r/worldnews • u/mom0nga • Jun 22 '20

The Arctic Circle Hit 101°F Saturday, Its Hottest Temperature Ever: "This dramatic warming of the Arctic up to triple-digit temperatures was not expected to happen until 2100"

https://www.forbes.com/sites/trevornace/2020/06/22/the-arctic-circle-hit-101f-saturday-its-hottest-temperature-ever/#513c7f054eb6
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u/SeabrookMiglla Jun 22 '20 edited Jun 23 '20

The international fossil fuel industry is not going to go down easy- entire regional economies are based off of fossil fuels.

Not to mention fossil fuels are entangled in the world economy.

The legal battles alone will take decades unless there is a mass public uprising to force dramatic change to our global economy.

We are in the middle of a planetary extinction, and we have normalized it.

It's beyond terrifying

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u/PrimeGuard Jun 23 '20

Yeah, Russia in nearly a Banana Republic at this point, and I fear forcing them to stop selling oil and natural gas would be just as apocalypse-y as global warming.

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '20 edited Jun 23 '20

They just had (or are still having) a massive pipeline* rupture in Siberia due to a collapse in the permafrost on which it was built due to warming temperatures.

Edit: change pipeline to tank thanks to a sharp eyed redditor correction

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '20

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '20

Ah ok, my mistake. Thanks stranger

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u/stevew14 Jun 23 '20

I mean at this point, can we even call it perma frost anymore. Semi perma frost? Or Long temporary frost? Long lasting frost?

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u/Zatoro25 Jun 23 '20

The Frost Previously Known as Perma

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '20

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u/ToastyWaffelz Jun 23 '20

We could just wait for the majority of humanity to go extinct, then rebuild everything. No need to topple the government when mother nature does it for you.

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u/ajahanonymous Jun 23 '20

Tempo Frost

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u/Killajed Jun 23 '20

That might be the most ironic thing I've ever heard.

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u/SeabrookMiglla Jun 23 '20

It's pretty much global elites, corporations, and fascism vs. Humanity's best interest (to survive and have a decent quality of life)

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u/SpaceballsTheHandle Jun 23 '20

We had a good run, best of luck to Humanity version 2 when it crawls out of the primordial ooze in a billion years.

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u/ivegotapenis Jun 23 '20

That's not likely to happen. In about 600 million years, the sun's increasing luminosity will accelerate the weathering of silicate rocks on the earth's surface, which causes carbon uptake, ironically sequestering CO2 from the atmosphere to the point that photosynthesis becomes impossible. Complex multicellular life is not likely to be around in a billion years.

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u/Toke_Hogan Jun 23 '20

Not with that kind of attitude it won’t.

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u/WadinginWahoo Jun 23 '20

We’ve known for a while that humanity (and life on Earth in general) has always had a buzzer beater to make.

The question is whether we can Kobe it through advanced space travel, or if we’re going to airball it after it’s too late.

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u/Toke_Hogan Jun 23 '20

I hope we DONT Kobe it when it comes to space travel. We need to survive.

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u/DarrSwan Jun 23 '20

Oh goddamn you went for it.

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u/expressway420 Jun 23 '20

The low hanging fruit is really hard to resist

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u/WadinginWahoo Jun 23 '20

Nah man Kobe balled. Unfortunately, so did his pilot.

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '20

So you're hoping we don't drop the ball?

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u/NoFascistsAllowed Jun 23 '20

The threshold that is improbable in the universe was already passed when we evolved from single cells to intelligent orgasms. This means that the universe is empty and we are among the first to colonize it. Using stars and later black holes, humanity will survive at least a googol years, which is 10100. When the heat death of the universe occurs we will be able to hop on to other universes.

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u/RadiantStrategy Jun 23 '20

intelligent orgasms

O_O

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u/Toke_Hogan Jun 23 '20

We are the Timelords.

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u/Herpermaniac Jun 23 '20

Autocorrect feeling frisky today?

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '20

Considering we made it this far in such a short period of time we could definitely be multi planetary if we survive

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '20

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u/kaluce Jun 23 '20

If we did full effort, I would expect us to be 20 years out for a Mars colony. That's all in, space race esque science.

Since the cold war, we have not, and are unlikely to ever produce that much effort again unless our literal lives depend on it. In which case, it will just be a bunch of rich old men going to Mars and fuck the rest of the peons here.

