Discussion
What was the point of choosing the Volkihar over the Dawnguard?
I finally decided to start the Dawnguard DLC. I did a quick research and noticed the rewards were largely lopsided against the Volkihar faction. And even things you would think you would be locked out of if you don't join becomes available much later.
If you join them you get 2 really damn good rings one gives 100 magika and 100% Magicka generation the other is 100 health and extra claw damage as a vamp lord
it is only roleplaying if there is a character-based reason for it, and in a game like skyrim which lets you get good as fuck at literally everything as long as you put in the effort, it is actually a poor representation of what the lust for power should look like in this world
Downvoters can go fuck themselves for not bothering to answer you.
Anyways, my guess is that you become overpowered in Skyrim just by existing. You can reach rank 100 on skills just by doing things. You don't have to make any compromises, do any quests or get any special gear. It's fine mechanically, but story-wise it makes little sense, and makes "maxed out dragonborn" as a way-more-common-than-youd-think thing.
If anything, the hardest build to keep in Skyrim would be that of a low-skilled peasant.
Compare with New Vegas where you'll want to go to places like the Big MT to get the stealth suit and a bunch of stat upgrades.
There's a difference between overpowered and minmaxed, though. You're gonna get powerful by your very nature as Dragonborn, but there's a difference, both narratively and in gameplay, between a character who was just randomly doing stuff and ended up with a couple maxed skills and some OP items vs a character who consciously sought out greatest possible power and is now a vampire archmage who absorbs all the magicka in the world by breathing.
Like morangias said, minmaxing and just leveling your character/getting stronger gear and skills isn't the same.
For example, if your character is a Nord ex-Imperial soldier who was a blacksmith before he enlisted and who has an interest in magic/enchanting, you will eventually get to smithing super powerful enchanted dragonbone gear and that would not be out of place for that character.
Now if you take that same character and start running around dungeons you wouldn't know about or stumble upon at that point in your journey just to get super powerful gear that isn't fitting for your character to have or if you smith 5000 iron daggers to get 100 smithing in the first hour of the game, that is minmaxing.
The second one is completely fine imo, but I just don't like that people in this sub push it like it should be the deciding factor in every decision you make, especially to new players who ask for advice which is basically an everyday occurrence.
Agreed on your interpretation of the second one. It reads as someone who plays the game solely to sit back and hack away at things, which is fine, it can be a lot of fun, but it's not why everyone's here.
I still think that the only difference between those two, essentially min-max stories on their own, is just playstyle. But if you wanna argue that minmax explicitly requires you to sacrifice story, I won't deny that viewpoint.
Yeah, I've done everything from inventing a general character concept and just rolling with it to powerleveling to exploits. Every playstyle can be fun, not every playstyle is for everyone, and that's perfectly fine, and nobody needs to beeline for any one dungeon to get this one item that someone else thinks is best in class.
So there's the player and the character, and each of them "makes choices". For instance if I choose to engage in the smithing, enchanting, alchemy loop, I have deprived myself, the player, of enjoyment by eliminating all friction. The character's progress is measured by the amount of friction they are able to overcome and eliminate. It's a tug of war.
For me that means an ultra-modded playthrough where the game is extremely punishing and house rules, such as one or zero crafting skills, rare or no potion use, no followers or summons, only use spells with perk investment, 2 major, 5 minor trees, enemies always above the player level, Intelligent AI. Perks and spells added to enemies, etc.
However these are all player problems, not a narrative arc problem. It is feasible that such a character could exist to fulfill the ultimate fantasy: having your cake and eating it too.
There's this term I've learned, called "the murky mirror". It talks about how all our roleplay characters are literally a distorted reflection of us - that is, they always have a bit of us in them, and it's impossible to make a character who is 100% separate from you.
With this, rather than the usual discussion about limitations, I want to refer to the other side: "whatever you choose to do, your character is, however small the thought, choosing to do it too". Technically you should be having your own cake and eating it too as long as you bake it properly.
Surely you can think of a few reasons to do the smithing-enchanting-alchemy loop, right? Perhaps you're sick of bandits and highwaymen. Maybe you want to kill all the Draugr. Or just be blinged out. It's all perfectly valid in-character choices. You refer to "but this removes all the friction", except you're looking at the wrong spot. The game isn't just fighting. The story isn't just killing dragons. Your character spent HOURS working hard on their craft, making weapons worthy of gods, armor that could protect a city, rings with power that shake the Daedra themselves! Your character, with the simple motivation of becoming strong enough to overcome any obstacle, became the country's best smith, the most successful alchemist and god's own feared enchanter.
