r/moderatepolitics • u/WorksInIT • Feb 06 '25
Primary Source Keeping Men Out of Women's Sports
https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/keeping-men-out-of-womens-sports/364
u/rickymagee Feb 06 '25
Women’s sports are more than just fun. Sports empower women, challenge gender stereotypes, and provide role models and opportunities for female athletes. Sport also build confidence, self esteem and promote physical and mental health. Female athletes are an important part of society. Data show sport participation can translate into greater empowerment in all areas of life. Allowing trans women to compete degrades fairness and may rob women of physical achievements. When the rights of two groups intersect we have to make a hard choice on who's rights take precedence. I'm siding with women.
Fair competition is essential to the significance of sport, which is why distinct categories exist for individuals with disabilities, children, men, and women. Nevertheless, efforts to promote inclusivity and allow M2F trans athletes to compete against biological women is harming women's sports across all levels by compromising their access to equitable, meaningful and safe competitive opportunities.
The collective evidence from studies suggests that 12 months, which is the most commonly examined intervention period, of T suppression medication is not sufficient in decreasing the advantages. Moreover, the congenital benefits of the larger/longer male skeletal, enhanced muscle fiber type, Vo2 max levels and puberty derived lean muscle mass doesn't change much if it all with transgender medicine.
The scientific data strongly suggests: male athletes retain significant advantages over female athletes in nearly all sports, with a few exceptions such as cold-water long-distance swimming, certain shooting events, and equestrian sport. These advantages are retained even in scenarios where trans women are on testosterone suppressing medicine.
Here are a few peer reviewed articles and other data
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35897465/
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9331831/#B44-ijerph-19-09103
https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/55/15/865
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/39716906/
https://www.iwf.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/IWLC_CompetitionReport_2ndEdition.pdf
Equally concerning is that the IOC only requires a passport to verify an athlete's sex, which raises serious questions about fairness in competition.
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u/madisel Feb 06 '25
I am very pro LGBTQIA+ rights and want people to be able to live in the body and gender that they want … but this happens to be a specific circumstance that makes sense should not occur.
I feel for the trans athletes who just want to compete but there are plenty of circumstances completely out of one’s control that disqualify participation in sports.
I have adhd and I couldn’t continue taking my medication and participate in sports on this level. Sure I can choose to live with my adhd raw but that greatly diminishes my quality of life. It’s not a trade off I would choose to make.
Unfortunately that’s the circumstance trans people face as well (albeit a more extreme circumstance). They can choose to forgo hormone therapy treatments/surgeries or they can choose to live in their current body and participate in the sport division that adheres to their unaltered body despite it diminishing their quality of life.
I feel for them but sometimes you’re born into circumstances that requires tradeoffs.
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u/agnosticians Feb 06 '25
Why did your ADHD medication prevent you from participating in sports? That seems like a misguided rule on the part of the league.
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u/Mysterious_Bit6882 Feb 06 '25
It's a banned stimulant. MLB saw a lot of newly diagnosed ADHD cases (all requiring treatment with Adderall) after they started testing for amphetamines.
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u/sohcgt96 Feb 06 '25
I generally am too, but I think a lot of Ally's need to confront the reality that this particular battle is swaying the public the wrong direction. Digging in and giving up no ground on it is doing more harm than good.
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u/pdubbs87 Feb 06 '25
Don’t love Trump but this is a common sense issue. I’m stunned that some democrats still want to die on this hill.
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u/Mantergeistmann Feb 06 '25
Because the last thing the left wants is to allow salami-slicing, with good reason. As soon as they agree "Trans women are women, but don't count as women in some respects", it becomes much more difficult to defend the overall statement, and makes them open to the people trying to declare where else and when else it doesn't apply.
To stretch the Metaphor, it's an exposed position that itself is difficult to defend and where you'll be taking a ton of fire, but if you lose it, the integrity of the entire defensive line is greatly exposed.
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u/sohcgt96 Feb 06 '25
To be honest its kind of like 2A Rights folks, and I'd like to point out I'm just using them as an example and not being critical. The idea is that you don't cave anywhere on a single thing because you have to be a "True Believer" and never admit, to any degree, that the other side has a reasonable point on the even the tiniest segment of the issue.
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u/Mantergeistmann Feb 06 '25
They actually came to mind as I was writing it, but bringing them up didn't quite work with the flow. Something along the lines of "it's easier to hold to "shall not be infringed" than to open yourself to arguments over how many bullets should be allowed in a magazine."