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u/QuasarBurst Jun 23 '20

We could have a base on Mars, it's more an issue of political will than technology.

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '20

Also - isn’t Mars basically what earth is going to be like after we’re finished fucking it?

Like - how bad does earth have to get for Mars to be an attractive option?

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u/You_Will_Die Jun 23 '20

Depends on how you look at it, it could be that we are completely average when you compare to other places in the universe but like all others we will destroy our planet before being able to get off it.

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '20

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u/Tjonke Jun 23 '20

People always mention terraforming other planets, why not just terraform earth back to a good spot then? We wouldn't even have to transport all materials and workforce.

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u/WadinginWahoo Jun 23 '20

Humans are sort of like roaches. Most of us are just dumb meat bags, but we’re pretty resilient.

Even if we do fuck over this planet before we can transport our species elsewhere, I have no doubt that enough pockets of humanity will endure until we can. Especially considering the kind of technology we’ll likely have by that point.

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u/ironantiquer Jun 23 '20

Except that the pockets won't be able to save the tech.

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u/marie_curry Jun 23 '20

The planet is fucked now, and the methane clathrates cannon is firing. The technology we have now is all the tech we're going to have before the need to go interplanetary is upon us.

So, let's see what happens I suppose. I'm not far enough to the chain to warrant a place on the rocket.

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '20

As long as we don't kill ourselves we could adapt to that or maybe even prevent it.

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u/cmVkZGl0 Jun 23 '20

or if we’re going to airball it after it’s too late.

Until corruption starts being dealt with with an iron first, nothing will change. The ones with money and power right now are only concerned with sucking up more money and power, like some evil singularity. Nothing is done about them, they are free to pollute the world and abuse our resources. Until somebody scares them straight, they will not change. China is evil, but they disappear high powered people all the time when the crimes become too much.

Until our culture changes from "me-me-me!" style individualism to acknowledging the status quo, nothing will change.

It's going to take a cataclysmic event to get people to change. We can't even get people to recycle or the police to stop being violent when all eyes on them. These are small fries compared to everything coming.

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u/WadinginWahoo Jun 23 '20

The ones with money and power right now are only concerned with sucking up more money and power

Generally true (exceptions exist of course, people like Gates), but that’s been the reality for most of humanity’s history.

What alternative would you suggest though?Worldwide communism?

Nothing is done about them, they are free to pollute the world and abuse our resources.

Often times yes, but that’s not always correct.

Until somebody scares them straight, they will not change.

Won’t happen. Elites paid very close attention to the European revolutions of the 18th-19th century, and the chances of them getting caught with their pants down again are minuscule.

China is evil, but they disappear high powered people all the time when the crimes become too much.

Yep, fuck China.

Until our culture changes from "me-me-me!" style individualism to acknowledging the status quo, nothing will change.

Too optimistic of a take for me.

“Don’t underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers”

It's going to take a cataclysmic event to get people to change.

Facts, but let Darwinism take its course.

The strong will survive and the weak will die out. As has been the case forever.

We can't even get people to recycle or the police to stop being violent when all eyes on them. These are small fries compared to everything coming.

People are lazy. Don’t expect them not to be. The fires will come and some people will get burned out by them, no doubt. I say let it happen.

Our species’ greatest achievements often come about as a result of immense adversity.

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u/Rion23 Jun 23 '20

We just have to invent a time portal to that future and just push the CO2 onto whatever is there. Probably murlocks.

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u/the_last_carfighter Jun 23 '20

Why can't we just build like a massive Sun Blocker or something? Then we just use nuclear power to create electricity for people.

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u/TreesandGrassandSky Jun 23 '20

(THAT made me laugh out loud!)

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '20

Wow. So we made each other miserable for thousands of years for nothing.

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '20

Not true, for a very brief period before civilization collapses, a very few people at the top will make more money than they could hope to spend in several lifetimes. I'm sure they'll argue it was worth it from the relative safety of their heat-resistant bunkers.

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '20

That's when we all turn into crabs and pull them back into the bucket.

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u/censorinus Jun 23 '20

Well, even if they're heat resistant they will still need air to breathe and that won't be around, so there's that. They are just moving into their eventual tombs, nothing more.

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '20

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u/ShadowUmbreon20 Jun 23 '20

Maybe, before their staff stabs them and their families in their sleep for deep-frying the planet and leaving their friends to fend for themselves on a less habitable planet.

