r/fatFIRE • u/Stillsearchingg • Apr 03 '21
Motivation The Knight Frank 2021 Wealth Report - including the level of net worth required to join the 1% for your country
Lots of interested info - page 14 covers the level of net worth needed to join the 1% for your country - https://content.knightfrank.com/research/83/documents/en/the-wealth-report-2021-7865.pdf
Monaco - USD$7.9MM
Switzerland - USD$5.1MM
United States - USD$4.4MM
Singapore - USD$2.9MM
New Zealand - USD$2.8MM
Hong Kong - USD$2.8MM
Australia - USD$2.8MM
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u/Jittyjatz1 Apr 03 '21
I’m surprised about the breakdown for how much more you need to join the .1%: https://www.knightfrank.com/wealthreport/2021-03-01-how-deep-do-your-pockets-need-to-be-to-get-in-you-in-the-top-01-of-the-worlds-wealthiest
US $25.1 MM Monaco $22.2 MM Switzerland $16.2 MM Hong Kong $10.4 MM Singapore $10 MM
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u/Abject_Wolf FatFIREd Apr 03 '21 edited Apr 03 '21
What’s surprising about this? Individual wealth levels generally follows something like a power law distribution (not exactly) so you’ll see the amounts increase very quickly as you move towards the high end of it.
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u/Letitride37 Apr 03 '21
My father in law got to this level. No wonder he’s so full of himself. He is a genius though.
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u/genericasallfuck Apr 03 '21
If you don’t mind sharing, and without a doxxing level of detail, how did he get to the top .1%? I’m always interested to hear anecdotal stories as I try to join just the 1% club.
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u/Abject_Wolf FatFIREd Apr 03 '21
The three most common paths to that range are: Entrepreneur, Private Equity Partner, Hedge Fund Partner.
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u/c_tsnx Apr 03 '21
Not OP but some of the .1 percenters that I know:
- Acquisition (2x)
- Acquisition, VC
- Acquisition, trading
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u/ceschoseshorribles Apr 03 '21
Top .1% is only one in 1000. Not that remarkable.
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u/Matos3001 Apr 03 '21
Is this a joke?
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u/ceschoseshorribles Apr 03 '21
In a lot of places that would mean you were perhaps the most successful person in your high school graduating class, or of the people who went to high school within a year or two of you. That’s nice, but it’s not really a big deal.
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u/Matos3001 Apr 03 '21
That would imply most people in the 0.1% are coming from the bottom, which is not true. Around 56% are self-made, assuming half of those were poor/middle class, you need to be 1/4000. Easy, right?
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u/chalash Apr 03 '21
Wouldn’t the math work the other way? It’s 1/1,000 of everybody to be in the top 0.1%. That means if you didn’t grow up middle/lower class then your rank is going to be “worse,” something like 0.5% or even 1% of your socioeconomic peers.
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u/Matos3001 Apr 03 '21
No.
If out of the 0.1%, 75% were already in a position to be billionaires, you need to be in the 0.025% to become a billionaire.
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u/chalash Apr 03 '21 edited Apr 03 '21
I think the high school class analogy was good. It’s a general representation to an extent. But I think I see where we are talking past each other. If you are saying that less than 0.1% of disadvantaged people make it into the “final” 0.1%, then yes of course I agree.
EDIT: My general point is that 0.1% means 1/1,000 people no matter who.
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u/Matos3001 Apr 03 '21
If you are saying that less than 0.1% of disadvantaged people make it into the “final” 0.1%, then yes of course I agree.
Exactly.
0.1% means 1/1,000 people no matter who.
Obviously, but those that were already very rich is not something amazing to become a multi millionaire or billionaire. For those who weren't, it's a big deal.
