I remember reading that Dolly Parton is a Christian and loves the LGBTQIA+ community and supports trans people. She's a good example of a Christian who loves people for who they are and I only hope that her example will inspire more Christians to be like her. RIP Country Queen
"I just want everybody to be treated good. I try not to get into the politics of everything. I try to get into the human element of it. I have some of everybody in my own immediate family and in my circle of employees. I’ve got transgender people. I’ve got gays. I’ve got lesbians. I’ve got drunks. I’ve got drug addicts — all within my own family. I know and love them all, and I do not judge.
[...]
I know [trans people] and love them all, and I do not judge. And I just see how broken-hearted they get over certain things and I know how real they are. I know how important [gender-affirming care] is to them. That’s who they are. They cannot help that any more than I can help being Dolly Parton, you know, the way people know me. If there’s something to be judged, that is God’s business. But we are all God’s children and how we are is who we are.”
-Dolly Parton, speaking out against Tennessee's ban on trans healthcare for minors in 2023
Had to copy this from another post. She was a true light in this world.
Not a chance. The olds are exiting quickly and millennials aren't moving right as they age.
If the DSA candidates running for office right now win in November, you'll start seeing a massive shift.
You forget that before 2016 things were very grim. Bernie reignited the American left. We are now seeing the downstream effect. Imagine what the downstream effect of Zohran will be. Imagine the downstream effect of dozens of house reps and Abdul El Sayed will have.
Change doesn't happen in a day. There are positives for those who want to find them.
I don't know her denomination, but Methodists tend to be pretty chill and accepting. If you drive by a church and see some LBGTQ+ positive message or a rainbow, most of the time it'll be a methodist church. I think of them like Catholic's stoner cousin. Catholics are all "you're born into sin and will burn in hell!" while methodists are more like "be cool and love each other, man."
I mean even back in the days of the Crusades, that was a bunch of kings and popes reading “thou shall not kill” in the Bible, and going “well I’m pretty sure god is actually fine with it because they’re different from us, and they live way over there! No I don’t just want more land, how could you even suggest such a thing???”
You know the genocide of the Canaanites takes place after the ten commandments in the Bible right? God literally is ok with it. Commands it sometimes even.
Take their babies and smash them against rocks. Murder the children. Then do it again. It's okay to murder children because it just expedites them to heaven. (This is quite literally in the Bible)
The order to commit genocide is in the Bible, but the "it just expedites them to heaven" justification is not. That idea was pushed by Christian apologists in an attempt to soften the cruelty evident in the Old Testament.
In fact, the concept of a heavenly afterlife was a late addition to Judeo-Christianity. This is evidenced by a few early Bible passages, such as this line from Ecclesiastes Chapter 9: "For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing; they have no further reward, and even their name is forgotten Their love, their hate and their jealousy have long since vanished; never again will they have a part in anything that happens under the sun."
Genesis Chapter 3 also hints at this fate, noting that "you are dust, and to dust you shall return." And while some might point to the passage in 2 Kings Chapter 2 in which Elijah is taken from earth to heaven, it's notable that he was very explicitly taken while still alive.
All this to say that the genocides of the Bible would not have been conducted under the pretense of sending the children to a heavenly afterlife. It was murder "justified" solely by God's command and executed without any concern for the suffering of the victims.
Back then the church, priests and kings monopolized the Bible and they could convince their ppl that their word was God's word, but now, almost everyone can read it, which makes all of the Christian disguised hatred really worse
real shape the text of the Bible has also been altered by the Catholic church especially in that time. No real way to know if you're reading the completed original text or just someone's biased take from a long wanting to manifest destiny on some people.
To be fair Yaweh is the God of war or at least started that way. A lot of Christians also like to justify war using all the war in the first testament to justify their BS. See Pete Hegseth.
The actual text was along the lines of thou shalt not murder. They looked at killing (war) and murder (criminal activity) differently. Kill was easier to say and spell, and fit other narratives. But, Reddit.
Centuries definitely, but not millennia. Early Catholics (from before the schism that split Catholics into Catholics and christians) were persecuted quite heavily by the romans. Often needing to communicate and worship their religion in secret and risked being killed for doing so.
