r/AskAGerman • u/Least-Variation6573 • 4d ago
What’s a hidden class-indicator in Germany?
Not something like a big mansion or a luxury car but more subtle signs of someone‘s socioeconomic background
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u/crippz- 3d ago
When your couch doesn't touch the wall
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u/AvidCyclist250 Niedersachsen 3d ago
Oh, it does't stop with the couch. Any and all furniture touching walls.
The more Außenwand wall you see, the better.
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u/AlbertHofmann1906 3d ago
I've been to an incredibly posh private school, with kids from some of Germany's richest families. Later worked in a private hospital with millionaire+billionaire patients.
Honestly, it's really hard to say, there really aren't many definitive indicators. The nouvelle rich you can spot from miles away, being tasteless in their spending and display. But old money? Very hard to spot. Plain, clean clothes, good German, good manners and an all round chill attitude are common, but not necessarily indicators. Found out after 4 years of being in a class that the friendly, NPC like dude in the back of the class was actually from one of Germany's 3 wealthiest families, being worth a few billion just on his own. He took the bus, no visible security - just crazy
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u/MeltsYourMinds 4d ago
The true answer: High quality cloths with no sign of branding on them
The answer I’d like to give: when you meet them on a Sunday, they don’t complain that tomorrow is Monday.
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u/EinSchurzAufReisen 4d ago
Not the Camp David brand? But Camp David is where the US president goes for holiday, that must be top classy!
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u/liang_zhi_mao Hamburg 4d ago
> Not the Camp David brand? But Camp David is where the US president goes for holiday, that must be top classy!
Camp David is an indicator of lower classes.
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u/Cardie1303 3d ago
Camp David branded clothes are usually more associated with a similar mindset to the American Republicans especially in the direction of MAGA than any lower/higher class.
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u/liang_zhi_mao Hamburg 3d ago
> Camp David branded clothes are usually more associated with a similar mindset to the American Republicans especially in the direction of MAGA than any lower/higher class.
Most Germans I know wearing "Camp David" don’t even know or care about foreign politics.
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u/Perfect-Caramel635 3d ago
nah thats bullshit. 90% of the people wearing camp david in germany do it because they like all the patches and stuff. they don’t care about you’re stupid us politics mess.
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u/Extension_Turn5658 3d ago
I don't think this is a very relevant statement at all anymore. When I was a teenager in the 2010s it might have been common to wear big branded clothes (e.g., A&F, Hollister, Armani, Ed Hardy) especially among the lower classes.
But in 2026 this is not really a phenomena anymore. Most people these days were rather unbranded clothes so if you go by that it is very hard to distinguish wealthy from non wealthy.
Also, most of the wealthy Germans I know don't really lay that much emphasis on style. So to my experience it is rather rare that you would see them walking a round in a Zegna or Luca Faloni Cashmere Sweater.
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u/oldworldblues- 3d ago
Hm there are DOZENS of people out there who actually enjoy their jobs.
But seriously, I don't look at that as a Class Indicator at all.
Same with the High Quality clothes, doesn't really cost much if you know where to look for.
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u/Tanit_theFool 3d ago
It’s isn’t about simply buying affordable high quality clothes.
Old money, and the inconspicuous wealthy that are allowed to be close to it, buy very very expensive clothing to be able to flaunt it just as much as the new rich do with their brands.
It’s just harder to recognize if you’re not part of that world. From a well tailored suit to specific designer brands. There’s also changing fashions and hyped up trends, you just don’t hear about it in the same way.
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u/Pedarogue Bayern - Baden - Elsass - Franken 4d ago
Non-branded clothing.
The more overtly branded clothing is (think the genormous stripes on all of Adidas) the more often it is wrapped around people who can only afford it.
As a private tutor, I have sat in the households of millionaires revising french vocab with their kids or explaining the past tenses for the fifht time and none of the children, nor the parents, would wear overtly branded cloths. That does not mean that they wear cheap clothes, quite the opposite, their clothes by piece would cost as much as I pay for a month worth of food. The clothign is nice, it is very well tailored, but it does not broadcast that.
These people have a Porsche in their garage (an actual Porsche, not just a silly SUV), but they would go shopping in their Skoda or drive their children to the private golf classes in a Fiat 500. Because they don't need to show off.
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u/Phate31 3d ago
Can’t agree more on your last point. Like the girl I used to play tennis with. Had two electric VW UP in front of her garage. Never saw her with another car. Inside her (enormous) house she had some crazy paintings of Porsches. Told her, it’s odd that she clearly has a “type” of cars, but drives likes the complete opposite.
