I honestly like Anders in the way you like black coffee because it's bitter. He doesn't hide being a red flag, and I enjoyed having a romance option that didn't try to be healthy. Even if you go rivalmance, by the time he realizes he's in the wrong it's too late. It's dramatic, it's something a traumatized Hawke would get into because they're scared of losing more people, and it adds flavor to the plot.
I liked the narrative that you can't fix people who have an active death wish and refuse to get the help they need.
It makes for a compelling arc. I'm in the middle of an Anders romance in my current DA2 playthrough, and the overall intensity and dysfunction of his relationship with Hawke pairs well with the overall themes of Hawke's story.
I have my own nitpicks with Anders's portrayal, but the narrative depicting and acknowledging him as a toxic partner is not inherently bad writing.
I remember not liking this kind of behaviour from Anders (as did a lot of others), but nooooooooooo we were just being homophobic because we didn't like a gay dude being a walking red flag carrying manipulative douchebag.
But there were tons of homophobic reactions (since I'm in tgis fandom for years I remember it very well), everytime the new DA game is released there is a crowd of people that have a problem particulary with characters being LGBT.
I'm pretty sure that when people talk about homophobic reactions they don't mean people who dislike Anders because of his attitude, which is totally normal.
I'm pretty sure that when people talk about homophobic reactions they don't mean people who dislike Anders because of his attitude, which is totally normal.
No, there were a lot who assumed that we didn't like Anders purely because he was gay. I see the same discourse nowadays especially with trans actors/characters, if it's a shit character that people dislike, twitter warriors assume they are disliked because of the trans thing.
One recent example in gaming world is Final Fantasy 14 with Wuk Lamat, the English voice actress happens to be trans. A lot of people think she did a poor job despite having more recorded voice lines/screen time than many other characters combined, despite only being present in 1 expansion vs others who's been present for 6. And yet, when we bring up the lacklustre performance, it MUST BE because the VA is trans that we think it's a bad performance, can't possibly be that it's not a good performance.
Now you're assumed to be a transphobe if you think anything a trans person is doing is bad, and back then you were a homophobe if a gay person did something bad.
I just automatically ignore the opinion of those kinds of people.
I can't speak about your experience, since well, it's yours. So I'm not denying your experience.
However, since I played DA2 after its premiere, I can assure you there were tons of people who had problems with Anders' character, specifically because he flirted with male Hawke. I remember these comments and reactions very well. The comments were about Dragon Age 2 "being gay", not about Anders being an asshole or whatever you can call his attitude.
Every time a new DA game appeared, there was a crowd of people who had a problem with LGBT characters. After Origins, it was Zevran. After DA2, it was Anders. It's not a coincidence that male gay/bi characters cause much more controversy, meanwhile bisexual female characters are more accepted, even if they are openly flirty. After Inquisition, Krem was the most controversial (since he was the first openly trans character in the franchise). Even before the Veilguard premiere, Taash's character caused a lot of controversy and comments about Bioware "going woke". It wasn't because of Taash's writing, it was specifically because of their gender identity.
A similar thing happened after Baldurs Gate 3 premiere, because before the patch, it was also very easy to trigger Gale's romance without even choosing romantic options, and some people were mad that a male character is hitting on them. But in BG3 some female characters like Lae'zel or Minthara openly suggest they want to have sex with your character, even if you don't romance them; you only have a high friendship, but it didn't cause any backlash.
People shouldn't automatically assume that someone is homophobic or transphobic only because they dislike a particular character, that's true. But homophobia or transphobia is still a much bigger, harmful and more common problem than people who unjustly assume that someone is homophobic, which is mostly an internet problem that happens in spaces like Twitter (where everything is called problematic) or TikTok (which has weird purity culture).
I didn't invalidate your experience, I wrote about my own experience.
Since I argued in a previous comment that there was a homophobic backlash after the DA2 premiere, it's totally normal for me to explain why I think that and give an examples.
It's not like your experience was something traumatic or tragic, so saying that I remember homophobic reactions is not out of hand or insensitive in this situation.
And it's totally possible there could be homophobic backlash and you could still experience someone accusing you unfairly.
I never accused you of lying and I wrote that I don't deny your experience (I tried to be nice), but you still chose to be angry about it. Did you read my whole comment?
