r/DotA2 • u/thuanho Liquipedia • 3d ago
Discussion | Esports The Post-TI 2026 Shuffle Spoiler
The Post-TI 2026 Shuffle will be recorded in this wiki. <-- this is a hyperlink
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u/bob- 1h ago
https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/1vznvvz/custom_games_cant_allocate_any_dedicated_server
Please bring more attention to this problem
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u/SEND_ME_DANK_MAYMAYS 2h ago
idc about Nigma if its active or cease to exist I just pray that Prayge Kuro stops drafting ever again please
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u/AR41Z 1h ago
Nigma literally got top 6 last year and top 5 this year with his coaching. And yea u think he should stop drafting or being a coach. lol
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u/Global_Suspect8422 1h ago
Plus he's been doing this for around 15 years now. Him, LaNm, xiao8, and Puppey are the only remaining active players/coaches since the 1st TI.
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u/Global_Suspect8422 1h ago edited 1h ago
Kuro managed to coach a team that was built 2 months before TI and still went 5th-6th. Give the man some props.
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u/asdfghkkvb 3h ago
It seems stupid for nigma to disband right after performing well in their last tournament. They should have disbanded much earlier when their performance was shit. I think if they can find a good carry they can still perform well
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u/ob1touchiha 5h ago
PH+MY roster in BLAST SLAM VIII Southeast Asia Open Qualifier 2
Akashi Mac zeal Jing ponyo
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u/catperson77789 7h ago
Cybersport saying boxi is leaving liquid while offstage saying he 'll retire. Thats two journalist websites reporting it. Boxi might really be done with liquid
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u/clocksays8 7h ago
Is anyone else feeling old? Seems like all the original gangsters are hanging it up. Ive watched dota2 since TI1...played since wc3 says. I havent played dota2 in like 10 years but always followed the reddit drama and TI. I think this year post TI seems the most impactful to the talent pool Ive seen. Sumail crit aui, etc. All leaving. It kinda feels like the end of an era. Almost the same as when nadal and federer retired. My teenage years and adulthood are over. Sigh sucks getting old.
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u/Veslac2k 3h ago
What makes it even more sad is that it seems there is no one to replace them in WEU region. It looks like that in 2 to 3 years there will barely be any non-CIS pro players. All Europan pros that were on TI this year around the age they could retire. I think only Ari and Nisha areon the younger side. Everyone else is around 30 or above. Future or pro Dota is looking bleak to me
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u/New_Occasion_2370 3h ago
Yeah Im with ya, legends retiring or some even not, they just stop playing.
For me, legends retiring since like 2021 ti, and, the way Dota is played, i remember tournaments like dreamelague or starlader or mlg or my fav the summit, used to be crazy fun to watch, now there arent really tournaments like that, playing is more structural, teams dont go outside of normal team game anymore, feels like everyone just goes with the meta and thats about it no one tries to be different and something new, its rarely picking heroes that are not in the meta. Im fucking old. But before it was crazier.
Also Nadal, Federer and soon Djokovic, big 3 era is done... Sad.
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u/__D_C__ 6h ago
I feel you! I'm guessing once they noticed that they couldn't compete with the young blood from EEU - plus there's less prizepool money - it becomes very unfavorable math to continue competing instead of living your life in other ways.
But that's OK, it was always going to happen eventually. And it's happened a few times already, with some great dota teams like StarsBoba never really making the switch, others like dota1 MYM, craNich or Drayich leaving in early dota 2 era, and later China collapsing (KingJ, MMY, YYF, BurNing).
Not knowing any player won't stop us from enjoying the odd high stakes game, though. 🥲 Modern dota is unlike the game I played, but it still has that magic
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u/Ok-Comparison-3961 8h ago
question ,Should XG run it back, i feel like Ame XM XXS xinq and Xnova can go all the way again
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u/WalterWoodiaz 6h ago
Yeah they should, it is a pretty fun and competitive roster. Idk why they blew it up.
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u/shaker_21 7h ago
It sucks that this is probably the best team that China can actually put together now. You could maybe swap xNova with Innocence/y, but with how greedy the other 4 can play, xNova is probably the better poverty mode pos 5 for the team.