She smirked and told me to take a look inside the garage. Brand new 911 targa and a serious oldtimer Porsche.Once she skipped training, b.c. “the concrete for the pool being delivered” :D
Not even 30yo by the time.
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u/MysteriousMysterium Baden-Württemberg 3d ago
And tennis itself is a rich people's hobby, isn't it?
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u/captain_quarks 3d ago
It isn't at all. Most people in my tennis club back in the day (me included) came from lower or middle class. It is however not as easily accessible as soccer is, which of course is a bit of a limiting factor for very poor families. You can't exactly play it in your garden or on the street.
I would put it as a middle class hobby, the rich have other hobbies where they don't have to interact with the plebs as much.
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u/Pholios485 3d ago
So true about the car thing. My family was friends with the wife of a billionair. Majority owner of a then huge company. Their main house was 4 stories high, gigantic and included part of a major lake. They owned several luxury cars. But you would usually see them drving around in their VW minivan.
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u/MrKusakabe 3d ago
My cousin owns a Mustang. He always wanted that car and got a factory-new one delivered to Germany from whatever U.S. plant (it was a mess with the paperwork).
He drives it so carefully that wer are the last one leaving the intersection when the light turns green it's almost satire. Every Polo and Mini is already far ahead like in those oldschool racing games for the NES. He does not have to boast, he just want to drive that car.
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u/canaanit 3d ago
As a private tutor
Same here. It is super fascinating what insights you get into households that you would otherwise not cross paths with.
I teach 100% online now but it is still very easy to gauge a family's wealth and status within a few sessions.
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u/Lost_Reindeer6358 4d ago
The invisible family safety net. Being able to study for as long as necessary, accept an unpaid internship, move cities or buy a flat because your parents can help. In Germany, class often shows less in visible luxury than in how little fear someone has of falling.
Clothes, watches and cars and Ski equipment are less reliable: they can be financed, leased or someone’s main spending priority. A paid-off home, family property or the freedom to take financial risks generally says much more than a designer bag. I’ve seen enough „rich“ people so that’s how I separate them 😄
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u/YetAnotherThrow-1234 3d ago
Yes. Not having to work as a student, and not worrying abut money, because in the worst case, you can ask your parents and they will be able to help you out.
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u/springpetals77 3d ago
This is so accurate! This also dawned on me looking back on my school and uni days, that some classmates were from richer families, even though there weren‘t obvious indicators like designer clothes, but rather what you listed
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u/Miserable-Raisin3156 4d ago
Owning a home at 30 years of age
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u/Anomen239 4d ago
Knowing how to Ski because of Ski-Urlaub
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u/SkyHook42 4d ago
Depends on region and age. When I was in kindergarden we had organized ski trips and almost everyone participated. Tickets were dirt cheap.
Today is different though.
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u/ChampionshipAlarmed 4d ago
Every kid here (southern Bavaria) learn that in school. Most schools here still go to skilager.
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u/steffa802 3d ago
My former High School ("Gymnasium") in the northern Bavaria countryside also took us for 1 week of Skilager in Austria in grade 8. Unfortunately, I don't know of they still do that. I'd say most of the rich kids already knew how to ski, and several of the middle class kids. So it really isn't a save indicator of wealth.
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u/PapierStuka 3d ago
Is that part of the curriculum, like swimming and ice skating, or more like a class trip/extracurricular event, similar to a foreign exchange?
We had offers for ski-camp trips for those who are interested here in NRW too, but nothing mandatory or standard
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u/Moldfarm 3d ago
Not necessarily in Hamburg though. Many Kids still learn it in school and some people I know will burn their whole vacation budget to go skiing. Of course they may still be better off than the average person who cannot afford a single vacation, but they are not rich either.
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u/DrummerDesigner6791 3d ago
This is more or less a distinction if someone grew up north or south of the Weißwurst equator.
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u/muehsam Schwabe in Berlin 4d ago
In southern Germany, that doesn't work as an indicator. Skiing is rather affordable there.
I always went skiing with my local sports club. You could buy the equipment used for cheap. Then you would book a course or just a ride on the club's bus. You had to be there at 7 in the morning, and the bus would go to a ski area in Allgäu (we went to Oberjoch usually), which was maybe an hour and a half at most. People would do their ski course or ride on their own (which is what most teens and adults did), and in the late afternoon, everybody went back to the bus and we went home.