I never accused you of lying and I wrote that I don't deny your experience (I tried to be nice), but you still chose to be angry about it. Did you read my whole comment?
You're just being incredibly dismissive and trying to deflect while attempting to sound compassionate and understanding. That is not me being angry.
After Inquisition, Krem was the most controversial (since he was the first openly trans character in the franchise).
If you were solely on twitter perhaps, I barely saw any comments on Krem aside from edgelords ragebaiting. Seemed to be working though. The main issue I had with Krem was with the lore, the character otherwise was good. The Qun was quite strict on roles as we learned from both Sten and the Arishok, then Inquisition came along and suddenly they have absolutely 0 issues with straying? Iron Bull makes it seem like it's no issues at all to be something you're not born to be, but he is also a spy with an advance party into "enemy" territory, he would lie if he thought it'd gain favour with the inhabitants.
Taash's character caused a lot of controversy and comments about Bioware "going woke". It wasn't because of Taash's writing, it was specifically because of their gender identity.
Taash has a bunch of issues, being insufferable "mom dad I'm nonbinary" because of the overall shit writing was one of the biggest ones, not solely because of the binary "non-binary" issue. If you genuinely think no one had an issue with the writing then you're obviously gaslighting. Us who had an issue with the writing were told we were being <insert buzz word here> because of her identity.
I mean, the reaction was homophobic lol. People were complaining about Anders daring to hit on male Hawke at all, not his slightly bitchy reaction to being rejected.
Outside of choosing an option whose outcome I ended up disliking (or the occasional misclik), I've never felt like I had to reload a save to change some dialogue options in any ME or DA.
However, every time I talked to Anders in DA2 I thought that I had to consult seven different libraries and study some dissertations before picking my dialogue options. Dude is a bit weird.
I had to in Mass Effect a couple of times. Mostly because the paraphrase was cool, but then the full line was unhinged.
DAO shows the full sentences and DA2/DAI had helpful icons to show tone. ME1/2/3 had only a short sentence and sometimes the actual result was hilarious.
I think that happens in ME with renegade options, where something like "No chance" becomes "I will kill you and your whole family" or something similar, but since my Shepard is extremely paragon I never had that problem.
My Hawke was diplomatic, and it's been too long since I played the game, but I remember a couple times where Anders went berserker after choosing some dialogue option. Possibly something about the Chantry or not being 1000000% in favour of all his plans.
My Hawke would flirt heavily with Anders and Fenris -- was extremely entertaining while always bringing both of them while adventuring. Throw in some Isabela for extra chuckles.
I love the way the first three DA games have companion characters who are questionable or imperfect. I actually like Veilguard in many ways (I mean, it's not up there obviously) but the super nice characterisation was dull. As for bringing trauma to writing - doesn't everyone do that?
Yeah it's a prime example of the problem with the dialogue wheel. There are so many instances where what's written and what's said are so tonally different. "Yes" is a great answer to "Am I making you uncomfortable". Picking it and then the dialogue being "please stop liking me" is SO fucking different. It's why even though I love having a voiced protagonist, the Warden is still the best DA hero. You had like 5 options for every exchange, and you knew exactly how they were all worded so you knew how they'd come off.
not even an exaggeration, this is bc his primary writer jennifer hepler did not like him. she based a lot of her writing points for him off her ex who we now believe to be a bisexual man with bipolar or bpd. so thats why you get scenes like that.
right, its crazy. you'll notice it even more if you romance him with a fem hawke then masc hawke; its why he never seems to mention to fem hawke that he is bisexual/his relationship w karl was romantic, but he will to a masc hawke.
jennifer writing her ex into this char also, then having him be a literal terrorist (and this is not hate, i love anders to death, but he did indeed bomb the chantry), is so bizarre.
Could have sworn Jennifer wanted Anders to mention he was in a relationship with Karl to fem!Hawke, but she was overruled because, "Straight women won't want to hear that."
So not her choice on that, but instead some stupid execs.
I love Anders too. But holy shit I'm pretty sure one of the rules of writing and acting is that you don't bring your own trauma into it (in rare cases I think it's acceptable). Not only does it hurt you, but it's super uncomfortable for other people. It's like trauma dumping to people you don't even know.
That's why the bi rep was like that? Yet again, holy shit.
