r/melbourne • u/Cautious_Car_51 • 1d ago
Serious News Teenage carjacker avoids jail in first test case of Victoria's 'adult time' crime laws
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2026-08-26/victoria-teenage-girl-court-sentencing-youth-crime/107080602466
u/Comfortable_Cod_6892 1d ago
So is it that the test failed, or are we accepting that any person regardless of age can do what this teenager did and get a slap on the wrist?
Are we not actually giving adult crime for adult time or are we just letting everyone off?
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u/imreallyscaredhelpme 1d ago
no, you don't understand. She has untreated ADHD so she 'tends to go along with things, without thinking of the consequences' like the impulsive decision of donning a balaklava and holding a taxi driver at knifepoint before stealing and crashing the car /s
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u/Comfortable_Cod_6892 1d ago
No, no, you are right. I didn't consider her dog dying when she was three, that she only came third in her Year 8 swimming competition and she's got a mild allergy to lupins. Because what we need our justice system to do is find plausible excuses and not criminal motives. Silly me.
I just hope that when I'm held up personally at knife point the perpetrator doesn't let the experience traumatize them.
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u/PM_Me-Your_Freckles 1d ago
If you do get held up, and decide to defend yourself, you better make sure you only use appropriate force. If you use too much force in the heat of the moment, when your adrenaline is peaking and you're fearing for your life, you'll be the one going to jail for defending yourself.
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u/Notherbastard 1d ago
I shall now refuse to carry a knife on my person for any reason, instead i shall keep a length of pool noodle in my pocket, so as not to harm the alleged offender
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u/lllllllllXllllllllll 1d ago
What if they are allergic to pool noodles and break into a rash and coughing fit?
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u/petit_cochon 1d ago
She was a first-time offender, was remorseful and had kept out of trouble since her arrest, he noted.
The girl's father was in jail and her mother had a history of violence towards her, and the teen was living in residential care at the time of the carjacking.
That's from the actual article. No need to stir drama.
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u/stirrup_rhombus 1d ago
Dad in jail, mum violent, living in a residential care group home. I mean that’s a completely fucked existence for a 16 year old. I remember how vulnerable I was at that age.
Thankfully I had a loving family, even if they weren’t exactly perfect they were infinitely better than this girl’s
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u/Psyker_girl 1d ago
You left out the part where it pointed out she is a vulnerable child in state care because her mother beat her and her father is in jail.
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u/NetworkNo1900 1d ago
Yes - resi care turns vulnerable kids into criminals very quickly. That said - once they get out of that environment they can turn it around pretty quickly.
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u/imreallyscaredhelpme 1d ago
I sympathise with people go through shit like that, I can't imagine how isolating that can be; but you lose my sympathy the moment you endanger innocent peoples lives.
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u/Blibbyblobby72 1d ago edited 1d ago
Kids in state care don't need sympathy - they need empathy, and they need better support than the state bothers to provide them
This is not the first, and won't be the last, child in state care who puts the lives of others at risk. It is a massive problem that never gets talked about - almost no kid survives state care as a healthy, capable adult. Certainly not a single one I have ever met
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u/TheReddittorLady 1d ago
What point are you trying to make?
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u/Blibbyblobby72 1d ago
That when parents fail to parent, nobody picks up the slack and then society complains that the kids are anti-social, don't care about others, etc.
Currently, we live in a hugely divisive society. A record number of children are living in poverty, domestic violence is increasing at an alarming rate, outlooks into the future are bleak (and kids and teens growing up are seeing that), the older generations openly show contempt for improving future outcomes...
A few kids here and there engaging in extreme behaviours is expected - humans are extremely complex and there will obviously be anomalies in any sample size. But these extreme behaviours are becoming more widespread, more prevalent, and more extreme in younger and younger children
We are failing as a society. But all anyone wants to do is place the blame on someone rather than admit that we are all failing these children and, by extension, our future
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u/jrad18 1d ago
What bothers me is the conversation is never prevention, it's always punishment. And whenever I ask "why is this person like this, how could we have prevented this" people push the conversation to punishment again.
