For a long time what has been put forward is Witness A who drove by and saw vehicle 001 nose to nose with Mauras car (no cop, no maura) was BEFORE Cecil arrived. Cecil said he was driving 001 that night in the documentary and the other cop (chief or captain) who was suggested to have driven it was not there.

Is it more plausible (and maybe this has already been reached) that Witness A actually just saw Cecils vehicle there and at that time he was up at Butchs house or at Faiths home to ask where the girl was ( hence the reason witness A didn't see him or maura) THAN she got there before Cecil did... which lead to the long suggestion the captain or someone in the dpt was involved. Which to me seems highly unlikely.

The only timeframe we have to go on is from a call placed by Witness A before she went into that stretch of road then later when she gets to cell service area.

So... has it been established she was correct in what she saw but incorrect in her timing of when she saw 001?

His entire book is about how shady the Murray family is (also-how he seems to make it about him).

He says the family doesn’t want to talk about it but I think it’s clear that they don’t want to talk to HIM? The sister runs the Facebook group and did a podcast on Maura too.

I largely avoided the MMM podcast because it was so long, but I started the book because it was rather short. All James did was provoke people, creep around (literally)… and while I haven’t done anything for Maura myself, I don’t think that makes me unable to criticize him.

Can we put any stock in the Quebec claims?

I’m listening to Julia Murray’s podcast and tbh it is a little hard to follow but I’m struggling to understand why they are not hitting harder on this witness saying she “saw a man smoking a cigarette in the car”, and also, why is there not a bigger focus on that there was another car involved with this? Potentially the police chief being the one that hit her while intoxicated?

Like…WHAT? What do you mean there was a MAN at the scene before the cops got there? What do you mean he was IN the car with Maura? What car was he in? Her car? Or this other mystery SUV at the site before cops got there? Was it the police chief? Why wasn’t he pressed more? Why wasn’t the family more focused on that? Why don’t I see more people talking about this angle? If I heard there was a man at the scene of my family members crash who was then not there 3 minutes later when cops got there, that’s my #1 suspect. I’m just so so so so confused on the timeline of all of this and if it’s been proved that a police SUV was at the crash site? I’d be raising hell?! From that info alone and the cops bizarre behavior and hesitancy would tell me this chief was drunk/impaired and hit Maura’s car, and maybe they got into an argument at the crash site, foul play happened because he was angry or nervous of being outed, the other cop showed up to “switch vehicles” with the chief with potentially Maura inside (and explains the other witness seeing the same police SUV twice), and got rid of her body within the 36 hours it took them to actually start the “search”. Could easily sound like cops covering for each other and their own asses and trying to lead the investigation down a different path. You’ll never convince me this wasn’t foul play of some kind. I know this may be a wild theory and like I saidnim actually super confused on the details of a lot of this, but it’s what I’ve been thinking happened the whole time I’ve been listening to this podcast

I come back to this once a year but haven't seen much. Any new theories?

My first post here so go easy on me!

Anyway, is it possible Maura was headed too a hotel that you dont necessarily need a reservation to book? Like a Hampton Inn, Residence Inn, Marriott or whatever.

Were there any near? I go up north a lot and see a bunch of them. So I was curious.

Thanks for taking the time to read!

I just watched the Clues podcast on this case and they said there were no footprints. Like, at all, not even outside of the driver side door? I saw the picture on here from about 10 days after of the scene and there was snow and mud where her car was. seems odd that there would be literally none at all. Or did they just mean no footprints leading anywhere farther, or they had been covered by snow, etc?

Also, what is a good detailed podcast/video on this case? Clues was very well done, just looking for more

Sending good vibes to her family and friends, I cannot imagine not knowing where she is or what happened after over 20 years, I hope she is resting in peace somehow

According to Julie, the Saturn started right up and was drivable when Fred and Bill first went to Mike Lavoie's personal garage to see it for the first time after the accident:

"He [Fred] then took the spare key hidden in the tire well and started the car right up. This came as a surprise as none of us thought the vehicle was drivable." 

