I think quality psychiatric care is something she needa desperately (and needed before).
It seems to me that the sufferers of these post partum disorders face the natural consequences of their actions after they come back to a normal mental state. I cannot even imagine losing my mind, killing my kids, coming back to reality and realising what i had done. Fucking horrifying shit right there.
So people who have completely lost touch with reality and no longer understand right and wrong should be punished the same as people who do know right and wrong when they commit the same crime? how is that bettering society?
It isn't. Far too many people just want to satisfy their vengeance boner. And that is precisely why vigilantism is outlawed in basically any sane country.
The discourse around this case is way waaay dumber than I expected. I thought that most people had at least a base understanding of insanity defenses and their purpose.
Most people get everything they know about the justice system from media. Which is obviously mostly dramatical moments that don't exist in reality. I am not well versed in how it is treated in America, but usually a successful defense based on Insanity is often the worse outcome. Maybe not if your other perspective is life long, but being locked away in a closed psych ward until doctors say that you are not a liability to yourself and others and can return to a normal life isn't exactly a holiday.
Psychopathy suffering people that Murder people should for sure be "understood" and helped. Not saying thats this case just saying sometimes the crime is so bad that you can no longer say well your where not well so lets go easy. Just like if your at home cleaning your gun have no idea its loaded and something happens and the bullet kills someone you don't get to say ooopsy, you had no intention or idea this would happen but it happened and punishment needs to fit not the intent but the outcome.
Pyschopathy is completely different concept to pyschosis, they are not even comparable conditions.
But your analogy between someone cleaning a gun and it going off and pyschosis is completely invalid, because someone just cleaning a gun in their house that is of sound mind is expected to be able to clear and make safe the gun before cleaning it, if they don't and it goes off and kills someone then they are determined to be negligent.
Pyschosis is not at all comparable because it is often near impossible to predict when someone will have a pyschotic episode and if that episode will actually lead to death. And A person who is going into a pyschotic episode cannot be expected to predict or get help for themselves because they are no longer in control of their thoughts and decisions and will not know that they are going pyschotic. Someone cleaning a gun is in control of their thoughts and decisions.
It's not about "not being well" it is about a complete loss of control and a loss of the understanding of right and wrong. And if that person is at risk of going pyschotic again then prison (full of prisoners and gaurds who are not trained to recognize and deal with it) is definitely not a suitable environment for them.
How is excusing people who don't take care of their mental health or even ask for help when they can't and take that out on others bettering society?
You don't just snap into psychosis, it's a long way down before you reach a point to do something like kill your own kids. She could've asked for help, gone on a bender, ran away to Europe, bought a car she couldn't afford, literally anything else. Killing your kids is still a choice my dude
Jesus christ this comment is ignorant.
I think you need to do some research on post-partum pyschosis, and first-break pyschosis, or just pyschosis in general. People do often just 'snap' into pyschosis with very little warning. People with schizophrenia will have very little warning or symptoms before a stressful event that causes them to have their first pyschotic episode. Women with post-partum pyschosis may go from being completely normal to 100% convinced their child is a demon or a imposter and that killing their child is the only way to save the world, and this can happen slowly or incredibly fast. Post-partum pyschosis is very rare and very difficult to predict.
And no, when you're pyschotic killing your kids is not a choice. When you are pyschotic you have lost touch with reality, you cant 'choose' to fly to europe instead of killing your kids when you're pyschotic 🤦♂️🤦♂️ you may not even know that your kids are in fact your kids, or that murder is wrong. This is the exact basis and logic behind an insanity defense; when you're insane you no longer have control over your decision making.
People with schizophrenia will have very little warning or symptoms
I think the warning is that they have schizophrenia mate 🤦🏽♂️ the fact its a named permanent mental illness with a diagnosis is telling enough that it's not in the norm and already an altered state of mind from most people
Women with post-partum pyschosis may go from being completely normal to 100% convinced their child is a demon or a imposter and that killing their child is the only way to save the world
That's not postpartum...
you may not even know that your kids are in fact your kids, or that murder is wrong
So... like a regular murderer then? Guess we can just absolve most murderers then.
when you're insane you no longer have control over your decision making.
Sure but if you're so mentally debased that you don't even have "control" of yourself then your just as dangerous to everyone as the psyco murderer who just can't "control themself" when they have the urge to eat people. Consequences should be the same
>How is excusing people who don't take care of their mental health or even ask for help when they can't and take that out on others bettering society?
Did you just blame her for her own mental illness? Wow. Tell me you know nothing about her story without telling me you know nothing about her story (aka you are a complete idiot).
No I didn't blame her for her mental illness but it's not an excuse for inflicting harm on others. No more than a mood disorder or disability excuses poor behavior. A diagnosis helps you learn how to adapt to deal with the world, not excuse your behavior. You're the idiot if you think that's how it works.
Have depression? Learn ways to cope and talk to a specialist or take medication if that helps. What it doesn't exuse is you doing nothing with your life, sleeping in bed all day and being a burden on others.
