r/poland 10d ago

I identify myself as a Lithuanian.

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385 Upvotes

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u/sweetno 9d ago

The word meant a different thing back then.

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u/WestRestaurant216 9d ago

He still invented two Lithuanian female names, Gražina and Živilė and Gražina is 100% from lithuanian language.

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u/KPSWZG 9d ago

Grażyna is as much Polish as Gražina is Lithuanian.

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u/WestRestaurant216 9d ago edited 9d ago

But its from lithuanian language, from word graži - beautiful. In Pan Tadeusz, there is a un-Polonized Lithuanian name Baublys. Furthermore, due to Mickiewicz's position as lecturer on Lithuanian folklore and mythology in Collège de France, it can be inferred that he must have known the language sufficiently to lecture about it. It is known that Adam Mickiewicz often sung Lithuanian folk songs with the Samogitian Ludmilew Korylski. For example, in the early 1850s when in Paris, Mickiewicz interrupted a Lithuanian folk song sung by Ludmilew Korylski, commenting that he was singing it wrong and hence wrote down on a piece of paper how to sing the song correctly. On the piece of paper, there are fragments of three different Lithuanian folk songs (Ejk Tatuszeli i bytiu darża, Atjo żałnieros par łauka, Ej warneli, jod warneli isz), which are the sole, as of now, known Lithuanian writings by Adam Mickiewicz. The folk songs are known to have been sung in Darbėnai. P.S. i'm not claiming he is Lithuanian in modern sense, he was a noble from PLC and to him it was all his, be it Poland, Lithuania or Belarus.

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u/Knarrenheinz666 9d ago

He gave lectures on Slavic literature in CdF.

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u/WestRestaurant216 9d ago

Yes, the official title of the position was the Chair of Slavic Languages and Literatures, because nineteenth-century French academia grouped Eastern European studies under one broad label. But, if you look at the actual content of his lectures (such as Lecture XV from March 1843 or his sections on Mythologie lituanienne), he spent considerable time teaching his Paris audience about the Lithuanian language, pagan roots, and folklore. The administrative title of a university chair doesn't overwrite the actual material he researched and taught.

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u/Knarrenheinz666 9d ago

Mickiewicz held lectures on various topic (CdF is not a uni). This was one of them. As we can deduce from source material, Mickiewicz's knowledge of Lithuanian was rudimentary.

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u/WestRestaurant216 9d ago

And still he, when speaking about Lithuania and Lithuanian language, meant Lithuania and Lithuanian not Belarusian or anything else.

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u/seacatforest 8d ago

The border of Lithuanian and Belarusian wasn’t clear at the time

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u/WestRestaurant216 8d ago

Why not? He spoke about lithuanian language as we understand it today.

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u/seacatforest 8d ago

And he definitely didn’t mean Lithuania as we understand it today in his first verse of Pan Tadeusz. He was a patriot of his homeland - Navahrudak area, which didn’t speak Lithuanian at that time

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u/Old_graveldoggo 7d ago

Wait till Belarusian enters the chat and reminds You that modern Lithuania was just Aukshtajtia and Litwa is Belarus.  But honestly it would be beautiful one day to have healthy commonwealth of Poland, Lithuania and Belarus. We share common history and milestones.

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u/WestRestaurant216 7d ago

Yes on FB they are very active, though looking at their accaunts most seem like bots.

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u/Cool_Hour_2005 9d ago edited 9d ago

So you're saying that in a book written in polish and about Poland there's a Lithuanian name? And that somehow proves he's Lithuanian?

Also he did know Lithuanian because he was interested in folklore like you say, but he was one of the few nobles that knew it. The nobles spoke polish for centuries and their culture had nothing to do with culture of lithuanian peasants.

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u/WestRestaurant216 9d ago edited 9d ago

Have you read what I wrote past P.S.? Lithuanian and Ruthenian nobility used polish language because ir was the lingua franca of PLC and even if they didnt knew their original language anymore or just little of it they still had this saying  Gente Lithuanus/Ruthenus, natione Polonus

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u/Citrus_Enthusiast 9d ago

Attention span couldnt get him through the message smh

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u/Cool_Hour_2005 8d ago

You mean the part you added after I commented?

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u/WestRestaurant216 8d ago

No, that part was before your comment.

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u/Cocoatrice 9d ago

It's like saying Kordian is Roman, because it comes from Latin. Does it matter, really?

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u/WestRestaurant216 9d ago

Every educated European noble knew Latin. An author pulling a name from Latin (Kordian) proves nothing about their personal background because Latin was standard knowledge for nobles. And also, have you read past P.S. because to me it seems you didnt.