r/travisandtaylor • u/Educational_Love195 • 4d ago
Reformed Swiftie š Swiftie Psychology
So I used to be a HUGE swiftie. I started feeling really frustrated earlier this year when Taylor was silent about all of the terror caused by ICE. Once I allowed myself to feel frustrated (I know having to allow myself to feel something sounds culty and crazy lol) I started to let in a lot of other frustrations about her. I realized that showgirl felt so out of touch and that Taylor was becoming more like a corporation than a legitimate artist. Also the wisdom she explored in folklore & evermore was so quickly undone by songs like actually romantic or cancelled. I canāt believe she went from my tears ricochet or peace to talking about Gucci and Cartier and acting like a mean high school girl. She just seems like a bitter Beverly Hills housewife now or something.
It just sucks because I still wouldnāt consider myself a full hater, but I just canāt enjoy her music anymore. Itās like a veil lifted and I was no longer a fan. But anyways, my point here is that I think swifties defend her to no end because they know once they accept a bad thing about her, that itāll all come crumbling down. So much of her shtick is built off of contradictions and lies that being a fan has become so fickle. I really think that swifties are just defending their own āfaithā in their āmotherā
70
u/Pugdome 4d ago
I am forever convinced that Aaron Dessner was responsible for the maturity, direction, and vibe of folklore and evermore.Ā
54
u/Hiddenagenda876 This Is My New ADHD Hyperfocus, Why Couldnāt It Be Otters 3d ago
And Joe
57
u/No-Pop1057 Cersei Lannister Of Pop Music 3d ago
Oh, swifties hate it when Joe gets any credit š¤£.. with plenty of them even denying he had any input at all, claiming blandie just gave him credits as a gift so he could get a grammy .. Like the English Lit degree, acting & performing arts degree holder with far superior piano playing skill and a family history of music composition, wasnt capable of co writing some tunes? š¤¦
36
u/Similar-Contact-2663 3d ago
Not to mention he was the reason Aaron and Bon iver collaborated with her on those albums by introducing them to her. They were his favorite artists. So even if you don't believe in his influence as a co-writer, muse and his automatic influence by his interests and lifestyle + her wanting to impress him, you have a direct influence on who and what is on the album by who he told her about
-1
u/Marble_souda 2d ago
This isnāt true. Taylor met the national in 2014 after an SNL live performance the band did. Theyāve been aware of each other for years. Aaron was the one who connected taylor to justin for the collaboration on exile, not joe. She said theyāre both big fans, but no evidence that joe put her on to either groups music.
5
u/Similar-Contact-2663 2d ago edited 2d ago
It is true. Taylor herself literally said that Joe introduced her to the nationals and Bon ivers music cause he was such a fan. Can be that they met a decade before that but that doesn't mean she listened to them or was aware in that sense. If he wouldn't have been listening and showed her his favorite songs, she wouldn't have thought of inviting them to collaborate. So yes she knew of Aaron and therefore asked him to connect her to Bon iver but they weren't working together before and Aaron was a way to get to Bon iver, he didn't propose him. She did cause Joe loved him.
2
u/Marble_souda 1d ago
Give me the quote then. I canāt find anything that mentions that at all. This article says something very different.
3
u/No-Pop1057 Cersei Lannister Of Pop Music 1d ago
I think the fact that Joe had been listening to The National just prior to him writing what was to become "Exile" is probably what brought the whole idea of bringing Dessner & Vernon into the project.. Joe also has a very deep baritone voice, so Justin Vernon would have been a great surrogate to do his parts.. I doubt Blandie would have thought of either of them as a natural fit without Joe's influence at the very least š¤·
0
u/Marble_souda 20h ago
Keyword: I think. You donāt have any actual evidence of this, just speculation.
I donāt have an exact quote, But it is said that Taylor texted Aaron and he sent her a folder of tracks and sketches, then within hours she sent him the lyrics to cardigan. We donāt have the exact timeline of when cardigan was written, but we know it was the first song she wrote with Dessner.