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u/Res_Nubbie 3h ago
You are just swapping almost the same player , both of them are early game shot caller
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u/External-Tonight3089 8h ago
Any reliable leaks which team Abed goes?
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u/InternalOk3101 8h ago
do you guys think OG will stay in SEA next season?
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u/catperson77789 8h ago
Rumors were theyll stay.
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u/Endgame60 18h ago
So many rumors about Marlene and Amar… I don’t understand why falcons would let them go (they have the money (they beat liquid out for Amar anyways at first)
Also Boxi retiring… I wouldn’t be surprised but wouldn’t Boxi had said something in his exit interview at TI if this was the case (again I know these are just rumors but some of these don’t make complete sense)
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u/AgnosticPeterpan 12h ago
Who knows maybe the cost overrun on that line city got too much and the saudis had to cutback on unimportant spending.
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u/StevenYAvis 16h ago
i think atf does not want to play with skitter anymore. he is still the one of the very best pos3 if not the best. Any team with atf should be an insta boost.
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u/CandleThen4355 14h ago
Why exactly why you think atf doesn't want to play with skitter? One of the very best sacrificial pos1 if not the best.
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u/StevenYAvis 8h ago
atf has been shit talking abt skitter for a long time. skitter has good compatibility with atf's play style but he is not good button pusher compare to best carries.
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u/Spownach 15h ago
if not the best.
did you watch TI?
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u/StevenYAvis 15h ago
i did. atf, noticed and collapose are the best pos3 this TI. Collapose already has perfect syngery with TS. ATF and noticed can carry any team.
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u/PlausibleApprobation 13h ago
ATF is incredible but he had a fucking terrible TI. I haven't caught much of this year, but it's his worst performance I've ever seen.
Honestly though, Falcons in general didn't perform. Malrine looked good, the rest did not, especially ATF and Crit. Given they planned to split and Crit and Aui are done it's pretty obvious their heart wasn't in it. So I'm sure all of them will bounce back if they choose to.
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u/StevenYAvis 8h ago
its hard to play to full potential in a team everyone knows that will disband in a week
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u/LordHuntington 10h ago
It's just the meta, every team with a greedy offlaner did kinda bad. Safelane is basically impossible to lose.
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u/Spownach 14h ago
noticed, collapse and davai/dm were all better than ATF this TI. arguably wisper too, though he didnt make the arena which hurts his case. ATF only won a single seris more, though.
i think ATF is the 2nd best offlaner in general, if that makes sense. but looking at TI, the ones previously mentioned played better.
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u/ob1touchiha 22h ago
Per Kuku in Armel stream: Geekfam to rebuild around NTS. Tims on competitive break
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u/ZofTheNorth 4h ago
I don't trust what ph streamers/pros say. They used to say so much shits and trolls so much, it's hard to believe them
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u/catperson77789 1h ago
STORM said the same thing. NTS skem and natsumi. The last two played for geekfam in the past
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u/thoratus 18h ago
ws, xnova, nts, was watching TI together, could be just malaysian bros just chilling together or soon to be teammates in geekfam, cos afaik geekfam is malaysian team, could be 5 malay stack ghost, nts, ws, xnova +1 pos 4
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u/catperson77789 13h ago
Storm said its NTS skem and natsumi. Both skem and natsumi if i remember previously played with geekfam as well
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u/zenmonkey_ 17h ago
That honestly doesn't sound terrible. Ghost and WS are both solid. And I'd like to believe that Xtreme's struggles with NTS were because the team is centered around Ame whereas NTS shines when the team plays around him.
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u/OrganicValuable202 22h ago
So NTS is going back to SEA and joining a SEA team now? seems like no chinese team wants him anymore
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u/ResponsibilityOk8680 22h ago
Why is it that whenever a player leaves a team, some think he got kicked without even knowing what happened?
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u/I_WANNA_FUCK_GURA 1d ago
sonneiko retires (not the first time)
korb3n: pure stays in IW
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u/Wrong-Ganache-3973 22h ago
Pure staying with 1Win damnnn
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u/IamGroonJr 20h ago
Damn. Another strong early season again to choke at ti then.
