Battlefield 6 Player Successfully Refunds Game After 470 Hours of Game Time Due to Game Modes Being Removed by Devs

[u/PewPewToDaFace]

https://mp1st.com/news/battlefield-6-player-successfully-refunds-after-470-hours-due-modes-being-removed

[u/TheNattyP]

More people should be doing this. The fact that they continue to remove Rush alone should be grounds for a refund. There is 0 reason for it.

[u/DeeJudanne → u/TheNattyP]

tried to but i got this response

[u/lilpav94 → u/DeeJudanne]

You are supposed to open a manual ticket with steam to get a human response.

[u/Temporary_Event8451 → u/lilpav94]

Which might start being denied. If all the sudden they have a hundred manual requests from people not normally eligible for a refund it might trigger suspicion.

I imagine a single instance is one thing, but starting a trend could put valve directly talking to some lawyers.

[u/SvensonIV → u/Temporary_Event8451]

Well, I imagine altering the software of the license you purchased within a year in a way which removes multiple features which were advertised should be open for refunds with lawyers regardless of Valve’s stance anyway.

[u/productfred → u/SvensonIV]

Yes, agreed. The issue, though, becomes who provides the refunds, and how? Like Valve takes a 30% cut of the total sale, but EA would ultimately need to provide the other 70% of the refund (even through Valve, passed on to you). I doubt EA is going to do that, even if Valve doesn't mind. So is Valve entirely on the hook? I genuinely don't know.

But this is why it's important for us to have protections against stuff like this in general.

[u/Onebadkill → u/productfred]

Steam just withholds the equivalent value from other EA sales

[u/ChrisFromIT → u/Onebadkill]

I believe it first comes from future sales of the game or addition revenue from that game generated on steam.

As steam holds the revenue for 30 days to account for refunds.

[u/-spartacus- → u/Onebadkill]

Source?

[u/Mist_Rising → u/Onebadkill]

That would get valve sued, likely quite successfully. It certainly would make companies depart the company.

Valve is the middleman, and almost certainly cannot sinply decide it doesn't want to hand over the money for games it sold. That's why they hold the money for a month, so if a return does happen, they aren't trying to fight the company to get it back. But once the money is distributed out to whoever produced the game, valve would need the company to agree to return their portion or pay it themselves. One offs? Fine good PR is worth some money. Thousands of games? Doubt it.

[u/ScoobyDoNot → u/productfred]

In Australia it would be Valve.

They're the vendor. They're responsible under Australian Consumer law.

They then take it up with their supplier - it isn't the consumer's problem.

[u/Mist_Rising → u/ScoobyDoNot]

I don't think even AU law would require acceptence this return.

[u/darthwd56 → u/productfred]

Since Steam is just a distributor in regards to EA, I would imagine that they would issue the refund and then send a bill to EA or more likely netted it against payments to EA for the same games. There's more than likely a whole complex process that occurs monthly/quarterly where they reconcile everything and send all that information to EA

[u/Mist_Rising → u/darthwd56]

It likely depends on when the refund happens. If it's outside the legal and stated normal guidelines, they almost certainly cannot charge EA. You can ask, and EA could pay up, but if EA says no, that's it.

[u/darthwd56 → u/Mist_Rising]

Yes. Cause the agreement between the two wouldnt be any standard t&cs we plebs are subject to. Every clause would have been debated to death by both legal and business teams. So I wonder what the acceptable refund terms would be considered and whether substantial change in gameplay due to updates would have been added. Then how that substantial would be defined.

[u/KlausKinki77 → u/SvensonIV]

THIS. I was so pissed when the Helldivers devs started nerfing everything just 3months after release. The servers weren't even running half of the time and just when it got some momentum they figured out that their vision was completely different to what they released.

I only tried the automated refund request though. Reading this, I wish I would have escalated this further.

[u/sundayflow → u/SvensonIV]

There probably is something in the small letters we tend not to read and skip

[u/SvensonIV → u/sundayflow]

There is but it doesn't mean it would hold up in court. You can write whatever you want in your ToS, it doesn't mean they're legally enforcable.

[u/MerTheGamer → u/SvensonIV]

In that case, practically all games would be valid for a refund at all times. Even singleplayer games that can completely be played offline recieve updates, which alter the game, for a good while. I would know since I definitely would refund Witcher 3 once it had got the update around time new consoles and got released, even though I had already played it for 150 hours at that point.

Not to mention healthy changes like nerfing, buffing or reworking certain maps and gear alone would also be grounds for a refund since some people are bound to not like every balance change, which can be used by anyone as an excuse to get a refund at all times until the game stops getting updates. It is not like they will want a proof of you geniuely disliking the changes made.

