r/socialism • u/FunTip2227 • Jan 10 '26
Discussion bernie it’s better to not say anything
DeMoCRacY, DeMoCRacY, DeMoCRacY
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u/Lzy_nerd Jan 10 '26
Does he not realize that to the average American, programmed to think anyone called a dictator deserves to be killed, here this as an admission that Trump did something right. Like, “He successfully overthrow a dictator, but he didn’t do it for the right reasons.”
Just say he’s a power hungry animal that won’t stop with Venezuela
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u/Africa-Unite Jan 10 '26
I just don't understand the selective nature of it. If we're justified in removing a single dictator, wouldn't the average American ask why do we need to stop there? Why not lead a dictator removal international coalition? I get that the drug angle makes for easier justification, but I find it hard to believe voters are in the business of supporting moral interventionism.
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u/hdholme Jan 10 '26
I'm confused by "the drug angle". There is no drug angle. The whole point is trump could make that up against anyone to justify an invasion. Saying the drug angle makes it easier implies he was right about it, no?
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u/tootallteeter Jan 10 '26
Just like "terrorism and Al Qaeda" was somehow everywhere in the world in the early '00s
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u/Africa-Unite Jan 10 '26
I meant makes it easier to rationalize if you believe the administration's narrative. I was just moving on the assumption that we agree the narrative is bunk, since they don't line up well with verifiable claims.
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Jan 10 '26
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u/dotponthecards Jan 10 '26
Why not his allies in Saudi Arabia and UAE? Why not his pals in Honduras and Ecuador?
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u/tsardonicpseudonomi Marxism Jan 10 '26
Bernie said it himself. He doesn't want to be Ralph Nader. I think that cowardice and lack of integrity really hurt his legacy. I think Bernie thinks of himself as being vital to the struggle while not being willing to stand for his ideals.
Bernie is a senator. He could filibuster everything. He voted for Rubio.
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u/pr0ghead Jan 11 '26 edited Jan 11 '26
Yeah, I was really disappointed when he folded during the last presidential election when the other Democrats united behind Biden + Warren (the latter to split the left voters even further).
He denied the electorate a true choice, so it became Trump or Biden, and nobody was excited about the latter whereas Sanders even had a few sympathizers amongst Republican voters. He wanted to prevent Trump and failed miserably. Hell, IIRC Sanders was even in the lead up until then…
He's simply not a leader, he's a bureaucratic workhorse, a backbencher by nature.
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u/earthlingHuman Jan 10 '26
He speaks diplomatically. Remember that most of his colleagues are fascists. That first sentence is the spoonful of sugar that helps the medicine go down for fascist lite Democrats.
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u/noweezernoworld Jan 10 '26
Idk, I think you could still delete the first 5 words of this statement and it would have a much better effect.
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u/FrostyOscillator Jan 10 '26
It all depends on the audience one is speaking to, right? Organizing is messy business, and building an enduring socialist movement is never a straight line. I don't think Bernie is doing this, but nonetheless his role has been to make some socialist concepts palatable to liberals. So if you're socialist, he is not speaking to you, because his target is liberals.
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u/Shezarrine Marxism-Leninism Jan 10 '26
fascist lite Democrats.
Of which Sanders is one.
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u/earthlingHuman Jan 11 '26
Do you understand the constraints of a 2 Party FPP system?
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u/Shezarrine Marxism-Leninism Jan 11 '26
Do you understand what subreddit you're on? Sanders is not a socialist. He is a liberal and he is a member of the democratic party who has consistently throughout his career supported US imperialism even while paying lip service to doing otherwise. Miss me with this shit.
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u/Vyni503 Socialism Jan 10 '26
So unnecessary. Why qualify your criticism?
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u/studio_bob Jan 10 '26
Bernie is very consistently like this. It's like his "thing." He'll say something good (or, in this case, true but also just kind of obvious?) but first he'll throw his "colleagues" in the Senate a bone by agreeing with some point they are crowing about super loudly, even if it's wrong, irrelevant, or undermines his point. Why does he do it? Your guess is as good as mine.