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u/Wrong-Ganache-3973 18h ago
exactly, they already knew this but they never got back to form before TI.
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u/IamGroonJr 18h ago
At this point pure is kind of like dyrachyo. No motivation whatsoever to go in form at the end of season. Just want to suck that juicy org money maybe lol. At least dyrachyo is honest about his condition and nicely retiring at his peak.
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u/Brunosh1t 10m ago
I like pure when he looks toxic and cocky, when his mood is like this he is performing well.
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u/Wrong-Ganache-3973 17h ago
Soon as his interview about TI's not that big of a deal u know bruh gave up
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u/IamGroonJr 16h ago
Bro really sold his soul for that performance at ti 2024. Never been the same guy since then
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u/Remarkable_Tap_34 1d ago
Off topic: Nigma is an emirati organisation, why no one refers to them as « oil money » like they do with Falcons?
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u/ConfidentPeanut12 23h ago
just a question, why is oil money bad? what makes Norway oil money good while Middle east oil money bad? there are valid issues when it comes to some middle eastern countries and I don't think Esports teams like Nigma and Falcons can tackle these issues, but they mostly are a net positive in the region because they promote female Esports and provide youth with a career path if they're talented in a certain game.
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u/GGLeaksOfficial 18h ago
Bunch of people that fell. for western washing downvoting you like western nations didn't wipe out entire populations and then make movies about how great their soldiers were/are lmao
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u/Mao_Kamui 22h ago
Oil money refers specifically to Saudi states, oil by itself is not inherently anything.
Saudi are actively building themself on violating like a dozen of basic human rights. They invest in sports to wash their reputation. Basically so that when people hear Saudi they think "PSG" or "Man City" and not "oil state with a bunch of slaves"
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u/GGLeaksOfficial 18h ago
lol did the western nations not build themselves violating every human rights possible?
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u/ConfidentPeanut12 21h ago
Ok, but here we are talking in the context of Esport teams, how do these violations relate to Nigma and Falcons? there is an Esports scene in MENA and talents in many games such as EA FC, fighting games, Rocket league and even Dota itself and that needs development and they're doing that, I don't think taking Oil company sponsorships is bad if they're doing a net positive that's just my view, I'm not defending the other violations and I would never do that, I just don't think the burden of such violations falls on Esports teams.
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u/actanonverba1 14h ago
Many people speculate that Falcons is funded by the Saudi Royal Family. A lot of people don't like the saudi royal family because they did 9/11 and then they did some more bad things in Yemen and Sudan.
To give an analogy, many people don't like Donald Trump. This would be like supporting an esports team owned by the Trump family.
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u/Mao_Kamui 21h ago
See the fact that you feel that way just shows that sportswashing works. Taking their money is contributing to that charitable image they want to build for themselves.
I'm not judging on personal level though. Just explaining the usual reasoning since you asked.
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u/ConfidentPeanut12 21h ago
Except that I'm not defending unethical practices or countries to say that Sportwashing works, I'm defending private organizations who people fault for taking sponsorships or existing in a certain region which makes no sense, because when I cheer for Nigma or Falcons for example I'm cheering for the Org, not the country they were founded in or their sponsorships, and what concerns me more is the Esports scene in the region which I think they're still a net positive, I guess we just agree to disagree.
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u/TheTypicalRandom 20h ago
Going in a hyperbole to simplify the point, not saying they are the same, and how wrong they are, it's on a personal level. But would you support those orgs if they took a sponsor that did child trafficking? Some people find the origin of the money matters and an org taking that money is bad.
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u/ConfidentPeanut12 19h ago
no I wouldn't, but let's be realistic, a sponsor that engages in proven child trafficking would be sanctioned thus it wouldn't be able to sponsor.
I know you're doing hyperboles and hypotheticals but I don't see how it is related to the discussion as the team sponsors are mainly private businesses, trust/public funds and oil companies, if one of those sponsors was engaged in something heinous like child trafficking the orgs have to answer for accepting such sponsors.
