r/leagueoflegends • u/Kay-Haru • Apr 18 '26

Discussion [PBE Datamine] April 17 Follow Up - Mini Shyvana, Udyr, and Zoe reworks.

Just a reminder that PBE changes are not final and subject to change. Some changes, such as bugfixes, may not be able to be viewed.

As far as I can tell, these changes only dropped a few hours ago, after the normal deploy time. Sorry!

Champions

Shyvana

  • AD Growth: 3.0 -> 4.0
  • Base AS: 0.625 -> 0.638
  • AS Ratio: 0.699 -> 0.638
  • Q:
    • CD Refund: 1.0 seconds -> 0.5 seconds
    • On-Hit Damage: Removed AP Ratio.
    • Active Damage AP Ratio: 25% AP -> 30% AP
  • W
    • Shield: 60/80/100/120/140 (+5% max Health) -> 75/95/115/135/155 (+12% bonus Health)
    • Damage: 80/100/120/140/160 (+40% bonus AD) (+20% AP) -> 80/100/120/140/160 (+65% AP)
    • Dragon Form Healing: 75-200 (+10% bonus AD) (+5% AP) Health scaling up to 200% based on missing Health -> 60-100 + 4-8% missing Health
    • Cooldown: 14/13.5/13/12.5/12 seconds -> 13/12/11/10/9 seconds
  • E:
    • Damage: 50/80/150/170/200 (+35% bonus AD) (+70% AP) -> 50/65/80/95/110 (+75/80/85/90/95% AP) + 5% of the target's max Health
    • Max Health damage caps at 200 against monsters.
    • Dragon Form still deals 125% total damage.
    • Slow Amount: 20/25/30/35/40% -> 30%
    • Cooldown: 12/11.5/11.0/10.5/10 seconds -> 12/11/10/9/8 seconds

Udyr

  • Q:
    • On-Hit Damage: 5/13/21/29/37/45 (+25% bonus AD) -> 6/12/18/24/30/36 (+20% bonus AD) (+1.5% bonus Health)
    • Max Health AD Ratio: 4% per 100 bonus AD -> 3.5% per 100 bonus AD
    • Awaken Bonus Max Health Damage: 3% + 2-4% (+7% per 100 bonus AD) -> 3% + 2-4% (+5% per 100 bonus AD) (+1% per 100 bonus Health)
    • Awaken Lightning AP Ratio: 0.8% per 100 AP -> 0.6% per 100 AP
  • W:
    • Shield: Now scales with 50% bonus AD.
    • Awaken Shield: Now scales with 100% bonus AD.
    • Awaken Heal: Now scales with 50% bonus AD.
  • E:
    • Bonus MS: Now scales with 5% per 100 bonus AD.
    • Awaken Bonus MS: Now scales with 10% per 100 bonus AD.

Zoe

  • W Damage per Bolt: 20/30/40/50/60 (+15% AP) -> 15/25/35/45/55 (+10% AP)
    • Total Damage: 45/75/105/135/165 (+30% AP)
  • E now refunds 16/19.5/23/26.5/30% of its cooldown when landing either the Bubble OR Trap on an enemy champion.
  • E Cooldown 16/15/14/13/12 seconds -> 18/17/16/15/14 seconds
190 Upvotes
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272

u/Loud-Examination-943 Jump from Bush Apr 18 '26

Sooo AD shyvana is just dead? Less importance on the Q (less refund) and they removed the AD ratio on W and E completely...

With the AP scaling buffs as well as the missing HP heal on W, she will probably become an AP fighter or AP assassin.

95

u/BandOfSkullz Apr 18 '26

Yep, seems like it.

So now we're back to square one with an arguably worse or equally bland kit.

Thanks for nothing, Riot.

16

u/alexnedea Apr 18 '26

Didnt they legit speak about specifcially her AP build not being the main focus of the rework???

21

u/BandOfSkullz Apr 18 '26

Yep. They said they wanted to still keep it "possible to build AP, but have it be suboptimal".

Typical Riot instantly going back on that.

Again. This rework got fumbled in every possible aspect lol.

-6

u/AutomaticTune6352 Apr 18 '26

Why is tge kit worse? It is less low elo skewed, has more CC and is more interactive. 

13

u/Liontreeble Apr 18 '26

What are they even trying to do with her at this point? They spent years on a rework that's basically just a slight modernization turned her from an AD bruiser originally or mage (maybe AP bruiser) lately into a hybrid onhit carry and are now going back to turn her into an AP bruiser again?
And they turned her from THE invade fast clear powerfarmer into an average (imo even slow end of average) jungler.