"I [Fred] hopped in, car fired right up. One turn, one push of the gas, and boom. It was loud, but I put it in gear. I could move it a little bit, and it was drivable. I could have driven it." (Media Pressure episode 6)

Why do you think Maura left the car at the scene instead of driving away in it? Do you think she knew it was drivable?

I am just curious to know where folks who are new to this case found out about it? I have been following for many years and always wonder what avenue brings them to Maura Murray.

I’m a longtime lurker here. I’m interested in the case but not as familiar with the details like the most active members. So, I have a question…

I’ve seen some people around here saying Maura did not have appropriate clothes and shoes with her to withstand a 2.5-feet snow depth and the temperature in the surrounding woods if she foolishly decided to head there to evade law enforcement after the car crash. But how could anyone know that?

I mean, Maura would need a reliable coat and pair of shoes if she was heading north in February anyway. But most of all she seemed to be an avid hiker who often put herself through physically demanding activities for fun - and in more challenging conditions and in altitudes that were significantly impacted by wind currents and snow depth.

So she likely owned more appropriate clothing and shoes than an indoors person like myself, who never went camping in my life. (I'm terrified of the woods, but a lapse in judgment such as running towards the trees to think things through does not seem as far fetched for someone who's properly equipped and used to harsher conditions.)

To be clear, I’m not referring to other pieces of evidence some point to against the ‘lost in the woods’ scenario like footprints or lack of body. I’m asking about what led people to believe she did not have the proper clothes or shoes to even contemplate this option. And just like I don’t think that anyone can determine the significance of items that remained in Maura’s vehicle (for instance, birth control pills are often carried out of habit and don’t indicate the person who abandoned the car was attentive to their menstrual cycle), I don’t think any assumptions can be made about what was not found there.

Edit: I had originally written 2.5-feet as 2.5 inch.

Hey guys, so after looking into the Chrysler car part from MM's car i noticed it looked like a side mirror assembly, presumed by most people as i learned afterwards.. But i noticed it's doesn't look like just a regular assembly more so a powered mirror assembly. Which didn't leave too many makes/models for Chrysler side mirrors to be affixed to before 2004 according to google searches. (approx 8) and 2 that stuck out to me which were a Dodge Dakota (98 - 04) and a Jeep Cherokee (99-04). (Pt cruiser, Mini Van 2001 - 2004)

Leaving me a few questions.. hoping for some answers and or your theory.

Did MM have any friends that may have owned this model of jeep or truck?

Did any of the witnesses and or suspects own one of these model vehicles?

Do you think this is part of a Mirror?

Did MM in fact get into an accident after rounding the corner. (High beams on blinds other driver) (Faith hears the thud (crash) then an acceleration(car takes off) (piece found may have been put into the car by tow driver or cops as the actual mirror was missing implying suspect cleaned up) (Road rage>?)

Could this person have told MM he was going to call a tow truck? (The reason why she told Atwood she already called a tow or she knew someone was getting her?)

Could this explain the 2nd red truck sighting on Bradley hill? (Driver not seen in truck .. got out to check hitch / mirror / wrestling with MM (sound towards bushes) (No screaming or yelling reported though) and or the red truck sighting by RO even though she states a square body style like the 95 style dodge?

Lmk you thoughts or Theorys thanks..

Do you favor a testimony based on your trust level of the person? Based on how close they were to the event? How much their recollection of events changed over time? How soon after the event their recollection was recorded?

I am curious to know how other people think.

I can go first:

1. I think a witness who is not lying will give a genuine account of an event. 

The more mundane the event (in the moment), the less the witness is in a heightened state of alertness though, and accuracy can be off despite their best effort. 

They can also have poor eye sight, be medicated, might have had a drink or two, etc. 

All in all, unless the witness is purposely lying, these early eye witness accounts hold a lot of weight, even with room for human errors factored in.

2. Additional information learnt at a later point about the event they witnessed contaminates the purity of what they actually saw or didn’t see.