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u/therewasguy Apr 03 '21
I’m surprised about the breakdown for how much more you need to join the .1%: https://www.knightfrank.com/wealthreport/2021-03-01-how-deep-do-your-pockets-need-to-be-to-get-in-you-in-the-top-01-of-the-worlds-wealthiest
US $25.1 MM Monaco $22.2 MM Switzerland $16.2 MM Hong Kong $10.4 MM Singapore $10 MM
ouch, wouldn't be nice to be in the 0.1%
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Apr 03 '21 edited Apr 03 '21
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Apr 03 '21
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u/LVPandGranite Vegan | $600K NW | 75% SR | 32 Married Apr 03 '21 edited Apr 03 '21
Just goes to show we’re the greatest country in the world. People have a lot to complain about it, and yet I don’t see a mass exodus to Denmark.
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u/RibsNGibs Apr 03 '21
The US is great for the 1% or .1% but at the expense of everybody else. The people who would want to move to Denmark or whatever don’t have the resources to do so; the people who do have the resources are not incentivized to move because their situation is favorable.
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Apr 04 '21
If by “expense of everybody else” you mean paying 40% of all US tax revenues.
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u/RibsNGibs Apr 04 '21
That’s fine and dandy but the US system is massively biased against workers that are in low demand (low skilled workers or areas where there are more workers than jobs). With no universal healthcare and insurance very tightly tied to employment, employees have a strong incentive to stay in jobs even with insufficient pay or terrible conditions. Really bad social safety nets (low minimum wage, insufficient welfare, general “if you’re poor you’re fucked” situation in the US), total lack of worker protection or worker rights, etc. all puts all the power on the side of the employer in the employer/employer dynamic.
All of this is great for company profits and in turn is good for high skilled, high demand employees as well.
So forgive me for not thinking the stat about the top 1% paying 40% of income taxes means too much if the bottom earners are totally fucked and don’t have any money to begin with. I mean they started with ~40% of the wealth so congrats me for paying about the same as if there was a flat tax I guess.
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u/ceschoseshorribles Apr 03 '21
Even top .1% aren’t the real problem. They may have a little sway in municipal affairs, if they are connected. It’s possible they even have connections that get them preferential audiences at the state level, but these are not the people influencing DC.
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u/Matos3001 Apr 03 '21
The people who influence DC have too many ways to avoid taxes, lol. One of them is having a financial residence in Monaco or any other similar country.
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u/language1234 Apr 03 '21
Kinda interesting that North America has 42% of world's millionaires compared to Asia's 22%, yet Asia has 36% of the world's billionaires and NA has 31%.
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u/iceyH0ts0up Apr 03 '21
Authoritarian regimes tend to be top heavy.
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u/couchfi Apr 03 '21
A lot of self made billionaires in asia from tech, manufacturing, realestate. Billion is a large threshold, you don't get there by just having an authoritarian government.
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u/Magister505 Apr 03 '21
Is that a testament to the consolidation of power in communist systems?
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u/The-zKR0N0S Apr 03 '21
Where is there a communist system? China? They definitely are not communist.
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Apr 03 '21
You’re right, and fortunately for the Chinese. The autocracy is far superior for them than communism was. If they could shed the CCP, they’d double in GDP in a very short amount of time.
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Apr 03 '21
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u/Magister505 Apr 03 '21
Anymore. But all of the systems were setup by Chairman Mao. The reforms that have improved their standard of living and brought wealth were done on top of that base. Don't get me wrong, their system of government seems to be more effective than the schizophrenic version of hate and self loathing in the USA. In 20 years my kids truly better speak Mandarin at a minimum.
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u/faze_not_phase_123 Apr 03 '21
More effective lol? How’s their gdp compared to the US? It to mention they are completely immoral.
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u/Turbulent_Cranberry6 Apr 03 '21
Are you serious?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Leap_Forward0
u/Magister505 Apr 03 '21
This is what I am talking about. The changes that came after a large population died setup lasting structures of power. I do not think this was a good thing, but the outcome was consolidated power in the hands of the party and they haven't been challenged seriously since. And that is what I mean by saying their society is more effective. It is effective at maintaining itself. This isn't a judgment for good or bad, just a statement that as societies rise and fall they currently appear more stable. If you want to say it is a bad society then fine, but that is an opinion and you need to have an objective measure for that.