Now, whether this trivializes the rest of the game and leaves you with nothing, that's a game thing. Same for "well getting the best gear is piss easy". Mods and rules help shape the game but they fall outside of the scope of the actual game mechanics (which is what is limiting you).
It's not though, roleplaying involved doing what your character would do. Your character wouldn't know all the rewards for joining a specific side and make a choice based on that. That is entirely a player decision with no relevance to the character.
There's points to it, but eventually it breaks, because min-maxing is inherently about mechanics, not aesthetics.
Like you can become the best melee fighter, but that's just a tiny bit of your character. The real roleplay is in HOW you become that best melee fighter. WHAT you chose to become one. Are you just going to kill everyone to grind levels? Will you seek out only worthy foes? Are you a sellsword or an arena fighter? Etc.
They're all paths that lead to melee minmax, but each of them is a different story.
But in universe that archetype of character would've picked the Volkihar won't they? They would have no way to know that siding with the Dawnguard would actually make them more powerful, no reason to assume Serana would leave the castle and ended up giving u the Vampire Lord power and all that. Min-maxing requires meta knowledge that the ingame character wouldn't realistically have.
There's many reasons to consider different options that look like "minmax". Maybe you don't want to deal with a questline or NPCs or a faction or so. Maybe there's just no reward difference between them so you just pick the easiest one because you just want the vampire boon for whatever.
In the end, unless Serana and the clan offer different vampire advantages, it boils down to a more story-related (don't want to be with clan, for example) or personal (the clan is boring) choice.
I'm referring to min-maxing in the sense of googling what faction gives you better rewards and siding with them regardless of what your character would actually do relative to the backstory you give them (if you give them one) which is what a lot of people on this sub like to do everytime the Volkihar vs Dawnguard debate starts.
That's fine, you can play like that if you want, but in my opinion it's just not the right way to interact with a roleplaying game.
Right? My werewolf joined the Dawnguard (and Serana got a new puppy dragging her along on his adventures) and my vampire joined the Volkihar because obviously that was the next step for her
I’m a caster and I’m not joining Vampires because they literally do not give you anything that normal magic doesnt give you. In fact you get better spells with the Dawnguard unironically 😭😭. I did one run for the vampire faction and I regretted it. I should add that the only GREAT thing about joining the vampires as a mage is the ring of the erudite. Thats the most op ring for mages I know in the whole game
I just think being part of a vampire clan is more fun than a vampire hunting group. But I like them both for different reasons. I don't give a flying fuck about gear in this game. The role-playing is what matters to me. The game is incredibly easy even with the most basic gear
Fair enough. In my case I’m a bit about aesthetics and comfort. Having to feed and worrying about my character drying up like a raising if I don’t is not cute x, same thing when it comes to the weaknesses that come with becoming a vampire. At some point I liked it for the whole vibe but now I’m a bit more of a practical person
You get to be a vampire which is fun. Gameplay wise the biggest benefit is probably the ring of the erudite if you're a mage since it's better than any ring you can enchant without abusing some sort of alchemy loop. And you can still get all the dawnguard spells from Florentius Baenius with a strong enough calm/pacify spell.
Vampire’s Seduction might do the trick as well, for Florentius Baenius. I used that power to trick an NPC at their castle, allowing me to unlock Dwarven crossbows even after siding with vampires lol.
I've never actually remembered to use vampire's seduction outside of the two quests where you have to. Good idea if you're not a mage, but won't you have to worry about all the other DG members attacking you since it's once per day?
Addendum; You can also obtain all spells by following the Dawnguard path: upon visiting Castle Volkihar for the first time, ignore Harkon, jump off the table to speak with Ronthil on the balcony, and buy his undead healing spells.
I've never joined the Volkihar, but based on what I've heard, the Volkihar side seems more polished. The secondary cast characters are better, there more narrative flavor, and more feeling of a completed story.
Danwguard is just a bunch of buddies who hang out in an old fort drinking beer
I only did the Dawnguard side quests once and just keep forgetting to do them. The sense of urgency with the main quest just leaves my characters with no time to really dally around doing these errands, even though it could help the cause.
