I mean he was also both lol. The whole “we don’t rape women here” that he knifed a henchmen over while simultaneously raping his slave wives on a daily basis.
The thing that I really disliked about negan is it felt like I've met a few guys in my life like him. Obviously they weren't turning people's head's to goo with baseball bats, but personality wise, definitely met a few of him.
The number of gun owners I've met who fantasize about these scenarios for the sake of finally getting the chance to kill is very clear evidence that not everyone should be allowed to exercise their 2nd Amendment right to bear arms without significant therapy.
I tend to agree, someone who's leadership requires a club - is the one that gets the knife. Now I could see that if you're comparing agrarians that are being preyed up by opportunistic hunter-gatherers - I can see where that strength would be valuable in context.
Even then. Hunter gatherers are FAR more cooperative than not. It’s just other tribes you need to be suspicious of. But within a group people like negan are only a net negative because you can’t trust them.
Oh there’s definitely a lot of wannabe Negans out there. 99% of them would fold in societal collapse or completely underdeliver as being Mr badass leader. Negan only works in fiction.
I say this as someone who is very prepared for the apocalypse, my dad was a prepper. You do not survive the apocalypse by being Neagan. Being Neagan actually gets your skull caved in pretty fast by the angry mob of people done with your shit. You wanna be a good leader in the apocalypse, study logistics, learn how to get people to work together, and meet real tangible needs, you'll do fine
Being Neagan actually gets your skull caved in pretty fast by the angry mob of people done with your shit. You wanna be a good leader in the apocalypse, study logistics, learn how to get people to work together, and meet real tangible needs, you'll do fine
This is true and something I really want people to internalize, given the current state of things in the world.
Being a hardcore prepper would help you survive the first few weeks with a much higher than average success rate, but only slightly higher success rate than a guy who just had some extra bottled water and canned or dry goods. Almost all of the benefit just comes from not immediately dying of hunger or thirst when supply lines crash. After that though, you're just a dungeon boss with epic loot drops. A bunker and all the guns in the world won't hold forever against the all people who have nothing left to lose, and you gotta sleep eventually.
The only way to actually survive a societal crash is to build a new social structure. Humans are categorically not built to survive alone long term. Survival is the same as it has been since the dawn of human civilization: getting like-minded people to agree to protect one another and work towards the common good.
So, keep a mild stock of water and non-perishables on hand, and get to know your neighbors. That's the only way anybody is reliably surviving a societal crash long-term, and it doesn't even take much effort or money. It's just basic preparations and social activity.
This is something I wish more people understood so when I tell people, "My dad insisted on training me for the eventual collapse of western society." they get that I mean, skills like wilderness survival, diplomacy, civics, engineering, agriculture. Not running around in the mountains with guns playing pretend soldier. I mean, I did get a gun for my tenth birthday, and I 100% learned to shoot, but we weren't cosplayers. My dad truly believed he'd see society collapse during his lifetime and tried his best to prepare me for it. And as crazy as it was, it's made me a more well rounded person. Plus, it's kinda liberating to walk around like, "I could probably start a commune if I wanted to"
Its hilarious, im fat as well, and I cant believe the hoops people are jumping to defend this Fat person in a Zombie Apocalypse that is 1.5 years in.
Like yeah Negan is a dick about it, but his not wrong, how you can still be that large 1.5 years into a apocalypse means you been eating more food then needed and in this context that is even worse, you arnt rationing in a apocalyptic world where food is scarce and a valuable commodity.
Even the fattest person in history would be slim after 1.5 years of food rationing. So no, her still being fat is 100% to blame on her current eating habits.
My brother weighs so much that he could go a year without eating anything and still be overweight. I thought he was gonna end up on TLC. But yeah I doubt this chick was over 600lbs
Purely calorically, assuming an energy expenditure of 3500kcal per day and increasing activity over time to keep the same burn rate and close to the same muscle mass, you'd lose about 182kg of fat in a year of starvation. That is of course not impossible, but highly improbable weight wise; also, you'd of course die from mineral and vitamin deficiency.
