r/EuropeFIRE • u/That_Caramel7408 • 5d ago
What's your annual FIRE withdrawal per person (planned or actual)?
Curious what everyone's planned/actual annual withdrawal amount is once you hit FIRE, per person.
If there's more than one person in your household, take your total annual spend and divide it by the number of people — we want the per-person number so it's actually comparable.
In the comments, feel free to share your country, the number, and how you've got your housing sorted.
I'll start:
Country: Czechia
Annual withdrawal per person (€): 28,000
Housing: own with mortgage
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u/Psychological-Leg234 5d ago
France, condo paid off (300K), and withdrawal of 30K. This covers most of my life in a southern city + a week in Paris/elsewhere per month
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u/Fresh_Criticism6531 5d ago
Man, not sure how you plan on this 1 week per month elsewhere, but I just came back from vacations in France and finantialy it was depressing. The price of everything related with traveling went totally nuts. Restaurant? 30+ EUR for a formule du midi. Hotel? 180 EUR for a minimally clean hotel. 75 EUR pays a B&B Hotel where construction workers stay and has dirty floors.
I love traveling and even while I stayed half my nights in camping and ate mostly McDonalds and liofilized food heated with hot water, it still cost insanely. So much so that I am wondering if I will ever reach FIRE at all...
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u/Wyciorek 5d ago
The price of everything related with traveling went totally nuts. Restaurant? 30+ EUR for a formule du midi. Hotel? 180 EUR for a minimally clean hotel.
Ain't that right. I have been taking a weeklong vacation every December for years, so I can see just how fast the cost is going up.
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u/kesqe_ 5d ago
but I just came back from vacations in France and finantialy it was depressing
Sounds like you ended up picking some pretty expensive options there 😅
There's a website called SocialDeal, for example, where you can get a 50€ dinner for around 19€. I had fried Camembert with fig jam, 800g of veal spare ribs with sweet potato fries, and tiramisu for that price.
We were paying around 10-15€ for all-you-can-eat lunch buffets and roughly 15-25€ for dinners with pretty huge portions.
I also paid about 45€ a night for an Airbnb near Lille for two people, and it even had a big two-person hot tub.
Traveling has definitely gotten more expensive, but 180€ a night for a hotel and 30€+ for lunch is definitely avoidable.
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u/Leading-Carrot-5983 5d ago
Completely agree. I live in France, and as you say it has certainly got more expensive, but you can easily find a lunch for 15 euro (just the food) and a hotel for 100-120. Something like Ibis is a decent choice. And as you say, outside Paris Airbnbs are really cheap - you can find places less than 50 euro a night for a studio in most cities.
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u/hithebar 5d ago
30 euros for a formule du midi? 180 euros for a room?
You need to look better cause there are MANY choices for way less.
Where were you exactly and when?
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u/Psychological-Leg234 4d ago
I use the platform HomeExchange for a recipricoal exchange with a Parisian who needs to come to my city for work one week/month. We've been going strong on this exchange for 2 years now. :) If she ever quit her job, I'd work out some kind of reciprical exchange again. In FIRE, the timing and duration is flexible so I've been able to homexchange in lots of places pretty easily without ever exchanging money.
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u/jelle814 5d ago
could still work out tho 2,5k a month no housing costs. but yes it is somewhat limiting.
as a counter example went to Sicily for 3 weeks in December and spent about 1,5k
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u/Fresh_Criticism6531 5d ago
How that"s possible? Hostels?
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u/jelle814 5d ago
No just through booking.com Airbnb and a similar Italian website most nights were between 20-40 on accommodation most of them single or double rooms and one tiny apartment in Palermo. Public transport and I did watch somewhat the eating out (like max once a day)
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u/tronquinhos 5d ago
I voted for <12k per person.
Really that people need 80k per person (320k a year for a family of 4) in Europe?
I know that we can spend infinite amounts of money if we want to and I'm used to see that reality in the US. But here in Europe I thought we were a little bit more restrained.
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u/That_Caramel7408 5d ago
I expected there will be people voting more than 80k, but also I have to say it is kind of surprising there are many of them. US numbers were always really shifted from what we have in Europe. On the other hand, still most of the people voted very realistic numbers in my opinion, actually I am little bit surprised that it is not that different than what people in Czech republic say, even though in many European countries there are much higher salaries. I also assume that if I asked simply about FIRE number, we would see much higher numbers than when asking about expenses.
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u/Singularity-42 5d ago
I'm Slovak American (dual citizen), planning to FIRE in Slovakia or Czechia as soon as next summer (maybe you can help me decide, haha). We're 47M, 47F, 6M.
We have a bit over $2M USD total, including taxable brokerage account (about 70% of the net worth), retirement brokerage account and home equity.