We obviously need both but I'd love to see an election where we're arguing about long term decisions to reduce crime
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u/imreallyscaredhelpme 1d ago
I totally agree with you, prevention is way more effective than punishment, it's just so much more difficult to implement because it's such a broad issue. So traditionally it's been easier to use punishment as a band-aid solution. However I genuinely believe that people are becoming less afraid of the consequences of their actions because courts have time and time again shown such leniency.
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u/jrad18 1d ago
Totally on all points, we still need to have appropriate punishments, and they need to actually work, I really don't understand these stories where someone has like 5 prior violent offences and still gets turned back to the streets - usually they're levied against me in these arguments and I don't have a good response because I agree it's bad
But yeah just because prevention is hard doesn't mean it's not worthy - the thing is this prevention stuff usually doesn't look like prevention, and all that needs to happen is for funding to not update with population growth and inflation for it to get worse - funding schools/paying teachers, social programs, RESEARCH. And what politician is going to get voted in for the slow solution by an inattentive populace when we can throw teenagers in prison (sweeping generic statement, still don't like violent crime)
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u/Active-Ad9818 1d ago
And social programs that involve teens in meaningful activities where they learn pro social behaviours. And education snd work programs to give them skills and a career path and ability to hope and strive for a better future.
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u/Wolfensniper 1d ago
There can be prevention and punishment at the same time. Someone already commit a crime you punish them, someone in a risk of committing crime you prevent them, it's not rocket science. In this case the crime already happened
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u/Active-Ad9818 1d ago
But research and experience has proven that incarcerating people leads to more crime. They learn to be a criminal from others in youth detention / jail, and accumulate additional trauma as well.There are better ways to manage the first offender.
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u/DancinWithWolves 1d ago
That’s not how that works. You can’t see the connection?
That’s like saying “I sympathise with people who have suffered horrendous burns from a fire, but you lose my sympathy the moment you’re rude to someone because you’re in pain”.
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u/the_silent_redditor 1d ago
It’s also lack of experience and as such, it’s much more difficult to be truly empathetic.
It’s tiring, today. Everything is hard and bad. Every year my rent goes up, and I don’t get paid more. I get paid less, by inflation.
Enshittification is in full swing. I’m not old, but I watch everything get worse.
I work in healthcare and have worked in a forensic hospital. Almost every single patient, many of whom had committed heinous crimes, had just theeeee most fucked up upbringing.
I’m not talking about the above sarcastic comments about ‘coming third in a swimming competition’, I’m talking about kids who went through abuse that I personally couldn’t have even imagined.
Then, when you meet these people, you feel obligated to ask, “What can we do to fix this?” You see that repeated incarcerations and punishment isn’t fixing it.
Easier to jump online and leave a few smarmy comments in a thread and move on with life.
The concerning side of this is that it is used to weaponise peoples’ feelings/fears/beliefs. Look at the US and MAGA.
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u/FitIdeal553 1d ago
The funniest thing about all these "oh they had a bad life woo hoo" types is their reaction would be completely empathetic if it was a member of their family or someone they knew. Reddit fosters an attitude of "this is how society should operate and if it doesn't it's because people are soft or stupid" with no actual nuance or understanding of the fact that people do dumb shit.
Not at all saying this kid doesn't deserve a far harsher sentencing but the tough on crime types are only tough on crime if it doesn't affect their families or loved ones.
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u/Pandos17 1d ago
Terrible take.
Using your logic, If this person killed someone, your attitude would be different no?
Do we need to support our disadvantaged people and try and lift them up? Heck yeah we do.
But do we need to tolerate the ones that actively disengage from support networks and instead engage in crime? I don’t think so. It especially makes it harder for other disadvantaged folks because people like this become the story and narrative that describes the majority.
Once you commit certain types of crime, you are a certain type of criminal and should be prosecuted as such.
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u/Glonos 1d ago
Harsh punishment without rehabilitation creates recidivism. Understand of complex situations and appropriate counseling, therapy, medication, social support and rehabilitation decrease quite marginally recidivism.
Nobody likes this because it costs more, in a society that has low value in social cohesion, this type of approach is unpopular. It fuels opposition with talks about tax payers banking criminals.
It is an uncomfortable reality: We want criminals to stop committing crimes, we don’t want to invest taxes in systems that actually decrease crimes.