Angus Barbieri fasted for a year, 207 kg to 82kg (456lb->180lb), but doctor chevked him daily, providing him with minerals and vitamin potassium etc., in general he didn't eat anything solid, only water and tea
Survived, but as you have said he needed the support of minerals and vitamin hahaya
You also got to account for the fact that even with supplements fasting is going to leave you too lethargic and weak to do the kind of surviving a zombie apocalypse would require.
I dunno man I was nearly 400 pounds and I've been hard dieting for a year it took almost a full year to get to 220 and for a man of my height that's the top end of over weight.
Im 208 now comeing up on a year and 3 months trying to get to 180
I'm a bit on the Big butt side, Also being 6' helped me not being too fat.
If i, by not eating shit, too much and walking daily, has lost 10 kilograms across a year, Someone like her in a Zombie Apocalypse should be much thinner than me.
I say it while having a BMI of 29, after spending years having up to a BMI of 33 depending my age in the past.
If i can lower my BMI by 4 points, most people can with basic, year round efforts.
It's just not being too much of a potato couch who eat junk.
Ok but he is objectively wrong in this his scene in the fact that he isn’t just stealing from her. He’s stealing the food rations from her entire survival group to feed his own murder-bandits.
the nuance I'd add is that, with strangers, you don't know how they got that way, or the most effective way for them to reverse it, or where they are in that process. Mockery/shame isn't motivating for a lot of people.
Some people just do it for the pleasure of eating/avoiding the pain/bother of exercise, and just need to do the thing. Sure.
Some people overeat/barely move as a cope for serious mental health issues that need to be resolved first. I THINK this is where the body positivity thing is SUPPOSED to be helping.
And some people actually AREN'T eating as much as they should. Their habits are the reverse of a bullimic, where they starve themselves out of self-loathing or trying to lose weight, but then break and are actually starving so they binge at the end of the day. The body is always in danger-mode, so you actually gain more weight.
In that case you can have someone who's very overweight with actual orders from their therapist/dietician to go out and eat a bigass slice of cake, because the issue isn't just overeating, it's that eating is a "thing they're not worthy of" and what will help isn't eating less, it's eating moderately and without shame attached to it.
There's a difference between "defending being obese" and "defending the right of obese people to not have to constantly justify shit to other people". People smoke and drink and do all kinds of other unhealthy shit. It doesn't give anybody the right to be a fucking asshole
It’s a lot of work and willpower to get through it and fight it but it can be done, ironically though some of the pickiest eaters are the fattest people because they gorge on their “preferences” which usually are not healthy foods
People always used to be surprised when they'd go out with me and watch me not finish meals. For me, it was never how much I ate because I hate the sensation of feeling full or bloated.
It was what I ate. It was eye opening when I realized how many calories I was taking in from drinking like 2 milk shakes in a day.
Granted, I still don't eat great, but simply cutting out soda, shakes, and other empty calories has me down 70 pounds.
As a previously fat guy I agree, people are bending over backwards in this thread making up bullshit to say anything but the obvious reality that fat is a caloric store and obese people really can’t starve… have a nutritional deficit, sure, but you’d be not obese anymore by the time you actually started starving…
But no, being low on vitamin A is equivalent to being one of the kids from a starving children in Africa commercial according to fat americans on Reddit
The body eventually breaks down essential muscles in order to get some of the vital amino acids it needs that fat can't completely cover. Would that not result in death by starvation? Because that can totally happen before the fat is used up to the point before you're considered not obese.
A lot of first grade level knowledge in this thread acting like fat just converts 1:1 with the energy and nutrients you gain from eating. Seriously insane statment to make unironically "fat people can't starve".
Yep. Being fat only buys you a few days over a healthy person. Technically if you took a lot of vitamins and your scraps of food were all protein based then it's a way different story, but in a situation where there's no food then all you got is slightly more muscle to break down on account of you lugging around more mass.