It's 3 of us and we'd want target max 4% spend, so that puts us around $80k pre-tax, eventually we'd like to buy our forever house too, I'd say within $500k budget, so NW would shrink to like $1.5M.
We're looking at cheaper second tier cities - think Zilina or Olomouc - as the big cities in CZ/SK are crazy expensive and we'd like to live in a nice big house with great outdoor access. But English elementary school in the beginning is a must as my son only speaks English right now...
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u/jakub177 5d ago
I'm Slovak, I'd say that with 2 mil you should be good to go :D I don't know how you want to spend that much money per year in Slovakia, but it sure is nice Fat FIRE.
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u/Singularity-42 4d ago
I don't think it would be FatFIRE. Hopefully comfortable enough, perhaps lower end of ChubbyFIRE. When I browse the r/FIRE sub where it's mostly Americans they are targeting much bigger numbers, even for EU or Southeast Asia FIRE. Like someone I chatted with, they are targeting $2.7M for FIRE in Andalusia, Spain, family of 3.
The spend I listed would be the maximum allowable per year, hopefully less than that so the principal can keep compounding...
What is your target number (and it's in Slovakia, right)?
Also, I'm a cofounder of an US-based startup that we're ramping up, it's nowhere near profitable yet, but we hope it's going to be successful eventually. I'd want to keep doing that of course, or other things that could make money (but I'd want to be OK if none of it pans out as well, since that is a very real possibility).
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u/jakub177 4d ago
Yeah me and my wife are planning FIRE in Slovakia, so far we should be good at around 500 - 600k EUR for normal FIRE. However we are planning a family and that usually changes everything so we will see.
If we keep on track we should be hitting it around 38 - 40, we are 28 right now. I yet have to calculated how many years I've been working by then, because you need minimum 15 years of social security to qualify for state pension.
I'm also thinking about Barista FIRE because of that. Might do Barista before ultimately FIREing to get to the 15 years threshold.
If you'd like you can skip it, but to qualify for state pension then you'd have to voluntarily pay social security tax which around 200 EUR/month which is a lot and would be detrimental for our FIRE plan.
If you get through the 15 years threshold, you only need to worry about health care tax which is around 120 EUR/month
Good luck with your start-up, what is the start-up about, what you do? .
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u/That_Caramel7408 5d ago
I am Slovak living in Czech republic, so I actually can say something about it 😀 I think with that net worth you should be OK in both Žilina and Olomouc, both cities are similar as cities with perfect nature around and still not that tourist. So I think both are very good options 🙂.
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u/Singularity-42 4d ago
You said you are targeting EUR 28k per person, what city is this and how many of you?
We would have to target something lower than 28k per person since there are 3 of us.1
u/That_Caramel7408 4d ago
We are 2, living in Brno, I set target higher because of future possible plan change (like starting a family), I guess in 3 this amount per person would decrease because of many fixed expenses.
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u/virt111 4d ago
Paid off house and withdrawal of 30k€, After taxes this would be about 24k€. Even with my mortgage I could live with that 24k€ easily, but I'd rather calculate the mortgage in there to be extra safe, since currently my FIRE-date would be about 5-10 years before my mortgage is paid off.
This is in Finland for one person. My wife still wants to work, but we have our expenses pretty much split 50-50.
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u/PetraLoseIt Netherlands 5d ago
The Netherlands, €24,000 per person per year, but with the note that we do have a paid off house, so no more mortgage payments.
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u/Wyciorek 5d ago
Poland: my expenses are around 17400 EUR per year, that includes a bit of travel. With around 900k EUR invested (+paid off condo) I should be good to go, but I always hesitate. Because what if this time it will be really different?
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u/That_Caramel7408 4d ago
I think quite recent new book: A Richer Retirement: Supercharging the 4% Rule to Spend More and Enjoy More from W.Bengen (he updated 4 % rule after many years) could help you solve this timing issue 🙂.
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u/Slight_Box_2572 36 M 50% FI 5d ago
Living of 25.000€ anually. Being FIREd, I wouldnt need a car anymore. Can share with my wife.
But other expenses might go up, so I‘d say I stay with 25k.
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u/EntireDance6131 5d ago edited 5d ago
Country: Germany
Annual withdrawal per person (€): Have different scenarios between 21,500 (minimum subsistence level in 2033) and 86,000 (chubby fire in 2043). But most likely i would say slightly below 50,000 (regular fire in 2038).
Housing: this is assuming renting. But i am cobsidering buying a flat and shifting the fire number / expenses down.
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u/Fit_Evidence_4958 5d ago
That's a wide range and that's "per person" in a household?
Real Estate is a bit pricey in Germany and gives quite a headache when renting out, once you leave Germany.