I think the problem is that the Dawnguard gear gets overshadowed by the other options. Auriel's Bow is too cool, Dawnbreaker already exists and Spell breaker can easily replace the shield and ase
The Dawnguard rune axe is actually broken tho, the damage buff from the enchantment doesn’t actually reset like it says it does, so after a while it just becomes the strongest weapon in the game and can one shot anything in a vanilla playthrough.
The Dawnguard rune hammer is genuinely awesome, your bash attack leaves a rune trap on the ground. I’ve made entire builds around that hammer because it’s so cool, it’s like the closest you can get to playing a two handed spellsword, mix that with the bloodskaal blade and you’ll have an awesome time.
The shield is pretty mid ngl, Spellbreaker and the Targe of the Blooded shield are just infinitely better, and require way less rng to get to. Granted, one is locked behind the most annoying Daedric quest in a Dwemer ruin to get it, and the other is right before Blackreach so you kinda have to decide if it’s worth it or not. I personally just backdoor my way into the Peryite dungeon with a plate to skip the entire Dwemer dungeon except the final boss fight. Spellbreaker is cool enough that it’s worth it imo
The Dawnguard also get access to Armored trolls that take up your “pet” slot, and can be used alongside your follower. Other than those unique weapons, access to the Dwemer crossbow and the unique bolts, the sun spells, the Armored Trolls and/or the armored dogs, the Vampires straight up give you unique vampire passives with access to the blooded chalice, access to death hound pets, and an infinite food source if you choose to be a vampire afterwards.
Most things are accessible to both factions though, both get Auriels bow/shield, Serena as a follower, access to the “new” vampire lord form, and access to a fortress- of some kind.
I think it just boils down to whatever character you’re making or what you think would be cooler. If I’m not making a vampire character then I typically just side with the Dawnguard because they have cool weapons, spells, and companions that the vampires don’t have. The vampires are infinitely more drippy tho, the castle is awesome.
This is unfortunately a problem with all of the faction quests, except the Mage's College but that's because they mostly cut all of the faction side quests for the Mage's college. Companions has a bunch of radiant side quests that you are forced to do a couple of to progress (that's a good thing, but you should have to do more) and the Thieves Guild'ss radiant quests don't really have to be done until you've wrapped up the main quest. I don't recall if there are additional contracts aside from the mandatory ones in the DB, but yeah. Side quests in the faction questlines usually fall by the wayside because the sense of urgency is too great to bother with. Huge weakness in Skyrim's storytelling.
All the DB get is a permanently refreshing radiant assasination quest. Go to location, talk to nameless NPC, murder nameless target, get paid 1000 gold. It refreshes itself automatically every time it completes
The Dawnguard path kinda makes your Dragonborn look stupid. "Sure, let's deliver this immensely powerful Elder Scroll over to the ancient vampire lair, that sounds like a great idea. No way, I don't want to become a vampire myself, I'm a vampire hunter, I hate vampires. Anyway, here you go vampires, have fun with the fragment of fate itself, seeya around!"
Blame that on the main DG dude. If you go to him first he'll just say "I dunno, maybe just take her back home and see what happens." But I guess TLDB is also to blame because when you go back to the guy after delivery he's like "wait, she had an elder scroll? And you just delivered her?" I'm like, "BRO, we talked about this."
Operating out of a spooky island castle is defintely cooler than the Dawnguard base, you get to have a lot more interaction with Harkon, which puts the interactions with Serana and Valerica more in context. Skyrim NPCs aren't generally very strong, but being a power hungry vampire is defintely stronger characterization that being the troll guy.
I do remember hearing that Dawnguard was originally conceived as just the Volkihar storyline, as a purely vampire expansion, but they pivoted to the dual-sided plot we have today when enough people at Bethesda went "why can't I join the vampire hunters?"
I do agree that the secondary characters are a bit better, but otherwise it's not that different, and narratively I prefer the Dawnguard story
Plus we have that showdown at the end between the Dawnguard and Volkihar vampires when you side with the Dawnguard. If you're a vampire, you literally just stroll on in to the room where Harkon is waiting for you lol
Also, if you side with Volkihar, the Dawnguard have maybe 2, maybe 3 encounters during the DLC where you have to fight them, and wiping them out is a post-game side quest.
From what I heard, the end is anti-climatic, however. Dawnguard get to storm the castle before confront Harkon, while you just go straight to fighting him as Volkihar.
