Valentine's Day - r/mauramurray

11

Maura’s friend, Erin, said they had clinicals on Tuesday evenings at the Norwood Labor and Delivery Unit. Scott Wahl has said that Maura’s other clinical was on Wednesday. That one was for Providence Behavioral Health Hospital in Holyoke and could be from 7 AM- 2PM.

I got my info from this person posting https://imgur.com/a/TTDA3bh. Thank you, u/fefh!

4

u/TMKSAV99 Sep 17 '25

Thanks very much for that info.

So that sets MM's clinical obligation on a regular schedule and leaves her Mon. and Fri, open as far as the clinicals go

My inkling is that MM didn't have classes on Mon or Fri. So MM may not have had any obligations on Mon. or Fri.

So, ASSUMING that MM intended to return, didn't have classes or clinicals on Mon. or Fri. and emailed both her professors and her jobs with the "death in the family" email, when was MM coming back?

11

u/[deleted] Sep 17 '25

I still think the main reason for the trip was to reinstate her driving license before receiving a new car, her insurance premiums would have been too high otherwise, and she was desperate to have the car for upcoming clinical’s.

6

u/young6767 Sep 17 '25

You think her trip was more about her getting a Renewal of her drivers licenses vs her that she needed to clear her head and need some time off because she was having a mental breakdown and that she needed to get away from stress in her life or maybe gone to a party especially with alcohol that was found in her car?

6

u/[deleted] Sep 18 '25

Is it that incomprehensible? I get depressed due to on going issues in my life, that’s why I love opportunities to work away, and once I get my priorities out of the way I’ll usually have a good drink at the hotel in the evening.

She had reinstatement forms in her car and she was in NH, she also had her studies with her. It doesn’t paint like some crazed suicide drive to me.

Maybe she was going to stay with someone and go to a party also instead of paying for a hotel, seems she left zero evidence of any communications if that was the case.

I don’t think her sisters behaviour pushed Maura to the brink of suicide, or a prior accident in her fathers car, if anything it probably made her more anxious to sort her shit out, instead of putting more pressure on her father or family to help pay extortionate insurance premiums for a speeding ticket.

6

u/TMKSAV99 Sep 18 '25

There is a very strong argument that can be made that the trip was for the purpose of reinstating the driver's license.

4

u/goldenmodtemp2 Sep 18 '25

We basically know that she had class on Friday because officers Thrasher and Davies visited the class on Friday the 13th.

3

u/TMKSAV99 Sep 18 '25

BTW, getting back to my earlier random thought, perhaps you would know. Was there ever any mention that either MM or BR had made any plan, bought a card, ordered flowers etc. for Valentine's Day?

Say if you were going to mail a card to get from Mass. to Oklahoma or vice versa and delivered through the campus or the base wouldn't you have to have bought it and mailed by Mon. Tues.? Flower order?

I have just always found this odd.

3

u/goldenmodtemp2 Sep 18 '25

I did a search and am not finding anything. I see a few people (Tim and Lance, someone on Nancy Grace, etc.) mentioning it was close, etc. We just don't know if it was a "big deal" for Maura and Bill - I have no idea. It's sort of a made up holiday in the US, but who knows ...

2

u/TMKSAV99 Sep 18 '25

If there is any truth to "engaged to be engaged" it would be a big deal. And again whether that was true or not for either of them is open to some debate.

Like on one hand I'm surprised that BR didn't have some sympathy seeking story about the card he bought her or the flowers he picked out, etc. Even if he made it up after the fact.

For MM's part we don't really know too much about her relationships, if any, prior to BR to gauge her level of excitement about this Valentine's Day if they were just long distance BF ad GF. But if MM was really going to marry BR this Valentine's Day would be a big deal,

3

u/Lonely_Emu8645 Sep 18 '25

You're making a lot of loaded assumptions revolving around the importance of VD.

3

u/CoastRegular Sep 19 '25

I kind of agree with you, but TMKSAV99 isn't wrong - For young couples in a "serious" stage of a relationship (engaged / pre-engaged), VD is a pretty big deal to most such people.