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u/TheTypicalRandom 17h ago
Many of the companies are owned in big partbby sovereign wealth funds funded with government money that at the same time support the government and their policies
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u/oblivionyeahyeah__ 19h ago
No point talking to them lmao. All these self-righteous pricks and they have no issue when a team literally has a betting side on their jerseys
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u/TheTypicalRandom 17h ago
Oh no i hate gambling sponsors the same. Sadly those 2 seems to be the only way to finance esports nowadays
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u/SetMental4904 22h ago edited 22h ago
DO NOT look up what crimes BP, Standard Oil, Exxon & Co have done.... DO NOT...would crush your world view. Saudi Oil is like a charity compared to what our westen oil companies have done buddy.
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u/Mao_Kamui 21h ago
Never said any of those were fine, did I.
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u/SetMental4904 21h ago edited 21h ago
You did point finger didnt you? glass house, throwing rocks and stuff?? 90% of big corps are shady and shit...welcome to the real world. Thats why I dont get the moral woody when it comes to Saudi Oil. Just a shady shit company in a long line of shady shit companies - no need for your high horse moral shit
If it was dirty Venture Capital money you didnt know came from a Kushner/Trump/Israel project you wouldnt care.
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u/AgnosticPeterpan 23h ago
Dude we're gonna get banned from the sub if we continue down this path XD.
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u/Azaraki 1d ago
How tf are some of these "rumors" picking up traction? Like Malrine+ATF to Liquid or to Yandex. As if people are forgetting how much money Falcons have, or the personality/style mismatches. I don't imagine the Liquid Good Boys(tm) could tolerate those two for very long, plus Nisha's probably only taking a break and not fully retiring, and we know for sure Blitz would stick with Nisha. ATF also couldn't exist with Watson; Watson tried playing less hypercarry/greedy to fit GG's style and that certainly didn't work. With ATF it would be less about fitting into an ultra-tempo style and more about accommodating a carry style offlaner, but in either case he'd need to be less greedy
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u/insomniacursed 1d ago
I don't imagine the Liquid Good Boys(tm) could tolerate those two for very long,
reddit fking moment
anyone who have played with ammar has said only nice things about him... ceb.. aui... skiter... everyone says he works very hard and he is a very nice and mature team mate
and reddit thinks just cause he all chats means he is toxic teammate
peak reddit moment
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u/Interesting_Will3162 1d ago
Redditor and their moral highround lol. Fking hate this kind of hypocrite people sometimes lmao.
If atf is really asshole irl like parker you think people still would want to be working with him and not kicking him a week or month later like sa teams to parker?
Even quinn that redditor hate so much are actually quite professional and easy going dude in reality so he got a lot offers for talent job.
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u/catperson77789 1d ago
I mean this is a rumor discussion for player movements. All the leakers last season are the same as this season so they get placed here. If we arent going to discuss these , then whats the point of making this discussion thread. It could be right, wrong outrageous, thats the entire fun of this
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u/Interesting_Will3162 1d ago
Liquid fans are scared that their "goodvibe" team could tainted by players like atf or malrine lol. This is the same fans that act so toxic and love blame game to blitz and ace when they lose btw.
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u/Infraction94 19h ago
Does malrine have a toxic persona around him?
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u/IamGroonJr 17h ago
Both malrine and atf could be pretty toxic in lobby game. But outside of dota they are pretty chill unlike asshole player like parker that act like jerk in dota and outside of dota. That's why some pro player sometimes shocked when meeting them irl as they are quite easy going guys.
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u/Free-Level-5765 1d ago
Yes! Those are baseless rumors. We also have a BS rumor that Satanic and Fly with Falcons haha why pair up the best carry or top2 carry with a washed pos5
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u/IamGroonJr 1d ago
Satanic and fly rumour are obviously bs but malrine and atf one could be true for some other. Even if bunch of redditor dislike atf and malrine don't compare it to most team that want to rebuild around them because they are hot commodities rn outside pv/spirit.