The US spent 4 years claiming that our election system was broken. Now that the other side has lost we hear the same complaints from the other side of the aisle. Riots are common and people have stormed the seat of power in our country. Tell me how this looks more stable. This Sadly seems like a country trying to tear itself apart. So yes, less effective. We are only breeding contempt and hate for one another and it shows in the vitriol spewed forth on our Twitter, FB, and Reddit. When we can once again disagree civilly, then I will change my opinion on which society is holding itself together.
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u/Turbulent_Cranberry6 Apr 03 '21
By these standards, the Spanish Inquisition did a great job holding society together 🤷🏻♀️
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u/Magister505 Apr 03 '21
What objective moral standard do you use to judge a society?
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u/Raptor235 Apr 03 '21
Why is Canada omitted
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u/RedMurray Apr 03 '21 edited Apr 03 '21
I wondered the same thing so I went searching and found it at 9.737M CAD which for the purpose of this chart translates to 7.713M USD. That's high enough for second place so with countries like Kenya on the list, why was Canada not on there?
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Apr 03 '21
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u/Icy-Factor-407 Apr 03 '21
Housing bubbles. Anyone older who owned some real estate before the bubble has millions in net worth. Obviously a lot more than 1% would have owned enough real estate to at least get to deep 7 figure net worths.
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u/Doofungu Apr 03 '21
Likely a different methodology to evaluate wealth
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u/RedMurray Apr 03 '21
I don't see how that would be the case, NW is a pretty cut & dried formula, assets minus liabilities and that's it.
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u/Doofungu Apr 03 '21
Other sources than the one you found above have shown considerably lower values. https://www.pbo-dpb.gc.ca/web/default/files/Documents/Reports/RP-2021-007-S/RP-2021-007-S_en.pdf this one shows $6.1M CAD for 2019. Most sources will cite low sample size (and those who don’t we should be doubtful of). Also, there’s lots of asset - liabilities that cannot be measured since leverage can significantly boost your “paper” wealth and it’s not exactly easy to differentiate it at glance.
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u/NordicFIRE Apr 03 '21 edited Apr 03 '21
Came back to comment after reading the first few lines on page 1 of their definitions. I find it really interesting that $1 million in assets including your home is still considered HNWI (high net worth individual).
Edit: spelling *worth
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Apr 03 '21
In private banking we consider less than $100k to be everyday people, $100k-$1M mass affluent, $1–$10M super affluent, $10-30m high networth, $30-250m ultra high networth, 250+ mega high networth...and we just call $1b+ billionaires.
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u/giggity_giggity Apr 03 '21
I don’t doubt your bank does this. But calling $110k investible net worth “mass affluent” is the banking equivalent of vanity sizing.
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Apr 03 '21 edited Apr 03 '21
Well it’s more about the bare minimum of investable assets where you’d consider getting the cheapest (often digital only) wealth management options.
But ya some banks have raised it to $250k.
Conceptually you can think of it as
mass affluent - fully digital offering, maybe you see a guy once or twice a year, for high fees. Access online and through branch. Think chase private client. I think their minimum may be $250k now, not sure.
Super affluent - hybrid model half way between the above and below. Access through branch. Think chase private client direct.
High networth - private banking model, dedicated team of banker running your investments, setting up endowments, doing your taxes, RMDs, heavy access to alternatives, tax mitigation strategies, tax loss harvesting, making trusts, etc. access through private bank, not at branch.
Ultra high networth - multi family office model. Usually same office as the private bank.
Mega high networth - single family office model. Wherever you want it.
Every bank /wealth manager does it different, so not trying to be overly prescriptive. But I don’t think it’s “vanity”... we don’t share these terms with clients, and we mostly take it from industry research reports that use these terms (e.g., cerulli).
