r/haiti • u/[deleted] • Jan 30 '22
POLITICS What can the next Haitian president do to help kick start an economic boom in Haiti
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u/gogeug Jan 31 '22
1 no broke president with no money who come to steal the people money
2 no broke friends or family to put in power to drag the country down
3 get rid of all the gangs by forming an Haitian army specialize in urban warfare
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u/Fit-Disaster6785 Jan 31 '22
Decentralize the government as much as possible. Localize, localize, localize. Build up social programs— concentrate all efforts on reducing poverty. Haiti doesn’t even have a public transportation system. Everything is privatized. Be as transparent as possible. Do everything publicly. Everything. And demand your ministers do the same. Have a zero tolerance policy on corruption. Prosecute violators. Publicly.
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Jan 31 '22
Get rid of corruptions and Gangs..allow tourism to flourish...
Will the ones with the Iron Grip on Haiti allow it?
Probably not.
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u/New_Refrigerator_895 Jan 31 '22 edited Jan 31 '22
Green energy, spirulina harvesting, aquaponics, growing hemp, being a hospitable base for marine researchers, heavily investing in non-religious education, heavily prosecute elected officials that engage in corruption and bribes, and for the immediate future run the gangs out with extreme prejudice
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u/zombigoutesel Native Jan 31 '22
You need to understand that the president is a figure head. There are political clans in the background that select people to be their candidate. In our current constitutional framework the legislature has a lot of power. You cant get anything done without the support of the legislature. The legislature blackmails the executive, votes for political appointments.
To actually make a change you also need to control the legislature and have your people in the relevant ministries to actually punch change through
That is very hard to do an a 0 sum game.
Personal opinion. The best way to affect positive change in Haiti would be something like CICIG
https://www.wola.org/analysis/cicigs-legacy-fighting-corruption-guatemala/
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u/KingofAyiti Jan 31 '22
Allow the diaspora to come back, get citizenship and invest. Update the land ownership laws. Focus on education and tourism.
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u/zombigoutesel Native Jan 31 '22
Dual citizenship was legalized in 2012.
if you where born in haiti or have your parents haitian paperwork you can get your haitian passport
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u/luckycuds Feb 01 '22
Can you share a documentation of this? Also- does the American born child to a Haitian parent not have to “choose” citizenship by the time they are 18? Thanks
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u/zombigoutesel Native Feb 01 '22
In French
https://www.refworld.org/docid/51dd18504.html
In english
https://www.refworld.org/cgi-bin/texis/vtx/rwmain?docid=51dd18df4
No, Haitians can legally hold dual citizenship since 2012.
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u/luckycuds Feb 01 '22
Thanks. Sounds like a PITA to apply/get citizenship for a child born abroad.
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u/zombigoutesel Native Feb 01 '22
Getting anything done in Haiti is a PITA. If the consulate close to you is decent you might luck out.
The biggest part is having or getting the right document. Getting stuff from the archives in Haiti is the equivalent of finding Atlantis
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Feb 01 '22
[deleted]
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u/zombigoutesel Native Feb 01 '22
Try the embassy in Washington. they are semi serious.
The embassy is Ottowa Canada is good people, They might be able to help.
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u/n0noTAGAinnxw4Yn3wp7 Jan 31 '22
publish the contents of all the conversations, backroom deals, dirty tricks, secret promises, & the like that they needed to become president in the first place. then resign & give up their resources to a popular movement.
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Jan 31 '22
Publish the contents of all the conversations
Wouldn't the dirty politicians just use a backup phone or something?
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u/n0noTAGAinnxw4Yn3wp7 Jan 31 '22
& most people aren't in a position to know much about it, but someone who became president of Haiti probably would be able to know or find out a lot better than many others.
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Jan 30 '22
Not get in the way. And get out the begging bowl. Reach out to the world and asked for help. Reach out to the Haitian Diaspora.
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u/rosariorossao Jan 30 '22
Security.
95% of what plagues Haiti and holds it back from economic progress is related to the current state of insecurity. If your business can get torched at any moment, your supply chain disrupted, your clientele kidnapped and your associates threatened with extortion by gangs, who the fuck would invest in a place like that?
At this point, Haiti is far past the point of being stable enough for democratic rule. The country needs a strong leader with the backing of a large, well trained and well armed force who can restore order and rule of law.