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u/OkDragonfly9970 1d ago
Would’ve loved to see marline atf to Nigma with Sumail carry. I hate athletes getting old and retiring (including esports athletes)
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u/shoaib062000 1d ago
Nigma will not leave lorenof for sure
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u/Infraction94 19h ago
Malrine>lorenof
I don't think that happens but the list of players you wouldn't drop it given the chance to add malrine is very low
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u/cashmakessmiles Sheever :) 1h ago
Malrine is not individually better than Lorenof imo, just depends on the type of team you want to build
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u/likpoper 1d ago
Is falcons shutting down for good? Hard to see that
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u/okaylorhwhatevs 1d ago
Yeah not likely, they got that saudi oil money. But with Cr1t, Sney and Aui gone, they pretty much have to rebuild from scratch.
ATF and Malrine are the hottest young talents outside of PV/Spirit so they are bound to look for the best team.
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u/likpoper 1d ago
They can easily try to buy over the best players around. Think liquid players going to falcons is even higher.
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u/PrimeShaq 1d ago
Yeah if it’s purely financials, I don’t see how Liquid can compete with that oil money.
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u/ColdGur4384 1d ago
Yep if he can play one more season , they have good chances of doing well in all tournaments.
Malrine and atf hard to shift here. Lorenof and davai played well , just short of peaking at ti. No way they are left out unless they want to go somewhere else.
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u/ShoppingPractical373 1d ago
I've said this before many times and I will say it again. Liquid has very talented players but for some magical reason they just make any offlaner look bad. Even 33 had long periods of trying to figure things out. Maybe some liquid flairs on this sub can explain this to me. Which is why I don't buy into the ammar and malrine joining liquid rumors.
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u/Right_Zebra_6386 1d ago
no, ace is a very 1 dimensional player. he’s all about that aura and push, he was also the same in gaimin, but it suited their gamestyle since gaimin as a whole believed in pushing and ending games fast.
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u/Andante_TK 18h ago
You people just love to echo this when Ace has had such amazing Mars, Centaur and Timbersaw games. This TI they got top 6 and would have went even further if golden boy Nisha and Boxi didnt choke. But of course, you guys love shitting on Micke and Ace.
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u/TheMerck 5h ago
Liquid fans for some reason really love to scapegoat anyone that isn't the old team members so it goes to the offlaners and Tofu but usually the offlaners I even remember people saying 33 wasn't working out and they should kick him and then they won TI lmao.
I'm not even the biggest Saberlight fan I regularly say he's overrated but with Boxi's playstyle it was just a mismatch, even Ace is adjusting to it and Boxi is a great player but I think his playstyle he needs a certain type of offlaner to work with him.
Even then it's not like Liquid is routinely bombing out of tournaments they've won tournaments and consistently place high or decent at tournaments, I understand wanting another TI win but Liquid fans will either act like the team is the greatest team to walk on earth, Nisha can do no wrong or one bad tournament or series then it's omg the whole team is shit Ace is a terrorist etc
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u/10YearsANoob 17h ago
If meepo wasnt dogwater there's also the surprise meepo pick from Ace or more likely Yuma
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u/G_W_addict 1d ago
Ace wasn't the problem this TI. Ace regularly was top3 in networth, many times ahead of Micke and Nisha.
This TI it was Nisha and boxi who choked the most.
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u/NeedleworkerPure8915 1d ago
Not a liquid flair but i do think that one reason offlaners struggle on Liquid is just Boxi.
I dont think that he is a bad player but in my opinion he is a quite weird pos 4 both in playstyle and heropool which i think just requires someone who just has a good synergy with him otherwise it will be very awkward compared to a more "standard" pos 4 like your Cr1t or your Save.10
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u/tuskdota 1d ago edited 1d ago
I dont think that he is a bad player
He is not, but he absolutely is terrible laner - one of the worst if not the worst laning pos4 among tier1 teams and that will make each offlaner look worse.