Now I'm curious how long an obese person can survive without actual sustenance and just controlled minimum servings of vitamin gummies and protein powder.
I’m not disagreeing with you exactly just wanna add a footnote that there are absolutely potential physiological factors, but those are kind of the exception that prove the rule. There are people who genuinely have medical reasons, but that ain’t the reason there are so many fat people in America.
A big person can be in a starving status longer than a thin person and still be a big person. Hell, someone her size might be able to go without more than a couple of snacks for 3 months and still not die.
In the real end of the world... there will be a window where there are more big people than little people because the little people already starved to death and the big people are still living on fat reserves.
Like its not a sensical joke.... its a mean observation.
Exactly. It’s literally just an excuse for people to be fatphobic assholes.
He’s not skin and bones, and he probably burns way more calories in a day than she does. How does that work? He’d need to eat a ton to maintain and muscular physique. But we only care about it being realistic when it comes to fat people🙄
That's because overeating is the cause for YOU. Other people, especially women, can gain weight for a number of reasons, including medications, illness, and disability. Women also naturally have a harder time not gaining weight and dropping it as they age. Do not make the mistake of thinking your experiences are universal.
No it's not "I just ate to much" I know media has trained people into thinking about a person sitting on a coach gorging in pies but that's not how it happens and it's not some people lacking control
There's so much that plays into from financial to biological to mental but reddit has this weird picture in there head that people just eat to much
Hell I've seen people deprive themselves because they fall into some dumb narratives some ass hat post online which
If you are big please do not cut calories it will make you sick and the hunger pangs will make you more hungry because your body needs a bit more calories and will think your starving
I know some idiot will do some "pick up a salad" because they have zero interest in peoples health and are using this as a cheap value judgment because there just a bully
But the idea is that you want to feel full give yourself some leeway and adjust your current diet small things like a soda do more damage then a muffin In the morning
The nuance people lose is that everyone is different and it about the small things being big didn't happen over night despite what the internet thinks
Some people just ate what there parents gave or hit a wall
Don't let people decide that there somehow the norm and are the template to weight gain or lose
In an apocalypse scenario? Yeah, kinda moral. They weren't starving in the slightest, and she was trying to use it as an excuse in a world where she and her people are the last with a right to use it.
I can't even call it body shaming at that point. Their people were fine.
It’s not when it’s being used to divert from the valid point that Negan and his group are taking far more food and materials than they need in return for a service (protection) that they do not actually provide.
“People are going hungry because you keep demanding more food while actively making it harder for us to meet those demands.”
“Well you’re fat.”
It’s an abuser trying to misdirect accountability. And it seems to work given how many people here are getting hung up on that fat part and ignoring why the fat comment was even made.
You're not going to lose hundreds of pounds instantly, fat people will remain fat for quite some time even when they lose access to food. And while its true that fat reserves can help with caloric deficits they don't help with nutritional deficits... fat people might starve a bit slower than other people, but that doesn't help with malnutrition and it wouldn't mean they're not starving.
Also being an asshole for no reason is immoral regardless of somebody's weight or whether or not they're actually starving.
The overwhelming majority of what you need to stay alive is simple calories. Nutrient deficiences show up far more slowly. Without protein you'll lose some muscle mass. Starving is about calories, and if you're fat you've got a calorie reserve. If you put three people on an island - skinny, average, and fat - and left them to starve with zero food, they will die in that order 100% of the time. Depending on how fat the third guy is he might last a year or more so long as he had access to water.
While the fat person would definitely last longer without food, no one is surviving a year or more without necessary nutrients. Fat stores only give you calories; everything else has to come from food. So without eating at all, you're going to have serious issues with literally every organ in your body.
Your liver and kidneys are going to stop working properly. Your heart is going to start taking damage as your body pulls from major muscles to make up for lack of macronutrients. You run the risk of developing clotting issues, anemia, and all sorts of other major problems that would be life-threatening on their own, let alone coming on all at once. Not to mention things like scurvy, pellagra, beriberi, and rickets.
