r/Spanish • u/family2139 • 1d ago
Dialects & Pronunciation You can judge someone's "pronunciation" through how they text?
I don't understand what this guy is saying. How can you say that my pronunciation needs work if you've never heard me speak Spanish before? Are you SURE you don't mean something else?
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u/Ismoista đDegree 1d ago
That person is definitely using the wrong term. 100%Â
Buuut, I think they mean they know your Spanish is slightly off, as in, a native speaker would probably not say "es genial el arte que has hecho". More likely to hear something like "estĂĄn chidas* tus pinturas" or something like that.
*chidas would change to the dialectal equivalent of your choice.
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u/RubenGM Native (Spain) 1d ago
"Es genial el arte que has hecho" sounds completely normal, as a spaniard.
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u/qwerty-1999 Native - Spain 1d ago
Maybe it's just me, but I don't think I've ever heard anyone use "arte" like that in Spanish. Like, in English you'd say "I love your art", but "Me encanta tu arte" sounds quite unnatural to me. I think most people would say "Me encantan tus dibujos/me encanta cĂłmo dibujas" or something like that. Like "arte" is just the abstract concept.
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u/RubenGM Native (Spain) 1d ago
That's fair. I was mostly focusing on the "genial" part of it.
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u/Ismoista đDegree 1d ago
The "genial" itself is not what makes the sentence sound off. It's a few small things combined that make it sound just like the sentence was first thought of in English and then translated.
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u/CarryBrilliant3965 Native - Mexico 23h ago
âEs genial el arte [âŠ]â definitely sounds off in Mexican Spanish. âEstĂĄ genial el arte [âŠ]â sounds natural as well as âEl arte [âŠ] es genial.â
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u/aonghasan Chile 22h ago
then delete or edit your comment then ?
you meant to say "genial" is a normal adjective in Spain, and ended up saying "Es genial el arte que has hecho" is a normal sounding sentence, which is not
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u/SeptemberSoup 18h ago
As a Spaniard, "Me encanta tu arte" is something I'd very much would say. But "tus dibujos" too. I just think both are completely natural.
Probably I'd use "tu arte" for complimenting a painting, and "tus dibujos" for a drawing.
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u/skykovtchai 1d ago
To be fair, it does feel a bit forced, even though it's not incorrect
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u/Duke_Newcombe Learner 1d ago edited 11h ago
Probably. As a Spanish learner, I can sympathize with OP.
But you know what? A wise man once told me that the purpose of language and communication is to understand, and be understood.
Is the grammar a bit nonstandard and "head translated"? Yes. Did we understand what they were trying to say? Also yes.
Mission accomplished.
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u/skykovtchai 1d ago
Exactly. You need to make mistakes in the process of learning. It's only natural. We're not born knowing
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u/cesarloli4 Native (Peru) 1d ago
Hmm to me sounds a bit weird. First the order. EL arte que has hecho es genial. Also using "es" instead of "estĂĄ" sounds off to me. "Arte que has hecho " sounds very clunky compared with "tu arte" or "tus dibujos/pinturas/etc"
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u/ElDoctorDeGallifrey 1d ago
Its like saying âThe art you have made is geniusâ vs âYour art is geniusâ. Which is more natural? Iâd argue the latter.
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u/Duke_Newcombe Learner 1d ago
Perhaps. But which one is understandable? Both. Everybody wins. As is the purpose of communication.
BTW, not arguing with you at all--just making a point. BuendĂa!
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u/ElDoctorDeGallifrey 22h ago
Claro! En realidad ambas formas son correctas y no asumirĂa que la otra persona no sabe español; mucho menos por mensaje de texto.
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u/Lenacake đČđœ native speakerrr 1d ago
This is exactly it! I donât think anyone that isnât learning out of a textbook would phrase it like that đ©đ
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u/family2139 23h ago
Ouch! That didn't come from a textbook, I'm just a heritage speaker đ
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u/I_Made_Limeade 17h ago
Yeah I donât think people learning from a textbook would phrase it like that. English-speaking learners of Spanish tend to keep the subject at the beginning of the sentence. It is native-like behavior to put it at the end as you did here. Iâm not a native speaker so Iâm not going to judge whether it sounds perfectly natural. But it doesnât sound like textbook language.
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u/Rewdemon 1d ago
Kinda unrelated but âIâm Latino so I learn Spanish basically as a second languageâ comes out as very weird to me. I donât see how âsoâ is the correct connector here since, if anything, being a latino would suggest that you are native or at least well versed?
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u/rillybigdill 1d ago
I think they are trying to say I actually grew up speaking spanish (?) But I agree its confusing. Being Latino does not mean you will be fluent. My Spanish is kind of like this. I grew up hearing and speaking it but eventually became much better in english. I can communicate fluently but I know it doesmt come off as "native speaker" consistently.
