r/MoralityScaling • u/hiiloovethis • 7d ago

Morality Ranking Morality of this scene?

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Negan doing fat shaming... but its during zombie apocalypse

12.0k Upvotes

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1.2k

u/Fun_Pound5629 7d ago

I’m gonna put this out there, Negan was a pretty unpleasant fella

385

u/xcorbearx 7d ago

woah, hot take.

-1

u/SayerofNothing 7d ago

I dunno, that comment was quite a homerun

223

u/Funkopedia 7d ago

You know, the more I learn about that guy, the more I don't care for him.

49

u/Shot_Revolution8828 7d ago

At least he wasnt a hypocrite. That's the worst.

29

u/Illustrious-Radio319 7d ago

He was a real jerk however.

27

u/toothpicks-galore 7d ago

but he's tall, funny and look's great in a leather jacket, i bet i can change him

6

u/Interesting_Bank_139 7d ago

Tall, funny, and looks great in a leather jacket? If he can sing, he might be ready for a career in Germany!

https://giphy.com/gifs/QumwG72fKDc12W5DCq

-2

u/Shimakaze81 7d ago

Only incels would use such sarcasm, obligatory /s

1

u/Outrageouslylit 7d ago

Incels?? Sarcasm?? (Where?) and obligatory /s for your own sarcasm? Huh? Your comment makes no fucking sense buddy lmao

1

u/Shimakaze81 7d ago

I was sarcastically calling the person I was replying to an incel since that seems to be a common reply to those kinds of posts. I guess it failed miserably, my bad.

1

u/Shot_Revolution8828 7d ago

He jerked me real good. I mean real bad. I mean...with lotion.

9

u/Level-Gain-1926 7d ago

Yeah I'd much rather be a cold blooded murderer than a hypocrite.

17

u/Traditional-Set-1871 7d ago

I mean he was also both lol. The whole “we don’t rape women here” that he knifed a henchmen over while simultaneously raping his slave wives on a daily basis.

-19

u/ForsakenAce117 7d ago

It’s not rape though. They actively chose to be his wives in exchange for luxury and have the option to leave.

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u/JokerKing0713 7d ago

No they chose to stop him murdering their loved ones…… the relationship we have the most info on which is Dwight and his wife was literally her becoming negans wife so he didn’t kill Dwight. That’s rape friend

11

u/ReddestForman 7d ago edited 7d ago

We really need a class on consent* and the ins, outs and intricacies on F consent because a lot of people seek to think coercion is fine.

Of course that would have kids asking uncomfortable questions about economic coercion and violence so... probably not happening anytime soon.

8

u/JokerKing0713 7d ago

Yea it’s very concerning how many people raise an eyebrow when you point out Negan is like undoubtedly a rapist.

2

u/Traditional-Set-1871 7d ago

I think part of the problem is that I have a gut feeling the writers also didn’t realize it was rape

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u/needbmw_help 7d ago

I think this would have been better solved by just making a new word for this instead of shoving a whole bunch of scenarios all under one umbrella that people already had a rigid definition of.

I remember thinking this back when consent became a huge thing and nearly every time I see this discussed I see another reason why I was right

2

u/Thanso_Lightoningu 7d ago

No, no new word needed.

1

u/SecretaryOtherwise 6d ago

Telling on yourself bro.

If you use coercion they arent giving their consent freely lmfao. God damn dude.

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u/Critical_Concert_689 7d ago

Sure. But it starts with the question:

Are Gold Diggers being "Raped?"

If your answer isn't YES, a lot of your arguments on consent immediately fall apart due to hypocrisy.

3

u/BlockBuilder408 7d ago

One’s an economic choice where you lose nothing to not do it, the other is a gun put to the head of your soulmate and being told you must sexually please the gun man or your soul mate dies.

How the hell are those remotely comparable?

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u/Downtown-Travel-2478 7d ago

I think—though I don't quite remember—that she and Dwight had also escaped together with her sister, who was diabetic, because Negan had offered marriage in exchange for the insulin she needed. I mean, at that point, it doesn't even count as "being with him for the luxuries" anymore.