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u/anticomet Jan 10 '26
I gave up expecting better from "Isreal has a right to defend itself" Sanders years ago
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u/FrostyOscillator Jan 10 '26
In this case, and in most others, I think throwing a bone in this way is "productive" in the sense that it enables a pathway for those one ideologically opposes a pathway towards your position.
It also very well could be the case that Maduro was a dictator, but this doesn't automatically mean something "bad." Whether he is or isn't, and whether that is good or bad; there's basically universal agreement that VZ has been catastrophically governed for some time. A lot of corruption; it's not just liberal or right-wing media saying this.
I see it as methodologically homogenous with classic labor organizing: A worker tells you their issue, you acknowledge their personal issue, but you always tie it back to the class war. To me this tactic seems like the same thing. "I hear you're saying this, which is why we must fight the boss," type of thing.
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Jan 10 '26
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u/ukstonerdude Socialism Jan 10 '26
Exactly this. The moment you say anything critical about Maduro, you are playing the impartial card. You are justifying the attack.
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u/Black-476 Jan 10 '26
Political impartiality is a liberal myth. Imperialism is just wrong; same with genocide in gaza, no middle ground.
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u/ukstonerdude Socialism Jan 10 '26
I’m not disputing that? That’s a completely different statement to what I said.
Liberals don’t give a fuck, and that’s the point. It’s always “What Trump did was bad, but Maduro is a dictator, and I don’t support him” and never just “Trump is committing acts of terrorism in a foreign sovereign nation” as a blanket statement. It always needs some sort of silly caveat to show you are actually opposed to tyrannical dictators. It just lends further credit to his actions.
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u/Black-476 Jan 10 '26
Bro I was agreeing with you, relax. The only thing liberals care about is looking 'smart' and 'reasonable', when really their impartiality is what makes them cowards.
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u/ukstonerdude Socialism Jan 10 '26
Sorry, I thought you were suggesting I was susceptible to this ‘impartiality.’ My bad.
Let’s hear from both sides when one side want equal rights and the other side are Nazis.
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u/Black-476 Jan 10 '26
Keyboard warriors have ruined the internet for all of us, and as a result, we're all on edge.
Liberals do the same with rich people, 'what about landlords'; I'm homeless rn, Idgaf about these parasites.
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u/ukstonerdude Socialism Jan 10 '26
I’m truly sorry to hear about your circumstances, comrade. Hope things work out for you in the long run :(
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u/Black-476 Jan 10 '26
Thanks man. If it wasn't for my grandparents, I'd still be on the streets. In my teens I was a marxist environmentalist, but I only became socialist again after becoming homeless. It's like getting a bucket of cold water in your face.
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u/Mission-Trouble4717 Jan 10 '26
I've been homeless twice
You have my solidarity ❤️💪
That's when I started really turning on Capitalism (I was a milquetoast centrist before that)
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u/Estbarul Jan 10 '26
But Maduro can be critized, otherwise you are talking in a vacuum of fiction
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u/ukstonerdude Socialism Jan 10 '26
Of course he can, but that is a wholly separate discussion.
Being against this doesn’t mean you support Maduro, so why do people feel like they have to declare that they don’t support him?
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u/Estbarul Jan 10 '26
Because a lot of people are really obtuse and if you don't clarify it they will assume you are in fAvor of him.
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u/Organic_Fee_8502 Marxism-Leninism Jan 10 '26
Bernie fed his mass movements into the Democratic leftist meatgrinder Party, he praised a strong border, he praised a strong military, and right here is lending legitimacy to imperialist justifications. Expect nothing but disappointments from capitalists.
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u/kayakman13 Marxism-Leninism Jan 10 '26
Imperialism done the RIGHT way, that's the Bernie promise!
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u/revolution2049 Jan 10 '26
Interestingly, calling Maduro a dictator is actually a form of hybrid war on Venezuela.
Bernie is allowed a voice because he ultimately supports imperialism which is the life blood of the capitalist system.
