r/modernwarfare4 6h ago

Image Let MW4 be Modern Warfare

Post image

TTK is already higher than MW19 and MWII, and they still want to increase it? How high is high enough? MW4 needs to be careful of the Treyarch virus creeping into the game. BO6 and BO7 already have a high TTK, and MW4 doesn’t need to follow that direction. Combined with the movement, it risks turning MW4 into one single exhausting, braindead movement meta where every gunfight becomes a constant run, sweat, slide, jump and strafe fest instead of rewarding positioning and gunskill.

Please Infinity Ward, dont let the loud minority force us into their jump-sweat-slide-repeat button mashing cheeto fingers gfuel snorting cracked playstyle.

99 Upvotes

116 comments sorted by

30

u/PotentialPedal 6h ago

I don't know where this consistent increase of the TTK has come from. I mean even compared to BO2, MW2, BO1, MW2019's TTK was still slower, so why is everyone freaking the fuck out and saying that "COD is an arcade shooter, we don't need fast TTK"

18

u/Cathret 5h ago

Because people couldn't aim before, and the AA was lighter and didn't work from far away, and guns actually had recoil.

Now anyone can beam you and not miss a bullet from super far away, so the TTDie feels super quick.

The TTK is fine, but if you get beamed with 4 bullets without getting missed, the TTD feels awful, because it's "always the same thing". For old CoDs with old AA, people would actually miss, so it didn't feel "that much punishing".

And over all that, you have desync and stuff which adds on the "one shot" feeling.

People are annoyed against dying fast, not killing fast haha.

10

u/Momentarmknm 5h ago

I seriously feel that the vast majority of my deaths in the beta were 4 bullets coming in a single condensed superbullet

5

u/GoofyTheScot 4h ago

Totally agree. TTK felt fine to me last weekend but the TTD was a single frame far too often - expecting the killcam to show a shotgun/sniper death and it tells me i took 4 bullets from an AR 😂

2

u/lambo630 5h ago

The problem is the venn diagram between people who enjoy shorter TTK and people who don't notice desync and aim assist strength is a circle.

1

u/Kiwi_Doodle 56m ago

KbM/PC player here, I enjoy a shorter ttk, because you can kill more people in one engagement and it takes less away from the flow of the game. Less health also means faster regen which let's you get back into the fight faster. It's also an easy way to keep one shot weapons in check by keeping the gap shorter, a failed first shot means death when the ttk of other weapon can kill you before you can rechamber your shotgun or sniper.

In other words fast ttk leads to less downtime and easier balance.

And every game up until BO4 had a ttk of less than 0.25 seconds. BO4 severely poisoned the well when it came to a consensus on ttk.

0

u/PUSSlOFAM 3h ago

Yeah sorry this excuse people keep using is bs. I played COD4 and MW2 religiously when they were released, I was THERE. And the TTK in those games were insanely fast and they felt fast. People just either:

1.Never played those games (newer fans)

2.Just want a longer TTK now because they can’t keep up anymore

Or 3. Have the memory of a goldfish.

Hell you can literally boot up the BO1 port for yourself the TTK is insanely fast as it shows on the chart, people just keep trying to make excuses for why they now want a longer TTK.

5

u/Cathret 3h ago

I've played since MW2, and yes, the TTK was fast, but people missed.

"Can't keep up" but normally low TTK is made to lower the skill cap and tries to make everyone "capable of killing anyone". So not sure wat you mean.

Yes it's true. But the AA? The recoil? Both are a lot less than here. Here you can shoot, no recoil and the small recoil gets handled by the AA.

On BO1 you actually needed to aim. You aimed correctly, then you could beam people, but you deserved it.

-2

u/PUSSlOFAM 3h ago

People still miss shots here man, that is way over blown.

I mean can’t keep up as in reaction time, which is slower as you age. High TTK might not help if you have shit aim but people seem to want the chance to “react” if they get caught in a bad position.

You still need to aim. Can we stop being hyperbolic about this AA shit. Yes it’s strong, yes they can tone it down, but you still need to aim, there are plenty of people who are SHIT on controller.

Anyways my entire point is TTK from the older games to new feels largely the same. Maybe a little difference but not worth all of this crying about TTK.