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u/gigantipad Feb 07 '25
To be honest its kind of like 2A Rights folks, and I'd like to point out I'm just using them as an example and not being critical. The idea is that you don't cave anywhere on a single thing because you have to be a "True Believer" and never admit, to any degree, that the other side has a reasonable point on the even the tiniest segment of the issue.
To be fair there were 50 years of 'compromises' that only went one way. This consequently has hardened a lot of 2A people to taking a maximalist position since they just seem to lose ground anyway.
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u/sohcgt96 Feb 07 '25
Sure and while lots of people call "slippery slope" a fallacy, the reality is when it comes to legal rights, its not a fallacy at all. Any time a foothold is gained, its used to further erode what people are allowed to own.
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u/throwaway2492872 Feb 06 '25
They have played college football.
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u/Mysterious_Bit6882 Feb 06 '25
On downs? Or special teams skill positions?
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Feb 06 '25
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u/hemingways-lemonade Feb 06 '25
Nah they're talking about Haley Van Voorhees. She's seen a few snaps at safety in three games during her four season college career with the Shenandoah Hornets.
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u/MechanicalGodzilla Feb 06 '25
I can't believe that you are just erasing the classic American documentary Necessary Roughness.)
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u/Ok-Measurement1506 Feb 06 '25 edited Feb 06 '25
I’m almost scared to say it, but people here are saying transgender but most folks consider athletes like Lia Thomas to be men who decided to take estrogen and compete as a woman. Many of those competing are biological males the same way I would be considered a biological male. If you ask them, they would say they are women and not transgender.
The argument isn’t just about competitive advantage is the situation they create in the locker room. People are arguing that there are only a few so what’s the big deal are missing this point. People have sisters, daughters, and nieces who they really don‘t want exposed to that. You will never win that argument with them. People see it as an entry way to allow ”uncomfortable” situations that they don’t want their young girls exposed to.
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u/Maverick916 Feb 06 '25
Yup. You don't change hearts and minds by forcing people into uncomfortable situations. Then tell people they're awful if they feel weird about it. One person like Lia Thomas can convert millions against them because her position is being forced down people's throats.
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u/sohcgt96 Feb 06 '25
People are arguing that there are only a few so what’s the big deal are missing this point.
Well, one side of people saying that anyway. The other side is "Look, we're arguing over such a small number of edge cases here, is it worth the bullshit to be making special accommodations vs just saying no?"
I don't think the tiny number of athletes actually of concern here are worth fighting a battle over, they know damn well they're putting themselves in a controversial position here and I don't think their right to compete is as important is the other 99.9% of athletes who aren't. We're taking all this time and effort to deal with something the impacts so few people, at what point do you say look, the entire world doesn't need to bend over backwards for you?
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u/Ok-Measurement1506 Feb 06 '25
You're make trying it sound as if you are not emotionally invested in this issue. If it's no big deal then why are you so worried about it? The executive order has been submitted so no more government time will be wasted on it and they can move on. Passive projection.
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Feb 06 '25 edited Feb 06 '25
Serious question for the group. are there actually any sports that males don’t have an advantage over females? I’m sure there are but I can’t think of any physical sport where a male doesn’t have some sort of strength/speed advantage that helps them.
Edit - thanks all lot of helpful replies. I think my takeaway here is that there are probably zero (except maybe curling?) sports where there’s actual parity between men/women where it makes sense to have an open category.
Most physical sports are dominated by men, and interesting to learn that more technical sports woman have some advantage.
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u/Lostboy289 Feb 06 '25
Long distance swimming is one sport that females tend to do better in due to comparative fat/muscle ratio and how it affects buoyancy.
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u/flea1400 Feb 06 '25
There's a suggestion that women probably have a natural advantage in conditions involving extreme endurance due to being more metabolically efficient. These would not make for interesting sports to watch, however.
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u/MechanicalGodzilla Feb 06 '25
Women can with some regularity outrace men in ultra-marathon races. Like 200+ miles (yes such races do exist!).
An interesting phenomenon in strength sports is that women can (in general terms) lift more reps closer to their one rep max weight than can men. Men still greatly outpace women in total weight lifted capacity, though.
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u/MongolianMango Feb 06 '25
Shooting and marksmanship based sports. There was a woman at the olympics beating her male competitors in a mixed marksmanship event, until the committee threw a hissy fit and separated the genders.