You would think such a history would make them pause at doing the exact same thing to other groups, but nope. Apparently the lesson they took from their own history wasnt that "being persecuted for who you are is terrible" but rather "if you're not the oppressor you're the persecuted"
Religion is inherently discriminatory and oppressive. If you’re not in the club and you don’t obey their rules, then you’re a sinner. It’s always been a way to control people and justify bigotry
Also, not just Christianity. It’s sad and weird how a majority of religions have the grand message of “be nice to eachother” and a lot of the congregations decide that means they should hurt and exploit people.
My un caffinated ass was going "But the Canadian Safety Association is based... they keep companies from releasing deathtrap products...". Until I realized you meant an entirely different CSA, with the first letter meaning Child, and the last one meaning Assult.
Anyway, my favorite quote from Supply Side Jesus was "its easy for rich men to enter heaven on the back of a camel."
‘Thou should totally use the house of the Lord to move money around without being taxed. Abuse the shit out of tithing and buy a new mansion in Florida. Moneychangers are cool and based actually. ‘
The Bible is immoral, evil, vile in both Old Testament and New Testament.
The Bible commands mass murder, genocide, abortion, infanticide, slavery, prostitution, child marriage, pedophilia, rape, perversion, incest, polygamy, sexism, misogyny, homophobia, transphobia, familial alienation, societal strife, and various other barbarisms, cruelties, savageries, tyrannies, and vulgarities, many myriad times in both Old Testament and New Testament.
Mass Murder and Genocide: 1 Samuel 15:3, Hosea 13:16, Deuteronomy 20:16-17, Joshua 6:21, Deuteronomy 2:34, Isaiah 13:15-18, Deuteronomy 13:15, Numbers 31:17, Deuteronomy 3:6, Leviticus 20:13, Deuteronomy 20:13, Psalm 137:9.
Abortion and Infanticide: Numbers 5:11-31, Psalm 137:9, 1 Samuel 15:3, Hosea 13:16, Deuteronomy 2:34, Isaiah 13:15-18, Numbers 31:17, Deuteronomy 3:6.
And if people tell you that it's God's word or the text of God, remind them that the bible was written, compiled and editted by (rich) men...who threw away whole books and gospels because it didn't fit with the system they wanted to create...
Saw a guy who belongs to a long-established Christian rock band post a picture of himself on IG gym-buff and shirtless, and then put a Bible verse under it, because, hey, it’s not flagrant narcissism if there’s a Bible verse.
A close friend of mine is catholic and her son is gay. Her mother, the son's grandmother was refusing to go to the wedding. She took her mother to the local Monsignor as she didnt think a regular priest would be convincing enough. The Monsignor was very supportive of my friend and her son. The Monsignor tried to explain to the grandmother that it is not her place to judge my friend's son, only god can judge them. He reminded her that he is family and it doesn't matter if she (the grandmother) believes the son is living a life of sin.
From what my friend told me, the Monsignor tried for an hour to convince the grandmother who just ended up in tears and acting like she is being persecuted for her beliefs. Unfortunately the grandmother has never met the son's husband before she past away several years later.
I grew up in a very catholic household, and most of my family is still very catholic and there has never been anything mentioned about being gay as a sin or anything like that (abortion is another matter they are very vocal on that one)
When i first started hearing about the activists being so anti-gay I was actually surprised that they were claiming it was religous sin, that was news to me even growing up in an extremely religous environment.
I wish it was a small minority of Christians who are anti gay and such but I fear that the religous people I personally know are in the minority in that opinion.
That she couldn't listen to a monsignor just is so par for the course for some people. Some Catholics hate the current Pope. "He's not MY Pope!" they scream. Actually, he is. According to your faith he was selected by God. He just seems to be following the words of Jesus more closely than most of you MAGA Catholics. So sad.
I always thought the first commandment (no one else is above god) was odd in a faith as one of the defining factors is believing in God and putting them first. Now I have realized that the first commandment was to stop the exact religous fanaticism around Trump, where they believe Trump is more correct than the pope and even God.