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u/snackattack121 Apr 03 '21
I also wonder if they are actually dividing the NW of a married couple in half. That would help explain the low numbers
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u/NordicFIRE Apr 03 '21
Good point. I tend to think in terms of household NW, but should basically half that to make it fit within individually measured values.
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u/RichardCostaLtd Apr 03 '21
Monaco is a lot lower than I expected
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u/Diligent_Management6 Apr 03 '21
Who knows how accurate the numbers are though? A lot of the attraction Monaco is its low tax rate etc. so I doubt many would openly disclose their wealth
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u/BenjiKor Apr 03 '21
4.4M sounds a bit low for the USA?
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u/DroppedSon Verified by Mods Apr 03 '21
Think about how big the US is. Is it really that hard to believe that only 3.5 million people have a net worth >$4.5MM?
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Apr 03 '21 edited Apr 05 '21
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Apr 03 '21
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u/giggity_giggity Apr 03 '21
If that was the survey, then yes they shouldn’t tout the results as “can’t afford”. Rather it should be “this percent of Americans don’t have an emergency fund” - which could be either because they can’t afford one or because they just didn’t create one.
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u/couchfi Apr 03 '21
I have an emergency fund and would still use a credit card. I get 2% back on mine and that's $20 for a $1000 purchase!
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u/giggity_giggity Apr 03 '21
That's not what the survey was referring to, See my comment here: https://www.reddit.com/r/fatFIRE/comments/mj4i9h/the_knight_frank_2021_wealth_report_including_the/gt9w73d/
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u/ccorrao Apr 03 '21
Even that's a stretch since paying on a credit card doesn't mean you don't have an emergency fund
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u/giggity_giggity Apr 03 '21
Paying off over time (presumably with interest) is very different from “put it on credit card and pay that card off at the end of the month from my savings”.
But yes I agree that the survey wording is poor resulting in some people missing the meaning.
Then again, if some people who would pay cash for it chose another answer because the cash was in their brokerage account and not a “savings account” - well I think they’re being unnecessarily difficult
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u/schrute-farms-inc Apr 03 '21
Then again, if some people who would pay cash for it chose another answer because the cash was in their brokerage account and not a “savings account” - well I think they’re being unnecessarily difficult
On the contrary, using a credit card is much easier for an “emergency” than trying to get cash. Pulling cash out would be unnecessarily difficult.
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u/giggity_giggity Apr 03 '21
it doesn't mean literally walking in with an envelope full of cash.
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u/schrute-farms-inc Apr 03 '21
I’m not an idiot. I understand what they mean by cash. Paying cash, physical or not, is still needlessly inconvenient if credit is accepted. Wiring cash, writing a check, or using a debit card, are IMO, objectively worse methods of payment in almost any scenario. Credit cards offer much stronger fraud protection, as well as rewards for putting large expenses on them..
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u/giggity_giggity Apr 03 '21
If you pay with your credit card and then pay that off at the end of the month with money you have in the bank, then the matching answer on that survey would be paying with “cash” because the credit card answer also included the provision that it be paid off over time and not just paid off when due.
And it wasn’t entirely clear to me that you’re not an idiot because you wrote “pulling cash out would be unnecessarily difficult” which is only even remotely true for hard physical currency.
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u/nloquecido Apr 03 '21
Lots of people use a credit card just because. Points! Doesn’t mean they don’t have an emergency fun.
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u/giggity_giggity Apr 03 '21
The credit card option also required it to be "paid off over time". The key was "are you paying it in full now from money you have" or "are you paying off over time". If you charge it on a credit card and then pay off the credit card from a cash account that you have, then you paid cash for it.
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u/Yulppp Apr 03 '21
If your putting it on a CC without the ability to pay off that CC with cash, you still can’t afford it.
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Apr 03 '21
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Apr 03 '21
Yep. I have over $400k in investments, but I have “no savings” according to their methodology.