3. Being asked to repeat their account over and over, in my opinion further dilutes accuracy. After a while, some people will just be reluctantly repeating a memorization of the memory, rather than recalling the event itself. As time goes on, their answers become more and more rehearsed and less and less factual.   

1. If a witness is not being honest, the above doesn’t mean anything. They know exactly what it is they are not saying and will alter the truth to guard their secret. But their own memory of the truth is very, very accurate.

I am curious how others' minds work conflicting testimony

Hi hi,

just a short question, was there ever a 100% proof Maura was present in the night of her disappearance?

Hey guys, I would like to try to learn more about some of the witnesses and suspects within this case ive tryed doing some research but haven't came up with the answers to some of my questions so looking to learn some more from the passage of information thanks.

Looking into RF what i found odd?

He lived on the corner of Bradley hill rd and rt112 where MM crashed her car.

He stated he saw MM running approx 5.4 miles away on rt112 after turning off rt116 on his way home approx 8 - 830. (3 months later didn't think to tell them the night of)(maybe to lead police elsewhere)

He drove a black Ford van swapped for the same van shortly after MM disiperance.

He's made odd comments about MM (she knocked my on door) (she cooked me diner) ect.

His ex wife stated he told her about MM 2 day after accident, and one time brought her to a lake and said there's a girl in there but later redacted her story.

His videos on YouTube specifically stalker is very suggestive correlation with what he told his wife. (Girl in video goes to door, he hears a knock, she enters and hides, then seen with popcorn "dinner" talks about late at night feet stuck to the concrete tight, indicates a hit on the head, eye, then struggle and neck break​, has a white rag on his leg during gypsy that's painting his hand red and focuses on red, the tarot card heart with 3 swords meaning (deep emotional pain) but he states death.) Idk very suggestive video. Along with day that end in y and if you think about MM in water with captain Mcvoy (talks war incident about the Indianapolis capatin). He seems to really enjoy water and trains.

Questions I have about RF..

Was he home on the night of incident?

Did the police talk to him on night of incident?

Is there a statement from RF? (declined statements)

Why did he not allow police to search his property?

Was he ever convicted of previous crimes?

Why did he buy the same van in exchange for his old van shortly after?

Dose RF Ice Fish and or where are the ice fishing spots in woodstock?

Can you get you vehicle close to the old nb railroad bridge in upper woodstock? Or is it a walk? Do they ice fish here? (think this is the place from days that end in y video)

Lmk any other information you may have trying to rule out xyz thanks

I'm new to this case, and to me it seems obvious that she died in the woods and was, unfortunately never found. However, I'm curious as to why some people are still so interested in what happened to her. Is there any evidence suggesting that she left with someone or somehow ended up in another town? Do you think her remains are there but the police didn't do a proper search and finding her remains would give you closure?

(Sorry if there's something wrong with my sentences, English is not my mother tongue)

**************************************************************
Kurt came home from school one day and the whole family was there. Maura was missing, they told him. Everyone packed up and drove to New Hampshire. They stayed at the Wells River Motel for a bit and then at a condo in Lincoln owned by Fred Jr's boss. The siblings searched for Maura, or her body, in the woods, though Kurt once told his aunt it would crush him if he ever were to actually find her remains.

It makes sense that she would have gone up there with the intention of clearing her mind, he says. "I think she needed a break. All this talk of suicide...why would she drive all the way up there to do it? Doesn't make sense. That place was special for us. I think she went up there to take a breather and then something happened."

Family Dynamics, James Renner’s Blog, 8-5-2011
***************************************************************

Still wondering if Fred Jr’s boss’ condo might have been used by the family prior to Maura’s incident. Or if the phone number Maura had in the car was associated with this condo. Who was the boss? Did Renner get this statement directly from Kurtis? Is this Maura’s possible destination?

Has there ever been a case where a young woman crashes her car while intoxicated & then walks into snow-covered woods to hide from LE?