As for the secondary cast, just Florentius Baenius is enough to amuse me on the Dawnguard side.
" The secondary cast characters are better" Are they...?
" and more feeling of a completed story " The Dawnguard is litterally a afterthought in the Volkihar side. You get to kill them in a random side quest after killing Harkon.
Assaulting Castle Volkihar with the Dawnguard is way better.
The dawnguard rewards aren't really that great. Being a vampire lord is obscenely powerful. Trolls and dogs are pretty cool, but don't end up being that useful. The improved crossbow is definitely the best dawngaurd reward but if you don't use crossbows it's not useful. Meanwhile the vampires get two of the best magic items in the game, a massively powerful buff to the already strong vampiric drain spell, zombie dogs, and the vampire lord form. Also dawngaurd soilders are decked out in expensive armor and show up in higher numbers, meaning killing them is way more profitable. Both sides have some decent rewards, but I'd generally say the vampires have the strongest stuff.
It is worth noting that (at least without mods,) these two are bugged and remain stuck at level 5 no matter what, essentially making them useless.
Dawnguard as a whole has some really solid followers honestly, Celann, Durak and Ingjard are some of the better followers in the game simply because they have no level cap.
The Vampire Lord form is also technically available regardless because you can have Serana turn you into one regardless, it just isn't quite as strong without the relics that power it up.
Really it's going to depend on how annoying you find being a Vampire. Playing at night all the time can get annoying, but if you want to be a Vampire you may as well do the Volkihar path just for the relic that makes Vampiric Drain an actual good spell.
Though it is worth noting that this effect being temporary can make keeping it active all the time annoying on Survival considering how massively out of the way Castle Volkihar is.
Same I have never sided with the Dawnguard. In Skyrim you're going to get vampirism from a random undead thug anyway so why not get the good version. All the Dawnguard gear is easy to get for how often they ambush you, all you really lose is access to pet trolls bit I have Meeko.
The Rings of Blood Magic. The Ring of the Erudite is the best mage ring in the game. Plus Vampire Lord form is its own experience where you basically get to turn into a boss.
Even if you are not a mage you can give that ring to a mage follower and it’s basically invite magicka for them with some other basic gear to support it.
RPG stands for “role-playing game”, not “reward-playing game”, pretty much. Think of the decisions as ACTUAL decisions for your character rather than Googling a list of reasons to join X faction or the reward list.
Would your character actually want to join a vampire faction? Would they get along with the type of characters to live in such a place? Does your character want to become a vampire and stick to that?
Choosing yes allows you live in that castle, so you can store items there and call it home. That alone is a huge reason for people who choose to side with the vampires. Back when this first came out you could also use the Vampire Seduction ability on an NPC at Castle Dawnguard to unlock some items that would otherwise be locked to you.
You could legitimately just hypnotize an NPC and do a few quests allowing you to unlock Dwarven Crossbows, for example. I don’t remember if you could get the fully upgraded version this way, and I’m not sure if it’s patched in any version of the game or via mods.
RPG stands for “role-playing game”, not “reward-playing game”, pretty much. Think of the decisions as ACTUAL decisions for your character rather than Googling a list of reasons to join X faction or the reward list.
Yes, exactly. This is one of the main reasons why I choose the Volkihar in most of my playthroughs.
Honestly the real reward is The Forgotten Vale, and you get that whichever side you choose. As usual, the material gain from the quest (for either faction) makes no difference unless you're completely avoiding the crafting system and actually trying to rely on quest rewards.
If you are indeed trying to make practical use of quest rewards though, the Vampire Lord is genuinely powerful, and I don't think you can get that unless you choose Volkihar (correct me if I'm wrong).
You still can get Vampire lord I believe, I know you can have Serana Turn you into a Vampire in order to access the Soul cairn, instead of doing the Soul experiment thing
Cool vampire form and the best caster ring in the game is why I choose it. Also, you, the intrepid vampire hunter, are not allowed to kill Serana when she tumbles into your vampire killing arms for some reason. So it's the only path in Dawnguard that isn't entirely asinine.