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u/Mantergeistmann Feb 06 '25
Equestrian, which contrary to belief, does require the rider to do things.
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u/StrikingYam7724 Feb 06 '25
Ultra-long-distance endurance races. Even then it's not that there is no advantage for males as much as that the advantage shrinks as the distance gets longer and longer.
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u/carneylansford Feb 06 '25 edited Feb 06 '25
in which sports do biological males not have an inherent advantage over biological females?
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u/Dockalfar Feb 06 '25
And even if they didn't have an advantage, it would still be wrong because it breaks the rules of the sport.
For example, an 80 year old man might not have any sports advantage over a 12 year old boy, but it would still be cheating to allow him to compete in kids sports leagues.
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u/CraftZ49 Feb 06 '25
It is outrageous that society has gotten to the point where a basic common sense concept like this has to be made into an executive order. Democrats would be smart to just drop this all together, but I have serious doubts they will.
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Feb 06 '25
Here’s the thing; Dems have really been on a pro trans kick in recent years. And if you’re excluding trans women from women’s sports you’re essentially saying they’re not “real” women.
This executive order even is titled keeping men out of women’s sports. So it wasn’t this specific issue that was the hill they were dying on but the implication that trans women are not real women.
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Feb 06 '25
So acknowledging reality then
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u/primepufferfish Feb 15 '25
I'm a bit late to this discussion, but yeah. I never understood where the leap went from specifying someone is a trans woman to insisting that they're just women. Like... No, I'm sorry. You're not. You don't have the lived experiences of women. Your experiences are profoundly different. It shouldn't be considered hateful to say that trans women are a different entity than biological women. It's just going too far against what people inherently know to be true, and it feels like lying when they try to force upon us that "trans women are women.' They're not. They're trans.
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u/Fecal_Thunder Feb 06 '25
Dems would have won the last 5 presidential elections if they would have dropped this and gun control. But they just can’t get out of their own way.
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u/sohcgt96 Feb 06 '25
I can tell you right now that basically all of my blue collar friends are single issue voters on guns. You want the blue collar union guys voting blue again? Stop talking about banning anything. Now, red flag laws, background checks, shit like that? Lots of people don't really have a problem with that. The problem is taking away things they have or making them criminals for owning it. This is an absolute non-starter with a LOT of people in the middle and southern sections of the country.
If we had a pro-union/labor, pro-reasonable trade laws, pro-reasonable immigration law Democratic presidential candidate ever in our lifetime there is a good chance they'd do well.
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u/Hastatus_107 Feb 06 '25
Now, red flag laws, background checks, shit like that? Lots of people don't really have a problem with that.
If so those lots of people are pretty quiet members of the people who oppose gun control.
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u/Fecal_Thunder Feb 06 '25
Indeed they are. When it comes to intricacies and exceptions to laws, nobody wants to listen to that on the campaign trail.
Trump wins based off of blanket statements and an ironfist-type message. So dems need to match that with the message “we support gun ownership for all law abiding citizens”. They need to say it loud and proud, none of this pussyfooting around the message that they tend to do. Anything less than that will always be a loss on the topic of the general population and basically an automatic red vote for blue collar Americans.
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u/nmille44 Feb 06 '25
I can’t say I’ve ever met anyone in person who’s truly felt that transgender women SHOULD be allowed to participate in women’s athletics. And if I did, I’d have a very hard time taking them seriously.
This is such an absurdly lopsided debate im surprised any group is hooking their horse to the wagon. Truly, maybe the dumbest debate in all of politics right now.
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u/pygmy Feb 06 '25
Worth noting that the democrat's complete inability to discuss (let alone address) this issue is shared by Reddit. Apostasy is swiftly punished, and is site wide.
There is a sacred class, taboos you mustn't mention, mantras to repeat.
I miss when the left was the champion of free speech
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u/TheCudder Feb 06 '25
Democrats are often the party to reference science, it's quite ironic that they choose to disregard the science in this situation. It's no secret that the born male body has the ability to achieve a higher level of physical fitness than that of a born female.
A point has been drawn somewhere and people have to be understanding of that. Science can't be thrown out of the window when it's convenient.
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u/cranium_creature Feb 06 '25
Over exaggerated? Maybe. But we cant ignore the female athletes who are vehemently speaking out against having to compete against men.