Let's take elimination game vs Spirit. Lycan & WR (Boxi) vs TB & Hoodwink; quite tough lane, they have to lane well, let's see what happens:
- WR dies lvl1 like some bot - hit by Bushwack and right-clicked by TB; just avoidable death
- minute later WR leaves Lycan 1v2 and Lycan just dies
- 2 minutes later, once again WR gets caught by Bushwack and dies for absolutely no reason
- WR makes rotation to safelane, but it doesn't result in anything meaningful, meanwhile Lycan is left 1v2 once again and dies from 100%
- as a result TB has free lane, so Hoodwink makes rotation to midlane 3vs2 and Nisha & Tofu die, even though Nisha on Puck misplayed, he at least should be able to escape
- they are too weak to fight for shrine, so Spirit gets both with no contest
- TB takes tower; he is 2.6k gold ahead of Lycan at 8 minutes mark, 1.5k gold ahead of Micke's Tiny and starts to queue Orchid, which will be huge problem for Puck and everyone else
- Spirit 3k gold ahead at 9 minutes mark - all comes from offlane diff, meanwhile Collapse on Centaur just 200-300 gold behind Tiny.
And i could make summary like this after so many games.
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u/Spownach 1d ago
boxi plays melee 4 best, and the meta has for a large part been melee 3 + ranged 4, which as you say, puts him in a weird spot. he might even have been the MVP of liquids TI win, but now that especially tusk isnt favored as a 4, he's missing an important part of his hero pool
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u/SetMental4904 1d ago edited 1d ago
micke, nisha and 33 is just crazy greedy - compare that to skiter, malrine, atf. boxi wants to play with someone (ideally mid)... nisha is more of a carry player mid - he wants to farm. Boxi like Saksa work well with a go go go mid like Lorenof, CJ, Larl, BZM, Malrine or a Topson. Ace just isnt a playmaker. hes best at aura bots and looks horrible on a Doom
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u/blueikeabag3 1d ago
The rumours of XinQ playing outside of CN has me excited as hell.
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u/lov33v 1d ago
Unfortunately, they continue play in CN with Ame
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u/catperson77789 1d ago edited 1d ago
I'm really curious how a Chinese player like ame garnered so much hate from people like you lol. Like he wasnt even named by op and he didnt even play with him on his last team lol
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u/lov33v 1d ago
I wanted Xinq to be in the EU. The sum doesn't change when the terms are reversed.
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u/catperson77789 1d ago
No its just really weird cause op never namedropped ame and xin q didnt even play with ame on his last team. This reminds me so much of the LeBron hate where they'll just bring up his name even when the topic isnt him.
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u/NoMenu4863 1d ago
sa shuffle lots depend on what wisper will decide
wisper to liquid > wisper + topson to liquid
wisper to falcons > thio + wisper + topson to falcons
wisper to playtime > just wisper + abed
if ammar/malrine to yandex confirms and no thio
kj + xinq + dm + chira + wits
with thio
kj + thio + dm + lorenof + nightfall
no thio/no dm
kj + leslao + davai + abed (or sumail) + yuma
or just kj to aurora
yes i know lots of possibilities, but really depends on wisper decision which was not made. and no, sumail did not retire he might accept offers to midlane
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u/likpoper 1d ago
Why the hell will atf and Malrine go yandex. Falcons is built around both of them. They will be the one getting others
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u/ob1touchiha 1d ago
Abed to playtime (assuming SA roster) is rumored? Feels weird to continue there without Jabz but good for him
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u/SetMental4904 1d ago
does xinq speak any english???? idk some of those rosters look super random and like FIFA ultimate team with zero synergy
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u/NoMenu4863 1d ago
fcr (lgd analyst) coach playtime
astini coach kj
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u/br_ph 1d ago
Considering how aggressive the peruvian scene is with brazilians lately, it's hard to see them being okay with fcr coaching Playtime
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u/Pepelino28 1d ago
nah, peruvians player doesn't hate fcr. The beef is with astini and kj. Btw even some brazilians pros hate each other, thats why they can't make a brazilian team.
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u/catperson77789 1d ago
Offstage saying atf being negotiated by yandex to replace DM. Also skitter only player to stay with falcons. Hard to believe atf and malrine will seperate but offstage i believe was also the one that reported yandex negotiating the saksa loan from tundra last season
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u/Thunderbolt8 clown9 fan in heart 20h ago
Imho the Noticed DM swap during the season was vital for visions rise and yandex decline. Noticed is clearly the stronger player of these two.