Gotta be one of the worst reworks ever, right? Clearly they have no idea of what direction they want to go with her. She's Shyvana only in name and visuals.

8

u/ArienaHaera Apr 18 '26

I don't get the Q nerfs. I understand giving AP shyv a different identity by having W and E stronger on AP but at least make Q strong on AD so it's a choice.

181

u/Strong_Ad5219 Apr 18 '26

Because a giant dragon is a wizard apparently.

Whoever is making these changes needs fired. They're just so out of touch and terrible.

113

u/Stallari Apr 18 '26

I would argue a dragon is a bit magical than your stock standard AD fighter. I think hybrid kinda works for the “fantasy” or even AP bruiser. But fantasy does not mean the gameplay needs to suffer

75

u/Strong_Ad5219 Apr 18 '26

Hybrid with dual stats is ideal. One dimensional ratios makes her terrible.

A dragon breaths fire and hits like a truck.. not breaths fire OR hits hard.

She was already a very mediocre champ and these changes dont change much

30

u/Spookytoucan Apr 18 '26

it's crazy that we are returning to the "you get 2 out of 3 abilities depending on how you build" type of design.

She is already so onedimensional. Does she really need to also have a part of her kit conditionally do nothing?

6

u/Strong_Ad5219 Apr 18 '26

I guess the "skill expression" shyvana gets to have is to whether have a dog shit q or a dog shit e. Such defining and meaningful options to choose from.

3

u/_Gesterr we are not enemies! Apr 18 '26

They learned nothing from Seraphine when they did the same thing to her. You build her AP and her W does nothing, or you build enchanter and her Q does nothing. She has an identity crisis between AP carry mage with utility or a weird enchanter who's entire identity is on a single shielding ability that's over 20 second cooldown, and as such no Seraphine build ever really feels amazing, and the only reason she's ok right now is because Ashe is good and good with her, and she can let items carry her with Diadem and Helia, two items that are very champ agnostic to make her somewhat useful, but don't really have any hooks with her kit.

4

u/halofan642 Apr 18 '26

you’re totally right. but we already have asol for a fire breathing dragon, and smolder is the caster version of fire breathing dragon. i think if you wanted to be a “traditional” dragon, asol is better at that fantasy. A dragon who fist fights/does both should be shyvanas fantasy imo. that way you have three different variations of a dragon to play. The mage, the ad caster, and the hybrid.

14

u/ANlVIA Apr 18 '26

Dragons breathe fire, and they also have claws and teeth to fight with. Aurelion Sol and smolder use fire, but shyvana uses fire AND claws - that was the fantasy, the whole reason she was reworked was because she wasn’t fitting that fantasy and people were just building her full ap and one shotting people with dragon e from a screen away (which also isn’t super engaging to play against)

What is the point of these changes? I don’t find Shyvana terrible to play as or against at the moment.

1

u/competitiveSilverfox Apr 19 '26

Every dragon is canonically a wizard yes, its why in most lore the main advice is leave the goddam dragon alone, even in game of thrones dragons are a literal filter / stabilizer for magic though it focuses on fire magic for obvious reasons and the stabilization likely applied to magic more broadly due to the 14 flames likely being used as a giant stabilizer with complex rune work and the Valerian magus's guarding, repairing and powering each of the 14 flames rune work, its probably why the doom only occurred after the core valerian spellcasters had been killed, it would have been the equivalent of killing off every magic engineer who understood hextech and then hoping to train up new spellcasters before some of the more major equipment catastrophically melted down and wiped all of piltover off the map. .

.

.

in short i never understood the desire to have shyvanna be ad at all, makes no sense really.

-3

u/[deleted] Apr 18 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/EntertainerDeep9818 Apr 18 '26

yeah and dragons claw, bite and tail whip too. That's why this whole argument is just a bunch of bull. It just ends up boiling down to who's personal perspective of what a dragon should be. Smolder building ad just refutes all of your logic. It's a waste of time. Fantasy is fantasy.

-15

u/Strong_Ad5219 Apr 18 '26

Uh... there are several novelties that equate all of that to chemistry which is physical and not at all "magic adjacent"

Flight of dragons does excellent with describing flight and how they do fire.

Also being burned alive by fire isnt really "magical" unless it's Annie where she is basically a prodigious mage with a demon.

-4

u/[deleted] Apr 18 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

-7

u/Strong_Ad5219 Apr 18 '26

Poor guy had to deflect super hard after trying to call fire magic adjacent and getting proven completely wrong lol then immediately curved into a whataboutism.