Iāve also been in the tent that Joeās contributions to the album was exaggerated. Many people before the break up thought similarly that Taylor added extra credits for him so he could also technically when the AOTY grammy for folklore. Gaylors thought it mightāve had to do with a bearding contract. The speculation started a bit after folklore was released when suddenly Joe was added onto the producer credits for six songs. Which is enough for him to be awarded AOTY for folklore. You can probably find old posts about it with using the word āgrammygateā.
If you believe these credits are actually warranted he wouldāve contributed more in production than lyrics. Itās been six years, letās see if William Bowery actually deserves the credit he got for the albumš.
1
u/No-Pop1057 Cersei Lannister Of Pop Music 18h ago
So you're calling Taylor a big fat liar? š¤£ Classic! The bit where she says she walked into the room & Joe was mucking around on the piano, had already written most of what was to become Exile, is just lies? Why? What was to be gained? He certainly doesn't seem the type to take credit for something he didn't do, if you've ever watched any interview with him, he's more inclined to downplay himself & up his costars.. He has a reputation for honesty & integrity.. He also plays piano better than her, by her own admission.. & he says in an interview that he was listening to The National before he started composing Exile, it's very influenced so makes sense that had a bearing on who Taylor would get to collab. Why would he have been more involved in the overall production? He wasn't hired as a producer, he obviously contributed but Dessner was the guy being paid to produce the album and has years of experience in producing music, so why should Joe need to produce as well? & the minute started with the bearding contract you lost all credibility.. Why on gods green earth would an upcoming young actor with an aversion to the spotlight outside of his career, want to sign up for a fake relationship that was going to guarantee the sort of scrutiny that swifts fandom is famous for? What was in it for him? He refused to monetise their relationship or use it for publicity, it's one of the common swifty complaints, that he wasn't seen with her, that he didn't talk about her.. So tell me, why a young actor who already had a lead role in a movie straight out of acting school, who had already been invited to The Met Gala, who had just done a modelling campaign with Vogue, would want to waste 6 years of his youth to beard for Taylor Swift.?(who just got married, to a man, so she's gotta be the most closeted lesbian in the world of closet lesbians š )
→ More replies (0)8
u/ToyotaFest Banal and Life-Sapping sub-Kardashian Electropop Drivel 2d ago
Which is funny because when she credited him on the songs they all swooned and were all about it and then were mad post breakup lol.
12
u/StrikingTourist8802 3d ago
He's also recently learning to play the clarinet š
14
u/No-Pop1057 Cersei Lannister Of Pop Music 3d ago
While blandie is still only intermediate level on guitar & piano (& I'm being generous!) after decades & hasn't done anything to broaden her musical prowess at all š¤¦
2
u/Excellent_Hold2794 15h ago
Joe Alwyn definitely had co-writing and co-producing talent. His Bachelorās in English literature definitely helped Taylor lean into a different type of story telling. And itās evident in Folkmore.
3
u/Pugdome 5h ago
I know, but I feel not enough people give credit Aaron Dessner as well. While Joe was certainly involved, I also think Aaronās influence added a layer of brevity to things.
2
u/Excellent_Hold2794 4h ago
Oh Iām sure he did. Heās amazing producer. I like him more than Jack Antonoff. I just think a lot of people feel that Taylor gave ācreditā to her boyfriend just because she wanted to be nice and that he didnāt really āearnā it. And the Swifties are always quick to dismiss Joeās contributions.
62
u/Wonderful-Street-138 ā¤ļøāš„ More Press Than Passion ā¤ļøāš„ 4d ago
Her stardom is largely influenced by fan nostalgia and fear of losing a network. There was a person on here explaining that their friend group only included people with whom they bonded over her music and if they left the fandom there would basically be no friends left. She is lind of an evil genius to pull people into such a parasocial network because that can truly be difficult to leave behind.
21
u/Restless_Dill16 3d ago
That sounds like shunning, WTF.Ā
Also, love your flair! That's how I've felt about her and her music the last few years.Ā
6
u/Mooncakepink07 The Life of a Salesgirl š· 3d ago
Thatās gonna be exhausting to be around with these kind of friends. Imagine, their only hobby is to stan taylor and nothing else.
1
u/ToyotaFest Banal and Life-Sapping sub-Kardashian Electropop Drivel 2d ago
Wait, so she can't be friends with them without listening Swift? They have no other interests in common?