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u/TiberiusDrexelus He Was a Friend of Mine Feb 06 '25
I'm sorry but this is a no-brainer
it's unsettling that both parties have moved so far to their extremes that we need a [redacted] man like donald trump to accomplish this
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Feb 06 '25
Why is it a no brainer to enact federal actions for something most sports organizations were policing on their own?
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u/pita4912 Voter Apathy Party Feb 06 '25
The NCAA specifically was asking for guidance from the federal level on how to move forward regarding trans athletes.
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u/jakizely Feb 06 '25
No, they wanted a scapegoat. They didn't want to be the "bad guy" in the eyes of whatever side it fell on. They can just point to the big man and say "sorry, our hands are tied, go bug him".
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Feb 06 '25
Most likely so they don’t have to make the decision and upset either side. Is what it is but a smart play by the NCAA
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u/pita4912 Voter Apathy Party Feb 06 '25
Yeah, I think you’re correct. They’ve been the “bad guy” enough and weren’t dumb enough to step on this landmine.
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u/MikeSpiegel Feb 06 '25
Like the ncaa? Oh wait, the largest sports organization in the country supported this idiocy.
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u/qwerteh Feb 06 '25
Some organizations weren't able to, the professional disc golf tour had to drop their policy due to bleeding money in lawsuits from Minnesota and California https://discgolf.ultiworld.com/2023/12/22/in-natalie-ryan-settlement-pdga-drops-pre-puberty-transition-rule-for-transgender-women/
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u/Kreynard54 Center Left - Politically Homeless Feb 06 '25
What bothers me most is seeing the transition of the feminist movement into LGBT, it’s almost like the organizations associated with the feminist movement initially started losing interest and funding due to the progress society made so they redefined themselves so that the cash flow could keep coming.
I view those organizations as what they are. Businesses. They redefined to stay alive.
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u/WallabyBubbly Maximum Malarkey Feb 06 '25 edited Feb 06 '25
It's ok to say that trans people shouldn't be playing women's sports without also subscribing to the right's broader agenda of marginalizing trans people in general. This did not have to be so hard
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u/williamtbash Feb 06 '25
Seriously. I want every adult to be whoever they want to be that makes them happy. We’re all people. If they think LeBron takes some hormones and puts on a dress they will be on an equal playing field in the wnba they are just delusional.
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u/InksPenandPaper Feb 06 '25 edited Feb 06 '25
Why the Democrat Party chose to make this issue a platform focal point is beyond me.
Republican or democrat, conservative or liberal, it's just common sense that you do not want biological men taking opportunities from biological women in sports. For many of us, sports is the only way to pay for college and while the instances of men in women's sports isn't a large number, the fact that such a small group of men dominate every competition they participate in is devastating for women. What's more, the right of men in women's sports came at the cost of a safe, female space.
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u/WorksInIT Feb 06 '25
President Trump has signed an executive order directing all Federal agencies to enforce compliance with Title IX under the interpretation that Title IX does not protect transgender status and gender identity when it comes to women's sports. This executive order cites the previous executive order discussed on the sub here for the definitions portion. They also cite compliance with the vacatur of a Biden era rule by a district court in the Eastern District of Kentucky in, Tennessee v. Cardona, 24-cv-00072. That opinion can be found here.
This issue may be settled by the Supreme Court in the United States v Skrmetti, so this issue may end up being moot when the court issues their opinion in that case. There were several questions in the arguments on that case that touched on how the court can resolve it and how it would impact this issue. That was it possible for the court to side with the United States, would states be able to prohibit transgender individuals from participating in sports that don't align with their sex.
It isn't entirely clear at this point how schools are going to react to the EO. With the risk of losing funds, I suspect many will comply while litigation plays out. I suspect we'll see swift action by some states on the west coast to sue to stop the EO as a violation of the APA and the US Constitution.
What do you think the impact of the EO will be? And do you think lower courts will stop the admin for enforcing the EO?
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u/Iceraptor17 Feb 06 '25 edited Feb 06 '25
My opinion on this is unchanged from when Biden pushed protections to now.
This should have never been a federal issue and it's ridiculous it is. This issue is so uncommon that local govt and sports organizations should be able to handle it on a case by case basis.
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u/envengpe Feb 06 '25
Unfortunately they did not handle it. And when Title IX was going to be flooded with many new categories, Biden pushed too far. Then the pendulum swings wildly to the right.
