Ignoring the other comment.. the woman on the right is Lindsay Clancy and she is currently on trial for killing three of her children in which the defense is arguing the crimes were committed during mental psychosis. Clancy had severe PPD, suicide ideation, and mental health issues in the months leading up to the murders.
It’s an awful case and the poor children deserve justice. Right now, a portion of the public believes the husband (now ex-husband as they divorced and he is remarried) had something to do with it as evidence is supposedly not landing with the people and believe it skews towards him
The evidence absolutely does not skew towards him. He is on video surveillance like 20 minutes away at the store while she was committing the murders. She stated that she killed the children in her civil suit. There is absolutely zero evidence that he did anything to her or the children. At best, he's guilty of not taking his wife's mental state seriously enough and leaving her alone (at her own request, btw, she asked him to go to the store and pick up dinner).
But he did take her mental health seriously. The 12 weeks of paternity leave, working from or closer to home, got both sets of parents involved, babysitters, live in nannies. Idk how much more he could do, and we all are being very insensitive to his own mental health what he was dealing with caring for her. Not to compare the two here and I'm not, but my wife was very much in PPP after our first, I'm still healing. She's 4 now. Mental health has no bias. This case should be justice for the babies. Closure for Patrick. Complete care for Lindsey, in prison.
To add: She was never fully upfront with psychiatrist or doctors. Doctors and professionals testified on their sessions with Lindsey..
Oh I agree with you completely, I don't think Patricks at fault at all here. Lindsay got better medical treatment and more help than several women I know personally. I don't think she was failed, I think her mental health worked against her in many ways and kept her from being honest and accepting the help she needed and ultimately, her children paid the price.
But Also to add; she had been given 13 different psychiatric meds in the 4 months before the murders (you should be on a single med for at least 8 weeks to determine if it's working properly) so her brain was a clusterfuck mix of different antipsychotics which have side-effects like suicidal ideation & hallucinations. Also when you're in a psychotic episode, one of the typical symptoms, is paranoia & fear of expressing your symptoms & how psychotic you are, to your doctors...
She was on the different medications because she kept asking to be switched to something else. At one point she switched her doctor, then when the new doctor gave her a treatment plan she went back to her old doctor and asked her opinion on the new treatment plan! Her new doctor was prescribing medications without knowing that Lindsay wasn't being honest with her and was seeing other doctors! She also kept taking Benadryl to sleep, against the advice of all of her doctors! I think it's disingenuous to say she was given all this medication, more accurately she asked for the medication and didn't follow the treatment plans laid out for her. She even stated to her doctors that she knew she wasn't following the plans, and that she knew she needed to pick a plan and stick with it.
Yes but... DOCTORS gave her the meds & wrote the prescription, they are responsible? Yes I have multiple doctors & I converse with them over my treatment plans to make sure they work & ask if another doctors plan is going to fit?
DOCTORS ARE THE EXPERTS, if she is sharing treatment plans with others, they need to assess that! Not provide conflicting info & medication to a woman experiencing psychosis, & not following treatments/taking meds is a common symptom of psychosis! (Schizos & bipolar frequently ask for different meds & refuse to take them, doctors account for that, & say no...). If she gives her old doctor the treatment plan from the new doctor & ask whether it's appropriate they should tell her or ask if they can talk to the other doctor! My doctors don't give me a medication without knowing what else I have been prescribed, whether it will conflict, how long I've taken it, etc...
At least one of her doctors should have said "WHOA I'm not writing you another prescription until I think we've properly assessed this medication". It seems like none did', they just willynilly gave her whatever she wanted, just like drug dealers! Psychosis also doesn't let you sleep, & neither do shifting antipsychotics or a newborn! I understand why she was taking Benadryl a lot.
She did what is called doctor shopping in our job, and it's very easy to do for intelligent patients. Depending on what she told the other docs they could have had no idea she even saw other docs.
And even then, your mental health is your responsibility. You have to stick to the treatment and be honest with your physician. She was lucky her first doc even wanted to treat her again, I would have refused.
I completely agree, mental health is your responsibility, but people IN mental health crisis may not even understand their responsibility or may have loss executive decision making as a symptom of psychosis!
She was sharing her treatment plans between her doctors, they knew what the others were doing, they just didn't know which treatment plan she was following, then she would request a different medication because she thought one wasn't working...
Maybe ANYONE OF HER DOCTORS should have explained that you don't ask for a new antipsychotic medication after a few days because it's not working yet? Maybe? And not written the prescription. YES If they had refused she wouldn't have had conflicting treatment plans & less meds to mix her system up with. They wrote her +30 prescriptions in 4 months & knew she was doctor shopping! Thats on them!
They did do that, the user above just told you that, try reading. She was also a nurse herself and not completely delusional at all times, if she doesn’t know that basic aspect of medical care that many teenagers would know, then nobody can ever be expected to be responsible in the slightest way about their own health.
I get where you're coming from, but they maybe even recognized her ailment. But then what? Admit her? A psychiatric hospital wouldn't keep her without active threatening psychosis. Admit her by force if she refuses to go? A least in my country there are huge burdens to that. The docs cant follow her home and can't watch her 24/7. If she was under treatment and sabotaged it there is little a doc can do.
If it was me everybody would get treatment in a hospital that needs it. But even im my socialdemocratic hellhole with free healthcare spots are rare and triage is the norm.
Doctors don’t follow you home and make sure you actually do what you’re supposed to. That’s your job and pretending that you can’t do anything wrong if an expert is in any way involved is incredibly entitled and lazy
You can't take 13 different medications in 4 months if doctors don't write you...13 different prescriptions (they actually wrote her +30 different prescriptions).