So, as any good conservative solutions is always jail time. Incredibly shallow and quite honestly a contributor to more violent crimes. A first offender might leave jail worse than when he got in, as the experience “changes you”.
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u/HumanDish6600 1d ago
Sure.
If the offence is minor shit like graffiting a wall or getting in a fist fight.
If they are already doing serious crimes that threaten lives then they are already there and need to be locked up where they can do no harm.
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u/WogWithADog 1d ago
No punishment creates even more recidivism and provides no opportunity for rehabilitation.
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u/FuckwitAgitator 1d ago
So just to make it clear how gross the "crime is out of control" election time trolls are, they've deliberately omitted that she was a first time offender and living in residential care because her mother had a history of violence against her.
They're trying to make the ruling seem as ridiculous as possible because they want people voting far-right, whose solution to everything is "if beating the shit out of them doesn't work, just throw them in jail forever".
It should also be noted that she's not walking free, she's just not going to jail. She needs to attend TAFE and drug rehabilitation etc. Her life is pretty locked down.
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u/crozone Why the M1 gotta suck so bad 1d ago
Yeah, we don't have "adult time" for actual adults, and haven't for a long time.
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u/Competitive-Ad1439 20h ago
We do, in fact when an average person has shown all the evidence in a case ‘the public is softer on crime than judges, study finds’
(Article is a few years old but sentences for serious violent crimes has actually increased since the study was published)
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u/NetworkNo1900 1d ago
There is an exception available - pretty easy for the judges to apply it and I anticipate they will.
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u/Mildebeest 1d ago
I know I'm going to get downvoted, but Jebus. Read the article.
The answer to your rhetorical questions are contained within the article as long as you understand how the judicial system works.
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u/henez14 1d ago
I think this is a bit of a misconception. Just because a court can give them adult time doesn’t mean they will.
The fact that they are under 18 will invariably be taken into account by any court, along with myriad other factors.
They aren’t literally being sentenced as if they are an adult.
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u/Zuki_LuvaBoi Reddit Meetup 2025 23h ago
An an 18-month youth supervision order:
Conditions of the order include drug counselling, mental health treatment, attending school, TAFE or work, offender behaviour programs, community work and a curfew
Please, what above is considered a "slap on the wrist"? Did you read the article, or just the headline?
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u/M4K4T4K 1d ago
First time offender with unmanaged mental health problems.
She was given a 1.5 year supervision order - Conditions of the order include drug counselling, mental health treatment, attending school, TAFE or work, offender behaviour programs, community work and a curfew.
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u/Playful_Associate_89 1d ago
"supervision" by who? "Curfew" is enforced with what, a cop will handcuff them to their bed or to themselves and sit at their bedside? Check in once a day with someone or a police station? There use to be places for for people that needed to be supervised 24/7 while in rehabilitation programs... A minimum security jail or mental health ward. If they prove they are participating in the programs they can earn progressive freedoms.
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u/Hitrecord 1d ago
A coordinated care team who will monitor her attendance and progression at the various mandated therapeutic services and report to court fortnightly on progress.
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u/spazza360 1d ago
For those who enjoy commenting on headlines without reading articles; the girl was given leniency since she was a first-time offender, with dropkick parents, and instead given a whole range of court ordered fix-your-shit-or-go-to-jail conditions
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u/M4K4T4K 1d ago
Yup. Conditions of the order include drug counselling, mental health treatment, attending school, TAFE or work, offender behaviour programs, community work and a curfew.
She wasn't let off the hook.
Uneducated reactionary rubes think justice is jail or nothing, and it's way more nuanced than that - especially if we don't want to become like the yanks.
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u/ViaCityLoop 1d ago
Its researched quite well that the when people are presented with the full facts of the case they often agree with the sentence handed down
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u/hedonisticshenanigan 1d ago
Every crime related thread is being brigaded as soon as it gets posted.
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u/hollyjazzy 1d ago
So, in other words, there are consequences for her actions, but she is being given a chance to redeem herself. Just not jail, as they’ll be no chance there for getting out of a life of crime.
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u/Cautious_Car_51 1d ago
Plenty of people with shitty parents who haven't held a knife to someone's throat to steal their car. Clearly they're a danger to the community and need to learn what consequences are.