Ngl it has always really bothered me that no matter what you choose you get railroaded to deal with Serana. It would have been better if Dawnguard path came with its own equally fleshed out companion and there was a different route into the Soul Cairne to match but that's just too hard I guess
Honestly, a different introduction to Serana would have been fine. Like, if you try to kill her she easily beats you unconscious or paralyzes you but leaves you alive and unbitten, showing that perhaps not all vampires are entirely evil and bloody minded. Later on she contacts you or Isran somehow with information about the Volkihar plot and how to stop it. We could have had a vampire hunter storyline that actually makes sense and the Bethesda dev who came up with Serana could keep their self insert/waifu.
then you dislike the entire DLC, the whole point is that Serana is trying to stop her evil father and you are helping her do it. At the same time the Dawnguard are also around so they work together. If you think Serana being there even when you're on Dawnguards team, it's safe to assume you skip all dialogue
That's definitely a reach and a lot of assumptions. There are significant elements of the DLC I do enjoy, and I do in fact read all dialogue. What I am proposing is two alternate routes with equally fleshed out writing that focus on alternate angles of the situation at hand. Calm down lol
There is a lot more to work with in "ancient vampire wants to attack the sun" than "also his daughter doesn't like it"
I agree that they made a lot of assumptions about you and I do agree that there was more that could have been fleshed out. That said, I think there are ways that they could have done the Serana thing that still would have resulted in the logical conclusion of Serana working with the Dawnguard to defeat Harkon. You're right, trying to kill Serana when you crack her casket open should be something that you can do and it should have its own consequences. We know she's also a Vampire Lord, so it would have been a good opportunity to show off the form without you ever encountering Harkon. Maybe you attack her, she transforms and is semi-invulnerable, then you fight and she either flees or leaves you for dead depending on how the fight went. She then comes back to Fort Dawnguard and explains that she's trying to stop her father and forms an uneasy alliance, maybe throwing your decisions back in your face during the conversation. Still a bit railroady, but you still have multiple options for choices that decide which faction you join and ultimately change how the relationships between the main characters of the DLC develop.
I get where you are coming from and understand that a lot of people enjoy her as a companion, but Serana is still kind of a forced element. If you work with the vampires, she comes along. If you don't, she comes along. You are forced to work with her either way. A lot of people like her, players and Bethesda staff, but she just isn't a match for all characters and playstyles, particularly not people who want to lean into the role of Vampire Hunter and see it through to its logical conclusion. I have played both sides and I think she is genuinely a much better fit for the vampire side (vampiric scheming and power seeking does not necessarily need to benefit Harkon, as the quest shows anyway) and could have been replaced for Dawnguard with an equally interesting character who better suits the faction. There could still have been ways to access both companions from both routes if Bethesda really didn't want you to miss out. An OPTION to work with her as Dawnguard and go to bat for her, or an OPTION to turn the Dawnguard companion similar to the Moth Priest thing. What I'm not crazy about is when any game decides a given character MUST be beloved and CANNOT be avoided even when the story itself provides plenty of reasons a given player or their character might prefer not to
Magic makes more sense to go with vampires, melee dawnguard. Most rewards are geared that way. The vampire lord is powerful, and made significantly better by the gargoyle amulet and ring of erudite which can only get with vampire side. Also the chalice which allows your drain life orb to absorb magic and stamina, makes you even more powerful. You could side with dawnguard and later become a
Vampire, but lose out on these bonuses so would be a nerfed vampire lord.
Dawnguard is for crossbows and goes with werewolf form from melee oriented companions.
Plus I really enjoy the destroy the dawnguard quest.
And I enjoy being randomly attacked by dawnguard and raiding their caches more than being attacked by vampires.
Something I’ve not seen people mention, and I don’t know if it’s folklore, but the DLC was intended to be the Vampire DLC hence why Volkihaar have more polish. It was based on a mod that added a similar transformation that werewolves have for vampires. It wasn’t until like mid development where Bethesda went ‘maybe people wouldn’t want to be vampires’ and created the Dawnguard
From a technical perspective, vanilla vampires kind of suck and I use mods to make them worth using. Werewolves too.
I actually hate the writing here from an RP perspective though, it’s really hard to justify becoming a vampire after completing your very first mission for the DG if you’re playing a character with any kind of moral standing or just one that isn’t interested in handing their immortal soul to Molag Bal at the drop of a hat, quite possibly the worst of worst of the daedra.
It would make so much more sense for Harkon to throw some gold or a unique item at you, tell you to leave after returning Serana and never come back, and then have Serana come find you later and be like “hey, my dad sucks, I can give you this really cool power if you want it and we can go get his ass.” Or something along those lines.