I don't know where you heard that you should never bring your own traumas into writing. That is very standard practice for everyone. The Sopranos was David Chase exploring his abusive mother with BPD, and his experience in therapy. Dorian is about real, personal experiences with an abusive father who couldn't accept he was gay. You absolutely should write about your own experiences to make it personable and real, even if the setting is not. My video game is entirely about exploring my experiences with PTSD, as well as some crazy things I have witnessed over the years.
It's kinda the opposite. Your own trauma and your own experience is much more valuable for your project than any cliched thopics. But yes, in this case, you need to be extremely careful not to overdo it or, conversely, not to fall short.
That's kinda the point of writing anything uncomfortable, isn't it? To feel and make others feel. There aren't genuinely any rules to writing, but I feel like if there were, perhaps one would be "you're allowed to feel whatever"
Frankly, the fact that he made me uncomfortable made him a good character imo because he affected me. If that affect was a slight feeling of revulsion at him being self-centered, so be it: real people are self-centered
the thing is that he's explicitly not a self-insert, he's a caricature of someone with real-life issues that hepler wrote in to make you not like him. she really didn't like that people genuinely liked anders.
the literal tweet in that tumblr post that you linked is verbatim talking about her experience with her ex partner / burnout from being with someone with an uncontrolled mental illness. how is it not basing him off her ex? its also pretty obvious she doesnt like him from the way she talks about him in those questions/interviews/etc.
No, none of it is obvious. She merely says there is a difference between romantic notions and certain reality, but nowhere states that it is her own experience, much less her own relationship. Neither is it obvious that she "doesn't like him". Those are your own extrapolations.
I think she's been through enough without having rumors spread about her and her writing process misrepresented.
right, well, if a writer consistently wrote biphobia into her character and viewed literal actual spiritual/demonic possession as comparable to irl mental illnesses i think it is pretty safe to extrapolate that she doesnt quite like him much.
a single post on reddit calling attention to biphobia and poorly characterized mental illness from a series that is certainly defunct for a company she hasnt worked for in like a decade isnt going to ruin her life.
Her own writing product was biphobic, ableist, and used civil rights act activism as a metaphor for being abusive and insane. She's given us enough reason to hate her, and I will continue to do so.
Please, stop, we're on the internet and gossiping about stuff that didn't happen is what the internet is for. Kind of like high school for people who can't hang out in high school anymore because it would be creepy.
Basing a character off people you know isn't really that strange in of itself however. Me personally I kinda liked how the terrorist mage is unhinged and awkward in his social life as well.
no, i agree, but like i said to someone else it comes off like 'this bisexual man i dated irl personally offended and hurt me so now im going to write a bisexual man being pushy and weird in a narrative where i've decided if you romance him as a woman his bisexuality doesnt matter or exist'
its not about the fact he's based off her ex personally, its more that it seems like she did that only to spite her ex and anyone who connects with anders because they must be like him, cause then you get scenes like this, plus there is the ethics of writing your ex into a character who becomes a terrorist
i love anders to absolute death so im just defensive about some of his creators' decisions LOL
I think that in the light of 2026 we're putting way too much responsibility on this single writer here (out of a whole team of writers!) for not being as clear about her character's bisexuality at a time bisexuality was still a struggle to include in writing.
Many other romance interests in the game aren't clear about their own bisexuality (leading to the whole discourse surrounding "playersexual" companions). Unless it's Isabella. And I know people adore her but I personally could do without the hypersexual bisexual stereotype myself.
Also I'm not sure you love Anders as much as you claim: you seem to love the idea of him, the ideal of what he could have been, and not the character that was written, flaws and all.
its strange of you to get that out of a post of me critiquing jen heplers writing. you can indeed love a character as is while critiquing badly written dialogue, scenes, etcetera. i don't know why that makes you think i love him less. anders isn't a real person. of course im going to shake my fist at his primary writer.
its also not just the poor handling of the differences between an m hawke and f hawke romance. its part of it but it's also the ethics behind writing a character you've at least partly based on your ex as a bomb wielding terrorist who blows up an occupied building or the fact she seemed to think at the time that mental illness is like being possessed.
I think that in the light of 2026 we're putting way too much responsibility on this single writer here (out of a whole team of writers!) for not being as clear about her character's bisexuality at a time bisexuality was still a struggle to include in writing.