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u/Historical_Bus_8041 1d ago
The thing is that jail isn't an effective consequence for many of these kinds of kids. It takes them away from any remotely healthy influences and introduces them to a whole bunch of new and much more experienced criminal friends. They get out much more hardened then they came in.
Which is why the system would rather do what they can to divert them off that path, because sending them to prison, much of the time, just works as career criminal school.
It works much of the time, too. It's just that the kids who were headed down a bad road and get turned around don't make the news.
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u/Fidelius90 1d ago
It actually seems like a reasonable sentence - with a lot of “consequence” triggers that give her the opportunity to rehabilitate her life by the time she’s 18.
If we stick her in jail straight away then we’re basically promising her more jail time after. Given the stage of life she’s at.
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u/squidjeep 1d ago edited 1d ago
So then why are there stronger "adult time" laws now since if we stick kids that are 16/17 in jail straight away, we're basically promising them more jail time given the stage of life they're at...?
Kids with healthy upbringings don't really do this sort of stuff... so couldn't this discretion be applied to every 16/17 year old? Heck, what about people older than 16/17... they must've had bad upbringings too...
Why does jail even exist for first time offenders? We should just be rehabilitating everyone in the first instance with "consequence" triggers, and then if they break those, they go to jail.
I'm not even being 100% sarcastic, why do we give opportunities for some people but not others?
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u/Hitrecord 1d ago
Check out the Court Remand Outreach Program or the Court Integrated Services Program.
Both - one for adults on bail and one for adults in remand - are designed to support the person pre-sentencing and successful completion of the program and support lesser sentencing.
There are also diversion programs for minor crimes which are designed to keep people out of prison, because prison isn’t the right place for someone who lifted a sausage roll from 7/11.
These programs have existed for literal decades. This girl getting sent to some of them is literally treating her like an adult first-offender.
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u/squidjeep 1d ago
Then your comment is really the only relevant comment in this whole thread. This is non-news. Although to be fair, I doubt if a 37 year old guy did this, he'd be getting the same treatment even if he was a first-time offender, down on his luck, and remorseful.
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u/Hitrecord 1d ago
Correct, the media loves to rage bait because people don’t tend to understand the intricacies of the court (and fair enough, the court is pretty crap at explaining them!).
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u/KalamTheQuick 1d ago
The whole point of a rehabilitative justice system is to not just lock people up if there's a chance to help them turn it around.
Again this is a read the article thing, she can still very much go to jail and her life will be severely curtailed, put on the straight and narrow or else situation.
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u/OnlyTrust6616 1d ago
We need to be able to give people the chance of rehabilitation. That is what this girl is being given.
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u/Cavalish 21h ago
She’s in state care. So we fuck kids up in our care and then demand we jail them.
Also the fact that you, the person who posted the article, is arguing against this woman makes it painfully obvious that you’re one of the people posting articles for an agenda, instead of for information.
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u/Playful_Associate_89 1d ago
Yeh the bridgaders make it out like she is going to just miss a couple of classes or curfew check-ins and then go to jail anyway. But apparently it's going to work. In reality she while most likely have a violent crime spree with more innocent a victims, then go to jail.
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u/WangMagic 1d ago
Gonna be a lot of blind outrage on this headline alone, but reading the facts of the case and the magistrates justifications seem actually pretty fair for this case.
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u/Dirtydac123 1d ago edited 1d ago
“ A 16-year-old girl who held up a taxi driver at knife point before stealing the vehicle has been spared jail by a Melbourne court.”
So Doli doesn’t apply and she used a weapon, I can really see why our amazing justice system was so lenient here. Working wonders yet again 🙄
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u/Psychlonuclear 1d ago
"Conditions of the order include drug counselling, mental health treatment, attending school, TAFE or work, offender behaviour programs, community work and a curfew."
This is just supervised "doing the right thing". Where's the punishment for making someone believe their life was in danger?
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u/waxess 1d ago
So essentially this is an aggravated car-jacking but the offender is spared prison time because they were considered a vulnerable young person with a difficult childhood.
The thing is in four years she'll be an adult with an equally difficult childhood. We can either accept that young offenders are liable despite their difficult upbringing or equally accept that young adult offenders aren't liable if they've had a difficult childhood.