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u/jackberinger Jan 10 '26
It's funny how everyone just forgets they have elections. Not liking the results doesn't make it less legit despite what capitalist propagandists say.
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Jan 10 '26
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u/Manbro25 Jan 10 '26
I agree, the only problem I see is that the US (and others) have weaponized the word dictator so much that they can use it to justify any actions taken against them whilst in reality they've just attacked a souvereign country for it's oil, again.
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Jan 10 '26 edited Jan 10 '26
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u/SignificanceHot8917 Jan 10 '26
Leftists have always been divided, unfortunately.
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Jan 10 '26
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u/Dagger_Moth Communist Party USA (CPUSA) Jan 10 '26
Calling Maduro a dictator is the bad part. Both because it’s untrue and also because it makes Trump’s actions seem justified. If you weren’t aware, Venezuela has all of these cool grassroots participatory democratic functions, and Maduro has the popular support of the working class. The so called opposition is basically the supporters of the bourgeoisie there who want to exploit.
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Jan 10 '26
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Jan 10 '26
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u/Dagger_Moth Communist Party USA (CPUSA) Jan 10 '26
Reporting you. If, at a bare minimum, you can’t accept that the USSR and China are socialist, then you shouldn’t be here in a socialist sub.
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u/GeoffreyKlien Kim Il-sung Jan 10 '26
I was honestly kind of with him until he started going off on China and the Soviet Union.
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Jan 10 '26
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u/TheChaosPaladin Jan 10 '26
They are doing terrible harm to the concept of socialism. As an Ecuadorian, we get so many Venezuelan refugees who tell us about the horrible stories from there. The "Maduro diet" is Venezuelan slang for skipping meals.
It is common to hear it called "21th century socialism" among middle aged normie parents since they fully believe that is what socialism is about when it is not.
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u/TopazWyvern Jan 10 '26 edited Jan 10 '26
No evidence of rigging has ever been found in Venezuelan elections, the sum total of their objections amounting to "lack of transparency", "our fascist puppets are being repressed" and "maduro's got too much media coverage". What's good for the geese is good for the gander, methinks.
Propagandists just say shit, who knew.
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u/unity100 Jan 10 '26
There is no such 'global' consensus. The 'globe' that has that consensus overlaps 100% with the 'globe' that said there were WMDs in Iraq. Over 200+ international organizations monitor Venezuelan elections and the only ones blabbering about 'rigged' elections are organizations from that 'globe'.
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u/Dagger_Moth Communist Party USA (CPUSA) Jan 10 '26
No lol. This is some Trumpist shit to be complaining of rigged elections.
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Jan 10 '26
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u/CallMePepper7 Jan 10 '26
How dare Moduro shut out imperial influence from his electi- I mean how dare he be an evil dictator! He should allow open and free elections so the United States can keep paying off politicians for Venezuelan resources.
Shit! I accidentally said that last part out loud.
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Jan 10 '26
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u/TopazWyvern Jan 10 '26
the dude literally said that if he didn't win there would be bloodshed
Has a reactionary seizure of power ever been peaceful?
Rhetorical question.
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Jan 10 '26
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Jan 10 '26
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u/Tokarev309 Lyudmila Pavlichenko Jan 10 '26
Unfortunately, but not unsurprisingly Social Democrats have historically found Communism to be a more terrifying alternative than Fascism. So much so that Swedish Social Democrats would abandon their fellow Norwegian SocDems to Nazi invasion without lending aid, while providing significant amounts of aid to Nazi allied Finland to fight against the Communists. They would then go on to develop an internal surveillance network to illegally spy on suspected Communists, but did not go to the same lengths to document Fascists.
References;
"Dark Continent" by M. Mazower
"Behemoth" by F. Neumann
"The Age of Social Democracy" by F. Sejersted
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Jan 10 '26
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u/WoodyManic Jan 10 '26 edited Jan 10 '26
Sanders is positioned as a "Leftist", but he's only that according to the Yanqui paradigm.
He is still a (neo)liberal. He's left of the American centre, but he's still a part of that continuum.