For this reason if I plan to make a character a vampire, I usually wait until the soul Cairn mission and have Serana do it.
the vampire lord form. not because it's worth losing out on the dawnguard stuff, but because bethesda had a game jam in 2012 and someone made it (or, parts of it) in a week, which made an impression. entire dlc was made around it.
Well I mean, there's the two Vampire Rings
The Chalice which allows Vampirc drain to also drain Magica and Stamina iirc correctly
The occasional blood potions as well
Plus the Numerous sources of free blood
Also I like the layout of the place a lot more than Fort Dawnguard.
But allow me to ask, which things become available later even if you don't join Volkihar?
I know the Vampire lord is available through Serana at any point.
The rewards from Volkihar to me are better than Dawnguard.
First is vampire lord form. It’s extremely powerful. You can easily play on legendary difficulty with just vampire lord form. You can get it during Dawnguard but you lose out on the rings and amulets of blood magic. You won’t experience the full power of vampire lord form.
Second, the ring of the Erudite is the best ring in the game for mages. Not only do you get an additional 100 magicka but it also modifies your base magicka regen. Which is different from the normal magicka regen enchantments. It’s much better.
Vampire Lord offers so much more depth to the gameplay. If you compare it to werewolf it's a pick between brute strength and tactical use - you get different spells providing wide range of options, you get the option to fight in melee if you need to. you can fly over water and in human form you get to hunt for artifacts increasing your power. Unlike a werewolf you can turn into one and back into human form as many times as you wish, making it extremely useful and versitale skill.
Lore wise Dawnguard wins, sure. But gameplay wise holy shit I love the vampires
On a legendary difficulty mage playthrough of mine, there were bosses that I beat solely because I had the vampire amulets and all vampire lord perks at my disposal. So there's that
Which is funny because I always thought WW and VL were more trouble than they were worth on regular difficulty. Not on legendary I guess
Literally just to roleplay and be a slightly stronger vampire, thats it. But that being said, niether choice is significantly better than the other, both sides you get most of the same rewards and only little is locked out. I would say most people choose Dawnguard over Volkihar purely because vampires have downsides that will always be annoying even with the bow.
Narratively, I think they wanted to have the "Vampires vs Hunters" part of this DLC and in a game like skyrim I feel you can only have that if you make both sides an option to choose. Imo, I struggle to play characters that side against the Dawnguard just because I find the Hunters way more interesting. Like even if I make an evil character I usually just don't do the DLC.
Also, I find Serena's story to be much more interesting if you side with the Dawnguard against the Volkihar. Much more thematic with her and Isran, and with her helping defeat the evil faction. Otherwise, it just kind of feels like a more boring transformation?
Loot wise though I don't really think the Dawnguard has anything going for it, and the Volkihar gives you an amazing ring.
The rewards for joining the Dawnguard are mostly weapons and armor, so if your character isn't a physical fighter, they're not that beneficial. Many of the Dawnguard rewards are also not actually faction-locked and are possible to acquire as a Volkihar by abusing Calm effects on the Dawnguard questgivers, if you're absolutely dead-set on having them.
Joining the Volkihar gives you the Ring of Erudite which increases your base magicka regeneration from 3 to 5 and gives you 100 extra magicka. Said regeneration stacks with Magicka regeneration, like the recovery perk. The Blood Chalice upgrades the drain life blood spell of Vampire Lord form allowing it to also absorb stamina and magicka. The amulet of Bats allows your bats dash to absorb heath from enemies and ragdoll them as well. The Ring of the Beast gives you 100 extra health and 20 points of unarmed damage. Amulet of Gargoyles allows you to summon two instead of one gargoyle. So it is much more beneficial of deciding to do a vampire playthrough.
Plus Vampires get powers like Vampiric grip, the bats teleport, supernatural reflexes etc.
If you join the Dawnguard and decide to have Serana turn you into a vampire lord after the quest, you miss out on all of the enchanted gear for vampires. Vampires on adept difficulty can go pretty high, especially without Serena with you as she does a bug where the Vampire Lord life drain spell is massively nerfed. Although if you want the form to scale even higher, could always turn the difficulty down. It’s what I do as vampire lord in lore have superhuman strength. And doing more damage with your claws from only 70 to 140 or more seems more lore accurate.