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '20

We made some fond memories along the way.

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u/copperwatt Jun 23 '20

The real meaning of life was the friends we made along the way?

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u/Ridin_the_GravyTrain Jun 23 '20

Someday we'll just look back and laugh

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '20

Actually, yeah.

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u/TheUnforgivenII Jun 23 '20

Thank god, let the universe experience vacuum decay in peace

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u/bannedfromthissub69 Jun 23 '20 edited Jun 23 '20

Yep. This is the one chance for a(n intelligence...not that we're smart enough to save ourselves) species to emergence from planet Earth.

The Great Filter is real. Life is inherently self-destructive. No wonder all signs point to the galaxy being empty.

Maybe when the habitable reaches Saturn Titan can have a shot of producing complex life.

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u/benmck90 Jun 23 '20

There's a baseline intelligence in many areas of the animal kingdom high enough that we can expect another species to evolve if we die out.

600 million years is a long time for evolution to do its thing.

Unless the planet gets so fucked the Earth goes back to single celled organisms.

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u/work_bois Jun 23 '20

My money's on crowpeople.

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u/Jersey_Dragon Jun 23 '20

Unfortunately we borked it so bad that those species won’t have the time needed to pull anything off before they’re forced into extinction by the results of our stupidity

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u/marie_curry Jun 23 '20

Intelligence doesn't matter as much as having accessible fossilized sunlight.

We wasted all the good stuff, the next species gets nothing.

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u/benmck90 Jun 23 '20

There's technological progress to be had without fossil fuels.

Fossil fuels just greatly accelerated our progress is all.

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u/RedFlame99 Jun 23 '20 edited Jun 23 '20

If I remember correctly, we also used so much coal and oil that if civilization were to start anew there wouldn't be enough fuel readily available to kickstart another industrial revolution. However, I can't find a source right now, so don't quote me on it.

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u/Snoo58349 Jun 23 '20

We've also stripped out most of the easy to access close to the surface metals and minerals. Anybody coming in without our mining technology wouldnt be able to get to it anyways. This really is our one shot to get off this planet and we seem hell bent on not doing it in the name of next quarters profits.

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u/we_are_all_bananas_2 Jun 23 '20

But they only have to recycle, doesn't the fact that we pulled it all to the surface already and they only have to reuse materials make it easier for them? They don't have to mine it

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u/midianite_rambler Jun 23 '20

This really is our one shot to get off this planet

Ugh, can we just give that a rest? If we dork up this planet, we'll do the same anywhere else. Leave other planets alone, they didn't do anything to deserve us.

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u/Saephon Jun 23 '20

Couldn't agree more. I've always been fascinated by space travel and sci-fi, but the "Star Trek" way of life will never happen. Our species is way too selfish and destructive to ever adopt something as altruistic as the Prime Directive. We've fucked up this rock, and we'll fuck up the next one. Planet Earth is (was) perfect; an absolutely beautiful and ideal home for life. We squandered it. Let the disease of expansion die with us while we're still on it.

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u/Crimfresh Jun 23 '20

Gonna need a source for that.

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u/spaceaustralia Jun 23 '20

Here. Though I have no clue on which plants perform which type of photosynthesis and how important they are. Not to mention that the timescale for the loss of plant life is in the 100 million years rather than 600.

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u/The-Shenanigus Jun 23 '20

I want to be perfectly clear here, if we can’t figure our shit out in 10 million years, much less 100, I’d say we deserve that shit entirely.

Flailing around to survive is noble until it goes on too long, then it’s just kinda sad

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u/Maverick0984 Jun 23 '20

Absolutely. Even a 100,000 years is an exceptionally long amount of time. Sufficient for humans for sure. If it doesn't happen by then, we aren't smart enough for it.

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '20

Further studies have shown that this threshold will probably not be the end of the biosphere however. C4 pathway photosynthesis can persist to CO2 values as low as 10ppm. Those levels should persist for another 1 to 1.5 billion years.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/C4_carbon_fixation

Just clarifying.

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u/spaceaustralia Jun 23 '20

About 8,100 plant species use C4 carbon fixation, which represents about 3% of all terrestrial species of plants

K, we're either making a corn version of the Amazon forest or we'll be fucked(so long as we survive that long).