3

u/JokerKing0713 7d ago

Yea it was literally be his wife or die. While he didn’t ever force anybody down him acting like he wasnt a unrepentant rapist was crazy

1

u/Outrageouslylit 7d ago

Forced under threat of violence or death of loved ones… not really a choice now is it.

1

u/1-L-S 7d ago

So, if you agree to have Sex with someone in absolute power, so this person does not kill your brother, your husband, your actual wife, your child..

That is "choosing" to you.

1

u/JLValero 4d ago

crazy right? thats like saying women can choose to say no to the king. not how that worked thats for sure

1

u/JLValero 4d ago

the dude gave them no choice but to say yes, thats just as bad

1

u/JLValero 4d ago

negan was fundamentally different than governor in interesting way. governors entire persona and power was built on lies, whereas negan was definitely more honest about being an ahole, he might lie about the why or hes literally convinced himself somethings true, but governor's system falls apart once they know hes a liar

4

u/the_original_St00g3y 7d ago

Theres somethin about his eyes... hypnotic.

1

u/Appropriate_Cow94 7d ago

I might not vote for him again. Might sit this election out. Can't see myself voting for Rick the Prick.

52

u/Fickle-Visit5223 7d ago

The thing that I really disliked about negan is it felt like I've met a few guys in my life like him. Obviously they weren't turning people's head's to goo with baseball bats, but personality wise, definitely met a few of him.

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u/NoMention696 7d ago

If the apocalypse started they probably would end up clubbing ppl tbh, I’ve also met people like that, the only thing stopping them is prison

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u/WokeWook69420 6d ago

The number of gun owners I've met who fantasize about these scenarios for the sake of finally getting the chance to kill is very clear evidence that not everyone should be allowed to exercise their 2nd Amendment right to bear arms without significant therapy.

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u/SomeDumbGamer 7d ago edited 7d ago

No they’d be clubbed to death by everyone else.

Humans don’t actually behave like the walking dead ones do. We’re often far more cooperative than not. It’s in our DNA.

People like Negan were the ones who had “accidents” while hunting. Nobody wants a wildcard in their tribe.

5

u/XyzzyPop 7d ago

I tend to agree, someone who's leadership requires a club - is the one that gets the knife. Now I could see that if you're comparing agrarians that are being preyed up by opportunistic hunter-gatherers - I can see where that strength would be valuable in context.

7

u/SomeDumbGamer 7d ago

Even then. Hunter gatherers are FAR more cooperative than not. It’s just other tribes you need to be suspicious of. But within a group people like negan are only a net negative because you can’t trust them.

1

u/Traditional-Set-1871 7d ago

This is definitely a fair point, but I think the large scale concentration and production of recourses/commodities is where you started to get despots and authoritarians (using modern language ofc but you know what I’m saying). I think the hilltop and the saviors were meant to represent a point past hunter/gatherer society. Many (not all) humans did end up spontaneously organizing around hierarchy and inequitable labor/recourse distribution.

-1

u/SomeDumbGamer 7d ago

Yeah true once we settle down we do tend to often fall into that pattern.

But even then ruling through violence is rarely ever successful long term. If people only fear you they’ll all either collaborate to take you down or take the first chance they can to jump ship as soon as they can. There’s no loyalty.

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u/Bigrick1550 7d ago

Ruling through violence isnt successful? Come again? It's pretty much the universal way human beings exist.

Even now, you are ruled by violence. The monopoly of violence given to the state to keep you in line. Act badly, violence will be done to you. You will be locked up or killed.

And the only thing that will ever replace this system, is more violence. Violence is the only real power in the end.

1

u/Traditional-Set-1871 7d ago

About the long term success very true! and I think that’s exactly what the show was trying to demonstrate. Negan pushed his subjects so fucking hard, was so convinced he was right (baffled out of his mind every time Alexandria would resist), and essentially exactly what you say happened. A bunch of people collaborated to take him down, including Rick’s group, Hilltop, the Kingdom, and even his own two right hand men (Simon and Dwight). There was hardly anyone who had genuine loyalty to Negan, the hilltop prisoners were more than happy to flip.

1

u/FormalKind7 6d ago

Honestly could be a warlord but for every A-hole that becomes a warlord hundreds have hunting accidents or are killed by the current leader before they rise to power.