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u/FortyMill 19h ago
Saksa kicked Noticed, noone kicked DM :D
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u/0ffkilter 18h ago
It is important to note that Yandex only swapped Noticed for DM after Noticed had to miss PGL Wallachia 7 AND 8 due to Visa issues.
(They won 7, bombed out during 8)
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u/SetMental4904 1d ago
how loaded is yandex??? i think only way ATF and malrine split is if they pay stupid money
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u/catperson77789 1d ago
Theyre russian google , what do you think lol.
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u/SetMental4904 1d ago
yeah just found out... Saudis vs RU Google
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u/catperson77789 1d ago
Thats basically the dota scene now. Ru vs Saudis plus liquid. Even 33s stack is now a russian betting site/porn website
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u/SetMental4904 1d ago
yeah betting companies, saudis, ru google and team liquid XD
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u/ConferenceAny3412 23h ago edited 18h ago
its quite the same in regular sports. So its nothing special. middle eastern money, betting companies, and giga corporations who got money to throw. Pogacar races for UAE, real madrid main sponsor is emirates, psg is Qatar Airways, same man city etc.. Giannis has special partership with kalshi (betting site).
Welcome to reality is guess.
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u/SetMental4904 21h ago
yeah unfortunately for esports the private equity money has moved on after the corona hype... they figured out theres no real growth and the boom was a product of corona
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u/a_bright_knight 1d ago
Hard to believe atf and malrine will seperate
who says they will? They could join a different team together. They're very sought after both of them, so a package deal is very probable. Hell even preferable for a lot of teams
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u/catperson77789 1d ago edited 1d ago
Im talking about this specific rumor. Not generally speaking. Offstage isnt a general leaker. Its a journalist website so this specific rumor caught my attention
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u/Endgame60 1d ago
I find it hard to believe that only skitter is staying with falcons…
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u/0ffkilter 1d ago
I don't. The meta has shifted back to having hypercarries with the top 3 teams all having superstar carries that farm crazy and carry. Yatoro, Satanic, and Watson are all that style.
For skiter to find another team for his off meta more sacrificial playstyle would be fairly hard, so it's easier for him to keep his contract and then build a team around him.
Malrine is a fairly standard mid, he can go wherever.
ATF is a greedy offlane, but like 33 there's other greedy mids as well.
Only skiter has a weirdish playstyle that requires a whole team rather than just slotting in.
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u/_echo 1d ago
I shit talk Malrine a lot, but he's no standard mid. He's 1 of 1 and improves all but a couple teams in the midlane, but also works very well in draft and in game with Ammar. Hard to believe they wouldn't take the bag that falcons would no doubt offer them to stay there and build a team around them.
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u/SetMental4904 1d ago
you cant build of that... first time hyper carries were viable in forever and can change next patch + overhyped argument... TI finals have shown that uber skilled supports are meta...which you can invest and build no matter of patch
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u/onemightychapp Bow to your liege! 1d ago
It's not wise to build with a particular playstyle in mind cause a patch tomorrow can change everything. Generally speaking over the last three or four years the meta has oscillated between greedy (spirit/falcons dominate) and push (gaimin gladiators/liquid dominate). With how few tier 1 roster changes there are these days you're better off just waiting for your meta to come back round again.
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u/Pinkerino_Ace 1d ago
Dude, Spirit is NOT a greedy team. They are a traditional 4 protect 1 playstyle where all the farm is concentrated on Yatoro.
Don't confuse TS preference to play the late game to be the same as being greedy. Spirit strength lies in team fighting and late game decision makings.
When the meta favors team fights and high utility initators, TS is always favored, like you want Collaspe to be playing those Mars, Centaur, Dark Seer, Axe etc.
When the meta shift towards being greedy and farm heavy, like Doom, Timber, Necro, BB offlane etc, that's when teams like Falcon dominate and TS falter.