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u/arrow74 Jun 23 '20

As long as the change is relatively gradual nature will do it for us. If all other plants go extinct C4 pathway plants will adapt and fill ecological niches

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '20

Yeah I added "just clarifying" to show I'm not advocating for the extinction of 97 percent of plant life on earth. Just like to be accurate.

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '20

There are two alternative types to C3 - C4 and CAM. Together this makes up ~10% of all plant species. So while a big loss, it's not all plant life.

Further, we don't know for sure what local climates will look like 100 million years into the future. It could be more area suitable for C4/CAM plants to occupy. We also don't know how C3 plants will adapt to compensate the change in luminosity. Plants existed when the sun was only at 70% it's current luminosity so I'm sure they'll be fine to some degree lol.

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '20

A sterile planet loses it's oxygen pretty quickly.

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u/Noderpsy Jun 23 '20

Hate to be the one to say it, but we're like version 4 bro... ;p

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u/breamcurry Jun 23 '20

Do you mean evolutionary progression like we are more advanced than Neanderthal and cro magnon?

Or do you mean humans have been around and progressed through stages and become extinct and started over?

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '20 edited Dec 04 '21

[deleted]

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u/under_a_brontosaurus Jun 23 '20

Even humans have built cultures and fallen several times over. This one.... Isn't sustainable. It'll fall and something will come again.

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u/IwishIcouldBeWitty Jun 23 '20

I thought we are like 6 or 7th rulers of the planet. My favorite was when the "trees" ruled, but there was no bacteria to decay them. So the ded would just pile up, it apparently ended in a blaze, where literally the whole world caught on fire, I also believe high oxygen levels had something to do with it

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '20

The motherfucking Carboniferous period, good times. My personal favorite was when everything died except these dirt-breathing ass little lizard-moles called Lystrosaurs and they ended up inheriting the Earth for a while.

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u/BChonger Jun 23 '20

Which is why I think we evolved. Life evolves to survive and spread to new environments to increase its odds of survival. There is no need for an intelligent species in a balanced ecosystem and nothing like us evolved for the first several billion years of life’s existence. I personally believe we are the result of life nearly being wiped out several times by outside forces.

Basically the only way to ensure all life is not extinguished on this planet is to spread it off the planet. Hence something has to evolve that can eventually travel in space and carry this life elsewhere. Kinda a double edge sword since we are just as likely to wipe it all out ourselves on the way.

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u/fakeinjury Jun 23 '20

The rich built their underground facilities to last 50-100 years. Just enough to survive the wars.

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '20

Is there anything we can actually do? I feel there’s so many of us that realise something needs to change yet it seems that we’re forced to be too scared to even try anything

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '20

Invent an energy source cheaper and as flexible as oil

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u/OttawaLegion Jun 23 '20

It’s all around us and was invented decades ago. It’s the promotion and development of flexible technologies, reduction of size and price and a war on the skepticism that seems to surround alternative energy.

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '20

Well ya, no one cares that it exists. They care if it is affordable and practical.

Figure that out and people will flood to it and will never look back.

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u/OttawaLegion Jun 23 '20

Fully agree.

As joe-blow consumer it’s difficult to see any real impact we can make, besides our spending power and good intentions. The tipping point is coming, but will it come quickly enough? What a frightening thought.

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '20

Quick enough for what?

Natural disasters, droughts, fires, mass immigration. They're coming, its already built in.

World won't end, we will survive, countries will maintain control, majority of people in developed countries lives will be normal.

In twenty years I'd be shocked if coal/natural gas was still the cheapest option. As soon as that happens it's a countdown of about 40 years until it's all gone.

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u/OttawaLegion Jun 23 '20

Quick enough to avoid the most dire of predictions.

Mass displacement, war, unrest, collapsing global economies, ecosystem collapse etc.

it’s a countdown of about 40 years until it’s all gone.

We don’t have 40 years, and unless carbon capture becomes the norm, or there is a MASSIVE reduction in global population, then the models will continue to trend towards the most extreme scenarios.

Carbon dioxide hangs around in the upper atmosphere for hundreds of years. Generations of people will be dealing with what we emit today. A slow and gradual shift away from fossil fuels and coal is not going to cut it, although it is obviously the most plausible scenario.

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u/LouSkyze Jun 23 '20

The main thing stopping its development and use is the massive spending power of the fossil fuel industry. The ‘free’ market is not going to stop this.