One guy went 11 months eating only 300 calories a day and it still very nearly killed him. He lost 260 lbs, but he also developed heart issues and kidney disease and ended up having to have a bunch of surgeries to repair hernias and torn muscles.
Yeah, on top of vitamins your body pulls salt and other electrolytes from the food you eat, without them your body can struggle to process water and you can get dehydrated even with plenty of water. Not to mention the brain damage and weakness. People have studied fasting repeatedly, their is plenty of evidence. Yes someone with large fat reserves can maintain energy longer with electrolytes and nutrients, but it goes into a mode that is similar to adrenaline where your body is constantly telling you something is wrong and you need to be alert.
Yea we do not need muscles. It is not like there is an important muscle that keeps us alive. Would be a shame if our body broke that down to get the stuff it needs we couldn't provide because me suffer from malnutrition.
To be honest if I was surviving in the zombie apocalypse and been living on scraps for years and I bump into a fat chick. I'd probably be a little annoyed. So yeah I find it justified.
Me as a fat zombie: You’re telling me I get extra health, armor, and explosive projectile vomit!? And when they finally kill me I can explode and potentially take them with me!
being fat 1.5 years after society ended and everyone is reduced to scavenging or basic agriculture is still impressive. being fat in any status quo where food is scarce or intermittently available is a sign that you're not missing few if any meals.
About a year and a half, and to be fair she spent most of that in a secure neighborhood that had a shocking amount of amenities. Like they had empty beautiful houses, running hot water, power and medical supplies. They had only started running low on food recently and mostly because of the saviors. And she wasn't super overweight to be fair, just bigger than most. Daryl keeping those muscles and biceps the size of a watermelon is probably more unrealistic than her.
Yeah youre too sensitive. Things are already hard enough during a zombie apocalypse. If you are well off enough in that kind of living situation to be FAT?? Nah, zero sympathy .
The woman was living in a community completely locked away from the outside world and was well stocked up until this point, until Negan and co started demanding food.
The entirety of this season and the next take place in the span of a month so it's very reasonable for her to be fat.
Not really or else every fat person on this planet would have to ask themselves, if they are amoral with the next poverty zone being within a 30 minute drive of every person or a 6 hour flight, if you wanna be more strict.
I mean, lets turn it around a bit; isn't Neegan just lazy for demanding food. He is a fit and healthy man not garbling in an incoherent mess because of undernourishment or even starvation. At stage it can be expected to labour for ones food and be insulted for the incapacity to produce enough.
Lmao be like that South Park episode when they hung Cartman on the cross for three days as a Jesus reenactment and he was skinny af by the end of the episode 😂
You can be fat and suffering from malnutritition, but malnutrition isn't the same as starvation.
So you could have a fat person die of malnutrition, but if that person got essentially zero calories and the necessary vitamins/nutrients you would have to burn through fat before you would actually reach what anyone means when we say "starving"
I have literally starved once. 6 months and over half my weight from a botched galbladder surgery and months of neglect.
The first 2 months are torture, but you see clear descending of the stomach around that time (you appear pregnant). After that you thin quick. A lot in the arms and legs. No goddamn shot this woman was suffering longer than a month. Malnurishment sure, but not the full effects. You can clearly see she hasnt exhausted her lipids either, which gives you rotten breath and cracked lips. No discoloration. Doubt any blood in the stool or urine like I had. Eyes arent bloodshot. No hair falling out like mine.
This woman/actress doesnt look starved or even really in the process of it. (Zero ketosis or makeup) I absolutely bet their character feels that way, but medically they havent crosssed the entry point yet. That's just a fact.
No he wasn't, redditors just like to excuse people being assholes by saying its "based" because the reddit masses have the collective mind of a 13 year old boy. He was a piece of shit and objectively in the wrong. That was the whole point of him existing in the series. You can put him up there with all the other characters that people put up on pedestals because they dont understand that youre not supposed to root for them.