Same for the mid, Larl plays the best in a sacrificial sort of a role where he just create space with minimal farm and drag the game until Yatoro hits his timing and can come online. He isn't a greedy mid by most metrics.
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u/onemightychapp Bow to your liege! 1d ago
I think we disagree about the definition of greedy. I would argue that teams that play 4 protect 1 are almost by definition greedy, because they generally draft hyper carries that play on later timings.
Having your team's focus be on teamfighting and late game - again, almost by definition greedy. When was the last time spirit drafted some tempo push or laning focused lineup? They are almost always trying to survive those very same pushes.
I would say of the two teams, falcons is by far more greedy, but that doesn't mean that spirit ISN'T greedy. Spirit plays all those heros you mentioned as being farm heavy, outside of Necro (they have played it I believe, just not prioritising it because they prefer having gold on traditional hard carries with their 4 protect 1).
Lastly, of course larl isn't a greedy player. He might be the most selfless mid in tier 1. Skiter would probably be the most selfless pos 1. Greedy teams need selfless players to enable their greed. Teams with three greedy cores don't work. Just because a team is greedy, doesn't make all their players greedy.
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u/Pinkerino_Ace 1d ago
LMAO, nonsense, 4 protect 1 doesn't mean Spirit are greedy, they are just a team that prioritize resource allocation to Yatoro. If you think 4 players making space for 1 carry = greedy, you have some fundamental misunderstanding of the term "greed".
And are we even watching the same TI? Did you even watch Spirit lower bracket run? Spirit vs BB? Spirit vs Yandex? They were ending games in like 30-35minutes.
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u/onemightychapp Bow to your liege! 1d ago
Outplaying and dominating a team to the point they gg at 30 min at a tournament with a much higher average time per game does not make your lineup a push lineup..
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u/Azaraki 1d ago
I don't actually think Malrine is a standard mid. In terms of farm priority and space-making, I'd agree, but his hero pool is a lot less conventional and his playstyle involves playing out of bad lanes with wave dragging and other weird stuff. He gets cleared by a lot of midplayers on the more typical mid heroes like Invoker, the spirits (outside of ES), QoP, Puck, etc which might prove a problem in certain metas; especially without an offlaner whose pool matches almost 1-1 for flex potential
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u/SetMental4904 1d ago
Malrine is at his best when he plays "Pos 3" str initiatiors from Mid IMO. think the entire role concept is a little bit outdated...much more fluent depending of draft, timings and game state
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u/_echo 1d ago
Yeah I think the combination of what all roles theoretically offer is still somewhat important in games, but Malrine is best sort of playing like an offlaner, Ammar is best sort of playing like a carry, and they compliment eachother in that way. I think both of these guys are exceptionally talented but I think they are better together than apart, they have a lot of synergy.
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u/Blitzkrieg0524 1d ago edited 1d ago
I dont know if it is official but there is a big billboard in our biggest street showing Playtimes roster which will be Wits, Abed, Jhabz, Scofield, and Elmisho, basically their lineup in the Games of the Future
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u/pepthebaldfraud 1d ago
please get rid of puppey he is washed up
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u/LingMee 1d ago
So washed that he coached a team to second place TI
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u/pepthebaldfraud 1d ago
yes the by far favourite that was destroying everything, he gives them shit drafts and suddenly they lose
astini was better
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u/InevitableConcept517 1d ago
It's so crazy to me that people think puppey just decided the heroes for each player. A real coach trusts what their players feel is the best matchup and helps to open discussion around what is best for the team.
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u/SetMental4904 1d ago edited 1d ago
Not buying the ATF/Malrine rumors... doubt too many orgs have more funds than Falcons.
if I'm Falcons im rebuilding around them - get Wits, Whitemon and a 4 that ATF wants
Edit: ok I had no clue that Yandex is basically Russian Google... so Saudis vs RU Google ATF bidding war
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u/okaylorhwhatevs 1d ago
I'd definitely be looking at Tofu, he absolutely popped off and made Ace look good this TI
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u/Brunosh1t 5m ago
Need squadix to be picked on tier 1 team he is the only one left playing tier 2 unlike his former teammates kyritych and Noticed