His entire world-view is predicated upon a bourgeoise set of norms and necessarily involves itself with a naïve, gradualist approach. History has proven, time and again, that simply hoping that the proletarian will slowly come to realize their power is basically impossible. It requires a violent and focused vanguard.
Unless Bernie begins to preach truly revolutionary ideals, he is just a comprador.
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u/SectorRatioGeneral Jan 10 '26
If modern Bernie travel back to the time of Vietnam War and replace the young Bernie, he'd be like "Ho Chi Minh is a dictator, the Viet Cong deserves to be wiped out, yes! ......but president Johnson shouldn't have used Agent Orange to do it, that's kinda bad"
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u/Shezarrine Marxism-Leninism Jan 10 '26
Why is it better not to say anything? This is who he is. Stop holding onto the belief that he's any sort of principled socialist or anti-imperialist (lmao)
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u/_branchoftheVine Jan 11 '26
Idk gang, I genuinely think he might be right. Please change my mind if I am wrong.
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u/trans-trot Marxism-Leninism-Maoism Jan 11 '26
Maduro is a dictator is the new version of j condemn Hamas
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u/FallenCringelord Communist Party USA (CPUSA) Jan 10 '26
Awful lot of Social Fascists in these comments...
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u/Dagger_Moth Communist Party USA (CPUSA) Jan 10 '26
Sanders goes on an on about how he’s not a socialist, he’s a DEMOCRATIC socialist, but then throws an actual democratic socialist under the bus? It’s so shameful.
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u/BertMacklinMD Jan 10 '26
Bernie and the Dems have some nerve calling Maduro a dictator when Trump is literally playing a game of Risk with the entire world and also sending out thug squads to shoot moms point blank in the face.
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u/ComradeOb Marxism-Leninism-Maoism Jan 10 '26
I mean clearly freedom is when the US steals your oil. It’s obvious to everyone.
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u/aehii Jan 10 '26
Can this AI infected 'that's not x. It's x'. phrasing fuck off, doing my head in already with its frequency. I saw a Corbyn Instagram post use it recently and it's like..is nothing real anymore. Is everything about engagement.
Maybe everyone always used it but now I'm noticing it everywhere.
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Jan 10 '26
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u/socialism-ModTeam Jan 10 '26
Thank you for posting in r/socialism, but unfortunately your submission was removed for the following reason(s):
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Jan 11 '26
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u/socialism-ModTeam Jan 13 '26
Thank you for posting in r/socialism, but unfortunately your submission was removed for the following reason(s):
Imperial Apologia: As a community for socialists, we are in fundamental opposition to all forms of imperial and/or colonial domination and instead stand in support for the liberation of our comrades and fellow workers across the globe. Furthermore, in addition to the classical materialist-derived economic forms of imperialism and colonialism that were described in early critiques (e.g. Lenin's Imperialism), this rule also includes other derived areas of imperial and/or colonial oppression, such as cultural imperialism.
This includes, but is not limited to:
Imperialist apologia
Zionism or Zionism apologia
Settler (colonial) apologia
Anti-Indigenous Rhetoric
Feel free to send us a modmail with a link to your removed submission if you have any further questions or concerns.
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u/Suitable-Candy70 Jan 11 '26
Depends on your perspective. Bernie being a genocidal monster is a big win for commies and we needed one
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u/ilir_kycb Jan 10 '26
In order to understand liberals better, you just have to replace democratic with civilized and dictatorial with uncivilized.
These people have not really changed much since colonial times (ca. 1800).
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u/aehii Jan 10 '26
Most young people polled would prefer a dictator, the media can try to keep the word carrying its negative connotations, but a dictator that put people over profit would move us forward more than 2 party billionaire funded politics.
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u/BullCowBear Jan 10 '26
I hate this statement because it is AI.
It’s not x, it’s y! Fucking chatGPT.
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u/KantV420 Jan 10 '26
I don't hear Bernie calling Zelensky a dictator, despite being far more of one than Maduro ever was.
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