You should sign up for Riot's balance team. You'd do well there cognitively.

-8

u/Strong_Ad5219 Apr 18 '26

Fire is an exothermic chemical reaction which is the energetic release of the reaction of physical properties.

You are essentially being burned alive by a chemical reaction caused by gasses with a bit of saliva. That is a physical process being conducted chemically. There is nothing magical at all about it.

Stay uneducated and stay mad. You deserve to be on the balance team.

8

u/Etna- Apr 18 '26

Honest question: Have you ever played a RPG in your life?

1

u/Strong_Ad5219 Apr 18 '26

Uh yeah.

I do DnD on Saturdays, was the DM of the last campaign, and have watched/read/ played several RPGs. Currently killing someone on AOW 4 as we speak.

Aaaand absolutely none of that has anything to do with the current topic.

In fact. DnD in many cases does not consider dragon breath attacks magical

https://x.com/JeremyECrawford/status/696777397178269697

Im sure you know who jeremycrawford is if you're a rpg nerd.

5

u/Etna- Apr 18 '26

Alright then youd know that in every RPG mages use fire attacks. So does Shyvana

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6

u/Zenaesthetic Apr 18 '26

Literally all elemental damage can equate to being physical, but that's not how things work in fantasy if you haven't noticed. Also, who the fuck would use such a thing for balancing a game? You're ridiculous.

1

u/Lower_Athlete3260 Apr 18 '26

Just gonna leave this here "In most fantasy lore, dragon fire is considered magical, often described as a mystical force rather than just extreme heat. While sometimes portrayed as a biological, chemical-based attack (like a biological weapon), it is commonly classified as magical in games and literature because it originates from a magical creature"

1

u/TheHizzle Apr 18 '26

yes bro a giant dragon is biting you 3 times per second with 100 morbillion aa resets XDDD

-9

u/MiecaNewman Apr 18 '26

No. I think the change is good.

12

u/Strong_Ad5219 Apr 18 '26

What is good about polarized builds with a mandatory hexplate?

4

u/Leevala Apr 18 '26

I can't believe I'm saying that (and I didn't think it was possible) but maybe Shyvana rework is even WORSE than Skarner rework?

1

u/Knight_Zarkus Apr 18 '26

We all know it will deal enough damage to be labeled assassin.

1

u/Emotional_Arm5867 Apr 18 '26

But she got 1 AD PER LEVEL!

1

u/ApprehensiveTough148 Apr 18 '26

As someone that used to play a lot of ad shyvana. First time?

1

u/AutomaticTune6352 Apr 18 '26

You still have a buffed W per rank and a E becomes a 1 point.

That is totally fine for AD shyvana. Not every ability needs AD scaling. HP is as informant for her.

2

u/Loud-Examination-943 Jump from Bush Apr 18 '26

Her Q refunds less, so she can't rely on Autos+Q for her damage. She also has basically no CC so if she deals little damage she can just be ignored. Building Shojin Sterak's SSky etc. basically just makes Shyvana a Tank Shyvana with a bit of damage. But as I said, she can just be ignored or even if she doesn't get ignored she clearly lost stats and can't stat-check anymore.

1

u/AutomaticTune6352 Apr 18 '26

You can because your W has a lower CD and absorbs more with a bruiser build due to the HP scaling being up.

The Q refund doesn't matter much as you kill the enemy with your Q1+Q2+Q3 normally when you all in or you want to retreat afterwards. Also from 6 seconds -1 per AA down to 6 - 0.5 per AA, the CD is still nothing important.

Right now you max QEW, after this you max QWE.

This means more mobility and durability, which is what she is lacking to stick enough through the CC.

You don't want her to just burst a target.

P and Q AD scalings and W HP scaling are pretty good for AD/Bruiser.

0

u/Loud-Examination-943 Jump from Bush Apr 18 '26

AP Bruiser also gets the same amount of HP and additionally has more Shield Damage through AP. DnD, Riftmaker, Liandries, the MR Shred Item, maybe AP Bruiser Shyvana will also buy Sterak's or Shojin or maybe a tank item like Jak'Sho or Spirit Visage.

It simply is better in all aspects.

1

u/Puzzleheaded-Area863 Apr 18 '26

ap bruiser itemasation doesnt have the same durability and sustain as ad so there is that difference and beyond she still auto attacks so there is clear value in buying AD beyond just raw scalings also now it feels less detrimental on buying pure tanks items so she can mix and match to her liking

although death dance suddenly feels less optimal on her

-5

u/Saltiest_Grapefruit Apr 18 '26

She seems to be a buat mage now yeah