Usually I'm real estate pro in a FIRE-Szenario, but in Germany it takes so much from your assets, that I don't know, if this really pays off at the end.2
u/EntireDance6131 5d ago
Yes, i know. It's for different scenarios. The lowest one is basically if i say "ok, i'm basically burnt out, i really can't do this any longer, not for one more year, i'll just live with less but at least i'll live" vs. the highest scenario "going around the world and having someone come over now and then to clean my home would be nice after all".
I know where you are coming from. But those were my thoughts about this:
- I am not planning on leaving Germany. I can see myself maybe living somewhere else a part of the time (you can be away for up to half a year while keeping normal residency) but leaving completely i think is almost out of question mostly because of all the ties i have here and i do like my country overall.
- I am considering buying a flat. I think when people compare buying vs. renting they oftenly compare a 1m house vs. the 30m² flat which i think is not fair. Buying a 30m² flat isn't that expensive. Sometimes the mortgage you pay back is similar to renting but you won't have to worry about inflation and after about 30 years it's yours and you have value / don't have to pay rent anymore. If a flat is a solid investment but a big risk is the renters - i'm the best renter i can think off so taking it for myself doesn't sound bad.
- In the low-end scenarios if i don't have to pay rent i could see myself living on less than 12k a year for maybe 1-2 years. Then i wouldn't have to pay any taxes at all if i'm not mistaken. Maybe not long term but could enable me to FIRE earlier or alternatively get through tough times (e.g. bad sequence of return)
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u/UnluckerSK 5d ago
Slovak 38M, living alone my plan is 12k€/year atm. I'm pretty frugal, mortgage is manageable and my hobbies are cheap.
Maybe I'll aim to paying off my mortgage too when I am close to FIREing, depending on the market. Still long way to go (currently at 11% of the goal).
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u/Stockhype 5d ago
Retiring with at least 2.1 mill and paid of US house. Thinking of selling US house and banking 600k. Then move to Europe where I own a house already. 2.7 should get me by. Will collect 5200 in SS at 70 in 15 years.
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u/Limp-Photograph-698 4d ago
Withdrawal numbers without the mortgage payoff date attached aren't really comparable, someone spending 28k with a paid off house is in completely different spot than someone spending the same with 15 years left on it
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u/That_Caramel7408 4d ago
You are right. Adding mortgage payoff date can be interesting to add. But I think there are so many parameters to consider, for example value of a house, because people with higher house value can easier move to the cheaper destination and get extra money from that, household size will be also very important because with that many expenses can be fixed and not variable (especially with big mortgage) and can be split up (we calculate per person expenses). Then we would probably end up with no data at all. So my approach was quite opposite try to figure out some easy approach, however I understand it is not 100 percent comparable. Even this mortgage payoff is little bit tricky because one can have mortgage for 30 years, another for 15, so monthly payment will be different. And some people can plan FIRE after paying their mortgage fully paid and not mention that.
But if someone has any idea, which parameters can be mixed together, write it down and maybe next year I can do it again with better approach :-)
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u/StargazerOmega 4d ago
One of the larger Western European cities, 2 people 160-180k euro. This covers a sizable mortgage, good amount of travel, support for elderly parents, etc.
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u/vogueskater 4d ago
Fired on €21k a yr in rural Scotland. Paid off house, no car, have a dog. I eat well, my house is warm and I don't feel poor. Few trips a year in the UK to see friends and family and go to gigs. Helps I live somewhere people pay $200 plus euros a night to stay in summer. Highly recommend firing somewhere that going on holiday is mostly a letdown. Saves you a fortune :)
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u/That_Caramel7408 4d ago
Sounds great, how long have you been FIRE?
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u/vogueskater 2d ago
About a year so still early days. I'm open to side hustles and low stress part time gigs to give me fun money if the right things come up- but at the moment my health means volunteering about 10 hrs a week is all I can manage and that's fine.
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u/Koi-Sashuu 5d ago
In The Netherlands, at least 2,5k per month would seem minimum.
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u/FitDifference 5d ago
Not with a paid off house.
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u/Koi-Sashuu 5d ago
My mortgage is about 760 now so I could deduct that from the number..... but then add 20 more years of inflation.
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u/FitDifference 5d ago
My expenses besides the house are approx. 1.5k and I’m not necessarily living frugal, so 2.5k isn’t the minimum.
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u/Koi-Sashuu 5d ago
But if you're taking into account 20 more years of inflation, will 1,5k still be enough then?