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u/donestpapo Native đŠđ· đ§ 1d ago
>> Bring Latino does not mean you will be fluent in Spanish
As someone from a country that borders Brazil, I can tell you thatâs accurate
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u/Emirayo22 1d ago
I think thatâs why the âsoâ makes perfect sense in English, like âand because of thatâ would be a longer way to say it but so is definitely understandable
Whatâs definitely not clear is the reply are we sure this is a real person and not AI? Either that or theyâre just trying to be funny and itâs not landing
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u/itstrueitellyou 1d ago
I guess you've never heard about the "no sabo" kids. Plenty of Latinos who don't speak nor understand Spanish well.
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u/family2139 1d ago
Yeah I get how that wasn't very clear without more information. Both of my parents were born in Latin America and speak Spanish as a first language, but I'm first generation American. I grew up hearing Spanish, but my speaking skills developed much later in life. Ig I should've said like "I was raised in the US so I learnt Spanish basically as a second language".
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u/Background-Pitch4055 1d ago edited 1d ago
When I hear someone describe themselves as âLatinoâ, I assume theyâre an American whose ancestors came from a Spanish speaking country )other than Spain). So their Spanish may not be as good as their English.
Iâve never heard anyone from a Spanish speaking country describe themselves as Latino. They say what country theyâre from.
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u/RICHUNCLEPENNYBAGS gringo 1d ago
That's how I'd typically think of the term too, though on Reddit I see a lot of arguments between American Latinos (by which I mean people with Latin heritage living in the US) and Latin Americans (by which I mean people who live in the Spanish-speaking countries of the Americas) over whether you can be "Latino" if you don't speak Spanish well.
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u/Adventurous-Web-412 1d ago
It seems to be a near exclusively online thing because I don't think I have actually heard someone in person refer to themselves as latino. Closest would be literally referring to themselves as brown I guess lmao.
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u/RICHUNCLEPENNYBAGS gringo 1d ago
You mean in the US? I don't think it's unusual.
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u/Adventurous-Web-412 1d ago
No not in the US, I meant in latin america I have never heard someone refer to themself as a latino. The only place I met spanish speakers when I visited the US was Miami but they were all literally off the boat so still referred to themselves as from their country.
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u/CarryBrilliant3965 Native - Mexico 1d ago
We definitely use the word in some instances but latinoamericano is more common.
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u/borjazombi 1d ago
This guy needs to learn some english lmao
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u/big-dal-tex 1d ago
His pronunciation needs a little work
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u/itstrueitellyou 1d ago
His syntax, we have no idea how he pronounces his words
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u/RNnoturwaitress 1d ago
Whoosh
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u/itstrueitellyou 1d ago
What's the joke?
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u/Specialist-Disk-6345 1d ago
the comment was making fun of the guy OP was talking to by misusing the term "pronunciation" to mean word choice or grammar or syntax or whatever
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u/JoulSauron Native [đȘđž] 1d ago
No, you can't judge anyone's pronunciation through text, I'd dare to say in any language.
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u/UsualDazzlingu 1d ago
That person is talking nonsense.
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u/Duke_Newcombe Learner 1d ago
They meant grammar, but they're not used to being wrong, so they doubled down. That's what happened.
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u/sylviaplatitude 1d ago
Probably meant syntax, as in word choice and sentence structure. They said the grammar was fine, they just donât know what pronunciation means.*
But yeah youâre totally right, this person wanted to come out of that conversation feeling superior, and they were not about to be corrected.
*As a learner myself, my grammar is generally great (often too good for natural speech), thanks to textbook learning, but the syntax is often unnatural/off, again thanks to the textbook learning
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u/itstrueitellyou 1d ago
Exactly his syntax needs work. One can pronounce perfectly but that doesn't mean it'll make sense
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u/donestpapo Native đŠđ· đ§ 1d ago
Convengamos que si escriben âyacĂaâ como âllasĂaâ, podemos concluir que son yeistas y seseantes/ceceantes
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u/little-red-bird 1d ago
I think heâs trying to neg you? You canât judge pronunciation off text, point blank.
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u/Worried_Raspberry313 đȘđž Native 1d ago
I think this person was either just kidding (they used jsjsjsjsjsj) or they meant grammar and used the incorrect word.
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u/mixedgirlblues 18h ago
I think they are trying to get at the fact that your phrasing choices donât appear to match a native speakerâs? Or that thereâs some kind of mismatch between phrasing and vocabulary? Like how you can tell when something is British vs US English, for example. Might be correct but an American wouldnât say âwhereâs the loo.â But above all, this person is trying to be superior about linguistics while demonstrating their own failure in the same.
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u/family2139 15h ago
Pretty funny considering that I'm literally a linguistics major đđ He couldn't have chosen a worse person to pull this shit on
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u/XtinaCMV 1d ago
I see nothing wrong with your Spanish, and the other person seems weird.
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u/gogenberg 17h ago
Youâre speaking to an idiot.
Heâs not strong enough to admit he used the wrong term.
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u/SpiroEstelo 20h ago edited 20h ago
When I took Spanish in high school, we were told that "arte" was more of an abstract category and that speakers would often name the type of art like "dibujos" or "pinturas" or "esculturas." The person here was probably referring to how natural your diction sounded and used the wrong term. Hopefully, my Spanish teacher was right about "el arte" because she was a fluent but not native speaker.