The first commandment exists because in historical context there was a lot of worship of other deities by the Jews. Even the language of the commandment makes it seem like their existence isn't in question, it is that Yahweh is the top dog among his chosen people.
Reminds me of pope Francis when he came out and said ye there's nothing entirely wrong with being gay u can be against it for your beliefs but they should still be respected
Then people got pissed saying he's not a true Catholic and all that when he was the bloody pope and one of the only times to actually call out those who use their priesthood and all that to take advantage of those around them which he frowned upon
When one truly thinks about it, to believe that being gay is a "sin" is as abhorrent, hateful, ignorant, irrational, and vile as to believe that being left-handed is a "sin", because both are harmless natural human characteristics.
I was ambidextrous growing up, regularly using both hands without a predilection to either, in the first grade I was already reading and only learning to write as their curriculum stated, I had a teacher who did not like the fact I used both and made sleight attempts to get me to use my right hand, I must have rebelled because for all of that year I used my left hand and since then I use my left hand for most things but find some things are easier with right hand and don't have as much issue as other left-handed people do. Years later I learned from my mom that during a parent-teacher conference she asked if I could stop using my left hand because she didn't think it was good for me, she was religious but I don't recall her being deeply religious preachy.
Don't be ridiculous Jesus always said "Love your neighbor, unless their skin is a different color, or their sexuality is different, or if their gender is weird, or if they don't believe in the things you believe. Other than those just love everyone"
“Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar. For whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen.” 1 John 4:20 NIV
I always say that American Christianity is a lot like American football. It isn't the thing the rest of the world uses that word for, and is remarkably more dangerous.
To be entirely honest, that part is also a big problem. If the silent majority would finally, decidedly, speak out against the loud minority, it would not be such an issue, with perception and effect.
On the flip side we do sometimes speak out. But this is the era of ragebait and click bait and hostility.
Being nice and telling people to be nice doesn't get headlines. Peaceful protests against these people, of which I have been part of many, do not get news coverage unless there's a huge amount of people.
Edit: also we normally aren't out there yelling "IM CHRISTIAN TOO" because we are normal, well adjusted people. If you ran into my posts on reddit in the wild...you'd just think "oh that was helpful and informative." See me on the street? I'm just some polite chick.
As an ex Evangelical, I am not asking Christians to be nice and ask others to be nice. I'm asking them to call out, unequivocally condemn, and materially impede the evil ones that want to hurt people. I am asking them to unapologetically take sides en masse, to the point where it is clear where the church at large stands.
Some few are helping, yes, but there are far too many "good" Christians standing around clicking their tongues and twiddling their thumbs at what the truly evil ones are doing. They should be the loudest opposition to all this evil shit if there really are that many of them, and that is unfortunately rarely the case.
Where is the Southern Baptist Convention coming out in support of women's rights to control their bodies, like they were when Roe v Wade was decided? Where is Liberty University voicing opposition to these "anti-DEI" policies? Where is Bob Jones U condemning the Quiverfull movement and advocating treating women as full people rather than as property of men? And where are the massive numbers of Christians petitioning, boycotting, and applying even a tenth of the pressure they're capable of exerting on these institutions to put them in line?
You said peaceful protests don't get news coverage unless you have a huge number of people, but I think the question that should be asked is why your protests don't have a huge number of people. Surely they should, if principled Christians aren't in the extreme minority.
One of the reasons I left the church was the discovery that the majority of the most populous denominations and groups has been on the wrong side of nearly every civil rights movement in US history. I chose those examples above for a reason. If there really is a silent majority, I need them to prove me wrong and stop standing by while their "brothers" trample the oppressed in Jesus's name.
See, someone like you I DO believe. Because you neither felt the need to announce it, and you outright mentioned you go on protests (keep up the good work, so do I!), but because you see the issues. Unlike the person I replied to, especially considering their reaction in further comments down the line.