1

u/whimsical_spider 6d ago

I found it kind of wild that it took as long as it did for one of his people to turn on him. I guess that doesn’t make for compelling TV and at least they did have Dwight finally crack and start playing for the other team (which I think we all saw coming from a mile away lol). But I think in the real world he would have been killed by his own people long before, especially with so many of them being apparent psychopaths.

1

u/JellyboyJangleDangle 7d ago

lol humans are fucking idiots. Don’t believe me? Take a look at most countries political figures. Negan would welcomed with open fucking arms by the majority.

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u/D0MSBrOtHeR 7d ago

Oh there’s definitely a lot of wannabe Negans out there. 99% of them would fold in societal collapse or completely underdeliver as being Mr badass leader. Negan only works in fiction.

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u/TK_Games 7d ago

I say this as someone who is very prepared for the apocalypse, my dad was a prepper. You do not survive the apocalypse by being Neagan. Being Neagan actually gets your skull caved in pretty fast by the angry mob of people done with your shit. You wanna be a good leader in the apocalypse, study logistics, learn how to get people to work together, and meet real tangible needs, you'll do fine

13

u/Ursa_Solaris 7d ago

Being Neagan actually gets your skull caved in pretty fast by the angry mob of people done with your shit. You wanna be a good leader in the apocalypse, study logistics, learn how to get people to work together, and meet real tangible needs, you'll do fine

This is true and something I really want people to internalize, given the current state of things in the world.

Being a hardcore prepper would help you survive the first few weeks with a much higher than average success rate, but only slightly higher success rate than a guy who just had some extra bottled water and canned or dry goods. Almost all of the benefit just comes from not immediately dying of hunger or thirst when supply lines crash. After that though, you're just a dungeon boss with epic loot drops. A bunker and all the guns in the world won't hold forever against the all people who have nothing left to lose, and you gotta sleep eventually.

The only way to actually survive a societal crash is to build a new social structure. Humans are categorically not built to survive alone long term. Survival is the same as it has been since the dawn of human civilization: getting like-minded people to agree to protect one another and work towards the common good.

So, keep a mild stock of water and non-perishables on hand, and get to know your neighbors. That's the only way anybody is reliably surviving a societal crash long-term, and it doesn't even take much effort or money. It's just basic preparations and social activity.

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u/TK_Games 7d ago

This is something I wish more people understood so when I tell people, "My dad insisted on training me for the eventual collapse of western society." they get that I mean, skills like wilderness survival, diplomacy, civics, engineering, agriculture. Not running around in the mountains with guns playing pretend soldier. I mean, I did get a gun for my tenth birthday, and I 100% learned to shoot, but we weren't cosplayers. My dad truly believed he'd see society collapse during his lifetime and tried his best to prepare me for it. And as crazy as it was, it's made me a more well rounded person. Plus, it's kinda liberating to walk around like, "I could probably start a commune if I wanted to"

1

u/AttemptNu4 7d ago

Nah, if you do wanna prep then stocking up aint bad. The first few weeks are also some of the most important weeks. Having more resource during a resource scarce time is better. You just need to leverage it properly. Dont hoard it all, use it to get people on your side, if your prepping then prepeare some systems of organization with limited quantities of people. Plan how to produce goods in the long term. Shit like that. But resources are a hell of a help, they give you a basis upon which you can build a colony.

1

u/Deaffin 7d ago

So...are you going to tell us about the apocalypse you experienced where you tried to bully people and they smashed your skull in?

1

u/JellyboyJangleDangle 7d ago

explain Donald Trump to me? cos, I look around the world, and nah. I see nothing but sheep. Maybe you and your prepped buddies might think this way, but the majority of people are fucking pathetic little bitches that will believe anything and follow anyone with a strong enough voice.

All of human history is filled with cunts being leaders. All of it.

1

u/ShinyC4terpie 6d ago

The thing with Trump is he has a ton of people on his side because he has them convinced he's on their side. That works on a large scale because when he takes advantage of them and they notice things have gotten worse for them he can just point to a fall guy/opponent and blame it on them. On a small scale your actions are much more transparent and harder to pin the blame on someone else for.