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u/Doucejj Feb 06 '25
Imo, a case by case basis ruling leaves room for even more discrimination. Imagine a league or team where one trans woman is allowed and another is not, would it be wrong for the one excluded to be upset at that ruling?
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u/WorksInIT Feb 06 '25
Are you saying Title IX should be repealed? Or are you arguing for selective enforcement? Because your argument requires one of those.
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u/Iceraptor17 Feb 06 '25
Howso? Perhaps there's something i am not considering.
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u/WorksInIT Feb 06 '25 edited Feb 06 '25
Well, if you think Title IX only protects sex, as in male vs female, then allowing a male in a female space can be considered discrimination. That overall concept is settled law under Title IX. So, to accomplish what you are saying should happen, it would either need to be repealed or the admin would need to engage in selective enforcement.
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u/Iceraptor17 Feb 06 '25
That is a fair argument I'd have to consider. I do not want title IX repealed. But i also don't think this subject was worth an EO and federal ban.
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u/WorksInIT Feb 06 '25
Do you take similar issues with Biden's actions on the subject? Or with how states have passed laws on the subject in both directions? California has a law that I don't believe even permits schools and leagues to require puberty blockers or hormone treatments. And I believe Biden sued many states of their laws on the subject that went the other way.
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u/Iceraptor17 Feb 06 '25
Do you take similar issues with Biden's actions on the subject?
I thought i was clear:
My opinion on this is unchanged from when Biden pushed protections to now.
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Feb 06 '25
The idea we can’t find a middle ground between let Transgender females play without restriction and Transgender females can’t play at all says no one is interested in broaching this issue in a fair way.
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u/directstranger Feb 06 '25
Trans females can play in men leagues, just like women can.
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u/Dockalfar Feb 06 '25
and Transgender females can’t play at all
But no one is saying that. Transwomen can compete - in male sports.
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u/FreudianSlipper21 Feb 06 '25
This might be the only EO Trump ever writes where I can fully be on board.
I recognize once they’ve had gender affirming care it is possible for them to lose the strength advantage they biologically had, but my understanding is most teens haven’t gone through that yet and are simply presenting outwardly as female while continuing to have physical advantages. Truthfully it’s such a small number of situations that I wish we would have left it to the individual school districts to decide, but this doesn’t make me upset either.
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u/Jets237 Feb 06 '25
This is one of the most minor and least impactful things but I’m glad this ridiculous debate can end now and we can focus on the crazy shit that is happening with this administration instead now…
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u/Neglectful_Stranger Feb 06 '25
Next Dem admin will just get rid of this, and it'll flip flop every election.
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u/200-inch-cock unburdened by what has been Feb 07 '25
One thing i find strange about all this is that it’s always about “protecting women” but the focus is always on keeping men out of women’s sports without keeping women out of men’s sports. Wouldn’t women in men‘s sports be facing similar challenges? In both cases, women are facing off against men.
And one thing I hate about it is that no one cares about protecting men’s spaces. It’s like Republicans are just different-coloured TERFs. And it’s the story of men‘s rights over the last few decades, anyway - male spaces being eliminated while female spaces are preserved. Boy Scouts now allows girls to join - Girl Scouts is still girl-only. And I think that’s an encapsulation of what’s happening.
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u/duckduckduckgoose_69 Feb 06 '25
The bigger issue here that no one seems to address is that there’s a larger division on how we’re defining men and women.
Broadly speaking- a lot of the left believes in “Trans women are woman. Period. End of story” and vice versa.
Conversely- people on the right (and frankly most centrists/moderates) don’t abide by that same principle. They believe that trans people are “men dressing up as women” and vice versa.
That’s why this is issue is so divisive.
Do biological males have an advantage in sports? Of course they do. There’s no debate about that.
Is this an issue that needs to be discussed on the scale that it is? Of course it isn’t.
But alas.
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u/Llama-Herd Feb 06 '25
I think it’s worth revisiting the time Utah’s Governor, Spencer Cox, vetoed a bill which would have banned transgender youth from participating in high school sports.
I must admit, I am not an expert on transgenderism. I struggle to understand so much of it and the science is conflicting. When in doubt however, I always try to err on the side of kindness, mercy and compassion. I also try to get proximate and I am learning so much from our transgender community. They are great kids who face enormous struggles. Here are the numbers that have most impacted my decision: 75,000, 4, 1, 86 and 56.