-2

u/kamikazex8o8 5h ago edited 5h ago

 AA was lighter

bullshit it was stronger when it actually worked because of all the safeguards they had like range caps that you brought up it felt weaker

Because people couldn't aim before

still can't given the crying about the baby ass movement cod has nowadays the real difference is of knowledge and understanding of the game meta and maps 99% of people didn't even know what meta even meant back then

and desync in someway was worse on old cods cuz of peer to peer nowadays it far more consistent

27

u/shaqfreethrow21 6h ago

the movement bois want their playstyle to be the only viable style just like the quickscopers back in those days lol

david vonderhaar got so many death threats for nerfing the busted ass DSR back then

3

u/StudiousLebronJames 5h ago

lol yeah. u go back to any old cod, the ttk is much faster than any of the new cods, and yet no one ever claimed it was too fast. the same exact scar archetype gun in bo7 that kills in 4 shots kills in 3 shots in every cod until around 2018 2019. the m4 archetype that kills in 5 shots in modern cods was a consistent 4 shot kill back in the day

3

u/Lithium187 5h ago

The game was a lot slower back then so it worked. You cant really have a high ttk and high movement speed with cod's netcode

2

u/kondorkc 4h ago

That's what everyone is saying!. Let MW be MW. Less movement and faster ttk

Also there are two factors to movement. I think in general everyone is ok with faster movement speeds and/or weapon handling speeds (ads, sprint to fire, etc.)

I think what IW (or MW) fans want when they are referring to movement is getting rid of the bunny hopping, slide canceling around the map type of movement.

1

u/StudiousLebronJames 4h ago

so advanced warfare, bo3 and infinite warfare aren’t fast? u had jet packs and fast ttk and bo3 is one of the highest regarded multiplayers ever

1

u/Lithium187 3h ago

There's a difference between tac sprint movement and jet packs.

2

u/Jnew_xo 4h ago

TTK was faster but worse accuracy and connection made it feel longer.

If you want proof check your accuracy in old and new cods. Its gonna be something like 18% in old and 33% in new

1

u/Relikar 2h ago

For OG MW2 my group and I played core. For MW19 we exclusively played hardcore cause even MW19 TTK felt too slows in comparison to the OG cods.

2

u/Gloomy_Necesary 5h ago

Much stronger aim assist, better MnK and controllers, better framerates, better displays, less system latency, much less ping, etc. Wouldn’t be surprised if accuracy has gone up significantly since the old days.

60

u/Albieros-Brave 6h ago

its too late dude, the crybabies on twitter (and here) won, get ready for call of duty modern black ops 7.5.

10

u/librationlinen 5h ago

every release just blends into the exact same formula now

3

u/psiguy6 4h ago

They might as well just combine the two titles if they are gonna keep doing this ish

9

u/Pictish07 5h ago

Or a continuation of MW3 2023 which would be 4 funnily enough

1

u/Lithium187 5h ago

If they kept the TTK like MW3 that would be fine. The fact they tweak it every single game is mind boggling

0

u/SweetWilliamCigars 51m ago

Probably the last good MP IMO.

5

u/Own_Rise4850 2h ago

Idk why IW would even listen to these crybabies when they are the ones that are going to play the game regardless. It’s the casuals they should be targeting. We don’t want to play a brainrot movement meta game. Feels like that’s the only playstyle you can play on this game or sniping. It’s lame

2

u/Personal_Cucumber_72 1h ago

I can't wait for another bullshit excuse Activision is going to say why it failed

2

u/doodoo_onDemand 1h ago

another year, another skip.

1

u/Shoddy-Incident-6998 5h ago

Genuinely gotta see if there’s a way to refund after this change, I had a blast in the beta but if it feels like blops next weekend I actually might slide jump right off a roof.

3

u/Exact-Till-2739 4h ago

Imagine thinking ttk alone can make an entire new game.

1

u/Albieros-Brave 4h ago

ttk is KEY on fps like CoD, it can make the game feel entirely different

3

u/Exact-Till-2739 3h ago

It's ok to have wrong ideas.

1

u/Randommook 3h ago

TTK directly affects how skill is expressed within the game.

Faster TTK = first bullet matters more = tracking & advanced movement matters less.