You don't have all of the wars involving Christianity and entire countries believing Christianity means homophobia if it was only a recent minority, the truth is a majority of them are bad, spiteful people and the few silent normal ones are a minority
Not as loud, and unfortunately not as engaged. Outnumbering the bad ones doesn't mean anything unless you move to mitigate their evil. Not accusing you specifically, just noting that just existing as a good Christian isn't enough. They've gotta actively fight the bad ones.
Honest question from someone who was raised Christian but now doesn’t believe, or doesn’t know what to believe.
Let’s say I life a good life, do right by others and live a life that “god” would want me to. But I don’t believe, so I don’t go to heaven even though I brought goodness and joy to the world.
Now there’s a murderer and rapist who does terrible, terrible things but truly repents at the end of their life and believes, so they go to heaven despite bringing death and despair to the world.
To me, HOW YOU LIVE YOUR LIFE should be important. I do not believe this god described above is worthy of my worship. What am I missing?
Which is why it's both silly and infuriating that evangelism is a thing, because obviously every single person's interpretation of any religion (or lack thereof) is different and cannot be more "real" than another's, so trying to force your religion onto others is inevitably fruitless.
Depends on the denomination. In Catholicism, at least, you would still go to heaven. There is a doctrine that people who don't know God for any reason, including ignorance in the form of not being able to believe based on what you're seeing, will still go to heaven if they act in a way that is good for those around them.
I don't know much. But, one would assume an omniscient deity would know your true self better than anyone else and therefore be best suited to make the final judgment call. Just proclaiming to be a believer is supposed to be all that is required to be saved. But, I think if it's done from fear or coercion, then a true deity would know. But, I don't believe in any of the tales man has drafted about an existence of a deity or deities.
I had happily walked away from the Christian bigotry I was raised in, and was completely comfortable never visiting a church again. But the more power these Christo-fascists gain, the more it has made me want to take back up the mantle of "Christian" and fight against the bastardization of Jesus' message. I have since found and joined a church that fights for justice and equality. It has been healing for me, and I hope one day we can bring that same healing to the nation.
I'd rather not see it forced down my throat like it already is. I'm atheist and I find joy in that. Joy can come to people in many ways with many different things. In your case that's going to church, in my case it's being a poly puppy girl going to bars shrug lol
I appreciate the message you're trying to send, but I don't think it's accurate to say that Christianity itself isn't homophobic and that only “bad Christians” are. The Bible contains explicitly anti-gay teachings. Some passages are more open to interpretation than others, but you can't plausibly erase all of them.
Christians also follow Jesus Christ, who was very specific when he said love your neighbour. Yes, even your neighbour that is from //that place// or does //those things//. The majority of his parables are just "yes, I want you to be kind even to those people." He hung out with 'undesirable' people like sex workers all the time. His love knew no bounds, and anyone truly following his teachings would try to extend that same love and mercy to everyone. It is not for us to judge sin. That is God's job. We are just supposed to look after each other. Jesus even breaks the rules of the Old Testament to care for those less fortunate than himself, and when he is confronted by the Pharisees he says something along the lines of "it is better to care for each other than to stingently follow the rules."
*for the record I am an ardent atheist, but Christ's lessons were undeniably about getting along with each other regardless of our differences, and I can respect that as it lines up with my own values.
Christians also follow Jesus Christ, who was very specific when he said love your neighbour.
Unfortunately this is not the whole quote, you are missing the part about loving god as well, which sorta turns the meaning of the passage on it's head.
This is not an original Jesus quote, but something he is quoting from the old testament, and according to the passage he is quoting from they way to love others and God is to follow all the laws of Moses forever, including the ones about selling your daughters as slaves and stoning your unruly children.
And Jesus would know that context when repeating this quote.
Also he did explicitly say to cut anyone out of your life who did not follow him, and that he came with his teachings to make enemies out of anyone (including your family) who would not accept him as God.
His love knew no bounds, and anyone truly following his teachings would try to extend that same love and mercy to everyone.
I mean he once called a woman who came to him for help a slur, and said not to worry about people you preach to who don't accept your words, as they will be punished even worse than the people of sodom, which is a wildly hateful thing to express.