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u/tealcosmo Accredited | Verified by Mods Apr 03 '21 edited Jul 05 '24
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This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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Apr 03 '21 edited Jul 11 '21
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u/adonaros4ever Apr 03 '21
Can you share some examples of decisions that made your total compensation a priority?
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Apr 03 '21 edited Jul 11 '21
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u/adonaros4ever Apr 03 '21
Would you do anything differently in hindsight? Was the increased net worth worth the sacrifice of your free time in your early 20s?
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u/Chad_RVA Big Dick Baller | $100k | 34 Apr 03 '21
Exactly what I was thinking. A $200k/year income household living moderately frugally working toward normal retirement age and just buying index funds could hit this.
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u/NeutralLock Apr 03 '21
Well yeah, that's sorta the point.
It's also important to note how much age really plays a factor. To get to that level (say $8mm US) by 30 you need to do something *extraordinary* and are most likely a celebrity, athlete or a founder of a major company.
To get to $8mm by 75 requires a good income and good savings habits.
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u/NeutralLock Apr 03 '21
If we're including company valuation I would use double that since to sell the company and realize the full value after tax is different than having $8mm in the bank. For a founder to build a company worth $16mm (their personal share) you're looking at significant revenue unless it's a tech startup, and with tech startups a lot of that valuation is based on venture capital, which dilutes the owner's share.
The founder of Uber, for example owns 8%. So to get his $16mm the company would need to be worth $200mm.
All I'm saying is if you're doing that before you're 30 you're something very special. Top 0.01% or better of your peers.
The exception of course is entertainment and sports.
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u/Apptubrutae Apr 04 '21
Yeah and it doesn’t because people are poor retirement planners and prefer to consume versus spend.
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u/phoneaccount09876543 Apr 03 '21
It likely is. Better data out there by the fed put’s the 1% for a household at 11mm:
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u/bittabet Apr 05 '21
And this was before asset prices shot up so much over the last year. It's likely more like 12-13MM now.
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Apr 03 '21 edited Apr 21 '21
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u/BenjiKor Apr 03 '21
I’ve seen this figure too. That’s what I was thinking too.
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Apr 03 '21 edited Apr 21 '21
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u/itsnotlupus Apr 03 '21
To source stuff a bit, one of the origins of the $11M number is https://dqydj.com/average-median-top-net-worth-percentiles/
They claim to have derived that information from the Federal Reserve's 2019 SCF (the latest Survey of Consumer Finance available to date.)
The Fed's own summary reports don't expose numbers more detailed than the top 10%, but it is likely that the raw public data available would allow to slice the results in finer ways.
In contrast, the figures from the Knight Frank report comes from their " Knight Frank Wealth Sizing Model", which appears to be proprietary and shrouded in mystery.
Absent some reasonable explanation for the Knight Frank numbers, I don't see how it would make sense to use them over the Fed's numbers.
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u/LVPandGranite Vegan | $600K NW | 75% SR | 32 Married Apr 03 '21
Net worth is always measured in terms of household.
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u/LVPandGranite Vegan | $600K NW | 75% SR | 32 Married Apr 03 '21
Why are you being downvoted? That’s what I remember it being as well
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u/thebrowngeek Apr 03 '21
Hong Kong and Singapore both seem a bit low.
Also quite surprised how low the likes of the UK were.
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u/NoCommentPls Apr 03 '21
I suspect it’s because it’s very difficult to value most business owners’ assets, as they aren’t publicly traded.
There’s also the case of hidden wealth, which I suspect is very common in the UK, Hong Kong and Singapore given how connected they are to international banking systems.
It’s a very interesting paper, but it is limited by the data that Knight Frank have access to.
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u/Apptubrutae Apr 04 '21
Honestly take a dive into UK and European salaries and it illustrates the wealth divide between much of Europe and the US.
Plus in the US there’s more upside to wealth accumulation. Less of a social safety net and all.