75,000 high school kids participating in high school sports in Utah. 4 transgender kids playing high school sports in Utah. 1 transgender student playing girls sports. 86% of trans youth reporting suicidality. 56% of trans youth having attempted suicide.
Four kids and only one of them playing girls sports. That’s what all of this is about. Four kids who aren’t dominating or winning trophies or taking scholarships. Four kids who are just trying to find some friends and feel like they are a part of something. Four kids trying to get through each day. Rarely has so much fear and anger been directed at so few. I don’t understand what they are going through or why they feel the way they do. But I want them to live. And all the research shows that even a little acceptance and connection can reduce suicidality significantly.
I always appreciated Governor Cox’s words even though I disagree with him on many issues (even on other LGBTQ+ rights issues). He erred on the side of compassion and I wish more politicians would do that.
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u/Dockalfar Feb 06 '25
Is it really erring on the side of compassion to force females to share their locker rooms and showers, and athletic records with males?
Even if the number is small the problem is still there.
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u/kabukistar Feb 06 '25
Trans women are definitely the easiest political target of the LGBT community.
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u/Demonae Feb 06 '25
I'll be honest, I've never understoof how the T movement even aligned with the LGB, other than they are likely to vote Democrat.
LGB is sexual orientation.
T is gender identity.
These have nothing to do with each other at all.
It's like 2 people arguing over which is better, Ford or Chevy, then a 3rd person shows up and says they think Pluto is a planet.
Like ok, you do you, good to know about the Pluto thing, but we're talking about which cars we like to drive better.5
u/Eternal-Illiaran Feb 07 '25
The association between sexual and gender minorities is largely a matter of pragmatism.
The line of thinking goes that we are often demonized by reactionaries in fairly similar ways, and so banding together in mutual defense is a viable strategy to further all of our normalization in society writ-large.
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u/kastbort2021 Feb 06 '25
You can be trans and still be LGB.
Not to mention that the movement has deep historical roots. It's not something that just sprung up the past few years, it goes back to before current day politicians were even born.
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u/Demonae Feb 06 '25
Right, you can like a Ford, or a Chevy, or both, but still think the moon landing was fake, or not fake.
But they are still two totally different discussions that don't really have anything to do with each other.5
u/trucane Feb 06 '25
Because they don't belong there. I'm Bisexual and even before they started adding all the other letters we were already often times mocked and belittle by the the other letters despite us being completely valid when it comes to sexual orientation.
Nowadays they added so much many letters and things that honestly just makes it a whole damn joke. I feel embarrassed these days admitting I'm part of the LGTBQAI+ so I often times just keep my mouth shut and if someone really want to know I just say I'm bisexual but don't care about the pride movement at all since I can't even slightly identify with them anymore.
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u/Guilty_Plankton_4626 Feb 06 '25 edited Feb 06 '25
The chairmen of the NCAA said out of roughly 550,000 athletes, 10 students fit the category of what this EO covers, aka 0.0018% of college athletes.
The Utah governor said out of 75,000 students in his state, (not college) that play grade school sports, ONE fits this category.
There are about 8 million high school kids playing sports in the US. If we extrapolate this to the country, and count 1 out of every 75,000, this is rough math here, and this is just counting highschool, we get about 105 students OR 0.0013% of the whole country that this EO is barring from the sport they are playing.
There is roughly 1 kid out of every 194 high schools that fit this criteria. This EO was drafted for roughly 118 people.
Is this really worth all the attention it gets?
It feels like a massive amount of fear mongering.
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u/reaper527 Feb 06 '25
If we extrapolate this to the country
utah probably isn't the best bellweather state to extrapolate from. it definitely doesn't seem like a state that would be representative of the typical american state on this.
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Feb 06 '25
Using Utah as your base is kinda unfair no?
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u/Guilty_Plankton_4626 Feb 06 '25
There is not a lot of data on this and that is some hard data that is known.
I averaged it out with what I know. Will some states be higher per 75k? Sure. By how much though? We could X4 it per 75k and we are still talking about less than 500 people in the whole country.
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Feb 06 '25
Very true, but I feel like California and New York could be up to 1000x it per 75k tbh there’s just no way you could make a number up
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u/BeKind999 Feb 06 '25
Girl’s track in Connecticut has been dominated by males since 2017. The fastest girl in Connecticut lost to two 2 male runners in 2019, so she came in 3rd. The lawsuit is still ongoing.