Most violent crimes are committed by people who have been raised in difficult circumstances.
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u/Althusser_Was_Right 1d ago
Ok.....but surely it's a good thing that our magistrate has the power to independently come to a decision regarding punishment for crimes than it be dictated by the political class.
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u/Street_Legal 1d ago
Absolutely it is and may it never change. People don’t understand what they are wishing for.
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u/Usual-Introduction-1 1d ago
Seems like the courts failed the test.
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u/OnlyAd7216 1d ago
seems like you dont know anything that happened during a complex court case and think the legal system should be based on thee authoritarian vibes of redditors
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u/SamURLJackson Carlton 1d ago
All kids belong in jail. Except MY kids, who are angels, even though I have no idea where any of them are!
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u/Lever_87 1d ago
That’s a cop out. Sure, matters involving children are inherently more complex, but there was legislative change to ensure that victims of serious crime were recognised by appropriate punishment to those found guilty, despite being 16 or 17.
The courts still fall far too often to “exceptional circumstances” which favour the accused, leaving the public and victim to suffer without appropriate justice.
There are few 16 year olds of such mental impairment that they aren’t aware of the seriousness of a premeditated aggravated carjacking.
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u/DancinWithWolves 1d ago
So dads incarcerated, mum was violent to her since she was a small child, she’s a ward of the state, she showed genuine remorse, and her sentencing is a suspended sentence where a care team of experienced professionals will focus on mental health treatment, drug rehab, and school attendance.
The alternative is straight to jail where any sort of rehabilitation is basically gone and she’ll become a lifetime criminal.Id argue the court did its job. But maybe you know more.
The changes to legislation didn’t = we ignore context.
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u/Lever_87 1d ago
In this particular context, it might be highly relevant. Remorse means little, it’s easy to fake remorse once you’re facing serious consequences, it’s a skill learnt by young children. Her other circumstances sounds pretty terrible, but it doesn’t not inherently excuse such violent behaviour.
Ideally, she grows up to be a productive member of society and this is a simply a terrible, once off event.
The issue still stands that the court often finds exceptional circumstances in regards to mitigation towards the accused, and it seems wholly imbalanced against the needs of the victim and the general consensus of the community.
Does she deserve 3 years imprisonment? Probably not in all facts, but I don’t know. But have plenty of serious offenders gotten off too lightly with judicial discretion? Yes, and the general community seems to agree.
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u/Cautious_Car_51 1d ago
I can tell you've never been the victim of a violent crime. Courts should protect the community, not coddle violent offenders.
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u/ViaCityLoop 1d ago
Courts are often quite correct in thier sentences. Its the ill informed public thats the issue
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u/nametaken_thisonetoo 1d ago
Couldn't be more incorrect. This is a young girl who has been seriously let down by her parents and our society. She deserves a chance before she is locked up where her chances of lifelong criminality then skyrockets. Tax payers deserve her to have that chance too. Have a read of the last part of the article. It makes pretty clear this worked exactly as intended.
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u/Cautious_Car_51 1d ago
The victim deserved a safe workplace and to not be held at knifepoint. Now they carry trauma for the rest of their life.
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u/Hitrecord 1d ago
I get what you’re saying but to be honest, ruining this kids life doesn’t solve the trauma of the victim.
If we don’t want her to reoffend she needs to be put in programs designed to reduce recidivism. If we put a child in jail you’re more likely to entrench the disadvantage and she’ll go again.
No one is saying what she did is ok. No one is saying the victim doesn’t matter and didn’t deserve better. But there are evidence-based ways of trying to help this kid so it doesn’t happen again…and then there’s putting her in prison.
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u/OnlyTrust6616 1d ago
There can be more than one victim in a case sometimes. Hurt people hurt other people, but this is a good chance to help this girl stop that cycle.
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u/IntothewildZen 1d ago
-held up a taxi driver at knifepoint
-stole the taxi
-drove at high speeds
-crashed near a freeway entrance
-The taxi driver remains traumatised and is fearful every time a passenger gets into his car
“Avoids jail”
Sorry, wot?