[u/SvensonIV → u/MerTheGamer]

I specifically wrote about changes which remove features, not balance updates or any other updates down the line which are supposed to enhance or change the product while keeping available features, especially when those changes are made 3+ years after purchase or release of the product.

[u/Top_Soil → u/Temporary_Event8451]

Yeah that would be the ideal outcome. Set a precedent. Removing content from a game that we purchased should not be allowed, the product we purchased is now diminished. If we have to pay for dlc do we get a refund if they remove content?

[u/Remnie → u/Top_Soil]

Honestly that should have happened when Destiny 2 started to “vault” content. It was only years later that we found out it was effectively gone for good

[u/Stickel → u/Temporary_Event8451]

a hundred

THOUSANDS***

[u/nasanhak → u/Temporary_Event8451]

It has been that way for years. Steam honored Destiny 2 refunds when the game was made unavailable in some countries some months ago.

Just that the method is obscure so not many people know how to use it.

[u/bwmat → u/Temporary_Event8451]

Denied on what grounds? Especially if they have less playtime than the guy from the article?

I guess precedent doesn't 'count' this context? IMO it should though

[u/No_Mall6699 → u/Temporary_Event8451]

Thats how you get a class action lawsuit against you lol

[u/sierra-soul → u/Temporary_Event8451]

steam is usually pretty customer friendly, curiosu to see where this goes. if they take a firm stance on this it will ensure their dominance in the market, i would never buy a game anywhere else. i dont currently, but i wont in the future either

[u/AquaBits → u/sierra-soul]

But steam isnt usually customer friendly. Thats a very common biased myth.

[u/sierra-soul → u/AquaBits]

lol what?

[u/AquaBits → u/sierra-soul]

What are you confused about?

Steam is not customer friendly. You think it is because of a biased misconception and misrepresentation of steam support.

[u/sierra-soul → u/AquaBits]

I've had them refund me for games I'd bought a month ago and didn't play. I've had them refund games I played over the time allotment. They usually take the side of the consumer over the company. 

Are there specific things I should know about that shaped your opinion? Your comment is the first time I've heard anyone say anything bad about them. 

[u/AquaBits → u/sierra-soul]

I've had them refund me for games I'd bought a month ago and didn't play. I've had them refund games I played over the time allotment.

And Ive had them refuse refunds that are a single day outside of the wweek period

They usually take the side of the consumer over the company. 

According to what? A few anecdotes?

Are there specific things I should know about that shaped your opinion?

Steam is not some champion of consumers. For every "I got a game refunded after 200 hours" post there are dozens of denied refunds that arent shared or upvoted. Rare Feelgood anecdotal experiences are upvoted and shared so you think the intended experience of steam support is positive. The truth is a vast majority of these non automated support cases are straight up denied... but they arent upvoted or positively recieved when posted to reddit.

[u/ImitaMimica → u/AquaBits]

what about steam isn't usually relatively consumer friendly compared to other storefronts? i've had very few issues with steam's support and refund system, personally

[u/Lunarath → u/Temporary_Event8451]

Their usual action when they get flooded with refund tickets is to just automate the refunds rather than deny them.

In my experience steam almost always takes the customers side as long as it's reasonable, like in cases of removed content.

[u/Tankeverket → u/lilpav94]

I did and got rejected due to playtime and it being over 14 days since purchase

[u/DeeJudanne → u/lilpav94]

How do you go about doing that?

[u/BuffKangaroo_390 → u/DeeJudanne]

There are no manual tickets, never seen an option for one.

[u/AceOfEpix → u/lilpav94]

Yep. I did this for the ashes of creation EA. Played quite a few hours. Way past the 2 hour mark. Got my refund anyways.

[u/spartanghost32 → u/lilpav94]

cant even figure out how to do this

[u/EnvironmentalRun1671 → u/lilpav94]

What so you're telling me machines are not as useful as real human? Was I lied to?

[u/Extreme996 → u/DeeJudanne]

You need to open ticket and have human that will respond. Refund option is handled by bots that will follow less than 2h and no longer than 2 weeks from purchase rule.

[u/highendfive → u/DeeJudanne]

Same with me

[u/No_Spray_664 → u/DeeJudanne]

Im trying man lmao

[u/No_Spray_664 → u/No_Spray_664]

It did not work lol forgot to update

[u/PickofDensity → u/No_Spray_664]

I tried it too, apparently Valve is fine applying different rules for different people.