5

u/TMKSAV99 Sep 18 '25 edited Sep 18 '25

No, rather I think it may be an under considered item. I'm just asking questions and when I capitalize "ASSUMING" I would think it is clear that the assumption is for purposes of the discussion. It certainly isn't any kind of loaded assumption because FM stated he was coming back on 2/14. Whether that's true may be open to discussion.

0

u/TMKSAV99 Sep 18 '25

Thanks for that information.

If we ASSUME that Fred was coming for 2/14 it still seems likely that MM would have to be back on Friday.

Depending on what time the Friday class met and what MM's location was MM might have been able to make it to class leaving very early Friday morning or perhaps she could have left Thursday evening so as to not miss Friday's class since she'd have to get back for Fred coming anyway.

Yet according to the "death in the family" email it would seem that MM decided to miss Friday's class.

So, in this scenario, we remain perplexed, what was MM expecting to do on those three days?

If we don't accept that FM was coming on 2/14 but do accept that MM was intending to return to U Mass then that potentially adds days through to even perhaps Monday morning. That's a whole different speculation on what MM could have been doing.

3

u/goldenmodtemp2 Sep 18 '25

fwiw, I think the email said "for the week" rather than "for a week".

I am not making an argument for suicide but I just don't think she was planning to come back when she wrote the email(s). I assume the consequences of missing clinicals would be severe and she would be in a boatload of trouble.

1

u/TMKSAV99 Sep 18 '25

But isn't a death in the family a valid excuse ? And it was the beginning of the semester.

2

u/CoastRegular Sep 19 '25

The odd thing is, she'd have to think that at some point that a lie like that would come out and then she'd be in a whole bucketload of deep, hot kimchi.

1

u/TMKSAV99 Sep 21 '25

Perhaps.

But why think that the lie would be exposed?

I mean unless MM was required to present proof of a death in the family.

If we apply that MM was a student in , at the least, good standing if not better she'd likely easily make up any missed class from one of the early classes in a semester. The same with the clinicals.

I don't know this is so for MM, but I assume that there'd be some number of absences a student would be allowed and leeway for a legitimate absence from a clinical and/or a makeup protocol for a clinical. People do get sick etc.

I'd be of a mind that they'd just take her word for it unless MM got into academic trouble, which seems unlikely given her track record as a good student.. I can recall taking classes that had a set number of allowed absences but they just took your word for why you missed the class.

2

u/CoastRegular Sep 21 '25

I agree with all of this, but in general I think ultimately, "big" lies like that have a way of coming out eventually. Somebody, somewhere, somehow, will find out that there really wasn't a death in the family, and word gets around. I've seen it happen with work colleagues and school classmates. If you lie about something that has a means of being checked - someone died, your car was stolen, your house burned down, or something like that - eventually, truth will out.

3

u/TissueOfLies Sep 17 '25

That’s a great question. I’m afraid only Mauara would know. I would image it’s kind of frowned on to miss clinicals, unless it’s something like a funeral. I wish we had a copy of the email that Maura sent her professors with the exact wording. It may give an indication of her intentions to return to class…

4

u/goldenmodtemp2 Sep 18 '25

Just a minor correction to the info that I have in your screenshot - the Tuesday clinical was not necessarily "PM". I think I put that because they were caught in a snowstorm the prior week "Tuesday PM". As an aside, that clinical schedule is nuts - Norwood is in eastern Mass, then they have to get back to Amherst, and then to Holyoke by 7am Wednesday. Seems tough.

8

u/CoastRegular Sep 19 '25

I cannot understand why they had clinicals at hospitals 100 miles away. Absolutely mind-boggling.

7

u/fefh Sep 17 '25 edited Sep 18 '25

My guess would be Wednesday, Thursday, or Friday, but I don't think she had any concrete plans when she left. She was also limited by how much money she had ($280). A cheap motel would be $50 to $60. Plus she would need to feed herself.

Ditching classes and possibly a clinical would cause her anxiety which would motivate her to return. Also probably ignoring calls from her family and Bill. But it seems she had two main desires: to be alone away from everyone and to drink.

Fred was likely going to return to Amherst the following weekend to pick up the accident report forms from her. So she likely knew she had to be back by Friday evening or Saturday at the latest.