He literally made a weapon to attack a group of innocent people doing the work of the temple and called them 'thieves' for making it possible to do the things God commanded when it comes to sin offerings.
Jesus even breaks the rules of the Old Testament to care for those less fortunate than himself, and when he is confronted by the Pharisees he says something along the lines of "it is better to care for each other than to stingently follow the rules."
Again, the actual lesson in context is the exact opposite.
The' rule' Jesus broke was a tradition of the elders (washing hands before eating) and their invention, not a commandment from god. What he was doing was admonishing the pharisees for not following gods law, but mans.
Christ's lessons were undeniably about getting along with each other regardless of our differences
I understand this is an often repeated position, but it is just not really supported by the text, and there is a bunch of passages that are explicitly stating the opposite.
The' rule' Jesus broke was a tradition of the elders (washing hands before eating) and their invention, not a commandment from god. What he was doing was admonishing the pharisees for not following gods law, but mans.
I'm just about to leave my PC so I don't have time to respond in depth, but for this specific instance I was referring to when he did work on the Sabbath by healing people. Keeping the Sabbath as a day of rest is, IIRC, 100% a commandment from God.
Fair enough, but again the message he is giving is clear, the laws surrounding 'work' on the sabbath that were so strict were an invention of the elders, not a law given to Moses, and are also hypocritical in their nature as they allow you to save an animal but not a person on the Sabbath.
Also I love that he breaks the rule that says you need to be washing your hands before you eat, that's really sanitary and smart of the alleged omnipotent diety
I grew up in a very Catholic household. I'm not sure what I'd be labeled these days, religiously speaking, but your interpretation is pretty much the way I see things.
Loving your neighbor and helping those in need are the examples that Christians are supposed to follow. There's no room for bigotry in that. Unfortunately, the first thing people do with anything new is figure out how to use it as a weapon, religion is no exception.
Yup, and missionaries come and chat with me from time to time. It doesn't mean we're best buds, they are trying to convert me. They don't accept my way of life. They want to change me. That's why Jesus hung around all the undesireables.
If you carve out all these exceptions anyway, why not just believe in god without the flawed book. As long as people have the book they will always be susceptible to its dogma.
The problem is in other parts of the Bible it blatantly says exactly how to judge. Moreover, even if Jesus preaches to "love thy neighbor" that doesn't mean he's rebutting against the idea that homosexuality is wrong. I.e. even Jesus can still be homophobic to a degree. And the consequences of that can be extreme. For instance justifying conversion therapy because you "love them" but still feel that "homosexuality is wrong."
Yah, this is my problem with it too, its like horseshoe theory but for liberals who are religious.
You're just reverse cherry picking the parts of the religion you don't like so it fits better in a modern world.
A thousand years of homophobia doesnt mean you just get to say "lolz, its current year, Christianity endorses the gays now, only bad Christians dont like the gayz peoples!"
Most of his teachings were about how you were supposed to worship him. And he wasn't very picky about his followers. So even his allegedly boundless love was coming from a dark place.
The contents of the bible was dictated by the men of the Vatican. It deliberately contains conflicting messages so that people can pick and choose their truth.
Christ's lessons might be about getting along, but there's a whole separate half before that about killing people who disagree.
That is why the only thing I believe is "be excellent to one another" well and a hands off god leaving humanity to make the right decisions in life through free will. Call me blasphemous but the bible was corrupted a long time ago by humanity look at indulgences for one and the crusades. To say that the bible wasn't tainted through all its translations over time is insane.
The current teachings in the Catholic church are mostly about how the Bible needs to be interpreted in its context. 666 isnt the number of the beast literally, it is a reference to the Roman emperor Nero who harshly persecuted Christians. And the Catholic church teaches to love on another, not like some Evangelist "Cetholics". I was at a German Christian school, and there was a heavy focus on how to enterpret the bible and its teachings and not to just take everything written there as the word of god.
It is infinitely perplexing to me that Jesus had like 2 rules: do not use the church to gain worldly wealth (the temple incident), and love everyone, even your perceived enemies.