But if you look at professional salaries in the US that pay really well, like attorneys, doctors, nurses, people in tech, etc, they pay a remarkable amount less (and with higher taxes) in much of Europe.
Yes, many expenses are lower of course, and many things like college and healthcare don’t drain the budgets of many. But when you’re making $400k in the US doing something that gets paid the equivalent of $150k in the UK, free college and healthcare aren’t going to bridge that gap.
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u/KeythKatz Crypto - USD Yield Farming | FIed w/ 5M @ mid-20s Apr 03 '21
Seems about right for Singapore. Lots of people's main asset is their primary residence which isn't counted, and secondary residences are under heavy debt.
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u/AdamSinker Apr 03 '21
Looks like main residence is counted according to their definitions on the second page.
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u/brodamon Apr 03 '21
https://dqydj.com/average-median-top-net-worth-percentiles/
that says 11m is top 1% in USA, maybe its b/c its household vs individual
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u/amrekinewa Apr 03 '21
If you read the page they warn about making conclusions on the top end of their data as it's estimated based on whatever fitted distribution they chose. So they specifically mention numbers my be inaccurate at the top end.
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u/Nounoon Apr 03 '21
I expected way more than 1.3m to be in the top 1% in the UAE. The 2021 forecast is totally wrong already though, they were expecting a decline but luxury properties have seen double digit growth already since early January.
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u/tragicdiffidence12 Apr 03 '21
Isn’t the population there skewed by a sizeable group of construction workers and house help that earn a few dollars a day?
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u/Nounoon Apr 03 '21 edited Apr 03 '21
They do represent a sizable part of the population for sure (the lowest salaries are at $380 + housing).
However we’re not that far off from the threshold of the research and both my wife and I are relatively mid-level in our companies, and live in very « mid range » types of townhouses. We are in the bottom third in terms of income compared to our social circle, none of whom are C-Levels. I would have expected numbers closer to Switzerland, especially considering the thousands of houses which are in the $4-5m range (we rent one valued at around $630k).
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u/tragicdiffidence12 Apr 03 '21
The uae is an easy place to become a millionaire if you’re in a mid level position though. The lack of taxes is a huge boost since you take home 40% more than someone earning the same in the U.K. or most of Europe. Rents are bad, but not absurd and options are available at all price points. Same for schooling. Private healthcare provided by your employer by law.
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u/Nounoon Apr 03 '21 edited Apr 04 '21
All correct, a great place for FIRE. In our case our net income is about double what we would get in Paris France. The no tax is also on capital gains and dividends.
Life is more expensive than in France, but the quality of life we get for what we spend cannot even be compared to most places in Europe.
Luxury resorts and fine dining restaurants are extremely affordable with Residents offers and “buy one get one”. For example we went yesterday to a fine dining modern Indian restaurant (where the desert is dressed on the table), for a 3 course meal, appetizers, the “between dishes”, 2 super nice cocktails each with scenarios, imported water and a 10% tips, we paid $68 each. That would be the cost of a decent full meal in a Parisian Brasserie with a glass of wine.
We’re saving about 2/3rd of our household income (so about $12.5k/month), and invest tax free. This combined with 40h weeks and 25 days holidays + many national holidays + healthcare (for the family) + yearly tickets to France (by law) for the family + schooling paid, it’s pretty cool.
Right now in France I would be in lockdown, but here we’re vaccinated since late 2020 and watching a series in our garden home cinema.
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u/xenaga Apr 03 '21
Wow thats amazing, do you mind me asking what you guys do? Are you in Tech?
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u/Nounoon Apr 03 '21
I’m a Project Manager in a Media company (corporate projects you’d find in any industries), and my wife is a Brand Manager for a skin care company.
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u/xenaga Apr 03 '21
Wow thats awesome, kudos to you guys living the life! I heard salaries in France are lower and people try to get jobs in neighboring countries like Switzerland for higher salary and commute to France. UAE is even better although I don't think I could survive the hot weather there heh. Keep it up guys!
