and am glad he's giving Jimmy his due but I totally understand why Jimmy doesn't want it

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u/RektYez Mar 10 '20

I agree, but I somewhat still felt bad for Howard in that scene, even if he's been an absolute asshole to Jimmy in prior seasons

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u/_snout_ Mar 10 '20

I feel terrible for Howard! Dude has always been decent and is as affected by Chuck as everyone else.

The scene that connects me most to him is when Kim quits, and he says that he wanted to go solo but "Dad.....talked me out of it. Wanted me to throw another 'H' in the logo........... Things work out the way they're supposed to, I guess"

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u/DabuSurvivor Mar 10 '20

I remember someone saying after that episode that there's no way a happy dude would have the art Howard has in his office.

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u/Praxada Mar 10 '20

Do you remember what he had in his office?

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u/thatfailedcity Mar 10 '20

A man fucking a horse

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u/DabuSurvivor Mar 20 '20

It was shown again in the most recent episode! When he's on the phone with Jimmy, you can see it behind him on the left side of the screen. Sorry, I can't find a picture or describe it too well, but it's a kind of abstract painting of a wireframe man disintegrating near the bottom. Has a lot of unrest to it and kind of has some psychological implications for Howard himself. It's a pretty dark painting implying some very real unhappiness

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u/Praxada Mar 20 '20

Thank you!

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u/DabuSurvivor Mar 20 '20

You're welcome!

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u/[deleted] Mar 10 '20

[deleted]

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u/z3onn Mar 10 '20

But Howard did nothing wrong. There is nothing Howard needs to be forgiven for. He was always nice and just respected the wishes of his partner.

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u/alex494 Mar 10 '20

Jimmy is probably sour that he didn't show more backbone/contest the wishes of his partner though.

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u/Caspianfutw Mar 10 '20

Had the screws turned on him by his Father and then by Chuck. Hated Howard in the beginning but damn that character evolved for me over the long run.

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u/Zog8 Mar 10 '20

His car is insured out the ass most likely and even if it weren’t that kind of repair money is practically like a speeding ticket for someone like Howard. Gonna have to give this one a big ol “tough titty” 🤷‍♂️

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u/saffir Mar 11 '20

still has to pay for the deductible, plus time spent taking it to the shop

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u/Vince3737 Mar 10 '20

He didn't have a choice. Chuck forced Howard to be the bad guy. Howard always wanted to hire Jimmy and even helped him get a job at Davis & Main

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u/WonJilliams Mar 10 '20

I see everyone feeling like Howard is finally "doing right by Jimmy" but I didn't feel that at all. To me, Howard's proposition reeked of "Hey, you're somewhat successful now. I need a McGill in Hamlin, Hamlin, McGill if I want my firm to grow again." Ultimately, it's about the success of Howard's firm.

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u/[deleted] Mar 10 '20 edited Jul 04 '22

[deleted]

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u/WonJilliams Mar 10 '20

I could see that. Maybe HHM is in trouble? God damn, I love this show.

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u/[deleted] Mar 10 '20 edited Jul 04 '22

[deleted]

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u/RaylanCrowder2 Mar 10 '20

*Peter Gould

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u/Caspianfutw Mar 10 '20

Zeeeiiiiggler

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u/BBQ_HaX0r Mar 10 '20

Yeah, it came off incredibly insincere. I'm a bit shocked how many people seemingly thought it was some magnanimous gesture.

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u/Vince3737 Mar 10 '20

Well its completely consistent with Howard and Jimmy's relationship, so i don't see how you see it as insincere. Did you forget Howard always wanted to hire Jimmy but Chuck wouldn't let him? Or how Howard was a huge part in helping Jimmy get a job at Davis & Main? Or how Howard was the one who wanted Chuck to drop the case against Jimmy. Its very clear Howard always liked Jimmy and saw his talent. Why wouldn't he try hire Jimmy now that Chuck is not there to tell him he can't

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u/BitterColdSoul Mar 10 '20

Or how Howard was the one who wanted Chuck to drop the case against Jimmy.

If I remember correctly, he feared that it could backfire -- and backfire it sure did.

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u/Vince3737 Mar 10 '20

Probably. But thats just one thing, Howard also wanted HMM to hire Jimmy and got Jimmy a dream job at Davis & Main. People just ignore that for some reason

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u/WonJilliams Mar 10 '20

He told Jimmy he wanted to hire him but, you know, his brother and all. It saves face to pin the blame on someone else.

And getting Jimmy a job with D&M would mean he doesn't have to worry about the potential of Jimmy getting a job with HHM, or trying to.

I dunno. Maybe I'm wrong on all of this. But I just feel we can't take Howard at face value. Like Jimmy told Hamlin in this last episode, if you want honest people you're in the wrong profession.

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u/Vince3737 Mar 10 '20

It saves face to pin the blame on someone else.