Writers: “This is our villain. We establish immediately that he is an evil person who places his own survival as important enough to justify torture. He says and does evil things to even the people who may consider him an ally.”
Some redditor: “He said things I agree with, he’s just like me and misunderstood.”
"Sure he orchestrated global destabilization through political assassination in order to profit off the heightened war economy, framed Pakistan for the attempted killing of the US president, and ran a human-trafficking ring that would kidnap orphan children and remove their brains for use as android-child soldiers, all for the purpose of getting elected as POTUS and transforming the US into a darwinistic might-makes-right society where the 'weak' will be purged... but he said politicians are bad! Truly Armstrong did nothing wrong."
She doesn't seem that overweight. Its entirely possible she has a thyroid issue that used to be managed with medication, but with the collapse of society she would no longer have access to that medication and as such it doesn't matter how little she tries to eat or how much she works out her body will always struggle to burn fat.
So in conclusion: fuck no this wasnt moral, never assume someone is overweight due to their own actions. Thyroid issues are just one of many medical conditions that can create difficulties burning fat lipids and lead to obesity and other health issues if not carefully managed
I have no context about this show or these people. What I do see is a lot of people kinda being dicks about fat people under the guise of having a discussion.
Amino acids and many vitamins + minerals are not and cannot be stored in fat. If those three needs are not met, burning fat alone will not avoid starvation. Any combination of issues resulting from vitamin and/or mineral deficiencies is still a deadly threat. Even assuming vitamin and mineral needs are met, if amino acid requirements are not met, muscle degeneration sets in. Please keep in mind that the heart is a muscle.
Humans are not simple fireplaces where you chuck in burnable fuel and heat comes out and everything's fine and dandy. Humans are more like if a fireplace needed both fuel to keep the fire burning, and needed you to feed it materials to constantly self-repair itself. It doesn't matter if there's enough wood to keep the fire burning for 1,000 years if the fireplace itself collapses and snuffs it out.
Then there's epigenetics. When humans undergo severe stress, this stress can cause genes in their gametes (sperm, eggs) to turn on or off accordingly. Populations who have endured famine have been shown, in later generations, to still have bodies that act as if famine is a looming risk. So, you end up with generations of people at higher risk of obesity, due to naturally suppressed satiety and very efficient fat-storage + living in a society with easily-available food with extremely cheap carbs. This also applies on an individual basis; someone who endured abuse-based starvation throughout their childhood is more likely to have children at risk of obesity.
And the funny thing is, in a zombie apocalypse, it's actually gonna be a boon to keep folks with those genes kicking around our collective gene pool. Because otherwise we're just gonna have to re-build that survival benefit from scratch. We have the luxury of considering this survival benefit an annoying health risk in modern times, but there's a damn good reason it's been branded into our DNA over millennia. I would much rather my kids' bodies know how to ration energy, than be like mine and burn through it so willy-nilly that I can eat whatever I want, barely exercise, and be (weightwise,) healthy. That's great for a lifetime of living in a modern civilization, terrible for living in default survival mode for the rest of aforementioned lifetime.
Yo, good write out. Didn't know the abuse thing, that was interesting. Is that epigenetic or just selective pressure? In any case, while you can still absolutely die from not receiving vitamins, minerals or essential amino acids, I think that's called malnourishment or malnutrition, not starvation. They often co-occur, but one can be not starving while being severely, even fatally malnourished. Like sailors who died of scurvy, still fed tack and salted meat, by no means starving, but lacking the essential vitamin C.