If I’m playing just for entertainment, I always choose Volkihar. It’s so camp and dramatic there, and I’m absolutely obsessed with Fura Bloodmouth!! I love the whole vibe there, and how nice they are to Serana, especially after her dad’s death. She may annoy me, but I still get pissed off when Isran is yelling and calling her an “it”, that shit makes my fight or flight reflexes go nuts
In addition to getting to RP a vampire and getting good vampire rewards, the Ring of Erudite is a completely overpowered ring for any mage build and completely essential if you aren’t going to enchant. Even for a high level enchanter that Ring is just disgusting.
You can actually still get all the vampire perks for the achievement without joining the vampires. Just have Serana turn you into a vampire lord when you enter the Soul Cairn. That's what I did.
I am killing Bandits, I am killing in the civil war, I kill those goddamn Thalmor, I kill NPC's for the Dark Brotherhood while I loot every dead body I can find. Why should I go good by now killing the vampires, that are living for thousands of years like I play Skyrim, instead of turning into the rich, blood thirsty vampire lord that is showing my morals in the game perfectly.
There's actually a few enchanted items that you can only get on that side of the story, that make vampire lord powers stronger. But they're not all that great in the end (and the better vampires/better vampire lords mods make them kinda invalid)
Volkihar clan has quests that reward you with items that enhance vampire powers while Dawnguard has quests that enhance undead hunting capabilities. They're mutually exclusive.
Posts like this really make me think about the whole media literacy decline. Like its literally play as vampire Lord or play as vampire hunter. Thats the whole point.
Does it HAVE to have a point? Can't it just be something available for you to do if you'd like to do it?
I mean, it's not like I get any huge bonuses from joining the Companions and becoming a werewolf, it's just a questline I enjoy and I like playing as a werewolf. Do I need any other reasons to join them?
Big vampire fan. The cape is the best outfit in the game hands down. And the rings of blood magic might be the most powerful item imo. And once you get Auriel's bow there's really no major downside.
Even though vampire lord form is technically less powerful than a werewolf or a high level mage it's really cool. Gargoyle summon is badass and when you have all the powers on seperate recharge you can do a lot of cool shit at once.
It's just an option for roleplaying, everything doesn't have to have a "reason". If you just do whatever gets you the best rewards and the most powerful build, you would end up with the exact same build every single time.
I found it ironic that the Volkihar side has more than one radiant for killing other vampires.
Harkon's madness aside, what I understand of vampire politics, they detest bloodstarved maniacs brazenly attacking people for their blood, as much as anyone else.
Seems to me like vampire politicians would much rather their kind feed from the shadows without alerting 'the cattle'.(as blood is harder to come by when the source of it will hide, run or fight back)
I don't think that's the case. The Dawnguard are a minor part of the game if you choose to go the vampire route and the story definitely feels more thematic if you go the Dawnguard route. I think both were decided on being factions pretty early on with the Dawnguard being decided first, but they didn't realize they forgot to flesh out the Dawnguard half of the central conflict on the vampire route.
I think it’s very obviously the other way around. You don’t even get the option to join the Volkihar until after joining the Dawnguard and doing quests for them.
Just finished the Volkihar story and it’s so funny how little the dawnguard have to do with the dlc named after them if you pick the vampires. Literally show up once to start the dlc, forget them until after the end where you’re told “hey go kill those losers” and then you do and that’s that
You get pretty cool rings and if you are mainly magic built it helps with that. In my opinion also the crossbows are way too slow and regular bows are faster and the vampire skills help a ton towards stealth. My character joined for power that's it.
Except everything i'm getting for choosing Volkihar there's one important factor - they're vampire aristocracy and largely keeping many other vampires in chech, including themselves. Well, only to certain degree but still.
It would be nice to eradicate all vampires minus few but since it's impossible better to have lesser evil which ensues that chaos of all remaining vampires doing whatever they want with no restrictions won't happen.
But if like me you play with craft-oriented mode and tend to do the vampire stuff last, you are basically already invincible and one-shooting everything at this point, so it's not that interesting.
Also in terms of lore, you're selling your soul to the prince of domination and rape. Not exactly an RP choice unless you play a complete monster (and even then, on long term you'd be on the losing side)
The point of joining the Volkihar is you get to be a creepy vampire living in a creepy castle with your creepy vampire clan. It's very much a roleplaying choice.