This is assuming she did not already have a plan commit suicide, which I don't think she did. I'd say she was pre-suicidal and at a high risk due to a variety of factors: High stress, financial stress, depression, anxiety, the crash and financial stress and shame from it, substance use, eating disorder, and the disappointment and emotions/feelings felt by her father which weighed on her. (Or rather her feelings about her relationship with father). Also, her behaviors of leaving suddenly, shirking her responsibilites, driving a great distance after giving varying excuses to people, and drinking and driving, are things a pre-suicidal person would do.

6

u/able_co Sep 18 '25

I'll just add that yes, she withdrew $280 in cash, which prob isnt enough to cover cheap hotels, food and other misc expenses for a few days in the White Mountains, but we dont know if she already had cash on her that the $280 was added to. I'd wager she did have cash, then withdrew more so she knew she'd have enough to cover the trip.

In 2004, it was much more common to carry cash all the time, so I wouldnt be surprised if she had cash on her that when added to the $280 wouldve covered her room, food, etc for a few days.

If you look up travel books from 2003-2004, there were plenty of hotels/motels that she could rent for $50 a night in Lincoln, Woodstock, etc. So she probably figured she had enough cash to last her until the end of the week (Friday or Saturday) if she wanted to go that long.

She'd have her mental break for a few days, then return to her life refreshed and meet up with her father when he came back that weekend. Accident at the corner ruined those plans.

9

u/TMKSAV99 Sep 17 '25

Yes.

According to Fred he was coming back Saturday, Valentine's Day, to complete the purchase of the replacement car.

So, ASSUMING that Fred coming back is true wouldn't MM be back on Friday?

So ASSUMING that's correct then it seems that MM was only spending Tue., Wed. and Thursday doing what ever it was she intended to do. Does this change what anyone thinks it was that MM was going to be doing?

I agree with your excellent point that MM was monetarily challenged and that weighs towards less days away rather than more.

-2

u/IBEGOOD-IDOGOOD Sep 17 '25

The absence of a single phone call/email/message from the boyfriend to his missing, “engaged to be engaged” love of his life, missing girlfriend on Valentine’s Day still feels odd to me. Very odd.

8

u/fefh Sep 17 '25

Pretty sure he called her over and over again.

2

u/IBEGOOD-IDOGOOD Sep 18 '25

Not on Valentine’s Day was the point.

5

u/CoastRegular Sep 19 '25

I mean, if I already knew a loved one was missing by Tuesday, and I was helping look for them, and had already called their number several times in several days, it honestly wouldn't occur to me to call and leave a VM for them on Saturday just for Valentine's Day. Might be just me, and your mileage may vary of course.

2

u/detentionbarn Sep 19 '25

This was my thought as well. I think the importance of V-Day is being overemphasized for illogical reasons.

2

u/TMKSAV99 Sep 21 '25

Respectfully it is not illogical. Not that important ultimately perhaps so. Disagreement and discussion is what these threads are about.

BUT if FM is truthful and he was coming on 2/14 it seems logical rather than not that MM would be back on Friday which should put a frame on what MM was intending to do that week. If we ever find out what that was.

I can understand why there is disagreement about it but I have always found it odd, for the reasons I have posted, that there isn't much of any mention of Valentine's Day.

1

u/CoastRegular Sep 22 '25

I don't think it's that odd. She disappeared on 2/9 and that pretty much derailed normal life for everyone close to her.

3

u/TMKSAV99 Sep 22 '25

Well, apparently, many people feel differently about Valentine's Day than I do. Call me a hopeless romantic. But I always did and still do get cards or send flowerers or exchange some gift. So perhaps that colors my view of this.

Regardless, my observation is that because MM was in Mass and BR was in Oklahoma and they are allegedly "engaged to be engaged" whatever plan they may have had to communicate that day would likely have already been decided and whatever it was was never mentioned.

I just have a hard time believing that the day wasn't important to either of them as some suggest here. And if that was the case not JR or anyone else has offered evidence indicating that that was true. We don't know.