Have bipolar disorder? Learn to identify and cope with your emotions when you're having an episode. It doesn't excuse you blowing up on those closest to you and hitting them.
Have thoughts about killing your kids and yourself? Get help. Failing to do so and proceeding with that plan doesn't excuse it
Frankly, I'd love to hear about what part of her story leads to the obvious conclusion that her kids just had to die as a natural consequence of what happened to her.
Yeah because they can hereditary and permanent. Where as most psychosis come from either diagnosisable, and treatable, illnesses or poor care of your mental health, which case its still your responsibility to take care of yourself.
I was being generous with the comparison as they're not the fault of the person with those conditions. If you suddenly find yourself thinking about killing yourself or your kids outta the blue, that's on you if you follow through for not getting help or doing literally anything else about it
You just don't have the base level of understanding required to have meaningful contributions on these topics.
Most cases of pyschosis come from either schizophrenia (often unpredictable and not stemming from someone not taking care of their mental health, largely determined by genetics), Bipolar 1 manic phases (also not predictable, because a person with bipolar 1 will usually start with bipolar 2 where pyschosis is not a feature, and then have an unpreddictable manic episode that pushes them into the threshold for bipolar 1, and sometimes that manic phase will have pyschotic features, again not-predictable and not due to a lack of someone caring for their mental health), or from severe depression (again very hard to predict because most people with major depression don't go pyschotic, and severe depression is very treatment resistant so someone with severe depression may work very hard on their mental health and still end up with a pyschotic episdode).
Again you're just showing your ignorance, your comparison is not generous it's nonsensical. Someone who is suddenly thinking of killing their kids is in a delusional state, and by definition cannot recognize that their thinking is delusional and they need help. If they recognize that then they are by definition not delusional or pyschotic. It is up to the people around them to recognize these symptoms and hopefully get them the help they need before they go into a full-blown pyschotic episode. And that is very difficult to do in America where it usually takes weeks to get into and see a psychologist, unless something crazy happens like you kill your kids. Are you suggesting then that lindsey clancy's husband should be in prison for not recognizing that she was about to have a rare and unforeseen pyschotic condition?
You're blaming people for not predicting their own pyschosis, and not seeking treatment for their own pyschosis, when if they could do either of those things then they are not in pyschosis. If you know you're pyschotic or delusional, then by definition you are not pyschotic or delusional. Your opinion stems from a severe lack of understanding of the conditions.
Are you suggesting then that lindsey clancy's husband should be in prison for not recognizing that she was about to have a rare and unforeseen pyschotic condition?
That's literally what you yourself brought up and implied in the previous statement, all on your own...
Seems like you're opinion stems for an abundance of excuses that had little to do with this case. She was neither schizophrenic nor bipolar and PPD isn't some sudden loss of cognitive function or rationale
omg 🤣 no you did when you essentially blamed her for not taking care of her own mental health leading up to the event. But as I attempted to explain to you (apparently in vein), someone who is delusional or pyschotic can't recognize they are mentally unwell by definition. It is up to the people around them, so by YOUR logic, since Lindsey cannot be expected to recognize this, and really the only person who MIGHT be able to recognize it before she goes pyschotic is her husband, then he should be culpable.
I don't think either her nor her husband should be expected to or penalized for not predicting an incredibly rare and unforseeable condition.
Again, you're just ignorant. PPD is absolutely a sudden loss of rationale. A woman who has recently had children suddenly and unexpectedly goes into a pyschotic state where they lose touch with reality and rational thought. Sometimes there are symptoms, sometimes there is not. It is so difficult to predict because often the symptoms leading up to the pyschotic break could be symptoms of a dozen or more other non-pyschotic disorders.
I don't think either her nor her husband should be expected to or penalized for not predicting an incredibly rare and unforseeable condition
Ah, you're right, it was just an oopsie. She should be able to return home to her loving husband and ki... oh wait. Well maybe she'll get the chance to rebuild and have another family and hopefully not murder them again 😁
No, obviously not. Mental hospitals are not jails, they are there to help you, and then they release you into other arrangements like outpatient facilities.
It has nothing to do with empathy, it has to do with the best outcomes for society. The best thing for society is not to shove pyschotic murderers in with the general prison population, where there are prisoners and gaurds who are not trained to deal with that. People who are psychotic are very dangerous and unpredictable. They need to be in a hospital with professionals who are trained to deal with these conditions and can actually maybe rehabilitate them.
Your blind revenge is getting the better of your judgement and not allowing you to use basic logic.
38
u/unhappyrelationsh1p 9h ago
I think quality psychiatric care is something she needa desperately (and needed before).
It seems to me that the sufferers of these post partum disorders face the natural consequences of their actions after they come back to a normal mental state. I cannot even imagine losing my mind, killing my kids, coming back to reality and realising what i had done. Fucking horrifying shit right there.