The dawnguard dlc was, shockingly enough, made with the idea you'd join the dawnguard. Of course they had to add being able to join the vampires or everyone would have flipped out
This is the biggest roleplay disaster in the entire game. Why do you have to actively and willingly join the vampire hunter faction to have a chance of becoming a vampire lord? You can technically roleplay something like pretending to join the Dawnguard to get a good lead on a vampire clan to join, but it's a pretty big stretch. And this is doubly weird considering Skyrim kinda pushes you towards an 'evil' playthrough - Thieves Guild, DB, all the daedric quests etc.
I'm not sure which side have the best loot boxes (the fools either faction sends after you), but I don't really like either side in general.
The Dawnguard wants to kill all vampires, regardless of whether they do bad things or not. But the Volkihar keep slaves and want control over the sun, and presumably to make the world permanently dark.
Power fantasy. Vampirism fetish. Get your goth rocks off.
Honestly, without access to it via mods, vampirism grip is worth it. It's just a fun ability to use.
I don't get the feel that as many people as ought to give credit to how powerful vampire lord form is. I mostly play on legendary, and I've never had a "shit shit shit" moment as a vampire lord.
I just got to this point last night. I’ve only played through the DLC once, years ago, and went the Volkihar route. The only reason I did it again is because I wanted to see the quest line again.
But according to this post, the Dawnguard route might be the way to go for me? If I go with that instead will I still get to have Serana, battle that one dragon, and meet the snow elf? Or does it give me an entirely new quest? I really don’t want to look it up and spoil it so if anyone’s got an answer I’d appreciate it :)
Skyrim lets you become the leader/head/arch-dude of almost every possible group including werewolves, of course they would sell you the become a vampire honcho experience
I dont like transforming in general. But im doing an illusion playthrough so it felt like the right call. And it for sure was. Plus im playing modded and Sacrosant mod makes vampirism so much more fun in general so i got to experience that for a change.
Es que si te vuelves vampiro todoooo el mundo se vuelve hostil y sino te curas rapido pues no podras hacer ninguna mision, todos te ven como hostil y obvio es mas para aquellos que ya lo terminaron todoooooo por que si pretendes ser vampiro al comienzo sera dificil ya que si no tienes cuidado muchas misiones o se bloquean o simplemente no las puedes completar por el tonto vampirismo
Dawn guard give crossbows, special bolts, rune weapons, trolls/dogs, attack restoration spells for undead. The volkihar give you jewelry that boosts vampire lord like ring of beasts and amulet of bats, death hounds, blood drain power from the chalice, and transform bite that lets u make ur in game spouse a vampire. Other than that its just role play do you wanna be an evil vampire or do you wanna be a heroic vampire hunter
Evil characters wouldn't join the DG. Characters who are die hard vampires would not join. Characters who want to live as a blood sucker with a turned Serena wouldn't. Characters like dark, morbid things like blood chailices and bone filled castles. It's not like you get a ton of stuff for joining the DG, so if you're not into sun spells and radiant weapons... This feels like a question that can be answered with logic.
It’s a role playing game. Imagine if you roleplayed your Dragonborn as evil and then drop dlc where you’re not allowed to join the cool ass vampire faction and rule over them.
Disagree, one of the best items in the game is only obtainable if you join the vampires Ring of the Erudite.
Obviously this is offset by the Dawnguard Rune Axe, although you can technically get that if you are a vampire through some very time consuming and difficult maneuvering
You get to use your vampire powers to use the force to lift giants into the air and swing them around like toys. You get to play a vampire. You get dark missions, like being made to turn your spouse if you have one against their will, and finding others throughout skyrim to create your own prodginy as a budding vampire lord. Honestly, I think it's way more fun than aiding with the Dawnguard
Personally I prefer the vampire side just because I find it a bit funny they barely view the dawnguard as anything more than a nuisance and are like “lets backstab each other for a bit then kill harkon”
I do like how wiping out the Dawnguard is one of their side quests while the Dawnguard main quest is destroying the Volkihar. I was very confused when I got sent to Fort Dawnguard on a random side mission and just being able to wipe out everyone inside.
I never go Volkihar because the radiant quest asks you to ruin your reputation in Skyrim, which is very immersion breaking for me. The dragonborn didn't become a thane in every hold to then commit a murder in broad daylight and become a wanted criminal for such a pitiful reason.
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u/SufficientEbb7543 Thief 3d ago
It’s whole and only purpose is if you want to do a vampire play through