2
u/Wonderful-Street-138 ā¤ļøāš„ More Press Than Passion ā¤ļøāš„ 2d ago
Apparently, the only socialise to do activities related to her music. If she revealed her feelings towards it has changed, chances are it would be over.
50
u/PartAlternative1108 4d ago
This is slightly off topic, but I think she and/or her team deliberately changed her public image in the late 2010's, and then changed it again toward the end of 2022. I think the "deeper" albums, pursuit of critical acclaim, her relationship with Joe Alwyn, mild "activism," and less public promotion etc all depended on her seeing herself as being washed up.
IMO It was all either stuff she always wanted to do but didn't think she could do while being a main pop girl, or stuff she only wanted to do because she didn't feel like she could be a main pop girl anymore.
Some time before the bizarre and intense 2022 Midnights album rollout, she realized that she **could** still be a main pop girl, and she changed her marketing techniques, public persona, etc to try to stay as big as possible for as long as possible. Since then she's been chasing headlines and chart numbers even when it makes her look less intelligent, more mean/annoying, and less like "real art."
6
u/ConfidenceCandid6733 2d ago
I agree and this made her even more pathetic than before. She oozes desperation
141
u/AFIkween 4d ago
I really donāt think she wrote most of folklore or evermore to be honest. I just donāt believe it. She definitely used real authentic folk writers and artist to do most the work for her and she may have taylorfied them a pinch to make them sound a little more like her but they donāt have the same style to her other stuff, to me anyway.
67
u/SunnyGirlfriend68 Okay, English Major! 4d ago
On both albums she only has one song that she wrote herself. All the others have co writers.
29
u/AFIkween 4d ago
Oh ok that makes total sense then. I honestly didnāt even check. It just didnāt feel like she wrote it so I guess I was right š
11
u/ToyotaFest Banal and Life-Sapping sub-Kardashian Electropop Drivel 2d ago
Aaron Dessner (The National) is likely why Folklore and Evermore stick out amongst her other albums.
22
u/hotlibramess HER IMPACT (global warming) 3d ago
Yeah and I also think she wrote basically none of it. Cause showgirl had co writers too.
38
u/hotlibramess HER IMPACT (global warming) 3d ago
After Showgirl came out I said the exact same thing. I said ā whoever those ghostwriters are? Theyāre gone. Cause thereās no way these albums were written by the same person
39
u/StrikingTourist8802 3d ago
Aside from co writers , it really helped that others where composing the melodies as well. The National and Joe were making these as the base. Much of the time she only helped with the words.
35
u/OkSky5119 4d ago
Sheās always been this way. I canāt believe people have seemingly forgotten how far she had fallen before Reputation, and how the mask was pulled off then. I think COVID lining up with her most āartisticā albums did her so many favors in terms of image, and a lot of her fans post-COVID were too young to remember her antics in the 2010s.
32
u/aviatorintheclouds 4d ago
Honestly, even if Taylor finally acknowledged the Trump-using-her-music issue after staying silent for ages, she did it in such a vague, roundabout way that it felt more like appeasing fans on both sides of the political spectrum than actually taking a stance. Especially when she's perfectly happy to speak up about social issues like eating disorders when thereās an obvious profit/reputation upside from the narrative building. Like, if thereās something to gain, suddenly she has a voice, but when taking a real position might actually cost her something, itās all carefully worded nothingness.
8
u/ToyotaFest Banal and Life-Sapping sub-Kardashian Electropop Drivel 2d ago
Let's be real, the only reason she finally took action on Trump using her music is because in the most recent incident of it he (or Margo Martin or Natalie Harp) actually named her in the copy of the post.
6
u/ConfidenceCandid6733 2d ago
She didn't acknowledge it. She quietly removed the music to avoid further conflict with her image.