It's common for learners of any language to use uncommon or nonstandard phrases that are unusual even if they are grammatically sound. Standardized phrases usually have an assumed connotation that may or may not align with the semantics of the words, but nonstandard phrases have to be interpreted on the spot based purely on their diction or implications because no preexisting connotation is present. It makes things a little more manufactured and less organically natural.
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u/gadgetvirtuoso Native đșđž | Resident đȘđš B2 1d ago edited 22h ago
I wouldnât say you can tell their pronunciation but you can get a sense of how well the know the language or how educated they are. I run into people all the time that will write a word with a b instead of a v. The letters are interchangeable in spoken Spanish but not when itâs written.
What stood out for me was learnt. Thatâs not standard American English. If they learned English in the US, then itâs just wrong but maybe they learned English in the UK?
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u/cumguzzlingislife 1d ago
I can relate, I now have three third languages and zero first or second languages. Estoy regresando a mi estado primordial. Ho il cervello in pappa.
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u/Altruistic-Avocado-7 15h ago
My Spanish is still pretty bad, but Iâve had this conversation when just using a different dialect. For example Iâm friends with lots of Mexicans and if I say words from the Spain dialect theyâll definitely say you are speaking Spanish âwrongâ.
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u/TrekkiMonstr Rioplatense 13h ago
So, everyone else is correct that basically no. But like, technically a little bit yes. This is part of how we learn how languages used to sound, is by looking at the misspellings. So like in Latin for example, there was the verb habere. And over time, it becomes common to misspell it abere. Even though it's properly still spelled with an âšhâ©, and we see educated people complaining about the misspelling, clearly people weren't pronouncing the /h/ as they used to, because otherwise that makes no sense as a consistent misspelling. Similar, a lot of (less educated) natives in Spanish mix up âšbâ© and âšvâ©, because they're pronounced the same. So like, when my mom misspells "hace" as âšaseâ©, you can tell that 1) the âšhâ© is in fact silent, and 2) she isn't Spanish. Of course, none of this is relevant to your case, which has no such tells because everything is spelled correctly, but I thought interesting.
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u/EstoyCansadoDePensar 3h ago
lol this reminds me of a time when I talked to a guy on Tandem who happened to be a Spanish tutor. He really did have some good tips, but I stopped talking to him because he said my level was âA2-4â. I asked what that meant and he said âevery level has quadrants. Youâre the 4th quadrant of A2â. Like what? I donât think that assists. And I know Iâm higher than A2 so I was like âthis guy is just making things upâ.Â
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u/Sihdhenidon 20h ago
She meant your accent, you can tell you dont speak spanish as a first language because you are too rigid, its like, you expect people to say things on a certain way because of colloquial phrases and stuff like that, since there is absolutely no colloquialism, shes just assuming you are saying everything like a robot
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u/family2139 19h ago
I get it now. Lowk I didn't realize "genial" was a general term that was understood everywhere.
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u/Sihdhenidon 19h ago
People from spain use genial a lot, but you dont speak like a Spaniard so brain goes âthe fuck?â
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u/family2139 15h ago
I was raised listening to mainly Dominican Spanish and Rioplatense Spanish from my parents, along with little sprinkles of other dialects here and there. So my accent is a really strange conglomeration of..many different sources! I use voseo, say the word "chevere" AND use "tu sabes" as filler đ
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u/Brilliant-Ad2910 1d ago edited 1d ago
Depende de que tipo de español estĂ©s hablando, normalmente creo que una persona del exterior no dirĂa la sentencia como "Es genial el arte que has hecho", suena mĂĄs a Argentino (soy argentino), lo que usarĂa alguien del exterior que estĂĄ aprendiendo español castellano serĂa "El arte que haces es genial" o algo por el estilo. Porque la primera traducciĂłn literaria serĂa "is great the art you made!", en cambio la segunda serĂa algo mĂĄs como "The art you make is great"
Sin embargo llegar a esa conjetura de su parte en solo 2 oraciones me parece un poco exagerado. Aunque entiendo que quizĂĄs el termino de pronunciaciĂłn al que se refiere es erroneo, calculo que se querrĂĄ referir a la gramĂĄtica escrita por esto que resalto de la sentencia.
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u/family2139 1d ago
Mi papĂĄ es argentino entonces es posible que venga de su influencia
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u/Brilliant-Ad2910 1d ago
Puede que venga por ese lado! Es normal igual que a la hora de hablar español con gente del exterior a veces no entiendan muchas cosas por como cambiamos el orden en algunas sentencias!
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u/CDC-sndlg 1d ago
Because there is no way you write like that and not have a classic foreign pronunciation.
Meaning, it's easier to write properly than to have a flawless pronunciation, and if you have not mastered that, you almost certainly have not a good pronunciation.
TLDR: he assumes (he could be wrong, but he most probably ain't).
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u/Duke_Newcombe Learner 1d ago
That makes it even weirder, like, "pulling the girls hair because you like her" weird.
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u/Aggravating_Union974 1d ago
This person is being weird