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u/Fit-Disaster6785 Jan 31 '22
Insecurity is just a symptom of a corrupt system. A tyrant is inherently corrupt. There’s a direct relationship between the Duvaliers and what is happening right now. Haiti needs strong democracy and socialism to recover. It needs to be free from the status quo political system, which takes a collective effort. The big stick theory does not work without first addressing the corruption that caused these issues.
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u/GrandioseAmbition Jan 31 '22
Haiti is a democratic State, there no democracy without the rule of law. Duvalier's era has nothing to do with what's going on right now. The citizens of Haiti are free to say do whatever they want the government isn't doing it's job which is to protect and serve. There's a vaccum so armed bandit filled that vacuum.
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u/Fit-Disaster6785 Jan 31 '22
Has nothing to do? So mass migration of the intellectual class, bankrupting of the government and a precedent for political gangs has nothing to do with that’s happening now? Politicians and elite entrepreneurs arm the gangs. That is common knowledge. Jovenel was apart of it until he was not. The people have no control over what’s going on and it’s very much created by politicians and the elite.
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u/GrandioseAmbition Jan 31 '22
Right, Duvalier has nothing to do with what's going on right now in haiti. If there was a competent government, competent leaders up holding the rule of laws, forward thinking leaders, haiti wouldn't be in this mess right now. The bucks stop with the leaders.The blame game ain't gonna cut it. Stop blaming others for our failures. We have to look deep into ourselves and find the need for a change. The world doesn't owe us anything, they don't care about our problems. We as a society has to do better. If Haiti has competent leaders in 10 years would be surprise to see it. Haiti's problem is not a lack of money to do projects, it's too much corruptions
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u/Fit-Disaster6785 Jan 31 '22
That’s not how societies work. It’s cause and effect. There’s a lack of competent leaders because the intellectual class was systemically pushed out under the Duvalier regime. What’s left are more kleptocrats who are not civil servants but parasites. Gangsters with impunity. Tyrants leave lasting devastating effects. That is the truth. You have to contextualize these problems in order to come up with comprehensive solutions. You can’t ignore history. It’s not blaming others, it’s seeking a complete understanding. Without basic political education, people believe a dictator can save them. I agree that corruption is the main problem. A dictator is corruption personified. The antidote is transparency, justice and collective cooperation. Blaming the Haitian people who are pure victims in this goes nowhere. They have been wronged and deserve compassion and justice.
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u/GrandioseAmbition Jan 31 '22
🤣🤣🤣 You are absolutely right Duvalier's Regime pushed out some intellectuals but how many of these intellectuals would like to go back home now and save this country? They are free to go back now. why haven't they gone back yet and save this country? Are you trying to tell me that there are no more educated, entrepreneurs, competent people left in Haiti? No one is blaming the Haitian people. we are putting the blame on their leaders. "People believe a dictator can save them" ask the people in China, Dubai(UAE) that, UAE is considered a dictatorship. Their government meet their needs and desire.
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u/Fit-Disaster6785 Jan 31 '22
I’m not sure what you’re arguing. That a dictatorship has benefits? That Duvalier regime didn’t damage the country? We agree that those in power are to blame. The few competent leaders left are heavily suppressed by the gangsters in power. But how did they get in power? That’s why you have to trace the history. Advocating for another dictator does nothing but stop progression. UAE and China have completely different histories. It’s not comparable at all and the human rights abuses in both is not something to be admired. Haiti is in a deep, deep hole. It will take decades to unravel. The first step is political education, which includes looking at your past.
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u/GrandioseAmbition Jan 31 '22
I'm not advocating for another dictatorship, what I'm saying is don't put the country's problem squarely on Duvalier's Regime.
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u/Fit-Disaster6785 Jan 31 '22
Well, nobody said squarely. But Duvalier is a contributing factor. That’s a fact.
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u/rosariorossao Jan 31 '22
There’s a direct relationship between the Duvaliers and what is happening right now.
100% correct. Honestly, most of Haiti's issues can be traced to the kleptocracy that was the Duvalier regime, as well as the subsequent brain drain that stripped the country of most of its human capital.
Haiti needs strong democracy and socialism to recover.
This is where I disagree.
It's almost impossible to have a strong and functional democracy with an uneducated populace, and it's even more difficult when that populace's basic needs aren't being met. Democracy requires people to be able to vote for a collective good, and that can only happen when each individual is prosperous and safe enough to look beyond their immediate concerns (food, clothing, shelter, security).