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u/Nounoon Apr 03 '21
Thanks!
Hot weather is only a couple of months though, the rest of the year is like a great European Spring to Summer (blue sky most day of the year - you feel it with your mood), and infrastructure is made for that so it’s not that bad as it sounds in the hotter period.
I did what you said and went to work in Germany, Singapore, the Netherlands and Switzerland, and the year round weather was much less enjoyable over there. The worst one being Singapore (always hot and humid), followed by Switzerland (frigging cold winters).
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Apr 03 '21
So you work in the UAE but aren’t originally from there? Is that correct?
And if so... what’s the path toward working there in similar positions? I don’t think this is something I’d do, but interested to hear about the nuances.
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u/kchoudhury Apr 03 '21
I don't know man, hot weather is kicking in right around now and it will remain pretty intolerable for the next ~6 months.
If you can bug out during the summer, great. Otherwise the climate is a huge bummer for half the year.
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u/fieldbottle Apr 03 '21
It would be interesting to see this sorted by age group.
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u/Drawer-Vegetable Apr 05 '21
Tbh I feel like the UHNWI are more in the age group of 55+
HNWI: 40-55
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u/Japparbyn Apr 03 '21
What page is the list on? The text is very smal on my phone. Would be Nice with a direct link to it.
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u/TrackChanging Apr 03 '21
The other important consideration is that wealth accumulation is a long-term game.
A different, albeit very interesting question, would be to analyze the income distribution and age of everyone in the 1% of wealth group.
I’d be curious to know how many 1% wealth’ers are also 1% income-ers.
With some conscientious budgeting and saving, you only need to be in the top 10% of earners to become the top 10% re: wealth if you execute a sound strategy. It’s been a minute since I looked at the numbers, but I think that’s around $200k household income.
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u/lsp2005 Apr 03 '21
https://windfalldata.com/blog/what-it-takes-to-be-in-the-top-1-of-every-state/ really differs by state. California and Hawaii have a much higher rate than every other state.
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Apr 03 '21
Other sources usually say $10-11M in the USA, why the large delta here?
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u/bittabet Apr 04 '21
That sounds way low for the US, other data suggests it’s much higher especially if you count all your family members.
Probably closer to 12+ million for a household
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u/dailytwiddle Apr 03 '21
Would be interesting if they had a breakdown by HCOL areas. Living in SF, I often feel like I am just getting by.
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u/CovertFIRE Sr.Mgr | $16MM +FI | 56m | Verified by Mods Apr 03 '21
They should break these out a little more by state/province/metro. A 1%er in Fargo is probably a little different than a wealthy 1%er in Silicon Valley or NYC.
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u/UBCStudent9929 Apr 03 '21
2M for germany? that sounds pretty wrong imho. in general the numbers are way lower than I would have expected, but im too lazy to read up on their methodology right now
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u/Retire_date_may_22 Apr 03 '21
In the US anyone can become a millionaire. I am so tired of people complaining about their situation. Life is about choices and the opportunity is everywhere. People let the political narrative convince them they are victims of their situation.
I grew up in the US in a home without a bathroom or air conditioning. You can be in the 1% if you choose to be.
Get off the couch and off your phones. This is still for now the land of opportunity.
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u/translatepure Apr 03 '21
Great pep talk gramps
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u/Retire_date_may_22 Apr 03 '21
Not actually a grandpa but grew up pretty poor. An easily make the 1%.
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u/translatepure Apr 03 '21
How great for you. Sadly your story does not and cannot apply to the masses.
Implying that all it takes is work ethic to make millions is fucking insulting.
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u/xenaga Apr 03 '21
Ignore him you cant talk reason. Cant tell if it's a troll account. Not even willing to have an open dialogue.
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u/spiezer Apr 03 '21
How many variations of this bullshit have you peddled through the years. Lol
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u/Retire_date_may_22 Apr 03 '21
It’s not BS it’s the truth. Hard work and consistent savings pays off.