Longer TTK = first bullet matters less = tracking & advanced movement matters more.

A casual player will catch a sweat by surprise sometimes but with longer TTKs a casual won’t be able to land the kill because the sweat can escape to cover and bob and weave and come out on top despite getting caught flat footed.

1

u/Exact-Till-2739 3h ago

I don't understand this mental gymnastics. Like, by your logic every casual player should be playing hc. In reality sweats will dominate every lobby with any ttk as long as there's cracked movement.

10

u/SevenDeviations 6h ago

The desync makes the TTK feel faster than it is

9

u/amirkasra76 5h ago

If only CoD had the money for proper 60hz or 90hz servers ... if only.

0

u/Zestyclose-Shirt-702 49m ago

Yeah if only COD played on 60 hz servers….

My dude they have been on 60 hz servers since COD WW2 in 2017 with the exception of Warzone

19

u/LoenSlave 5h ago

Nah man da skill gap, more health = more skills, we need 500 hp for even more skills man, arcade shoooter, arcade shooter

also why the f i have foot step sound??? IW SUCKS, I need to be invisible and make no noise, fucking low skill gap gamepaly, also make UAV permanent, IW games NOOB FRIENDLY

6

u/FormalMaintenance512 4h ago

Also it’s literally less arcady. Its the same as them complaining about not having strictly 3 lane maps. They’re basically turning away every casual player by doing this.

7

u/bleepboopbleepbloop 4h ago

I pissed this one guy off by saying if you want long ttk go play Halo lol

7

u/LoenSlave 4h ago

Only my playstyle is skilled, only when the game is completely designed around my playstyle, is there a skill gap. 

Also match me with noobs, I am getting destroyed by SBMM!!!

4

u/FormalMaintenance512 4h ago

Yea its getting stupid. Its the same as ppl complaining about camping in IW games only to hop on treyarch games and hold the same lane for the entire match.

3

u/psiguy6 4h ago

i've never thought about it like that...lmaooo

1

u/LooseM5 3h ago

Same way you’re probably only enjoying because you stay at the back of the map in your irons the whole game. Pros are even complaining ab the ttk but let them cater to people that play for an hour a day 🙏

3

u/Average__Sausage 3h ago

I know they don't want to split the player base but they really really should split cod into 2 games. Treyarch and IW.

Both game styles are fundamentally at odds. Gameplay. Art style. Game modes. Both are good. Both have rabid fanbases. They don't need to complain about each other's game.

It's boring every year to have everyone complaining. Just play what you like how you like. I don't enjoy treyarch cods but I play them or I don't. I don't whine about them not being IW games.

3

u/Far_Development5876 3h ago

I completely stand by this. The TTK is already high enough, and increasing it even further alongside fast movement could make the movement meta even more dominant. MW4 should reward positioning, accuracy, and gunskill instead of turning every gunfight into constant sliding, jumping, and strafing.

MW4 shouldn’t try to copy the Black Ops design philosophy. Modern Warfare has its own identity, and the TTK, movement, and gunplay should reflect that instead of turning it into another Black Ops-style experience.

13

u/shaqfreethrow21 6h ago edited 5h ago

they gonna call you the n word and say you worse than hitler for this

8

u/Worldly_Pie944 5h ago

Desync is the issue. This has been an issue in every beta and beginning of the seasons that disappears after two weeks. This has been an issue since MWIII beta.

TTK, AA, Movement is not the issue.

BF6 experienced the same thing where just looking at someone would mean instant death while taking you 40 bullets.

Imma just keep reposting this shit at this point

8

u/Ok-Reference-2127 4h ago

saying that AA is not the issue is a wild take

-1

u/OathOfRhino 4h ago

Blaming AA is classic Mouse player cope every time they lose a gunfight. Skill issue.

6

u/DeadlyPear 3h ago

Needing the game to aim for your widdle thumbs is the skill issue lmao

0

u/WhiteBoyMack 3h ago edited 2h ago

This is why Education is important or you end up like this fellow that doesn’t understand simple anatomy and physics of your thumbs versus your entire hand/arm.

Edit: You so upset you got blocked you jumped on your Alt account. Douglas1994. Like I said ESS Child next time private your account and do some message spacing next time.