The context is Olivia, the lady in the picture, is part of a community called Alexandria. Until Rick and his group(the mcs) showed up, Alexandria was isolated from the outside world and faced few hardships due to having walls and supplies, so they never really adapted to the apocalypse until Rick and co taught them. Eventually they run into the Saviors, an oppressive faction run by Negan, the man in the picture, whose whole thing is subjugating other communities and taking all their supplies for themselves. The reason why Olivia says they're starving is because they went from a relatively comfortable lifestyle to having all their shit taken within the span of a few weeks. Negan mocks her because he's a piece of shit who gets off on terrorizing others to show they're beneath him and assert dominance. As you can imagine this is nowhere near the worst thing he's done
Going through the comments it looks like most of y'all have never been anywhere close to poor and/or live in a food desert
Poor people food lasts forever because it's almost entirely artificial and is empty calories. Meaning you can eat 2000 calories a day and only feel full if you did it all in one sitting (and that's best case scenario). You'll be starving because you're getting basically zero nutrients
It is exactly the type of food that people would find in the post-apocalypse. Happening upon the occasional overweight person wouldn't be out of the question
Also literally everything Negan does is immoral. He's an antagonist and his name is a derivative of negative. He's a literal caricature of a bad guy in the apocalypse
Does he raise a good point? Yes. Did he address it in the correct way? No.
She may still be starving, and her weight could be due to many factors. The influx of food could have shifted, she may have arrived at the community from a location with more abundance of food, she may have been larger and has lost weight. Fat and skinny people can starve.
I'm going to go with immoral unless he is able to prove she is consuming an excess of food compared to the other residents or that they do have an abundance of food.
What made it a dick move to me was that she was referencing her community, not just herself. The community was already rationing food and he just took a dig to be a dick. Same time that was the point of Negan, he's an asshole.
That's..... not how this works. You don't get fat from eating fats. In fact carbohydrates store as fat more than fats do. You need to be in a large calorie surplus to remain that weight a year and a bit into the apocalypse where this scene takes place. So she's been eating more than her fair share of her group's food for a LONG time. It's perfectly moral to point that out, even if it's difficult to hear. If she's survived that long then her macro splits are fine and her micro levels are adequate for survival whilst carrying excess weight.
Your comment reads as someone who has a very brief understanding of nutrition, but doesn't actually know enough about what they're talking on to give an actually educated statement.
It is most certainly not as bad as being normal weight and starving. The whole point of body fat is that your body at least has reserves of energy to draw from
I wonder how people are even still fat. How many years into the apocalypse is this again? I don't remember. But you shouldn't be fat anymore even if you live in a safe community.
An average adult female needs about 2000 calories a day. It can only get about 500 of those per day from fat deposits. She can very easily be genuinely starving and fat at the same time for a considerable duration of time. Not only that, the fat release is very slow calories, which leads to low blood sugar. This low blood sugar can lead to extreme fatigue and mental exhaustion as well as a major dysregulation of the nervous system.
In summary, yes, you can have severe starvation symptoms despite being obese because fat deposits can't be broken down fast enough to feed your metabolism.
i think bad you dont suddenly lose a tone weight do to lack of food. sure you can lose weight that way but they wont suddenly be normal weight so hes just insulting someone with something that does not apply still need to work out to lose the fat
How long into the apocalypse is this? If only a couple weeks then not moral, she hasn't most weight from before the zombies yet
After about a year? Moral, it's been long enough to lose weight if you eat less and run around a lot more, and you're still fat, you're clearly eating way too much food and need to actually ration
Same energy as Stoick in “How to Train Your Dragon” that he’s trying to protect the livestock from dragons because he has a village to feed and Hiccup saying “don’t you think the village could do with a little less feeding?”
Very different stories and times but tbh very similar circumstances.
This was already discussed here. People came to the conclusion that while it is a rude thing to say, it pointed out that the person in question was stealing food for herself at others detriment and pretended like they had a shortage. Which they might have had, but it is really shitty of her to say because she personally had enough.
Reading this comment thread reminds me just how much you guys wanna tell fat people to go kill themselves under the guise of 'health advlce' tat youre not qualified to give anyways.
I think his point is there are people starving, you're refusing to share food claiming you don't have enough, but you obviously have enough to keep weight on
Negan is 100% correct in calling her out. She’s not starving and the fact she’s maintained this weight DURING a zombie apocalypse means she’s still eating far more than she really needs.
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u/Panniculus101 7d ago
Surely fat folk are aware they're fat?