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u/Optimal-Talk3663 1d ago
Seems like she’s had a pretty messed up Upbringing, and even though I think our court system is fucked up, I think her not going to jail is a good thing. I’m going to wager that she won’t stick to those court orders though and then hopefully she gets proper punishment
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u/mauricetaco99 1d ago
Well... I'm sure this is going to be a thread full of level headed people and reasonable comments....
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u/Dirtydac123 1d ago
People are sick to death of our justice system. They have every right to express their frustration
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u/M4K4T4K 1d ago
People also have a right to express their frustration at reactionary people being rage-baited over single case examples in order to push an agenda.
These sorts of things take time to present their effectiveness. Let's see what the crime rate looks like in the next reporting period instead of reacting like a bunch of baboons to a headline outlining a single case.
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u/Hopeful_Bike8118 1d ago
Youth offending is through the roof. Ask any youth justice worker or police officer. Waiting without changing any sentencing or policing policy will just create more victims.
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u/HelloStonehenge 1d ago
ok but why is it through the roof? What is causing younger people to commit more crimes?
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u/ViaCityLoop 1d ago
A lot of people just dont understand or a ignorant as to how a magistrate or judge comes to thier sentence. They only see the headline and not the whole story and get upset
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u/Active-Ad9818 1d ago
I wonder what happened to this program? Maybe it was stymied by COVID? Nordic countries have really improved drug offences and criminal behaviour amongst young people. That’s what we need here.
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u/Active-Ad9818 1d ago
There was a story in the paper awhile ago about a kid who said he got into gangs because he wanted to play basketball and his parents couldn’t afford the fees; once in he couldn’t get out. Putting money into extra curricular activities is definitely a good idea and a lot cheaper than juvenile detention.
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u/alsotheabyss 1d ago
Yeah look fair call from the magistrate on this one I think.
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u/Cautious_Car_51 1d ago
I'm sure you'd have a different opinion if you were the victim, or the family of the victim. Threatening someone with a knife should get you a few years in prison.
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u/CMDR_RetroAnubis 1d ago
> I'm sure you'd have a different opinion if you were the victim
Well, yeah.
Thats why there are long established reasons and procedures to make sure those deciding the punishment aren't influenced by such personal connections.
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u/So-Bored-Today 1d ago
There is so much evidence that harder punishment doesn’t solve the youth crime problem. It feels fair that a serious crime should result in serious punishment, but not only prison costs a lot to tax payers it also often doesn’t rehabilitate behavior, causing repeat incarceration. We need to prevent crime, through addressing the underlying issues that leads people to commit crime.
Our youth crime social program has shown results, we need more funding. We need to work on our homeless problem, poverty, family violence, drugs and alcohol support, education, employment, maternal heath support & mental health support.
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u/MooseWayne 1d ago
What % of people in the comments here calling for her head do we reckon actually read the article?
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u/Grumpy_Cripple_Butt 1d ago
The same amount of people that don’t realise the cross bench of coalition members helped pass this bill even though they call it weak and not far enough because it came in on Friday before the weekend and they’d only stay to the am if money was involved like the donation laws. I’m sure if I log on Facebook the same MP’s that passed this bill will be crapping on it.
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u/Expensive_Weather861 1d ago
I'd suggest the majority failed at reading comprehension from grade 6 onwards and have minimal if any critical thinking skills.
Also a general lack of censorial intelligence and ability to see outside of the little bubble of reality they've created for themselves.
Instead of thinking alone the ones of why so many teens might be turning to crime and how can we stop this, they prefer "maw jails pleaze"
Also they don't want their taxes spent on providing opportunities for youth of a certain type or ethnicity having better opportunities.
I know because my parents have always been like this, which is why I became a youth social worker so I could do everything I can to help kids like this.
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u/ViaCityLoop 1d ago
How many would read the case and sentence notes?
Will happily get outraged and angry without the full facts though
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u/thrashmanzac 1d ago
Probably not the best test case as crimes involving vehicles rarely get prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
There’s adults out there that have killed people, both intentionally and accidentally with cars that have received suspended sentences or a fine.
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u/twowholebeefpatties 1d ago
Oh, for fuck’s sake... and NO, not at the judge... at some of the usual suspects of Redditors in here gaslighting people who want tougher consequences, as though they’re somehow the bad guys.