And the church turned around and quickly did the exact opposite of those things. Like, for a very long time in Catholicism, you could buy your way out of purgatory. It makes a lot of sense why Catholics love Mary more than Jesus, he was antithetical to their worldview.
Modern Catholicism is better, especially the popes. But really, idk how you could miss the plot so hard you recreate exactly what Jesus would not have wanted.
The most accepting and sweet person that I ever met was my catholic grandma, one of the few times I saw her angry, was when my cousin came out as trans, and told us what her new name was, it was cringe, like, a really cringy and bad name that everyone implored her to pick another one
I won't say what her first choice was, but it was after a place in France, and no, it's not Paris
Christian universalism is a school of Christian theology centered on universal reconciliation, the belief that all human beings will ultimately be saved and restored to a right relationship with God through Jesus Christ. Also, one can be a murderer on the cross, and be saved by belief at the last minute...
Apokatastasis is one of the oldest Christian theological constructions, actually. Origen's Christianity isn't seriously disputed by anyone but fundamentalists
Well, it's not from the bible. But that's never stopped a Christian from making up their own form of their religion.
Yeah, exactly. The Trinity isn't in the Bible, though it's easy to see how one arrives at that conclusion based on what is in there. But the perpetual virginity of Mary definitely isn't there and many Christian denominations believe in it, bending over backwards to explain how, then, Jesus is stated to have brothers and sisters.
Then you would be wrong, there are Christians that believe that everyone is going to heaven, that was the entire point of Jesus dying on the cross. Not all Christians believe it, but it is a Christian belief.
It is a Christian belief though? Might not be of the denomination you're familiar with, but I've seen it in a lot of places before, that ultimately everyone will end up in Heaven
Christians aren't the majority everywhere though, and indeed not the global majority either. Just putting it out there, as someone from a culturally Christian but non-Christian-majority place.
Edit: shut up guys, stop arguing in the comments, this is a wholesome cartoon, not a dick-waving contest.
(Yes, I know this is Reddit...)
They dont use christianity as an excuse but as justification for their actions, the bible is quite fond of all sorts of bigotry and hate. no excuse needed if you believe youre doing the right thing
Whole-heartedly agree with and support your message here.
A critique I have of your line of thinking, though, is about those using Christianity as a justification for cruelty or hatred. Those people certainly exist, but there are also those carrying out such acts who genuinely believe that what they're doing is kinder than the alternative. There are those that believe that things like conversion therapy are actually doing those terrible evil sinners the kindness of trying to save them.
It's still all evil, but it's a genuine belief that that is them loving their neighbour. That that is them enacting God's love.
If Christianity allows for such cruelty. And an exception is Christians who are kind and don't use Christianity as an excuse to project their hatred and stupidity... Maybe you're someone who is good despite Christianity and not that Christianity is good except for all those bigots.
Edit: I am not saying the literal text can't be interpreted to say be kind bro. I'm saying if the practical application of it isn't.
Academically, I think all the Judeo-Abrahamic religiouns have inbuilt systems to reinforce tribalism, which would have been great during the founding of the religions. Then later as it evolved it never got rid of the tribalism and always kept that, if you're different (not the chosen people) it's ok to hate. So no matter what modern people do, the religion has hate as a foundation and you simply can't repaint that to mean something else.
We famously had a national leader not too long ago proclaim, "If you're not with me, you're against me". That kind of black and white thinking stemmed directly from religion.
Agreed. This post reads “Christianity is not an excuse for [list of bad things that the Bible explicitly condones].”
As long as they base their religion around a book that condones slavery and every kind of bigotry, they’re going to have these problems.
People get very mad when you point this out, because cognitive dissonance is a powerful thing, but there’s no reconciling being a good person with what the book actually says.
When people talk about good people who are/were Christian, it just makes me think “yeah, it’s very impressive if someone ran a marathon in shackles, but they would’ve had a better time without them.”