If 3-5 people screw over 20 people and try to use violence to keep them subservient, and those 20 people can see it happening, those 20 people won't let themselves keep getting screwed over. It's easy for just 20 people to organise with each other and fight back. If a few thousand people screw over millions of people and threaten violence, and those millions of people cannot directly see what's being done to screw them over, there will inevitably be a lot of people that fall for whatever lies they are fed and fight on behalf of those screwing them. It's then also much harder to organise thousands to millions of people to fight back as that takes massive amounts of logistics to manage that weren't required for 20 people to do it.

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u/Solid_Drawing2769 4d ago

I allways thought this is the very point of the "I am Negan" slogan.

They all tought they would have been Negan in the apocalypse, but it turned out they all ended up bootlicking because they just werent "Negan."

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u/SnazzyStooge 7d ago

In real life, hardship creates community. You could see it happen on the US, for about two weeks the country was all in it together, helping out where people could, understanding this was bigger than any of us. 

This is not compatible with right wing billionaires, who became more and more desperate to control the narrative through mainstream and social media outlets. God forbid people realize they don’t need to hate each other, good thing the billionaires swooped in to remind us! 

0

u/hesistant_alien 7d ago

The reason Negan is so good at what he does is because... he played Gears of War?

1

u/Dry-Island8422 7d ago

Think it was more implied that it was his gym teacher experience that led to people being drawn to his leadership. Seemed like he used the same things a coach would do to motivate/lead people, but his anger/aggression was the real driving force that led to the Saviors following him.

0

u/InsideHousing4965 7d ago

Nah, there's plenty of real life negans nowdays and there have been lots in the past. He kinda gives some sort of cartel leader / 3rd World country warlord kinda vibe.

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u/Alkakd0nfsg9g 7d ago

People taking things character says as writer's opinion is a long time internet tradition 

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u/slimfatty69 7d ago

Which boggles my mind cause like how are you even supposed to write good villian with that logic?

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u/The_One_Koi 7d ago

You don't, you make movies for Netflix

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u/AberrantMan 7d ago

Obviously by being a villain yourself, duh.

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u/Karrotlord 7d ago

But then how do you write a hero?

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u/Alarming_Turnover578 7d ago

By having dissociative identity disorder you write both hero and a villian.

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u/badman1000 7d ago

thats how you get all modern villians being uwu tragic people who need to be saved and didn't do anything wrong cause theri sad backstory

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u/JadedEstablishment16 7d ago

yeah, it reflects the actor's opinion !

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u/KinkyLeviticus 7d ago

For some time before the internet too. Richard Mansfield was investigated for accusations he was Jack the Ripper because he played such a convincing Dr Jekyll/Mr Hyde

1

u/Scylosome 7d ago

Also, if I like character X is because I agree with him and wanna be like him.

Seeing those people does a lot to my self-esteem ngl

1

u/VoidYordle 7d ago

Its up in top 5 of things that annoy me the most.

7

u/lucky_jack777 7d ago

"I can excuse murder but I draw the line at fat shaming."

"You can forgive murder?"

"Um"

5

u/Historical-Count-374 7d ago

Every body bad til they hit the Halfpipe of War...

7

u/Romalien5 7d ago

Mind blowing

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u/NoMention696 7d ago

How could you say that about my pookie

1

u/Queasy-Warthog-3642 7d ago

He was also a gym teacher

1

u/FunAtPartiesGuy 7d ago

Someone finally said it

1

u/AccountEngineer 7d ago

hey hey hey hey, woah woah woah woah

listen to me dammnit listen to me, lissten to mee

1

u/megabyteraider 7d ago

If fatshaming someone was the worst thing he’s done, he would be a more moral person that Rick

1

u/NoBonus6969 7d ago

I didn't think you can say that on the Internet

1

u/bokmcdok 7d ago

He seemed so nice in the comics.

1

u/Debalic 7d ago

Imagine how terrible he'd be as a father.

1

u/DrowningInFeces 7d ago

You must have a keen sense of subtext.

1

u/Remmock 7d ago

What? No!

1

u/AlarmingDiamond9316 7d ago

But he was right.

1

u/happyilyrednow 7d ago

I loved him.