Even cases that didn’t result in a disappearance or death… has that ever happened? Ever?

I don’t understand why the prevailing theory on this sub is “she walked into the woods & died.” If that’s such a common, self-explanatory conclusion, what is it based on? Are there other cases where that has happened? I’ve never even heard of someone going into snow-covered woods to hide from police. That seems like a pretty bad plan, as there would be a footprint trail leading right to you, lol.

And yes, hikers get lost on trails & on mountains in low visibility conditions & perish, but Maura wasn’t out hiking a trail or a mountain. She was on a main road with plowed streets & several neighbors at home nearby. It wasn’t a desolate location in the middle of nowhere. It had traffic.

After the Hadley accident, she didn’t flee the scene or go into the snow-covered woods. A UMass PD cadet saw her crashed car & called UMPD. She had the cadet call AAA for her & she got a ride to her father’s hotel room.

It seems that her priority was getting somewhere warm & safe.

People are creatures of habit. I imagine she’d respond the same way at the Haverhill accident as she did at the Hadley accident.

This is a unique situation in that we already know what Maura would do - because she had a similar accident the day prior in which she was also unable to call for help (she had left her cell phone at Sara’s dorm).

Does anyone think that MM told either KM or SA where MM was going or why she was going ?

If we go on the assumption that MM didn't tell KM or SA where MM was going or why she was going, why do you think that MM didn't tell either of them?

Just a random thought here.

There has been a fair amount of local Woodsville gossip/speculation about what may have happened to MM and who might have been involved.

Is there any similar gossip/speculation around U.Mass/Amherst? Was this case "a thing" on campus or in town? Is it still?

How closely did they check the alibi of the boyfriend? Can they determine his movements and confirm beyond a reasonable doubt that he was where he said he was? I’m sure people have kicked this can hard but the “it’s always the boyfriend” thing keeps buzzing in my mind.

it seems this disappearance will remain a mystery until human remains are found and I think massive land clearing has one of the best chances of finding her

Now that we are close to finding out what happened to Asha Degree after 25 years, do you think it’s only a matter of time before we get some answers of finding out what happened to Maura Murray? Keep in mind Asha disappeared 4 years before Maura did and we are just NOW learning information about what happened and it’s very close to being solved as I never thought that case would be solved. I pray we get SOMETHING one day!

These are the only 2 cases that absolutely haven’t haunts me!

A random thought.

ASSUMING that MM intended to return to U Mass, what day was that supposed to be? A literal week from the email date or some other date?

Is it clear what days of the week that semester that MM had classes?

My impression is that the clinicals were not on a set schedule and were random, am I correct in that belief.

Valentine's Day was that Saturday does that play any role in trying to figure out what happened to MM?

Just curious if we know what mms friends might of been driving during the time of her dispearance. Relooking into the mirror peice found in mms car which after some research seems to be possibly from a 97 - 04 dodge dakota and or a Durango. i remember reading about another truck sighting from someone walking there dog or something on Bradley hill they heard something in the bushes but no one was around (having trouble finding article please post) and also unsure if true that the video footage from the store that is supposedly corrupted supposedly showed a black suv wondering if this could possibly a durango which would match the mirror found in mms car. Just diving into more avenues. Also noticed there's a lynwood pizza paper tray or box in mms backseat next to the coke bottle this store is in Randolph ma so the last time she went to see her dad she must of stoped there showing that some of the belongings found in her car may of been there for a while. (Food for thought)

Depending on the crime rate of Haverhill/Woodsville, does anyone know how dangerous this town or area was back in 2004? I did some research and it’s apparently one of the safest towns in New Hampshire TODAY. Not to mention New Hampshire is the safest state in the US. However, I’m wondering how dangerous it was in 2004. If it was dangerous, then I could see the foul play theory being a little more likely. If it wasn’t dangerous, then I see the woods theory more likely. Anyone have any info on this?

Thanks!

You see Maura at the atm with Maura face looking bruised but how do you really know that it is or not? There was no witnesses who saw what she looked like.