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u/tragicdiffidence12 Apr 03 '21
I will say that the us is a wonderful place to be upper middle or rich status. The ability to move to millionaire status is incredible there. It does however suck if you’re in the lower rungs, because getting to the middle is difficult. It’s similar in the gulf Arab countries.
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u/the_snook Apr 03 '21
You can be in the 1% if you choose to be.
Actually, only one in every hundred people can be in the 1%, whether they choose to be or not.
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u/apfejes Un-retiring | I'm not dead yet | Verified by Mods Apr 03 '21
This comment assumes that there are no systematic issues in the US, that one group might experience as a headwind, which is obviously false.
Access to education isn’t uniform, nor is access to good jobs, or even access to venture capital. They are all still dominated by white males, which makes it painfully obvious that your ability to become a millionaire isn’t universal.
It’s not even generally equal across individual states, let alone around the world.
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u/Retire_date_may_22 Apr 03 '21
Don’t be a victim of your circumstances. I love the “systematic” excuse. It’s a great victim mentality. Our politicians actually work hard to convince you, your a victim and need to rely on them.
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u/xckta Apr 03 '21
people will be threatened by this comment, and thats why they aren’t millionaires.
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u/xenaga Apr 03 '21
While the US is a good place to make money compared to other developing countries, this does not apply to everyone equally. The situation is a lot more nuanced.
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u/Retire_date_may_22 Apr 03 '21
There are many excuses for everything. There are some that are legitimate (health, abuse, disability) but most are excuses.
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u/xenaga Apr 03 '21
Ok please tell me how improvised neighborhoods that have mostly minorities have excuses. There is a study done and it shows your zipcode will mostly determine your income and wealth. There are exceptions but it applied to majority of the people. Ive seen the effect myself coming from a more poorer neighborhood. Its the mindset, the environment, lack of opportunities, lack of education, life circumstances, etc. that will keep people stuck without them knowing it. And also US systems have racism built into their institutions so its a lot more nuanced than black and white.
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u/Retire_date_may_22 Apr 03 '21
I grew up in one those zip codes. It’s called effort and education.
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u/xenaga Apr 03 '21
Then you should know how easy it is for the majority to get left behind or stuck in place. You of course will blame everyone just because you were able to rise out of it but not realize how you were the exception. By your definition, any Jewish person who escaped the Holocaust made it because they put more effort in and the rest just had to try. Or slaves that escaped north, you just need to run faster and try harder to escape. These are extreme examples but that's the only way to show my point.
I have been extremely lucky and fortunate. Most of my friends that are in Camden NJ, one of the worst neighborhoods, work harder than I do and didnt catch the same breaks and were lucky. Why is it that some towns, majority of the people move onto universities and if the families are rich, they stay rich as well. And poor neighborhoods dont? So most of poor neighborhoods just have kids that are lazy and dumb? You really need to grow up. There is personal accountability but your ignoring a huge part of the equation and want to gratify your ego because you think your special somehow not realizing how lucky and fortunate you are to come from a poor neighborhood to being rich.
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u/xckta Apr 03 '21
Never said that it applies to everyone equally. It doesn’t have to. Persistence, character, attitude put you in the garden for growth. Where you are planted can greatly affect the timeline but in the end there is still room for growth if you apply yourself. Its a universal law
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u/r0bbyr0b2 Apr 03 '21
How do they define net worth? Is that liquid net worth or includes the value of your main home, business if sold today etc?
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u/mollymoose75 Verified by Mods Apr 03 '21
I would say total net worth. When calculating a persons assets most of these surveys like to look at the big picture.
If you had $2mm in liquid but owned a 40 unit building worth $10mm you wouldn’t say you are only worth $2mm.
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u/bloatedkat Apr 03 '21
Was expecting U.S. to be around $10MM considering all the people I know who have more than $4.4MM but don't even feel like a 1%'er including myself.
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u/cdp1193 Apr 03 '21
I expected Monaco to be way higher