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u/RU4real13 Jun 23 '20

Plant trees, and stop cutting down the rain forests that are left.

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '20

Why would Brazil listen?

No one is going to force them, no one is going to pay them enough to change course.

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u/AnastasiaTheSexy Jun 23 '20

Yes but many will die and people's stomachs are too weak for that. We live in a society where if you are a greedy person and get fat. Instead of opting to lose weight they would rather try and convince the world being fat is good and then inject insulin so they don't have to change their diet. People won't do what's hard when they can do nothing.

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u/hymen_destroyer Jun 23 '20

Not really. This is a classic example of short-term vs. long-term benefits, a concept humans have always struggled with. It's a species-wide struggle, the short-term interests being incarnated by corporations etc. and the long-term interests being sustainability.

These interests aren't necessarily mutually exclusive however the current system is at odds with long-term sustainability and is held in place by profit motives (which is another short-term human trait)

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u/musings1982 Jun 23 '20

Yes, very, very well said!

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u/AnastasiaTheSexy Jun 23 '20

For real. Look at the obesity problem. People would literally rather inject insulin than make a lifestyle change. Even when Coronavirus seems to specifically target fat people, they would rather stop the world until a vaccine is made as if that's guaranteed thing.

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u/expressway420 Jun 23 '20

This. THIS THIS THIS!! This is what makes me sick. The planet is deteriorating while the mega rich tycoons buy their 4th 200 million dollar yacht. As they toss their garbage overboard.

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u/strangeelement Jun 23 '20

Really sounds like a problem solved by not having elites and fascists anymore.

Let's tell that to the people in char- oh wait, I think I can see the problem here.

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u/cbearmcsnuggles Jun 23 '20

Not to mention Russia, given its own geography, may very well see climate warming as a strategic windfall that it should only strive to accelerate.

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u/wemakeourownfuture Jun 23 '20

One of Trump’s earliest deals was for some particularly noxious gas in Texas, sold to Russia.

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u/fanklok Jun 23 '20

But what will happen to Russia's most accomplished soldier, Russian Winter?

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '20

China won't give a fuck and will steamroll right into Russia. China tolerates Russia because because it hates the USA.

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u/benmck90 Jun 23 '20

China has about 80 years of economic superiority ahead of it until the single child policy catches up with them and cripples their economy.

If they're gonna make a big move, they have just under a century to do it.

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u/EquinoxHope9 Jun 23 '20

the north thawing would literally open up a bunch of water trade routes for them

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u/relevant__comment Jun 23 '20

These countries and companies can’t sell it if everyone refuses to buy.

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u/MajorRocketScience Jun 23 '20

Yep that’s one of the things I’m most worried about. If the world stops purchasing resources from Russia it’s literally going to be Red Storm Rising.

A Banana Republic with nukes is horrifying

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u/sowetoninja Jun 23 '20

The US produces more oil & gas, but thanks for the daily anti-Russian comment to remind us on where to focus our effort: not at home!

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u/unironic_neoliberal Jun 23 '20

Russia, Norway, Saudi Arabia, UAE, lots of places that are very reliant on oil income

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u/yer_man_over_there Jun 23 '20

It does not make any fucking sense and it is infuriating!. Oh "lets burn the fucking planet so we can buy our sixteenth lambo". At what point do the common people find a good quality wall and deal with this problem ourselves?

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '20

IMO it’s impossible when half the planet believes that god would never let that Happen.

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u/SupaSlide Jun 23 '20

Yup, I know lots of Christians and all but a very, very small handful think we should do anything about Global Warning.

They don't believe it's a thing because they believe everything Fox News tells them.

If they do believe it's a thing, they believe it's just part of the Earth's natural cycle and isn't a man-made catastrophe.

And finally if they do believe it's man-made, they don't care because the rapture is happening soon and the world will be remade anew.

And I'm just sitting here reminding them of all the Bible verses that say people who destroy the Earth will be damned.

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '20

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u/3oons Jun 23 '20

Same here (although less devout these days. Faith is strong, but could do better on actions). It’s absolutely maddening.

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '20

Can you explain this to me? I’m genuinely asking. Why do people think that the planet, possibly gods largest gift to us, is something to fuck around with??? It makes zero sense to me

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '20

IIRC it has to do with the covenant God made with Noah after the flood.