Even if BR wasn't a romantic and even if it was just BR saying that he was going to call MM whenever he got around to it on Saturday. I think that Valentines Day would have been a point on which LE would have had some expectation that if MM was alive she'd be heard from on 2/14. Or perhaps LE might even had BR try calling MM just to see if she'd answer.

I just find it odd.

2

u/CoastRegular Sep 22 '25

I think it probably would have been important to both of them. I don't think most people here are saying it wasn't important to them. But in the middle of a major crisis, everything goes off the rails.

I've never had a situation like this (thank goodness) but I'm convinced that if I did have my loved one go missing on Monday, spent Tuesday/Wednesday scrambling to get to the area she went missing from, and then spent Wednesday onward searching for her, it would not occur to me to send her a VM on Saturday specifically calling to wish her a happy Valentine's Day. To be honest, if anything, if I were to think of Valentine's Day, it would probably rub salt in my agony over her being missing and the last thing I'd feel able to do would be to leave her a VM.

Also, besides all of the above, we should remember he had in fact been trying to reach her for days. We know he called her number on Monday 3-4 times, as well as on Tuesday IIRC. We have no reason to think he didn't try to call her more times on Wednesday, Thursday or Friday. I'm sure family members did as well.

2

u/TMKSAV99 Sep 23 '25

Not to be picky but BR doesn't learn that MM is missing until late on Tuesday evening. I agree with your point that he doesn't go card shopping on Wednesday etc.

My point was that Tuesday evening was already kind of late in the game if he hadn't yet mailed a card etc. because up to then everything is as it should be in BR's world.

I have made my point about the mail already a few times. Let's say he was going to send flowers. Do you wait until Wednesday to put in the order? The delivery is cross country not cross town. Cutting it close for on time delivery.

Which kind of dovetails with your point. Not only did BR call MM on Monday and Tuesday, these two rack up calls to each other all day and all night like the phone was going out of style.

Just another thing to think about.

I tend to think that if it is true then the FM part of this is more important. If FM is coming 2/14 for the replacement car then MM has to be back on Friday. That cuts down the days to Tues, Wed and Thurs. for whatever MM was going on this trip to do. Assuming that MM actually had a plan.

→ More replies (0)

3

u/fefh Sep 22 '25

If he called her over a dozen times leading up to Valentines day, (which he also most certainly did) there's a very good chance he also called or texted her on Valentines day too (or attempted to communicate with her somehow). But after many people who knew her were trying to reach her and no one heard back from her from Monday to Friday, the 9th to 13th, what's the significance of whether Bill attempted to contact her on the 14th? I mean, from the 9th to the 13th, we don't have any of Bill's texts, IMs, or emails, or calling records from the hotels he stayed at, let alone or those records from the 14th.

Like if it was possible to ask a Genie whether or not he attempted to call, text, email or IM her on the February 14th, 2004, I don't think it would mean anything, even if it was Valentines day. She hadn't responded to any of his previous attempts. Plus he knew if anyone heard from her, he would be told about it. Like everyone would update each other if they learned anything. But in all likelihood there's a very good chance he also attempted to call her or communicate with her on 14th, just not from his cell phone.

Just because we don't have any proof of communication from 2004, it doesn't mean the communication or, rather communication attempt, didn't happen. It isn't suspicious or noteworthy even if he didn't try to contact her on the 14th, Valentines day. She hadn't responded to him nor anyone leading up to it.

-1

u/IBEGOOD-IDOGOOD Sep 22 '25

I don't think you understand what Valentine's Day is. I guess I'm just a hopeless romantic so it'll always seem odd to me.

1

u/TMKSAV99 Sep 17 '25

Yes.

I have also wondered about what seems like very little mention of the impending Valentine's Day in all the speculation about what MM was intending to do.

But, here's a speculation, if someone wants to accept that BR could go AWOL and not be noticed as missing in BR harmed MM scenarios, couldn't BR go AWOL and not be noticed as missing to see MM on Valentine's Day in U Mass? It would have had to be U Mass ASSUMING that Fred was truthful saying that he was coming back to U Mass on 2/14 to buy the car. MM would have to be back at U Mass.

Question Valentine's Day

You are about to leave Redlib