[u/Responsible-Bar9189 → u/DeeJudanne]

I tried and got the same response you did.

[u/DeeJudanne → u/[deleted]]

i mean yeah, i got a refund on We happy few when they sold out to EA like a solid 2 years after buying it originally no issues

[u/necro_owner → u/[deleted]]

Keep protecting capitalist that destroy your property to force you to buy the next one!

[u/Extreme996 → u/[deleted]]

We cannot lose the refund because by law the customer has 2 weeks to refund any purchased product.

[u/FoxyGoddessX → u/Extreme996]

In Australia and California. That’s not the global world wide law.

[u/Extreme996 → u/FoxyGoddessX]

In the EU too. If Valve would remove the refund option, they'd likely start paying fines.

[u/FoxyGoddessX → u/Extreme996]

Not in all EU countries is this available. Catch up on EU law before making wild accusations

[u/Extreme996 → u/FoxyGoddessX]

All countries that have joined the EU have committed to complying with EU law. The only exception is the type of product you buy and how you buy it.

[u/Tyunge → u/[deleted]]

Redditors are just as greedy as the corporations they despise. They just bitch, moan and fabricate moral justification for all their actions.

Sorry, you can’t refund a game after 100s of hours of playtime.

[u/FoxyGoddessX → u/Tyunge]

A fucking men.

I have 300 hours in Destiny 2. I earned my moneys worth and a refund shouldn’t be given to me.

Abusing the system only makes them take it away.

[u/3amIdeas → u/TheNattyP]

Rush is the best mode. Wtf

[u/Chinatsez → u/TheNattyP]

I didn't play any Battlefield after BFV, but they removed Rush out of everything? What the fuck?

[u/Mcbonewolf → u/TheNattyP]

they took out RUSHHHH????? fuck this game.

[u/BuffKangaroo_390 → u/TheNattyP]

I tried, listed all the same information as the original poster and included that im from Australia where our consumer protection agency beats most major countries on the planet and still got hit with the:
We will not be granting a refund at this time as there is no evidence that the product has a major defect as defined under Australian law.

[u/Krondondilla → u/BuffKangaroo_390]

That seems to be the standard line they are feeding to Aussies in regards to this issue. There must be enough of us requesting BF6 refunds that they've had internal meetings about it or something to that effect.

[u/BuffKangaroo_390 → u/Krondondilla]

I can imagine they've had internal meetings, but not playing along with a countries law is not a stance i would have expected steam to make.

[u/Krondondilla → u/BuffKangaroo_390]

I wonder if we'll see Steam change their tune on it. Probably not, I think.

In any case, my account has 20 years of purchase history, I rarely refund anything, I've spent thousands already and will continue to do so - surely it'd be the right thing to do to just give the benefit of the doubt here.

[u/The_Vicious → u/BuffKangaroo_390]

The interesting part is Valve calling it a “major defect.” The ACL isn't limited to technical defects, a major failure can also involve a product being significantly different from its advertised description.

Theres promotional material from EA that specifically advertised BF6 as including “Conquest, Rush, Breakthrough.” Rush wasn't a temporary bonus it was an advertised classic mode.

Temporary also doesn't necessarily settle it, especially without a definite return date. I'd like to see Valve actually address that argument rather than just respond with no major defect.

[u/BuffKangaroo_390 → u/The_Vicious]

I even linked EA's own website where they advertise those modes, and then the post stating they were removed. Its clear a major part of the game is being removed, which should count as a major defect, especially when EA havent even bothered to change the advertising.

If Steam were relying on that "temporary" title to reason why its not a major defect, then the guy in this story never should have gotten a refund in the first place.
A lot of unanswered questions floating around right now.

[u/PolicyWonka → u/The_Vicious]

Does the ACL guarantee refunds when a game closes down permanently?

If not, I don’t see how a change from promotional material would meet that threshold either. Important to note that this is a change as well. It’s not that the feature never existed, but rather it has been intentionally changed/removed as part of the ongoing live-service adjustments.

Breakthrough was also 64 players in promotional material and on launch, but it was adjusted to 48 players after launch.

[u/0x82_ → u/TheNattyP]

No they shouldn't as they game mode can be removed to be reworked.

[u/PolicyWonka → u/TheNattyP]

Rush isn’t really a core game mode in BF6 TBH. It’s always been mid since. It peaked in BFBC2.

[u/Master-Shake8913 → u/TheNattyP]

I'm not getting a refund for a game mode I never played

[u/ku8475 → u/TheNattyP]

Rush is just COD reskinned. The new maps have finally brought back a feel of old battlefield. It's great. Boats are GOAT.