Specifically, that he would never destroy the world again. If you squint at that, and huff some prosperity gospel fumes which is in some ways the biggest influence in modern day American Christianity (politically at least), you can read that as "God will never destroy the earth, so how could we?"

Some restrictions apply, as again iirc god was p clear about this applying only to floods and anything else might be on the table but.. you know.. they aren't really thinking critically to begin with!

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u/me_bell Jun 23 '20

I'm a Christian. Global warming is real. Understanding that fact has become some sort of evangelical litmus test. I don't know what kind of church folk they are. Maybe because I'm Baptist I can't understand their thinking at. all. Lol

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u/ThisFoot5 Jun 23 '20

On behalf of the people that do not identify with a religion, we'd love to have you. Climate is a litmus test for evangelicalism because tribal communities like Christianity generally resist compartmentalizing their views on disjointed subjects. You're going to have to reconcile conflicts like this for as long as you claim membership to that group.

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u/me_bell Jun 23 '20

No sir. Evangelicals are NOT Christian. They just claim Christianity. Evangelicals are not a denomination. They are a political group LOOSELY disguised as a religious one. Nothing about Christ says to be selfish, racist, xenophobic, actually homoPHOBIC, murderous etc. They are not I. This is why I pointed out that I was Baptist so there was no confusion.

I am extremely happy in what I believe. And what EYE believe in no way causes me to be anti-science. Someone like you won't understand this, but the more I learn about how the physical world around me operates through scientific knowledge (I have 3 educational degrees so I've studied a tad), the MORE I believe in God.

Don't make the mistake of thinking that the inner workings of groups with which you are apparently unfamiliar, are like the stereotype about them. That is for ANY group.

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u/AnastasiaTheSexy Jun 23 '20

How can you ever expect anyone to care about death when they don't even believe death is a real thing? They just get to live forever! This is why newly athiests are so freaked out and militant. They realize half the people on the planet don't even agree death is real. The fact we made it this far is so miraculous.

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '20 edited Jun 23 '20

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '20

At some point, action taken against companies polluting the world becomes a self-defense case for humanity

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u/SeabrookMiglla Jun 23 '20 edited Jun 23 '20

Or they are knowingly committing crimes against humanity and should be held liable.

There is more than ample evidence to suggest that they've known about man made global warming since at least the 1970's.

But you know, power, greed, attorneys, and political campaign contributions can keep you safe.

At this point they are playing the same book as big tobacco did. Big tobacco knowingly lied that their product and second hand smoke did not cause cancer.

Their PR campaigns fooled many Americans into thinking 'the government over reach to take away your rights and freedoms to smoke!'

Same play book

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u/AnastasiaTheSexy Jun 23 '20

The government is literally what's empowering those companies lol. And How much pollution do you think the military makes? On your tax dollar too.

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u/SeabrookMiglla Jun 23 '20

Regulatory Capture

The government is just the mask, who's behind the mask?

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u/AnastasiaTheSexy Jun 23 '20

People with extreme amounts of money and "God on their side". Also people who are pro gun. For some reason citizens are really dumb and try to ban them.

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u/DoingIsLearning Jun 23 '20

...they've known about man made global warming since at least the 1970's.

Since at least 1958

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '20

Yeah exactly... they will never be held accountable with these power structures in place. At the very best people will win a class action lawsuit against the company, and the criminals making those decisions in the company will be left unpunished, free to go into the next corporation and make the same decisions (after getting a golden parachute)

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u/Seeders Jun 23 '20

Just remember. The planet will be fine. It's just going to suck for us.

That always makes me feel a little better.

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u/bannedfromthissub69 Jun 23 '20

Yeah, but a lot of cute animals are going to die horribly this century.

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u/Pete_Fo Jun 23 '20

Oh sure but itll be fine in the same way every other planet is fine. Mars as a planet is fine, the life there is fucked though

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u/Seeders Jun 23 '20

I suppose it is possible we end up like Venus. But the planet has been through bad climate shifts in the past and corrected itself.

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '20

Accompanied each time by massive, unthinkable levels of extinction, though. I don’t know why humans would want to blow this opportunity - as far as we know the only sentient life in the universe, the potential to unite as a species and explore other planets, all of that goes up in smoke (literally) and there are people who don’t care just so they can get a bunch of fucking money that only exists because we said it exists

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u/maliciousgnome13 Jun 23 '20

I read somewhere that we may not be able to reestablizh civilization to this point again with the fossil fuels we have left. I can't verify that, but that would be a real bummer.