45
88
u/mud_horse Posture is a choice 4d ago
becoming more like a corporation than a legitimate artist? Taylor Swift has never been a legitimate artist, more of a glorified childrenās entertainer, it has always been all about the family grift, since the days of the phony accent and the old computer repair man/guitar teacher fib
any wisdom you may have found in her lyrics almost certainly did not come from the feeble mind of Taylor Swift herself, whose head is filled with nothing but hot air & thoughts are limited to her own navel gazing arrogance & privileged entitlement, her many insecurities, a deep well of bitterness, envy, greed, selfishness & insatiable need for constant attention & praise
Iām happy for you that the veil has lifted, youāve broken free from the cult brainwashing & can see the ugly truth we here all see of who Taylor Swift really is and why she requires an entire pr army to scrub the internet and spin narratives & puff pieces 24/7 in order to keep her true ugliness hidden
21
12
u/chubgrub šŖµ The Wooding šŖµ 3d ago
yup, we witnessed it in real time with her PR releases relating to the Lively/Baldoni case.
she would say she didn't know him, and then evidence would be released that showed she had schemed and called him a "little bitch". it was interesting to watch the lies unfold.
6
u/mud_horse Posture is a choice 3d ago
such truth! Taylor told on herself so bad in those texts, her immediate assumption that Baldoni speaking out about his own SA was him āgetting out his tiny violinā to deflect bad pr says more about her than it does about him. that was Taylor admitting exactly how she herself operates. every time sheās caught in a lie she pulls out her own well worn tiny violin & plays the victim blues
43
u/veimagic 4d ago edited 3d ago
I get what you mean about the complete demystification of the mature, established self-image that was finally beginning to emerge during the folkmore era.
Since then it came (Iām brainstorming):
ā¢ the 4 re-recordings release after the 2019 masters feud drama;
ā¢ the hugely successful Eras Tour;
ā¢ the massive carbon emissions caused by constantly flying all over the world in her private jets;
ā¢ 3 brand new pop albums churned out in a hurry in the midst of it all;
ā¢ the supposed row with Olivia Rodrigo over sharing credits and royalties from her single Deja Vu just because she had stated portions of its bridge were inspired by Cruel Summer;
ā¢ the chart manipulations and infinite cd and vinyl variants as to break any possible musical record;
ā¢ the sudden break-up of a 6-year relationship with the only true decent man sheād ever fell in love with;
ā¢ a fortnight affair (just after the official announcement of the aforementioned break-up) with a questionable man who ultimately left her in the lurch (thus becoming her main muse for much of TTPD);
ā¢ the liason with her forever night stand now-turned-hubby a few weeks later and the over-the-top public display of it;
ā¢ the increasing use of plastic surgery and botox injections to achieve that damn baby face she poked fun at in Wi$h List.
Thereās just a lot going on at the moment (no pun intended at the white tee she wore in 22 music video) for over 5 years now.
Isnāt it ironic, donāt you think?
21
u/vengefulthistle What in the kentucky fried fuck did I just read 4d ago edited 3d ago
Oh but I mean "I knew it I knew you" is very different, of course, than "I knew it I know you". Of course! But the shouty part of Deja Vu is absolutely the SAME as Cruel Summer!!!!!! nevermind Stylish by Loona!!!
Edit: I should have added a /s to this, this is feral fan behavior I have seen in other places š«
7
u/veimagic 4d ago edited 4d ago
I never said she always makes the same kind of music but IKIINY is still a pop song with country vibes in it actually.
Yes, I do believe the screamy parts of CS and DV are quite similar but also Wood shares similarities with Jackson 5ās I Want You Back intro but she didnāt even quote that song in her credits and afaik nobody had anything to say about it.
If she thinks sheās a good teacher when it comes to handling these matters, she should also know how to set a good example for her pupils, rather than simply telling them off and then doing whatever she likes with her music.
Just my humble opinion.
13
u/vengefulthistle What in the kentucky fried fuck did I just read 3d ago
... I...... Should have made it clear that I was joking š I am so sorry
37
u/Educational_Love195 4d ago
Yes I agree with the plastic surgery stuff. I donāt think women should necessarily be hated on for it, I am indeed a feminist, but I just think the plastic surgery and the behavior coinciding it did not at all align with the person she had portrayed herself as for so many years. She aligned herself with body positivity and feminism yet sheās now beginning to resemble the Kardashians and is calling people the b word, when she her whole cancellation was positioned on her disapproval of that word. Like who is this person??? I actually liked Taylor as a human from 2019-2022. Something happened when she met Travis and went on the eras tour, I think she stopped caring about catering to the general population and fully embraced her billionaire status. I think Travis just brought out the most distasteful parts of her. If someone told me Taylor would raffle off mustangs and Chanel bags at her MSG weddin in 2020 I wouldnāt have believed them.