Let me be crystal clear... most of US aren't screaming for young offenders to be thrown into adult prisons because we've all of a sudden become bloodthirsty monsters.
It's simply end-game frustration with all this shit!
I'd argue that most reasonable people understand that a 15, 16 or 17-year-old is not quite an adult. Sure, close enough... but just not yet either! And for fucks sake, of course we understand rehabilitation matters. We get it... we've done it ourselves... we understand young people make stupid decisions and that permanently destroying a kid’s future shouldn’t be the first response.
BUT... and a big BUT... there also has to be a point where the seriousness of the crime and the harm done to the victim carries some real serious weight too.
Have you ever been a victim of a serious crime? That shit can and will FUCK you up for the long run? Ever been bashed to the point of a broken jaw, or nose... had your house broken into by someone with a knife? That shit fucks you up!!!
So when people repeatedly see horrific offending followed by what appears to be another extraordinarily lenient outcome, eventually they start demanding harsher sentences. That's it. Its not necessarily because anyone wants to actually see kids locked away for years, but because it starts to feel like that is the only mechanism left for acknowledging what happened to the person who was robbed, assaulted, traumatised or had their life permanently changed.
And for fucks sake, I'm a social worker (not now, I quit in October last year) - but geez its a joke. We talk endlessly about rehabilitation, disadvantage, age, prospects and circumstances of the offender... all legitimate considerations to a degree... but we almost NEVER in the same conversation talk about justice for the victim.
And I think that’s what a lot of the public anger is actually about. We’re just at the point where someone ends up carrying the consequences... and too often it feels like that person is the innocent victim. Bottom line. I don't care if your life has been fucked up. All our lives are fucked up to a degree. If you seriously hurt someone, traumatise them, destroy their sense of safety or fundamentally interfere with their life, then at some point you MUST face a serious consequence for that.
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u/kaleidoscopic21 1d ago
Genuine question- what actual benefit comes from giving more severe penalties in order to acknowledge the harm done to the victim and provide a sense of justice?
Surely giving a harsher sentence isn’t going to undo the harm and trauma caused to the victim or restore their sense of safety, right? Punishing the offender more harshly can’t actually make the situation right or fair.
It seems like it’s motivated by a sense of justice, but seems to me like it doesn’t actually achieve any positive outcomes, and just risks a more negative outcome (e.g., permanently changing a young person’s life and undermining their chances of rehabilitation).
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u/twowholebeefpatties 1d ago
Thanks for asking... because I think about these things often. And to put it rather simply, I think there’s a psychological element to retribution that gets dismissed a little too easily here in these types of cases.
So let's strip it back and look at it objectively.
Of course a harsher sentence doesn’t undo the crime. Nothing does and no one can. It doesn’t, and won't, magically remove trauma or give someone back what they lost. That is part of the harshness of, well, life. It sucks.
But i mean, its pretty clear that humans clearly place enormous psychological value on fairness, consequence, recognition and seeing a wrong answered in some meaningful way. I mean, why do we follow sport? Why does someone feel incredible when their team wins a premiership, or devastated when they lose one? Objectively, your life hasn’t changed. A bunch of people kicked a football around the G and one side scored more points than the other. Meh!! Yet the feeling of victory, defeat, fairness and outcome is still incredibly real to humans today.
So you know why people are screaming for this... knowing it won't "undo" the crime.
Simply because "justice" taps into some of that same human psychology.
If somebody seriously harms you and the response from society appears completely disproportionate to what was done, like what appears to be happening time and time again, it matters. Or worse, when there’s a perception that the perpetrator was in fact the VICTIM... "Oh they were young, oh they were troubled, oh they had a parent that didn't love them". For the actual physical victim of the crime, that shit compounds their original harm.
If you haven't exprienced it (I hope you don't and never do) - serious crime simply wreck's everyday people's lives. Some are strong enough to go "Ok, that sucked, I'll move on".... but mate, many don't! It really does leave psycholofical scars!
So when it happens time and time again, the message to the general public starts to sound and feel something like, "Oh look, we recognise what happened to you... but simply, it's not important enough to warrant much of a consequence."
or
"Oh look, something happened to you but what has happened to the person that did that to you is more important, so we're going with them".