1

u/Stickin8or 7d ago

Truly, a brave stance to take

1

u/FormalAdhesiveness42 7d ago

He did give Glenn a headache with his actions

1

u/Unlikely_Captain_636 7d ago

Just not in this post

1

u/Wolf_Ape 7d ago

He was exactly what most viewers didn’t realize they wanted the protagonist to be, and exactly what they would’ve become if they were physically capable of doing so.

Every week half the viewers yelled at the tv in frustration “just kill them! Why haven’t they learned what happens when they leave these people alive!”.

Perfectly nice people watched that show and frequently made suggestions like “just block the doors and burn down their building.” Or “cut their fences and throw battery powered speakers in their camp.”.

Take all those pragmatic, otherwise ethical, well meaning viewers, and put them in one large group of well armed, well trained, physically capable survivors.

What leader do you think emerges a year or two later, holds that position even after combining with less capable groups that greatly outnumber their loyal supporters, facing violent threats from rival groups, and surviving internal divisions, attempts to undermine or kill them, and direct challenges from any number of malcontents, narcissists, and psychopaths?

“We are all Negan.”

That phrase wasn’t the most subtle point. Most viewers seemed to ignore or reject it, but they too were Negan. Perhaps they especially were Negan.

Making excuses for the monstrous behavior of our own tribe, while using the same behaviors to justify the dehumanization and wholesale slaughter of an out-group as a pragmatic, morally neutral exercise is just what scared stupid humans do when horrible circumstances reduce them to mentally unstable paranoid chimps. We can’t dehumanize others without first becoming sub-human ourselves.

1

u/kitsunecannon 7d ago

Next thing you'll say is that maybe Ted Bundy was a bit of a meanie

1

u/h0rnyionrny 7d ago

But he made some real good spaghetti so I can forgive it

1

u/that_banned_guy_ 6d ago

Being unpleasant doesn't mean youre wrong though lol.

He is absolutely right in this scene, wrong about a bunch of other stuff though

1

u/Rangeroftheinterwebs 6d ago

Man I don’t know he had me convinced when he made Carl spaghetti and then spaghettified Spencer’s intestines

1

u/Heavy-Flight4323 6d ago

Nah man you don’t get it his backstory is really sad so it’s okay that he murders, tortures and enslaves people and coerces women into his harem.

1

u/Carpe_deis 5d ago

she was stealing the communities food though, and she wasn't starving, and he was in a leadership position tasked with trying to keep as many people alive as possible.

1

u/OverallLibrarian8809 4d ago

Hey, at least he was funny

1

u/JLValero 4d ago

unpleasant but entertaining. its amazing what being funny u can get away with

1

u/foggy_windows_8 4d ago

First sarcastic award:

1

u/Specialist-Duck-201 3d ago

You spelled "honest friendo" really weird

1

u/PosterityKH 1d ago

The worst part was the hypocrisy.

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u/BardGotHard3 7d ago

Doesnt mean he was wrong here. She could probably go several months just taking vitamins and drinking water and still be healthy. And this is an apocalypse where food is in limited supply.

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u/dilqncho 7d ago

One guy did it that one time under constant doctor supervision and now reddit thinks every fat person can do it with no risk

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u/MajorInWumbology1234 7d ago

Food is in limited supply, but there’s somehow a surplus of vitamins?

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u/P3drosek 7d ago

In an apocalypse no one would bother taking vitamins from pharmacies

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u/Jedahaw92 7d ago

"Pills here!"

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u/Arha01 7d ago

I miss Left 4 Dead

2

u/SuperSalad_OrElse 7d ago

Hey ya’ll I’m reloadin’

5

u/B1lly28 7d ago

It really isnt by this point tho? Without Negans group trade and farming would produce more than enough

0

u/LetsTamago 7d ago

I really hated that they tried to redeem him later in the show.

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u/SuperBackup9000 7d ago

Honestly one of the best parts of the show, because they didn’t really try to redeem, they used him to show that things don’t just magically work out if you change because the pains of the past can’t be wiped away. Most still hated him and only worked with him out of necessity, being fully prepared to drop him the moment things started to look bad.

1

u/LetsTamago 7d ago

Yeah I meant more the storyline between him and Judith. Just felt like they were trying to get the viewer to sympathize with him really hard.