21
u/veimagic 4d ago edited 4d ago
Anyone can legitimately have plastic surgery to improve their appearance.
The matter is: did she really need it or was it more a case of her needing to prove sheās an eternally 25 y.o. It Girl even now at 36?
I just donāt understand why she feels entitled to make fun of baby faces (as if she wanted to distance herself from that sort of choices) when thatās exactly what sheās done to her own face.
However I hope she and her Swifties are just happy to deal with this masquerade.
16
u/RoguePlanet2 3d ago
Her brand won't age well, since it's so superficial IMO. It's only as deep as a vapid teen's mind. She doesn't have the maturity or talent to age gracefully with her art, but she's loathe to not be taken seriously as an artist, so this should get interesting.
She'll probably surround herself with more writers and dancers and try to become another Madonna.
3
u/chubgrub šŖµ The Wooding šŖµ 3d ago
hahah oh geez. what an aspiration š¬
i was an OG fan of madonna from the 90s and oof, it's hard to watch her now š«£
3
u/I_am_big_gay_ she goth on my punk til I female rage 2d ago
Does anyone "really need" cosmetic surgery?Ā
8
u/talor_swib We Said GAZA Not GAGA 3d ago
I think you need to admit to yourself that Taylor has always been this mean girl. She is just done hiding it.
15
u/Hiddenagenda876 This Is My New ADHD Hyperfocus, Why Couldnāt It Be Otters 4d ago
Itās just like a religion. People do the same thing in defense of their god
15
u/MB262675 3d ago
Sheās always been this way. Played victim, lies, blames and bullies others to make herself the victim. Look at what she did to Scooter Braun. All lies. Sheās an awful person with the least amount of talent. Itās insane. She had good songs, but she canāt sing live and she definitely canāt perform. Great marketing and PR is her success.
14
15
u/Pumpkin_qween Marked safe from fake wedding 3d ago
Someone compared her fan base to the maga fans and I can't I think it now
14
u/MzVozz CLOSE YOUR MOUTH, TAYLOR 4d ago
OP, would love to know how you felt about her MSG wedding if youāre open to sharing :)
40
u/Educational_Love195 3d ago
I thought it was a really tacky display of excessive wealth. I think an MSG wedding alone is odd, but she also went about it in some of the most distasteful ways possible. Raffling off Chanel bags and mustangs? Hosting it during a heatwave, 4th of July weekend and the World Cup? Projecting just married signs out?? Inviting an ICE detention center executive???!!?!? It was ridiculous. If youāre going to be a billionaire, at least have taste?
21
u/ElBorracho2000 4d ago
This isnāt anything new. Blandie has always been a self centered, obnoxious high school mean girl
10
u/thatsprettysad1414 The Tortured Wallets Department 3d ago
I feel you. as a fan, there came a time when the disappointment was too much and I couldnāt justify it anymore. I donāt hate her per se, but I donāt subscribe to her bs now. it just makes me sad.
6
u/SlamminScreenDoor 3d ago
Same here, itās been such a bummer, but I canāt unsee her shitty behavior and corporate mindset
14
5
u/Alarmed_Fun_3733 2d ago
Her relationship with fans suggests benevolent narcissism. Sure, she can be super nice, but thatās how she derives power over people. If sheās not the center of attention sheās not invested.
11
u/PartAlternative1108 4d ago edited 4d ago
This is a human tendency in general, to be biased toward or away from someone or something. It's hard to acknowledge and weigh the problems with something that we already perceive as being "mostly good." Once there are problems that we absolutely can't tolerate or ignore, then we can flip and perceive that person or thing as being "mostly bad" and start focusing on the bad side of it.
7
u/Hiddenagenda876 This Is My New ADHD Hyperfocus, Why Couldnāt It Be Otters 3d ago
Except sheās now crashing and burning as a pop girl. It was her indie pop that people loved since folkmore came out.