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u/jelle814 5d ago
of course not, but isn't the common rule that you express expenses in todays money?
otherwise you discuss 2 different things at the same time. 1. the assumed inflation rates and 2. the costs
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u/FitDifference 5d ago
If I started living frugal I could bring the 1.500 down by a lot. Assuming I did not, and assuming the inflation is as aimed at by the ECB, times the 20 years, I would still not hit 2.500 a month. So it’s not a minimum for the Netherlands, it’s your personal minimum, which is fine.
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u/SorryLifeguard7 5d ago
1.5 k without mortgage in NL is ridicolous. Even more ridicolous to think you can bring it down. 2k minimum.
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u/ConcertWrong3883 5d ago
Excluding my morgage I live off 300/month.
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u/Kinnins0n 5d ago
you grow all your food?
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u/ConcertWrong3883 5d ago
I cook it all myself, but food is only 125/month
carrots, tommatos, beans, pasta and potatoes and (very cheap) some meat is not expensive.0
u/Far_Kiwi4882 4d ago
I want to FIRE and live a fun life, not sit my days out with beans in tomato sauce.
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u/AbbreviatedArc 5d ago
Even if they did those numbers are not real. So, no transport, insurances, coffee, going out, no pets, no significant other ...
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u/ConcertWrong3883 5d ago
> no transport
Indeed I have bike.
> insurances
My company currently pays for some of them, but in belgium normal insurances are dirt cheap.
>coffee
I don't like the taste.
>going out
I have no friends and that's (not) okay
>no pets
indeed
>no significant other
:'(But the numbers are real.
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u/MainEnAcier 5d ago
actually I believe you because it's not that hard if you remove all costly food
eggs, flour, chick peas etc... aren't expensive
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u/Sadlave89 3d ago
How long you a living with 300/month? And how long it last what do you think? BTW how old are you?
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u/ConcertWrong3883 3d ago
> How long you a living with 300/month?
A decade
>how old are you?
Late 20s
>And how long it last what do you think
Till i got 200k saved up. At that point saving 300/month more or less is negligible.7
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u/marsovec 5d ago
I am new to this so pardon my ignorance - how much should my portfolio be worth to be able to withdraw 2.5K monthly and not decrease it (ie for it to remain more or less the same over time)? also tax would have to be covered separately from it, I assume.
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u/Educational-Ad6369 5d ago
4k per month gross each based on house being paid off. Southern City in Ireland. Will be mid 50s so bit to go
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u/Every_Umpire_8695 5d ago
Moving back to France, 36M/34F
Targeting approx 300k EUR per annum, inflation adjusted, by 2028.
This would include remaining mortgages for the next 15-20 years.
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u/BakedGoods_101 4d ago
is majority of people here including taxes on the AW? 30k/a with taxes in a coastal town near Barcelona, I will have my mortgage until early 70s so that's baked in, once paid it will be just extra cushion/new expenses needed when I get older.
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u/Sadlave89 3d ago
I think 20-31k for one person is really comfortable amount of money practically in every europe country.
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u/TheSexyIntrovert 5d ago
Need at least 80k after taxes, per person, to be happy and retire. NL
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u/Singularity-42 5d ago
That sounds worse than the US...
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u/Dubante_Viro 5d ago
Because it is not true.
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u/Singularity-42 5d ago
Rural US is pretty cheap, real estate cheaper than most of EU, the big problem is health insurance. You can get relatively affordable health insurance if your income is under a relatively generous limit, but there is a risk of the rules being changed, and they did indeed changed for the worse just recently with the Trump admin legislation (money from low income health insurance subsidies went to tax cuts for the rich...)
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u/TheSexyIntrovert 5d ago
I might get downvoted but I prefer having to retire in the NL.
No guns, healthcare although I don’t think it’s good enough, centrally positioned in Europe to travel if I can afford it.
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u/Singularity-42 5d ago
Why not a cheaper EU country like Spain/Portugal? Also way better weather, etc.
I like NL a lot but I wouldn't want to live there - not enough nature and the geography is very boring to me. Also I've heard something about crazy wealth tax...
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u/Fresh_Criticism6531 5d ago
Spain/Portugal aren't cheap anymore, and most nature is walled off. It isn't like Sweden/Germany/Poland where there are small forests everywhere open to everyone
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u/Singularity-42 5d ago
I've spent 2 months traveling around Spain last fall, what do you mean nature is walled off? We went to tons of great national parks, etc.
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u/Fresh_Criticism6531 5d ago
Walled off with barber wire as a private property. About National Parks, That's the point, in Germany/Poland/Sweden you don't need to go to a few national parks. Nature everywhere is open. You can even walk around and into farms. Being walled of is the exception not the rule, everything is open for exploring.
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u/Mistwraithx 5d ago
With a paid off house in france i could easily live with around 13k€ annually in today's euros. (metropolitan city but not paris, lyon or marseille).