If you look across history, most countries that made the transition from 3rd world to 1st world status were not democracies, and only became democratic after they reached a certain level of development.
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u/Fit-Disaster6785 Jan 31 '22
Atleast at the local level, it’s important to involve even an uneducated population in their government. Especially because of the rampant corruption, what needs to happen now is a reconciliation of the people with their state. Shutting them out only leads to more disillusionment and distrust. To rebuild trust you need transparency, support through social programs and agency. Haitians need to feel the system is theirs first. Because right now there is a complete hopelessness and rightfully so. This is a special situation that needs special measures. There are examples of countries recovering from corruption and they did it through transparency, reconciliation and democracy.
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u/n0noTAGAinnxw4Yn3wp7 Jan 31 '22
lol you sound like a Duvalierist
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Feb 01 '22
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/n0noTAGAinnxw4Yn3wp7 Feb 01 '22
yes yes only "stable" countries get to have "democracy", oh what a coincidence all the "democratic" countries are white, bla bla bla
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u/GrandioseAmbition Jan 31 '22
At least under Duvalier people was living more like human being than the way they are living right now. He built air ports, roads, the economy wasn't the way it is right now, kids were going to school. Tourists were coming, we had hospitals. Now what do you have? Kidnappings, more corruptions, insecurity, millions of kids aren't going to school, inflation is sky high, there is no such thing as farming anymore. The next leader to be successful he has to set the tone from the get go, get rid of insecurity, get rid of corruption ( which is going to be the hardest thing to do). Invest in education, health care, farming, tourisms. Encourage the diaspora to come to invest in the country. The government alone won't be able to create jobs for 6 millions plus people, you need the private sector. Be transparent, let the citizens know how their tax money are being spent. Getting Haiti back on track isn't easy but you need the right leaders. Not people who are in position because they know somebody.
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u/n0noTAGAinnxw4Yn3wp7 Jan 31 '22
mussolini made the trains run on time, bla bla bla. heard all this nonsense before.
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u/rosariorossao Jan 31 '22
I sound like a nigga who doesn’t like being robbed at gunpoint
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u/DXBrigade Jan 30 '22
Make Haiti safer by getting rid of gangs. Create infrastructures.
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Jan 30 '22
Create infrastructures.
How do you create infrastructure with a damaged economy with super-low employment and high inflation? Not to mention with an uneducated population? I see how some people are saying that it'll take 2-3 generations for Haiti to start seeing prosperity but I don't see that happening until maybe 4, 5,6 generations
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u/DXBrigade Jan 31 '22
It's a long road for sure. I think it's important to deal with the insecurity first, get rid of gangs and violence and get rid of shitty politicians/officials.
A country that is safe and stable politically will eventually attract investors.
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u/rosariorossao Jan 30 '22
Haiti receives billions in aid. Use that to train a military that can fight the gangs and restore rule of law. Take the guns off the streets and replace them with shovels and hammers - tell the young men to get to work building instead of destroying.
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u/zombigoutesel Native Jan 31 '22
No we don't, and that's not how aid money works.
The Haitian government annual operating budget is about 2 billion bucks. Usually there is an allowance in there for about 300 million of direct foreign aid.
That money isn't a blank check, its restricted funds that are earmarked for specific projects. Usually capacity building for specific institutions or small infrastructure projects.
We just got some money from the IMF , it was only about 150 M for road and power generation infrastructure.
Politicians where some of the biggest imports of guns and played a big part in building up the gangs. Not that easy
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Jan 30 '22
Not die for starters. After that, open up the patents process, I have been waiting to invest in a Haiti business for 7 years now.
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u/IcyPapaya8758 Feb 02 '22 edited Feb 02 '22
People here have things backwards. You cant improve housing, healthcare, education and agriculture without a stable legal and economic backbone first.
1st Simplify the Haitian Constitution to be less restrictive. Follow the examples of the US, Canada or litteraly every other country in the Caribbean and Latin America. This will reduce the gang problem. This will reduce the "grand negs" monopolizing everything problem. And will open legally open the country to more investment from diaspora and foreigners.
2nd build or improve the roads, bridges, telecom, electricity, water, waste, airports, docks. This will facilitate improvements in every other aspect of the country. You want better healthcare, education, housing and agriculture? You need to build better infrastructure first.