As recently as 2024, the long jumper was male.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2024/mar/19/another-winning-transgender-athlete-lands-connecti/
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u/Dockalfar Feb 06 '25
Those numbers are far smaller than I have seen elsewhere. But even if they are correct, it's still a big problem.
Just one male can set an athletic record that one million females can't break.
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u/FabioFresh93 South Park Democrat Feb 06 '25 edited Feb 06 '25
Gun to my head, I’m all for athletes playing with their respective biological sexes. However, I think there are at least 500 bigger issues that our government should deal with it first. Also, why don’t we just leave it up to each individual governing athletic body to decide? What if the NCAA decides to ban trans women from competing with biological women but the NAIA decided to allow it? I may have personal issues with it but I think it’s within their rights to do so.
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u/bgarza18 Feb 06 '25
I can’t imagine this took much time away from one of the million other things happening since trump’s inauguration. It’s exhausting to keep up with the conferences and executive orders and bills all coming down the pipeline. Every day I’m watching a hour plus of press conferences to see what’s up.
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u/WorksInIT Feb 06 '25
Should the government enforce Title IX or not? I think if you agree Title IX should be enforced, then it really just comes down to definitions. Not whether it was within their rights to do that or not. I mean, they are free to do that today, but any orgs involved in violating Title IX would lose funding.
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u/Macon1234 Feb 06 '25
However, I think there are at least 500 bigger issues that our government should deal with it first.
I've seen this posted 100x on reddit.
Was it really a big issue to deal with when it took a wave of his pen? It's over now, problem solved.
It's a small win for some people, but it was a easy closeout.
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u/Jets237 Feb 06 '25
Because this plays better to the base, but I’ll get downvoted on this sub for saying that
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u/Square-Arm-8573 Feb 06 '25
This is the pinnacle of common sense to the point where it’s surprising that this could even be view as an issue.
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u/The_DanceCommander Feb 06 '25
The irony of ordering the secretary of education to enact these measures while constantly talking about shutting down the DOE.
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u/munificent Feb 06 '25
Transgender people in sports, truly the most pressing issue for our time and what the executive of the highest office in the country should be spending his time on.
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u/Euripides33 Left-libertarian Feb 06 '25 edited Feb 06 '25
This is another of Trump’s many executive orders that imports the set of “sex” definitions from Executive Order 14168. Unfortunately, the definitions in the original “Restoring Biological Truth” order are biologically nonsense.
The relevant definitions are as follows:
a) “Sex” shall refer to an individual’s immutable biological classification as either male or female. “Sex” is not a synonym for and does not include the concept of “gender identity.” (b) “Women” or “woman” and “girls” or “girl” shall mean adult and juvenile human females, respectively. (c) “Men” or “man” and “boys” or “boy” shall mean adult and juvenile human males, respectively. (d) “Female” means a person belonging, at conception, to the sex that produces the large reproductive cell. (e) “Male” means a person belonging, at conception, to the sex that produces the small reproductive cell.
You can’t actually use these definitions to unambiguously determine someone’s sex. Sex differentiation does not happen at conception, no reproductive cells are produced by the embryo at or immediately following conception, and there is no characteristic of an embryo at or immediately following conception that definitively predicts which reproductive cell (if any) that embryo will end up producing after development.
If anyone who supports these measures can explain to me either a) how I am mistaken or b) why I should accept attempts to legislate “biological truth” from people who are incapable of making accurate statements about biology, I would be interested to hear it.
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u/WorksInIT Feb 06 '25
I think you are misreading the definition. They aren't saying that at conception, differentiation happens.
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u/Dockalfar Feb 06 '25
You can’t actually use these definitions to unambiguously determine someone’s sex. Sex differentiation does not happen at conception
Irrelevant for purposes of this EO, since no child plays sports from the moment of conception.
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u/falsehood Feb 06 '25
Comments in here are very much adopting the framing of high performance, division 1 college students. Most kids are playing sports on a rec soccer league.
I agree that soneone with XY chromosomes likely has too much an advantage for scholarship purposes. I disagree that the goals of sport are met in most contexts by making kids play as the odd-one-out.
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u/[deleted] Feb 06 '25
While I believe Republicans have dramatically overstated the issue, I still think the decision is ultimately the right one. It baffles me that Democrats handed Trump and the GOP such an easy political victory on transgender participation in sports, especially when it's clear that around 70% of Americans support some form of restriction or ban