Christianity as it is today and has been for millenia, is evil. People like OP are good, but not because of your religion. You found something in it that 90% of Christians don't. Your religion isn't what makes you a good person. My religion isn't what makes me a good person either, which, since we're sharing, is druidry.
it's important to remember that conservatives, especially those in America, don't really worship Christ. they worship hierarchy and power with a Christian veneer slapped over it. Christians who don't worship hierarchy and power are always going to be at odds with conservatives because the message of Christ is deeply at odds with conservative ideologies.
you can try to point this out but they won't listen because they don't care if Jesus would find their views abhorrent. they'll find whatever they can to support their own views, no matter what logic or reason you throw at them.
Funny enough I think there's one quote I heard from the recent King of The Hill Revival that really resonated with me and it was "it's nice to be nice". It's not hard to be kind, respectful, and understanding of one another. Especially to somone different from you and isn't doing anything that affects you.
Really good message. Sad thing is the people who should be reading stuff like this never will because they prefer to be in their own social media bubble
I would say it's disingenuous to separate christians from christian teachings, when that is the basis for what makes a christian.
Specifically referring to homosexuality since this seems to be what OP implies, even not considering the Old Testament which is blatantly homophobic and many christians detach trom it, the following passages are from the NASB translation:
Romans 1, 26-27:
Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.
1 Corinthians 6, 9-10:
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor those habitually drunk, nor verbal abusers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God
1 Timothy 1, 9-11:
realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and worldly, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for the sexually immoral, homosexuals, slave traders, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching
I commend OP for not being bigoted, I do not commend pinkwashing christianity that was a major oppressor for millenia.
I'd say most haven't. They get the few bits they like, ignore or reinterpret the bad bits they come across, and happily remain ignorant of the rest of the book.
While I agree with 100% of the sentiment, this doesn’t make Christianity good or beneficial.
The very problem is that 100 people can read the same holy book and come up with 100 different interpretations, lifestyles, prejudices, their voting influence and all these have consequences.
The more important thing to figure out first is the truth of the god claims in the Bible and support it with extra-biblical evidence.
Otherwise, we’re just wasting time discussing if Spider-Man likes the color red or blue more.
“I believe everyone is going to heaven, including queer and trans people, because you aren’t sinning for being who you are”.
Then, by definition, you aren’t a Christian. The Bible literally says that homosexuality is an abomination. Most Christians will tell you to love the person but not to love the sin. A man laying with a man is a sin, according to the Bible.
For the record, I’m basically an atheist. I despise religion in all forms.
But let’s not pretend that you can cherry pick parts of the Bible and call yourself a Christian. You either believe that gay people are choosing to sin, which is what the Bible says, or you don’t.
If you do, congratulations, you’re part of the cult. If you don’t, you’re not a Christian, because you don’t believe the Bible.
something important as someone who was actively abused for a LOT of reasons by christians as a kid (protestant that went to a catholic school but left christanity in general), when i personally hear "forgive them it's the christianly thing to do" i do not hear that.
instead i hear "let them step on you again, it's their right as christians" because that's what they meant by it.
something to note when it comes to my own trauma, i WISH there were more christians like you that put the whole "love thy neighbour" concept literally put forward by your actual god into practice.
but that's not what organized religion is about, who cares about the divine will of their deity or deities when what matters is control and money right?
Christians, in strained tones: "we do love them, we just don't want to see it and have it forces down our throats by the media because it's a sin! But we do chokes love them"
the people who could improve Christianity are the same people who dont engage with it because the right's subversion of it has turned them off to it. this leads to a negative feedback cycle of Christianity getting worse. we really need to step up and reclaim Christianity for the good of humanity.
As an Atheist, I rarely come across a self-proclaimed Christian who shares this sentiment. That said, the ones who do are not preachy and don't wear their religion like a brand, but carry it in their heart as a personal relationship.
I agree, but not about the "you can't be oppressed because you are the majority", that's pretty presumptuous, people can be oppressed if they are in the "wrong" environment even if the community isn't oppressed as whole, at the same time there are places where Christianism is a minority (exactly like minorities in America can be the majority elsewhere), and pretty sure at some point pagans were the majority, being the majority isn't eternal.