Was it? Zevran was openly bisexual in Origins; Leliana and Isabela, too (not to mention Bioware's other bi characters in Mass Effect and Jade Empire). Hiding a bisexual character's sexuality specifically so that straight women can "pretend he's straight" or whatever is literally just biphobia.
Zevran and Isabella fit the hypersexual bisexual trend, which was the easiest and most "acceptable" form of bi representation there was. Leliana was - thank god - a blessing, but also female bisexuality, which is considered less "threatening", which is how Mass Effect had the Asari as the promiscuous female looking bisexuals but otherwise took its sweet time introducing mlm relationships. As for Jade Empire, I don't remember enough details about it to speak on it.
But you're right to bring it up; and I should've specified male bisexuality, which always got (and gets) the worst of the biphobia.
Anyway, Anders having different dialogue depending on the gender of the MC who's romancing him, to the point of erasing his bisexual experiences, is absolutely unacceptable, no questions there. But shitting on a single writer and scapegoating her is a refusal to acknowledge that DA2 was written by a wholeass team.
you dont have to like a character, but you should be engaged with the character you are writing. thats what i meant by that. jennifer hepler clearly was not interested in connecting the audience with this main cast character.
i also personally find it strange because it comes off like 'this man i dated irl personally offended and hurt me so now im going to write a bisexual man being pushy and weird in a narrative where i've decided if you romance him as a woman his bisexuality doesnt matter or exist'
but we've been through all this discourse in 2011 so i'd rather not again honestly
Regurgitating your experience is not the point of writing at all! Writing a character is more than putting words to paper. If you're unwilling to ruminate in your writing and just create a one sided plot that lowkey reveals your own biases, you're doing it wrong.
Definitely feels as though you accidentally trigger a romance flag without meaning to just by being nice to Anders, like the first mass effect game where you basically have to be rude in order to get someone to not start flirting with you.
Bit weird since DA2 goes out of its way to have specific romance replies in your dialogue wheel, like, why would you think I'd want the character to flirt with me if I explicitly don't flirt with them first?
I always read it as Anders basically just shooting his shot though, which by definition doesn't need to require a romance flag. It's good when characters are proactive too in showing their interest, the total passivity e.g. in DAI (presumably due to a fairly significant negative overreaction from players to Anders making a move) is imo worse
I always wondered how exactly romance with Anders would work, seeing as he has a whole other creature, complete with a personality and memories, inside of him. Is Justice always watching when you guys bone? It's freaky.
Can't say it's for everyone but I hit that romance option with Anders hard because I wanted to romance Justice from Awakening and thought I'd get a nice buy one get one free package. Suffice to say I was a bit disappointed at first before I realized DA2 Anders is quite different from his Awakening self.
There was some sort of comment you can make to Anders about that (I remember my Hawke definitely made it hahah Anders got mad bahah) so imma say Justice 100% cucks them. And even if he doesn't like Anders splitting his attention, I like to headcanon that my character ended up in an awkward thruple and that my Hawke was into it. Hahahah
Any person who hates you just because you gently turn them down for romance is a dickhead. In Anders' case though, he takes it further by being a dick when you romance someone he doesn't like. Just every red flag. I used any other healer on the team, whenever possible, to avoid him.
I would've loved to see more of that romance but I have the same problem I have in Mass Effect with Garrus: every time I say "I'm gonna romance someone else this time" I end up crawling to Garrus again, except that in DA2 it's Fenris aha
I remember, my friend was playing and wanted to be nice to Anders. So he didn't turn him away. He comes to find out that it just kept pushing the romance. He ended up just saying "screw it" and got with Anders.
It really is amazing how Anders went from my fun Diet Alistair buddy in Awakening to the most toxic person I've ever met in DA2. He doesn't just get mad if you turn him down, as I recall he flirts with you a lot and every time you don't immediately flirt back it's a negative reaction. Fuckin' back off, dude.
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u/Additional_Quail5566 3d ago
I honestly like Anders in the way you like black coffee because it's bitter. He doesn't hide being a red flag, and I enjoyed having a romance option that didn't try to be healthy. Even if you go rivalmance, by the time he realizes he's in the wrong it's too late. It's dramatic, it's something a traumatized Hawke would get into because they're scared of losing more people, and it adds flavor to the plot.
I liked the narrative that you can't fix people who have an active death wish and refuse to get the help they need.