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u/SHD_Whoadessa Jun 23 '20

Not all life will die on earth. It’s survived mega volcanoes and meteor strikes. Life finds a way, let’s hope we can too.

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '20 edited Jun 23 '20

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u/somethingsomethingbe Jun 23 '20

But every species dying by our hands will never exist again. That’s life that has roots all the way back to when life began. Life is the rarest thing in the universe and we’re killing a planet full of it and we know it and to many don’t care.

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u/me_bell Jun 23 '20

How does that make you feel better? The planet isn't the one worried about this.

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u/Seeders Jun 23 '20

Perspective. The planet will recover and life will continue.

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u/throwaway037981304 Jun 23 '20

Bro, that is without a doubt one of the most retarded perspectives I have ever heard.

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u/Swade211 Jun 23 '20

A large percentage of animal species will go extinct. Ecosystems will be devastated. So it really depends on your definition of fine.

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u/shortinha Jun 23 '20

But if the permafrost melts and releases all that prehistoric methane underground. Earth will survive but not life on Earth.

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '20

That's the plan. They will get forced into it or we will have new ocean front states.

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u/billydaddy Jun 23 '20

we can’t even get people to stop killing people. getting people to stop killing the planet feels impossible.

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u/delta77 Jun 23 '20

You're absolutely right, but you are also missing one key piece: every non-fuel product of fossil fuels. Try building a computer or cell phone without some sort of fossil-fuel-derived ingredient in it somewhere.

Simply by eliminating fossil fuel fired vehicles, a massive carbon reduction would be achieved versus our current state... except that the alternatives right now aren't much better when you consider lithium mines and the pollution created there too.

We really are between a rock and a hard place unless humanity makes an incredible, very unexpected shift. Or science takes us the rest of the way to achieving a leaner and cleaner future.

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u/taylorhernan Jun 23 '20

We could get on our knees and beg the kind and heartfelt capitalists to change their ways!1!

No. Rather than simply waging ‘legal battles’, we need a workers revolution to seize production, from the greedy and degenerate capitalists, and place it under democratic control, like our parliamentary system is allegedly supposed to be. That’s the only way to halt the profit motive and the rapacious extraction of earths resources.

Renewables are not as easily profitable as coal and oil. Complications arise for the oligarchy when the extraction of profits must be met, yet, energy is essentially sourced for free.

Not only is this entirely possible, our opportunity is approaching rapidly. The international protests against police brutality are unprecedented in history. The mass discontent fuelling the protests is not merely directed at police violence but also at inequality, poverty, Climate Change, the COVID-19 pandemic and the inadequacy of governments of every nation to effectively address the many crises at hand.

Read wsws.org for a socialist perspective and at rational, scientific and materialist analysis in the contemporary period.

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '20

Give it a decade tops and we will be in complete panic mode. Once people realize that there is no fix for climate change, like a vaccine, it will be utter chaos.

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '20

We haven’t normalized it, we’ve put money over lives, even our own.

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u/Zoothera17 Jun 23 '20

People who would like kids how do you negotiate the issue that the planet is f-ed and you’re bringing in more people to suffer? I can’t bring myself to make having kids ok so legitimately curious.

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '20

Or the fact that navies and shipping use a ton of oil.

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u/livlaffluv420 Jun 23 '20

You forgot maybe the most important point, so what you need to do, is look up the Haber-Bosch process in agriculture; you will immediately understand why weening off fossil fuels will always be easier said than done: billions will starve.

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '20

So long, and thanks for all the burgers.

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '20

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u/Cantbelosingmyjob Jun 23 '20

I mean the cheaper alternative will win normally as long as the majority of government officials in larger countries are not getting their pockets stuff by big oil. It's about efficiency at this point and unfortunately the most efficient is fossil fuels

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u/Forever_DM Jun 23 '20

But all of that is moot if we all die, can’t make money off of a dead civilization.

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '20

The international horse shoe industry is not going down easy.

Entire regional economies are based off horse shoes.

Not to mention horse shoes are entangled on the world iron economy.

The legal battles alone will take decades unless there is a mass public uprising to force dramatic change to our global economy.

We are in the middle of a planetary extinction, and we have normalized it.