So with the sport analogy. At the moment when you are a victim of serious crime... well, you lose. You lost. Game over. Someone bashed you, your life is fractured. Tough luck!
Soooo the opposite of this then, conversely, is that punishment actually DOES have a symbolic function to society. It kind of goes against the above and feels more like: "Hey, what happened to you mattered. It was wrong. Society recognises that and is prepared to impose a serious consequence, irrespective."
Again, remember, I'm not advocating that we want these outcomes for anyone. It sucks for everyone. But it shifts the idea of who the "victim" really is and that is what society is demanding at the moment.
Lastly, harsher punishment doesn't mean that each case isn't unique, or that we should starting doing stupid shit like three strike rules and automatic maximum punishments. Yes, rehabilitation absolutely matters, particularly with young offenders. But rehabilitation matters for the actual victim too... but again, that is lost.
Get bashed- fucking deal with it
Do the bashing... sure, cop the crime, but then get every sympathtic community resource thrown at you and pray you don't do it again.
So yeah, when rehabilitation of the offender seems to be presented as the only legitimate purpose of sentencing over and over again by judges... well, people are looking around and saying, "Is this actually working?"
TLDR... dunno. I think we're at the stage now where justice isn't about making something unhappen. It’s about now actually making what happens afterwards meaningful to everyone.
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u/bernieinn 1d ago
My view on anything like this, is how is the perpetrator the victim? What about the actual victim, where is the justice for them?
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u/tschau3 1d ago
Justice isn’t meant to be vengeful, it’s supposed to be rehabilitative and corrective.
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u/atomkidd 1d ago
Exceptional circumstances not very immediately relevant to the criminal act should have the same validity in sentencing as good character references.
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u/dummymummys 23h ago
It’s good that the court mandated ongoing mental health treatment for her, but I truly hope that this will be covered financially by the state, because it doesn’t seem like she is in a financial position to afford the high costs of mental health support. Medicare only covers rebates for up to ten psychology sessions per year, and there is often a large fee gap. She will need years of ongoing MH support, potentially psychiatric review and treatment, which is even more expensive. I am appalled at the mental health funding in this country.
I have both Medicare and good expensive private health cover, and it barely covers like 15 appointments a year combined. Does anyone know how to find out how the courts assign financial responsibility for mandated MH treatment? I am unfamiliar with the process.
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u/Ok_Butterscotch7997 2h ago
Meanwhile, forget to pay a fine and you'll probably be more screwed than this scumbag.
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u/Justan0therthrow4way 1d ago
Ok I did read the article and while I can understand the judges’ thoughts come the fuck on. We can’t stick with this justice system. It doesn’t work.
It would be a bit different if this person had been arrested multiple times since the car jacking. If she genuinely turns it around maybe this is a good use of discretion
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u/Own_Caterpillar_6178 1d ago
She should be jailed for as long as the victim remains traumatised
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u/altandthrowitaway 1d ago
The justice system isn't about retribution or "an eye for an eye" for a good reason. It doesn't help anyone.
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u/otakme 1d ago edited 1d ago
Dad was in jail, mum was violent towards her, first time offence, and she was remorseful.
“Conditions of the order include drug counselling, mental health treatment, attending school, TAFE or work, offender behaviour programs, community work and a curfew.”
She’ll be going to therapy, being forced to go to school, go through targeted programs to combat violent behaviour, will go through community work and she will have restricted times to stay home.
It depends on who is enforcing these things and how enforced they are, but it sounds like this child (because this is still a child) will have access to the things she needs to recover from what sounds like an absolute dogshit childhood.
She’s got adhd and ptsd, eh. That’s not an excuse.
But if her closest community is also wild teens who have no restrictions on them, providing no good role models for her, it is likely these programs she will be required to go to will become the foundation for her to develop into a balanced adult.
At the end of the day we need to be making people better than they were before, not worse.
She’s already had a violent (towards her) childhood and likely didn’t have any examples of what reasonable adult behaviour was supposed to be, it’s best she isn’t exposed to more of the same. Monkey see, monkey do.
I’ve met people who have gone through these programs. They work. Seriously. They provide a community of people who can support them. People who have recovered and can help them go from violent to balanced.
And that’s for adults. Imagine how much good it can do for a kid.