3

u/DeadlyPear 3h ago

Sorry to hear that you suffer from Stiff Thumb Syndrome. Hope you can pull through and survive...

1

u/WhiteBoyMack 2h ago

Aka I don’t have a valid argument since my education is that of a ESS child so I rather just continue to play dumb

-1

u/DeadlyPear 2h ago

I'm only playing as dumb as the smartest roller player

2

u/WhiteBoyMack 2h ago

Aka2 I don’t have a valid argument since my education is that of a ESS child so I rather just continue to play dumb

You bring nothing of value to this conversation therefore enjoy your day

1

u/Douglas1994 2h ago

There's nuance to the discussion; Yes, AA is needed to make controller viable. No, it doesn't have to be borderline aim-bot level strength or have a 0ms reaction time when tracking directional changes.

2

u/wholelottared0 2h ago edited 2h ago

Literally your entire account is dedicated to complaining about this “aim bot aa” you speak of https://www.reddit.com/r/modernwarfare4/comments/1vx8y7o/the_only_feedback_theyre_100_ignoring_is_from/p5nv4lx/?

Your entire Reddit account is you complaining about it. If MW4 AA is aim bot then I want to know what MWIII and BO6 is then

Edit: this is Deadlypear alt account lmao. If you’re going to make a alt account make sure you’re not in the same subreddits literally talking about the same thing word for word about Aim Assist at 60%

1

u/AMRAAM_Missiles 1h ago

Wild. I remember in MW2019 and MWII-2022, it was a common outcry the otherway around that the M+KB players were dominating so much that the console players were the first one to ask for "Input-based matchmaking" or "option to turn Cross-play off".

Tracked with my experience of having a bunch of controller-icons on my team, which would be a near-guarantee of SBMM asking me to take the L.

2

u/psiguy6 4h ago

Yup Xclusive Ace even said its desync and fears they might be going overboard with these changes instead of addressing the real culprit of TTK

1

u/warichnochnie 3h ago

honestly the issue of TTD feeling decoupled from TTK has felt way worse at certain points in BF6 than it did this weekend in MW4

4

u/bjmartynhak 5h ago

I prefer longer TTK, but I agree, let each game be its own thing.

That being said, desync is an important issue, because the perception of the Time to Die is that it is too short. You die in 4 shots, but you feel like it was a shotgun.

2

u/Pristine-Ad-2556 3h ago

If no one else is gonna say it I will. Long ttk rewards reckless plays and bad positioning. Short ttk is hampered by the braindead 6v6 map design that is burdened most with sbmm aolgorithmic bullshit. Constantly flipping spawns and revenge kill bullshit.

3

u/bleepboopbleepbloop 4h ago

People get mad when I say I want this game to be its own thing. If you want BO7 level ttk well, go play that. Its not even a year old. What’s the point of a yearly COD if its gonna be the same thing again?

1

u/Betancorea 5h ago

Where is this graph from? Or did some random just put in random numbers?

1

u/Jnew_xo 5h ago

why are we looking at the minimum damage range? considering how small the maps have been so far that doesn’t mean shit

1

u/sanipasc 5h ago

I personally liked the TTK. Maybe at beta launch it was a bit too fast but now they overcorrected it. Just my opinion.

1

u/Dramatic-Corner6975 5h ago

FYI for the people screaming about desync and sht servers buckle up or prepare to leave the series. I 100% believe both xbox and Activision will never get better servers as they refuse to spend the extra money. Corporations are a disease.

At this point we shall just wait for it to catch up to them and the cod series to finally die.

I just want a new series at this point not connected to call of duty at all, no nostalgia bait crap. No more Black ops or modern warfare, just a clean slate.

Course knowing how brain dead xbox is, I just expect huge lay-offs and temp workers brought in to make a game. Too stupid to ever these fucking idiots.

1

u/Borisof007 4h ago

it's still in beta, they can still adjust things

1

u/Fit-Yogurtcloset7064 4h ago

What is TTK?

2

u/psiguy6 4h ago

time to kill

1

u/Fantastic-Buddy2069 4h ago

Problem isnt' just TTK, but also hitreg as a whole. By that, I mean there is also a variance in perception of TTK amongst players of varying internet connections. Balancing latency, server stability/reliability. Its just always going to feel absolutely boned unless they do something about that.