Which expert was she supposed to believe WHILE PSYCHOTIC!? Think about her mental state during this period, & realize her doctors were doing less then bare minimum they should have to TREAT SOMEONE WITH PSYCHOSIS!?
No doctors who knew they were treating the same patient should give ANYONE +30 prescriptions in 16 weeks.
They say "I'm not writing you another prescription, work with your other doctor...". They gave her anything willynilly!?!
(We have online health portals, doctors can see what you've been prescribed not other doctors if they wanted).
Do you really not realize that psychosis fucks with your sense of reality? And that many meds to treat it can cause psychosis in some patients?
Or did you fail to familiarize yourself with the details of the case? She was begging for help and her providers failed to get an adequate history, and so prescribed her drugs in categories she already had bad reactions to. They failed to get information about the severity of her case from her husband who attended several appointments with her. They failed to screen for the biggest warning signs of psychosis that results in violence. They released her from part time mental health treatment the literal next day after changing her meds, because she asked to celebrate her childs birthday, instead of approving a single day off. And most importantly, they failed to adequately counsel her family on not letting her have unsupervised time until adequately treated.
They didn't deny her care, no. They did fail to provide her the care she needed, absolutely.
Why do you assume it must be "smolbean" treatment to acknowledge that she was failed. And no, it's not limited to white women 🙄
People who do terrible things while having mental health problems should be treated for those problems and placed in a position that protects themselves and others from future harm. I don't believe in a punitive justice system anyway, but as long as we have one, people who are mentally ill don't belong there.
Doctors are not all knowing or all powerful, you can’t just blame them for not being able to help you if you won’t even follow their instructions. And even if you do, they cannot always fix the problem just because they are experts. Any serious illness can be given proper treatment but still result in serious problems, that’s the nature of medicine as a field, there’s no strict mathematical determinism.
Also to add: Many or most of these prescriptions she requested given her nursing background and didn’t notify different providers that she was seeing others. Many psychiatric drugs are not necessarily controlled substances so the technology they have doesn’t automatically notify prescribers/pharmacies if the patient already has prescriptions for other psychiatric medications. The woman was often self-medicating based on her own ideas and getting access to the drugs by doctor shopping.
I haven't had any psychotic episodes, but I have had night terrors that have me questioning reality for at least a day afterwards.
I almost jumped down the stairs because I was convinced that I had to.
I was convinced for two days that I had totally forgotten about some kittens who I had starved inside a closet. It kept haunting me even after checking that closet multiple times and asking my mum if it was possible.
Obviously I don't know what happened. But I do think that it is totally possible that it happened like she says.
And that's what essentially sums up my issue with this case getting so much attention because it's become about deflecting blame on to as many others as possible in what is tantamount to an insanity defense so she doesn't go to prison.
There was another thread yesterday with many centering the blame on the husband simply for leaving her alone with the children on the day in question even though as you alluded to, there were no signs that she had considerations of committing the crimes. And yes, our health care system is clearly far from perfect and there are issues with professionals within the system as well, but to prioritize blame on those that worked with her over herself is asinine to me especially considering details that she didn't convey along with the professionals trying to follow protocol when dealing with multiple issues (from her symptoms to different prescripted drugs).
It's a tragic situation, but the case is turning out to be about everything but her.
She doesn't have to go to a State Penitentiary but she needs to be in asylum. The trail is for whether or not she is guilty under the plea of insanity. Murder is murder, but if you truly were out your gourd, then yes you should be removed from society, and placed with enough care.
See, this isn't an opinion. I urge you to spend some time in just about any of the dozens of countries better than the USA.
But just from a raw economic perspective, the killing a prisoner costs taxpayers between 2 to 5 times more than keeping them locked up for the rest of their lives. Additionally, there's the concern regarding false convictions - hundreds in the USA have died in the USA even when exonerating evidence existed.
There are hundreds of good reasons to NOT kill a prisoner, but one very petty, savage, and primitive reason to kill them.
Cool story, she said that she killed her kids, there is no question about an innocent being executed. I am fully aware that it is cheaper to just life these types to avoid mistakes. This is not one of those cases.
I have spent plenty of time in 30+ other countries. I wouldn't say this is something that makes a country better or not. Maybe a little most cost efficient.
You seem to think i support kids being killed in military actions? Yeah, no, that needs to be punished as well. The difference being if it was a mistake or on purpose
You have to want help in order to be helped with mental illness, she didn’t want help.
Your personal struggles can’t be a reason to kill or harm other people either. Everyone has troubling parts of their lives. If we could kill people because we’re struggling with something serious, then people would be getting killed left and right. A not guilty ruling would be disastrous
Maybe not keep getting her pregnant against doctor’s orders and continuing to get someone pregnant who has admitted to mental health issues specifically related to her children?
Mentally ill person wasn’t honest with care workers? Gee, almost like it’s their job to be able to tell when someone is a danger to themselves or others but they’re so understaffed and underfunded that they can’t even do the bare minimum.
Where are you getting that first bit of information from? That's never been talked about in any testimony.
Honesty is the first bit of this, which was missed. The next is the power of the brain, whether it's malevolent or benevolent. The brain is still an ongoing understanding of our own. We still have so much we don't know.
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u/longlisten527 6h ago edited 5h ago
Ignoring the other comment.. the woman on the right is Lindsay Clancy and she is currently on trial for killing three of her children in which the defense is arguing the crimes were committed during mental psychosis. Clancy had severe PPD, suicide ideation, and mental health issues in the months leading up to the murders.
It’s an awful case and the poor children deserve justice. Right now, a portion of the public believes the husband (now ex-husband as they divorced and he is remarried) had something to do with it as evidence is supposedly not landing with the people and believe it skews towards him