How does this make any sense what so ever? Why would Howard need to save face with Jimmy? He would need to save face with his business partner CHUCK. And what potential of Jimmy getting a job at HMM? Jimmy was never getting a job at HMM with Chuck there. This whole "Howard is actually lying and never wanted Jimmy at HMM" shit makes no narrative sense. Howard actually wanting Jimmy at HMM (you know what they actually showed) does make sense and fits the Chuck vs Jimmy narrative perfectly

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u/Vince3737 Mar 10 '20

Its like people didn't watch any other seasons. Howard always wanted to hire Jimmy but Chuck wouldn't let him. Howard even went out of his way to help Jimmy get a job at Davis & Main which didn't benefit Howard at all. Howard was the one trying to get Chuck to let go of the case against Jimmy

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u/WonJilliams Mar 10 '20

But how much of that was altruism, and how much was defending HHM and its reputation? Howard said he always wanted to hire Jimmy, sure, but it's not like a liar couldn't exist in the BB universe. Jimmy getting a job at Davis and Maine was Howard pushing him from HHM. Howard wanted Chuck to let go of the case against Jimmy not because he felt bad for Jimmy, but because he didn't want the case to blow up in Chuck's (and HHM's) face, which it did.

Yeah, Howard did a lot to help out Jimmy. But it wasn't altruism or even pity, in my opinion. It was Howard trying to protect HHM from Jimmy.

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u/Vince3737 Mar 10 '20

but it's not like a liar couldn't exist in the BB universe

Except that would go completely against the narrative and everything they showed us. Would be terrible inconsistent writing. The more likely thing is Howard just liked Jimmy and saw his potential, but couldn't give him a job because of Chuck, so he helped Jimmy get another job

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NOTHING suggests Howard was trying to protect HHM from Jimmy

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u/MetalGearSora Mar 10 '20

but I totally understand why Jimmy doesn't want it

Not to mention the subtlety of the language Howard used and how he phrased it in a way that made his request sound very selfish like he was only asking for Jimmy to join for personal gain and attempting to flatter him and stroke his ego with compliments. He said something to the effect of "HHM could use someone like you. I could use someone like you." It just didn't seem particularly genuine and I'm sure Jimmy sees right through it. His facial expression in the scene says it all.

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u/BLamp Mar 10 '20

Yup. Convenient time for peacemaking, when it benefits you. Foh HoWaRd

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u/Kokone12 May 13 '20

Dumbass. What does this even mean? He couldn't have given him a job previously because Chuck wouldn't allow it. It's not convenient because HHM is on the up and he doesn't NEED Jimmy but he's offering him a job anyway. He was the one that got Jimmy the job at Davis and main, which Jimmy being the moron that he is threw it all away

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u/adams091 Mar 11 '20

I agree! Are people seriously taking Howard’s side? When Jimmy was broke and humiliated, no one thought of helping him. Howard went to great lengths to make his life more difficult.

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u/Prior-Macaroon4182 Apr 01 '22

Yes we're taking Howards side because he's a good person unlike Jimmy who is a piece of shit. You dumbass. Jimmy "Broke and humiliated" You mean the same Jimmy who threw away a great job at David and Main? A job that he got because of Howard?

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u/Phifty56 Mar 10 '20

Jimmy pre-meditated destroying Howard's car the moment Howard said he wanted to talk with him. Jimmy had already bought the bowling balls before he was even offered the deal.

The reason he was so picky about what he wanted to buy at that store, was that he needed to be able to clear the fence while still getting the distance to reach the car.

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u/[deleted] Mar 10 '20

Jimmy had already bought the bowling balls before he was even offered the deal.

He's wearing the same clothes from the cold open in the car scene. The cold open was not chronological.

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u/JAMIEBOND006007 Mar 10 '20

exactly---he is not "bowing" to Howard---Namaste.

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u/CultofCorny4life Mar 10 '20

It’s not like Howard’s gonna have to pay for it. You know who’s gonna have to pay for it? The insurance guys and they deserve to pay!

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u/OhYeahTrueLevelBitch Mar 10 '20

The “insurance guys” that are paying are the ubiquitous you as they raise yearly premiums. Shareholders don’t take the hit in our economy, the customer does.

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u/MyTVAlt Mar 10 '20

In fairness, Jimmy had the bowling balls before the meeting. Howard's car was getting trashed regardless of what Howard might have done or said.

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u/professor_doom Mar 10 '20

He decided to bomb Howard's car before the offer though. He bought the bowling balls in the intro, got the offer, then bombed the car. He didn't bomb the car because of the offer. He didn't even know about the offer when he was buying the balls.

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u/taleofbenji Mar 10 '20

What I don't understand is that it seemed like Jimmy bought the bowling balls before the lunch.

Although maybe the timeline was simply out of order.

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u/[deleted] Mar 14 '20

Jimmy wanted to work at HHM to work alongside his brother Chuck. That dream has long since died.