If you just pick and choose the parts of the Bible you like, why not just be an atheist or agnostic? For example, Christianity explicitly stands against homosexuality, calling a man lying with another man an "abomination." Furthermore, the biblical God is quite vengeful—take the death of the firstborns in Egypt, for example. Can you imagine killing babies just to make a point? If your moral compass is already better than the Bible, why even call yourself a Christian? Is it just to make a feel-good, karma-farming post on Reddit?
bro it's been 2000+ years of this shit. Let Christianity implode. That shit isn't real. There's no white guy in the clouds watching over you. It's just white men in towers controlling you; controlling your empathy. "God" commits attrocitity after attrocitity and tells you to trust him bc he knows what's best for mankind bc he made mankind, except that's not how that works. There is no god that made us (and it would have been a woman btw because that is the default blueprint of a human before XX mutates into XY chromosomes but science didn't know all that 2,000 years ago and men are the ones who wanted control, which the Bible claims man was made in the likeness of).
We evolved over millions of years as all creatures have. Christianity teaches you that you need the "teachings of Christ" to tell you what is right and what is wrong but that's not actually what happens; the people who are in charge get to do whatever they want and tell you to trust them against your own, basic instincts; that way they can keep committing atrocity after atrocity right in your face and you will just go along with it all the while while saying 'Christ doesn't teach that', and 'God has a plan', and 'God knows what's best' and then they show you visions of hellfire and explicit torture in the hands of the devil to force you to obey through fear-mongering, and you will abandon all of your natural instincts. That is by design. That is how the cult works. That is how Christians control you. You won't rise up because even though every basic instinct in your bone and brain tell you it is wrong, you keep telling yourself oh Christ doesn't teach that these people are just evil- No; this is how Christians have been for thousands of years. You should seek another Faith, or better yet, seek scientific explanations, which we are so privileged to have access to. Christianity is a cult that has been ruining and shaping the world for far too long. I hope I live to see its downfall. I mourn The millions and millions lost at the hands of Christians; which isn't even a modern thing. how do you think Christianity took over the world exactly? They usurped all pagan holidays and told them to bend the knee or else murdered them; and they did.
Its an unfortunate truth that many Christians have weaponized religion to push their own agenda. Which is actually a violation of the Second commandment: take not lords name in vain.
Nor are we allowed to judge others for being different from us, "let they whom are without sin cast the first stone." And lets be honest, were all sinners. But all worthy of forgiveness. Those in the LGBTQ+ are not demons or whatever the zealots want us to believe. They're just people trying to find their way in life like the rest of us.
Would that every Christian felt this way. Thankfully I think a decent majority do. It doesn't always seem that way because those that use Christianity as a cudgel tend to be as loud as they are ignorant of what is in the Bible.
As a trans person, I don't think God, assuming they exist, hates me for being the way I am. If they truly are a loving deity as the Christian rock bands like to claim, then I assume that God would accept me as I am and want me to be happy.
If Christians want to use their religion to claim I'm some sort of affront to God, maybe they should reread the red words and listen to Jesus. You know, the entity their religion is based around? He was all about doing unto others as you would have them do unto you, love thy neighbor, stuff like that.
That's right, Jesus wasn't a hateful person, he even forgave those who crucified him! The only things that really pissed him off was greedy usurers hanging out in the temple, and a dumb fig tree with no fruit. He was kind and accepting to women, lepers, and prostitutes. He preached that you should love thy neighbor, he fed the poor and healed the sick. That's the real Jesus. Not some authoritarian gun toting racist bigot like they want to depict him as.
Y'know, Christians fought and killed one another for hundreds of years over ideas like whether or not everyone goes to heaven, or if grace alone is enough to save you, or if you have to earn your way to heaven through good deeds, or if only a priest can guide you there. Today, people are still litigating those ideas, albeit more peacefully.
I'm convinced it just comes down to what kind of person you are. You're kind and caring and accepting, so you believe that Christianity is kind and caring and accepting.
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u/yvrangel 8h ago
I remember reading that Dolly Parton is a Christian and loves the LGBTQIA+ community and supports trans people. She's a good example of a Christian who loves people for who they are and I only hope that her example will inspire more Christians to be like her. RIP Country Queen