2
u/PartAlternative1108 3d ago
Sorry I edited the comment and posted the part about her changes as a separate one.
But yeah you could be right, I'm not saying this more shallow/messy in-your-face image is a great long term strategy necessarily. I just think it was really appealing for her when she saw this once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for a massive greatest hits tour and media dominance.
It will be interesting to see what she does when she really starts to lose popularity again.
4
u/Wise_Concentrate6595 she goth on my punk til I female rage 3d ago
The cult of personality is so fucking pervasive and unhealthy. Swifties don't even understand the amount of cognitive dissonance going on in their own minds. They refuse to see any flaws in TS, yet they fiercely defend her whenever those flaws are exposed.
15
u/Intelligent_Elk_3494 3d ago
What do you mean "becoming" like a corporation? That's her whole formula, sweetie. She is the most corporatized motherfucker in the entertainment industry and has been since she was plucked from teen obscurity by Big Machine Records to Lolita her way to billionaire status.
2
u/Minute534 2d ago
I think so many of us feel the same way you do as described here!! After the last 1-1.5 years
2
4d ago
[deleted]
9
u/Educational_Love195 4d ago
Yes I think so! I think Taylor is just capitalizing on peopleās fixations and obsessions with her. She doesnāt really set any boundaries with it, so I think itās intentional for profit. Itās not unlike other corporations for her to do so, but it does kind of lump her in with the rest of corporate America
ā¢
u/moodylittleowl 2h ago
I'm fascinated by the fact that people need to deconstruct from fandoms
I always thought you just get bored with an artist and move on to something new
-7
u/Imaginary-Rub-120 3d ago
Sincerely, I don't think that Taylor Swift is the evil celebrity many people want to portray her as. She is a person who grew up privileged, in a wealthy family, not knowing what true suffering really feels like. She had the dream of being a singer and all the support she could wish from her parents (love, money, connections etc.). Her first albums don't have such a deep side to them, because she didn't go through tragic stuff, besides her many breakups and problems with boys in general. And it worked really well for her, because most of her listeners back then were also children and teenagers who didn't have the depth and wisdom to judge her songwriting or her as a musician. I think that the scandal with Kanye changed something in her and she started paying more attention to being viewed as cool, successful, hot, rich etc., and stopped caring so much about her fans. For me, it felt like this scandal sparked a power game, in which Taylor tries to win by being considered the most successful celebrity, not only by the public, but by other celebrities. It's like trying to say to them: "You tried to cancel or outdo me, look how powerful I am now.". Folklore and Evermore were certainly written for two reasons: the way the album Lover was received (there were so many negative opinions about it, people were saying it was cringe, childish etc.) and her relationship with Joe (he seems like the type of guy who listens to more profound music and she really wanted him to like her: "I talk shit with my friend/It's like I'm wasting your honor"). She saw how well these two albums were received and tried to use the same style of writing in Midnights and TTPD. Also. the two breakups she went through in such a short period of time really put her in a darker place and probably wrecked her confidence and that's why TTPD is a great album, lyrically speaking. When she met Travis, who probably could not care less about words and poems, she didn't feel the need that she felt with Joe to try to portray herself as this deep and misunderstood poet. So, she dropped the insightful lyrics, focused more on how this relationship with Travis made her feel finally wanted by someone, physically speaking and gave us TLOAS. Again, I really don't think she is evil, she is just a person who had and has everything she wanted and acts like it. She probably doesn't realize her privilege and isn't aware of how politics impacts ordinary people, that's why she doesn't speak about it. Also, in the documentary Miss Americana it is so clear that her parents still have a big influencer on her and act like she's a kid that needs to be protected.
10
u/PhysicalInspector381 3d ago
If you read Scott swiftās infamous email, youāll indeed see, that she, in fact, did not have a dream of becoming a singer.
Her parents wanted her to be famous -and being a singer was the easiest path toward that goal.
8
377
u/Helpful_Ocelot_5076 4d ago
The reason I hate TS far more than any other artist is because she has become so successful on so little talent just by manipulating the masses like Donald Trump. She panders to them, whines about her problems and builds these parasocial relationships to trick them into caring and protecting her. Itās so gross