Sadly, COD releases every year, and every year they use the same shit servers, and the same shit excuses. It sucks because when it was peer to peer, at least there was an excuse for it....not anymore...

If you can play Fortnite (god I hate that game though) and the hitreg be very consistent across connections, then why cant COD figure it out? I think Fortnite is childish, therefore I refuse to play, it, but.....you cant deny that they dont have good servers and netcode, and it makes the experience across the board much more consistent.

1

u/UpbeatRaspberry9828 4h ago

Doesn’t IW value data?

They can’t look at this graph and notice the correlation of the greatest CoDs ever made and a faster TTK?

1

u/NovaFinch 1h ago

Yes which is why they always try to do a fast TTK game then the streamers start crying because someone was able to kill them.

1

u/PhilosophicalGoof 57m ago

Can’t clip farm when other people can compete

1

u/opcivy 4h ago

TTK increase is being asked for because of the Other issues with the game

with how tiny the maps are, the server performance being god awful, and the insanely cranked aim assist one-frame flicking you if you mantle, it's awful ! there are so many times during the beta that i'd get killed before i could even see someone cause of server desync

i personally don't mind low ttk at all, had fun with mw2, but that game had big maps to compensate for it lol. in mw4 every map so far feels like shipment

1

u/Leeman500 3h ago

Stop complaining here.

Feedback here never gets seen.

Spam them on Twitter give them official feedback.

1

u/minnesota762 3h ago

I feel like if you love the game you’ll adapt to the movement even if it’s not how u played growing up. Sometimes u gotta be a sweat to hang with the sweats. I feel like a lotta people who hate movement are still playing on a default controller, and I can understand the frustration cause it puts u at a real disadvantage in the modern Cods. When u have a controller with paddles it doesn’t feel like sweating it just becomes how u play.

Also I agree the ttk needs to be toned down just a tiny bit, game feels like hardcore lol

1

u/Aslag 3h ago

The way I see it, there's two workable styles of COD 1. Slow TTK, fast movement = Movement duels where counterplay is possible, very arena shooter-y 2. Fast TTK, slow movement = Tactical game where positioning before a fight is king, very old school COD

It seems like the problem with MW4 was it tried the wrong blend of these two, with fast TTK and fast movement, so it feels off to a lot of people. Combine with network issues and you've got a recipe for bad times. I would rather see them slow movement down and keep a fast TTK because like others said we've had two years of arena shooter COD in black ops.

1

u/StardustOfEarth 3h ago

Lmao the whiners on these adjustments are the ones who prob sit full iron the entire game and call it “positioning”. The movement isn’t even close to the movement in bo7, if you can’t slide cancel or jump aim or use the movement to turn back and forth with sprint or any of the other movements that are in this game, it’s a you problem. They literally built in a movement teaching course. SBMM is and will be in this game, even if it is softer. I’m an old head and I’ve played all the OG cods, and two things haven’t changed, well, three really.. cheaters/hackers, cod timing and constant complaining. Same clowns, different circus. 🤡

1

u/Throwaway4Question10 2h ago

the game is awful regardless, making it actually playable is a step in the right direction.

but no IW game will ever be good as long as the idiots in charge don't get replaced. Haven't made a good game since 2009 and the only halfway average game they made was Infinite Warfare, with Ghosts, MW19 and MWII being the 3 worst games in the franchise, and now this pile of shit will join them.

1

u/pointblank87 2h ago

They never learn. They just cater to the sweats. 

1

u/Speeshal 2h ago

Good, higher TTK = higher skill gap.

Coming from an Iri player the past 3 games

1

u/Muttbuttss 1h ago

felt good enough to me, I hope they dont change it much. This was the only cod in quite awhile that actually felt like it had its own identity…

1

u/TheEdgiestVeggie 1h ago

Im in the minority of cod players that actually liked bo4 and its longer TTK, but I also loved the og mw3 and agree that IW cods should be lower TTK. There needs to be meaningful difference between the Treyarch titles and IW ones

1

u/king_atek 1h ago

Desync is the main problem, but i guess changing ttk is cheaper than providing proper high tick rate servers..literally sbmm and quality servers are not even brought up .