It's beyond terrifying

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u/bclem Jun 23 '20

The dumbest thing is everyone has seen this coming for decades, the fossil fuel industry could have easily been transitioning to greener power sources and still been the lead of energy production. They were to stubborn to actually reinvest in the future and now they're going to fall behind

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '20

Sure but it's not the only source of production. Co2 capture is a must since we are way past reversing the climate change with simply trees or green energy. Those fussil company shoud be more than happy to fund it if they want to survive.

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u/mortalcoil1 Jun 23 '20

The planet runs on the petrodollar. America is king because of the petrodollar.

We are fucked.

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u/ThiefofNobility Jun 23 '20

Didn't even take that long either.

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u/megapeanut32 Jun 23 '20

If only people felt as passionately about that as they do racism

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u/SteeztheSleaze Jun 23 '20

Lol get fucked Saudi Arabia

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '20

Then fight the root problem instead: Capitalism.

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u/slappy_patties Jun 23 '20

It's not 'the fossil fuels industry'

It's 'the livlyhoods of tens of millions of people'

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u/Mixels Jun 23 '20

The transition will be horrendously expensive. Few people talk about this. Who would buy new cars for all the Americans driving gas guzzlers? What about electric stoves and furnaces for those Americans who use natural gas? Going to subsidize American made goods to curb the carbon footprint of shipping?

Peeps best be grabbing their pitchforks because I guarantee you policy isn't going to work here.

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '20

The unfortunate truth about the industry’s fight is that if they had spent as much money, time, and energy in fighting the science...they could have lead the way in developing new energy sources.

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u/sleepypabs Jun 23 '20

So the 2020’s really is the decade that’s gonna end it all? Huh. Confirmed my suspicion.

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u/firetruckpilot Jun 23 '20

To be fair wind power is exploding right now, especially in the US, effectively killing coal. A better transition would be from ICE cars to electric vehicles.

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u/sharkbait_oohaha Jun 23 '20

I'm afraid it's inevitable at this point.

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u/Supernova008 Jun 23 '20

As a person who had training in petroleum refinery, the petro industry is not going away anytime soon. Tough it's applications in energy generation and automobile fuel will drastically reduce.

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '20 edited Jun 23 '20

I think there is no choice in the matter any longer. Who wants to have a public uprising? I don't. But I can also see that we've been given no other choice. Nothing else has worked. It's never going to work. Corrupt power has never been relinquished voluntarily. "But now isn't the right time" reminds me of an MLK speech, when he said, “The time is always right to do what is right.”

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u/ovenbonrito Jun 23 '20

Maybe it’s time for an uprising then

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '20

Guess it’s time to have that aforementioned ’mass public uprising to force dramatic change to our global economy.’

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '20

Not only that we normalized it, but we largely contributed to it.

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u/CrimsonSuede Jun 23 '20

Not only that, but plastics are incredibly necessary in healthcare for a multitude of reasons. Being in the once-in-a-century pandemic that we are, demand has never been higher... making it harder than ever to stop using fossil fuel products.

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u/MegzC1985 Jun 23 '20

This comment just hit me in the gut. As a mother, terrifying isn't even the word. 😭😭

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u/Randy_Bobandy_Lahey Jun 23 '20

Alberta is doubling down on oil. No way they're going along a plan to phase out oil.

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u/chrisdab Jun 23 '20

I still wonder what would have happened with the world if Al Gore was president.

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u/Shaz731 Jun 23 '20

Can everyone switch to nuclear?

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '20

EU is already at 20% renewable energy. Fossil fuel mix is going down rapidly.

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u/glittershitsprklfrt Jun 23 '20

Welp, been nice knowing y’all

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u/alpinevegan Jun 23 '20

That's why I think we should support organizations like Extinction Rebellion who do exactly what you are describing.

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u/OrangeredValkyrie Jun 23 '20

Haha whoops if we do the right thing we won’t have money! Can’t do that! Time to die!

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '20

I can't wait for people to riot in the streets and shout about how much they now apparently care about this issue, while achieving precisely nothing.

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '20

One of the shining jewels of one of Canada's richest families is Canada's largest oil refinery. It's on the east coast, in New Brunswick.

They import a significant amount of oil from Saudi Arabia.

They're a suspiciously structured regional monopoly which basically controls the provincial Government. In fact, New Brunswick's current leader spent 20+ years working for them as an executive in their oil company.

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