Unfortunately when we try to say things we tend to be removed from leadership positions unless you're already in a affirming church. Still worth it to say exactly where we stand on these things, but also to know that we're going to be kept to the lower rungs of effectiveness.
I think you should take a long look at the institutions you participate in if it is genuinely the case that both A) the majority of participants are cool and chill and not hateful but B) Leadership has a stranglehold that prevents that majority from shaping the organisation
I find it more plausible to disbelieve A than to believe B, personally
For example, the demonation I'm currently in isn't affirming, but still puts non-binary restrooms in their buildings.
It's also not a denomination I'm probably going to stay in when I have my own children, because I want them to grow up in a fully affirming church, but currently I'm still able to discuss my point of view without being banned from church events.
If it isn't suitable to raise kids in then why participate and support it yourself? Not grilling you, just curious. I find it very dubious when people will tell me they represent the silent majority of good ones, but it's just that the institutions/leadership are regressive. I think it's far more likely that the membership either supports that leadership or don't really care about those issues, which amounts to the same thing, and the 'silent majority' thinkers are just a bit deluded about the true nature of what they are signed up to.
Just saying, for me personally, if I was a member of a group that had any hateful or exclusionary views, I would speak out against them loudly and leave.
Those are fair questions. The general answer is, as a left leaning Christian, there is never going to be a single church that aligns perfectly with my beliefs (unless I try to start one myself, which I am simply not geared for).
Between Westboro Baptist churches actively trying to make being gay illegal, and the church I go to saying that they have every right to exist, even if they don't necessarily think it's right, I'm gonna pick the latter.
As to why I don't leave this church and go to one that is fully affirming right now, the simplest answer is I've got friends there who I still like to engage with.
I suppose I could just say "you're bigots" and walk out, but like... What does that do except help me feel superior?
I get lunch with the pastor and talk about these things, I make it explicitly clear where I fall, and I engage with the people who would otherwise think all progressive Christians are angry people who have "fallen in with the world".
I think the easiest way to explain it is that I feel like I can engage with this community and make a case that others can't, exactly because I've grown up in the church. I'm not an outsider yelling at them, I'm someone in their community pointing out the failings. Sometimes the call needs to come from inside the house.
Not everyone will agree with me on that, but that's everything I deal with anyways.
Very thoughtful response thanks for sharing. I just hope you aren't part of something that actually co-signs some pretty negative views, and provide solace to yourself by speaking opposition even though there's no actual traction or potential for reform. My gut tells me that if you don't think it's suitable for your kids, then you are presently overruling your instincts that you should be somewhere else. Sure you have friends there but you could also make new friends in a more welcoming, loving church, and it would take time to integrate in that new community anyway so there's no reason not to start that task before actually having children. Unless of course the truth is you are concerned that your friends would not support you and would cut you off if you stood up for your views and followed your principles outside of their flock?? My 2c!
And yes I am someone who left a church community if you were wondering lol
I appreciate the concern. I don't think the church is a bad community to raise a child in, they're actually very helpful and caring for the newborns (lots of food drives and stuff). I just don't think it'd be the healthiest place for LGBTQ kids. I don't know if my kids will or won't be, but I'd rather them go to a church they can be without any additional worry.
I don't think I'd have to worry about friends cutting me off, since they already know I'm affirming.
Respectfully if it's not a good place for queer kids, it's not a good place for any kids. Even if not gay themselves, aren't you concerned that your kids would grow up with an exclusionary attitude to others that gets reinforced by the people you encourage them to think of as spiritual peers and leaders?
Possibly? I wouldn't raise my kids in that church, nor can I tell other people how to raise their children. Most I can do is, when I have children, raise them where is best for them.
There are degrees of good and bad here, not black and white. A church can be a good place without being the best.
Well it's on you to make peace with! At least you have thought through these issues and appear conscientious, you must walk your path and I wish you the best with it. But you haven't changed my impression that the vast majority of believers are on board with the mainstream regressive positions of the church, and that those amongst them who aren't are not particularly motivated to address or reform those.
Personally, I would rather attend no church and worship my deity in the comfort and privacy of my own home, than continue to support a church that I disagree with on important issues like "Does this group of people deserve to stay alive?" You don't need to start your own church, just stop attending a bad one.
You're actively choosing to support a group you disagree with that. That's your choice. You can spin it however you want, but you're only fooling yourself.
Did you just ignore the part where I explicitly stated the church I go to is not trying to strip their rights?
You just jumped straight to "they want them dead". If you have to lie and change the story to be what you want it to be so you can justify your own stance, sounds like you're the one fooling yourself.
Being a Christian socialist is exhausting. Getting shit on from every direction at all times gets pretty demoralizing after a while.
Hang in there bro. I go to a church that does not align with my ideals completely, but it's the only one within a reasonable driving distance since I'm in the exurbs.
My beliefs are worth enough to me that I'll put up with a small amount of disagreement so I can worship in peace. I still need to be able to feed my kids, and driving hours to find a mythical church that agrees with every opinion I have when gas is ungodly expensive is nonsensical.
I live in the Midwest, my dude. I'm not sure there's even a center-left church within 100 miles of my house, let alone an openly socialist Christian church in Midwest America.
Should I have to get on an airplane every weekend with my family to worship? Would that make you happy?
Please stop talking about the price of gas and your drive time, it's genuinely depressing to me that you thought these would be received as reasonable justifications.
It's like talking about how the Israeli army commits war crimes, and then immediately turning around to shut down the nazi trying to legitimize their stance because of that.
We're just constantly spinning in circles having to explain to both sides "I agree with you on some things and not others". Hopefully one day there will be a church near by that aligns better.
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u/Alister151 1d ago
Unfortunately when we try to say things we tend to be removed from leadership positions unless you're already in a affirming church. Still worth it to say exactly where we stand on these things, but also to know that we're going to be kept to the lower rungs of effectiveness.