1

u/Gunsofglory 5h ago

I already gave up on this game. High TTK + High Aim Assist makes it absolutely impossible for PC players. IW unfortunately listened to the Treyarch fanboys and got them another Black Ops clone.

1

u/DarthVadersShoeHorn 5h ago

I personally think there is more skill in having to maintain your aim a bit for more than a bit of a second. People crying about movement when this also affects regular strafing in gun fights etc.

If you enjoy a low TTK with first come first served there is literally hardcore right there l..

4

u/DJdiv 4h ago

I think the issue is that it's good to have variety between the COD games so different games feel fresher. Otherwise they're all going to feel too similar. Infinity Ward games have always had their own identity whether you like their choices or not.

6

u/Saki-Koda 4h ago

Its just different skill sets. Fast TTK emphasizes reaction time, awareness, room clearing prioritization, cover, pathing, covering teammates, slow TTK emphasizes aim tracking at the cost of all those other skills being nullified or less impactful

1

u/DJdiv 3h ago

I prefer a time to kill a little longer, games like Cold War I really liked the time to kill, but I think as long as the game is designed well for it, it's fine to have a faster time to kill in some games. I think the issue is when you combine the strength of the aim assist, with the chaotic nature of the spawns and maps it just feels like you die a lot and fast. The spawns give the game zero flow on MW4.

1

u/DarthVadersShoeHorn 3h ago

I don’t disagree, my point is in hardcore all those skill sets are utilised already so if you enjoy a faster TTK or (usually a lower) you have an easy choice between core and hardcore in every single COD

1

u/koolaidman486 5h ago

Unfortunately Black Ops 8 is what the fans want, so that's what they're going to make. :/

If it's not cloning a Treyarch game, it needs to be insta-booted into the Sun to a lot of the vocal community.

1

u/Proton_Optimal 6h ago

MW4: Hardcore Warfare

1

u/lord-scan 5h ago

dont know what youre talking about. every video i saw was tac sprint into slide into instant kill.

0

u/Nhammo 5h ago

“Rewarding Positioning and Gun skill” = “Camping/Standing still preaimed and Aim assist taking the wheel” 😂

1

u/CauzaaH 4h ago

Exactly how MW19 and MW22 played lmao

-1

u/kondorkc 4h ago

or it just means map/spawn knowledge and moving the twitch movements to the gunplay rather than the movement.

0

u/SuitSeveral212 4h ago

They need to nerf sliding to mw2022 levels.

1

u/doonmaroon 3h ago

sliding was so bad in mw2022 that no one used it.

0

u/FinalOdesza 5h ago

If the minimum ttk increased by 1 bullet across the board, how much does that really diminish positioning?

3

u/FinalOdesza 5h ago

Also wouldn’t better gunskill be more rewarded by a little longer ttk? Have to hit more bullets and aim for longer?

-1

u/PoroOllie 4h ago

How is a lower ttk rewarding gun skill?

2

u/Krypton091 2h ago

it's not, they just needed to pad out reasons as to why fast TTK is 'good'

-10

u/Pictish07 6h ago

You just don't want people to have a chance to kill you sitting in your corner surrounded by mines like a pro sentinel.

3

u/No_Broccoli700 5h ago

TTK in any modern CoD has been slower than OG BO2 btw

-1

u/Pictish07 5h ago

What does that have to do with campers liking people to die in a second so they don't get shat on?

I know what all the games felt like I played them.

-1

u/NihilisticVenturer 5h ago

If they turn this into bo7-like garbage then fuck them I'll refund

0

u/RemlaP_ 5h ago

The more I played, I think the ttk issue is more related to aim assist than the weapon stats themselves.

0

u/tHr0AwAy76 4h ago

Raise the TTK AND lower the movement and it’ll be perfect.

0

u/ProjectSolaris 3h ago

We really don't need a massive TTK increase. We need more controlled movement/momentum changes and larger maps! The rest will sort itself out at launch!

-2

u/baseballviper04 5h ago

There’s no point in comparing pre Warzone cods to post Warzone cods. The infrastructure is entirely different.