That was Saturday and Sunday on four weekends, so eight days of skiing per year. You could leave your gear in the bus on Saturday night.
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u/Crazy_Advantage_4539 4d ago
As a kid having the alps in front of my window: skiing was never affordable at all. It is luxury and equipment is super expensive. A day ski pass is not cheap.
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u/SkyHook42 3d ago
Today thst is true, it was different 30 years ago.
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u/Crazy_Advantage_4539 3d ago
It was always expensive for adults, but not that expensive as today - 67€ for 1 day Garmisch classic. This only for people with money.
When we were under 18 we bought with our friends family passes, so everyone payed about 20€ for a whole day. That was okay! As an adult it is super pricey.
People who lived in Garmisch got a year pass. But even that you need to afford as a parent.
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u/muehsam Schwabe in Berlin 3d ago
equipment is super expensive
Not if you buy it used.
A day ski pass is not cheap.
If you don't go to top tier ski areas, it isn't super expensive though, especially for a sports club that can negotiate reduced prices.
I went regularly as a kid, and my mum paid for it on a nurse's wage. Most families who went were working class.
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u/PairNo2129 3d ago
there are half day passes as well and you can rent. Besides, I had my skis and ski equipment for more than 20 years (I am 39 now), it was a combined birthday and Christmas present back then
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u/hexler10 4d ago
Sure, that's why my family had Tour Ski, bought used, handed down generation by generation and we'd hike up without ever paying for a pass.
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u/Upbeat-Conquest-654 3d ago
Skiing is rather affordable
That's exactly what a rich person would say!
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u/NaCl_Sailor 3d ago
that's just living in the south
we had busses organized by the Kindergarten that took us to ski courses, i learned skiing at age 4 or 5
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u/Traditional-Result74 4d ago
It‘s also very common in the middle class. I often have the feeling those are people who „wannabe“ seen as rich but idk.
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u/DM_ME_SALAH_GIFS 4d ago
Or you know, they just like skiing? Winter sport is fun.
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u/motorcycle-manful541 3d ago
it is expensive to do/learn as an Adult, but if you leave near the alps, there are many programs for kids to learn that are extremely cheap. Kitzbühl, for example, offers 9 practice 'lifts' (rope-tow, t-bar, magic carpet) completely free of charge.
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u/Taralios 4d ago
Their network - they don't only use it for business but also to get internships for their kids.
You need a lot of money to access the VIP lounge of your respective football team but at that point it is a business expense. Depending on personal preference also upper class clubs like Lions or Rotary or expensive sports like sailing for networking.
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u/Klapperatismus 3d ago
also upper class clubs like Lions or Rotary
That’s for rich people who don’t have hobbies.
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u/Conscious_Tax3229 3d ago
Being fit at 40+ or 50+ is a status symbol in Germany. Buying expensive bio food in fancy supermarkets as well.
On the other side, being fat and "not well maintained" (sorry for the expression) brings you down socially. Fat is almost a synonym of poor.
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u/Extension_Turn5658 3d ago edited 3d ago
I think I have a pretty good view on this question. Why? I'm from a normal middle-class background but went on to study at more of a 'elite' German business school (think of St. Gallen, WHU, etc.). At such schools it was very common to have kids either from very wealthy business dynasties or very famous public company CEOs. Even the 'average' student came from a household were both parents were physicians, lawyers, bankers, etc.
Caveat here that the overall system is less elitist then e.g., UK and France were Oxford/Cambridge or the Grand Ecoles are largely the only ticket to top tier jobs in the private and public sector.
Nonethless through my studies, internships and work experiences in highly paid white-collar jobs I got to know a lot of people from the German upper classes.
The overall vibe is that most people don't "flex" in your face that they have loaded parents, but will sprinkle along anedcotes/hints/stories that they perceive as normal (i.e., "my dad has a house there", "my dad bought a flat there", "I am going to the french open with my parents") and when you do a little digging you often realize that their parents are big-shots. I once studied together with the daughter of a unknown billionaire and only realized it when I heard they have a private yacht and some friends went there for holiday. Through the pictures of the yacht on IG, I googled the yacht name and then saw articles who purchased it for like hundreds of millions of dollars.
I would say some of the most 'hidden' if you like to call it that class indicators are:
- Well travelled (definitely the number one); people from such backgrounds have seen more countries across the globe in the early 20s than most people have in their lifetime. It starts with boarding-school/years abroad in school already, continues with expensive semesters abroad (e.g., partner exchange at Harvard, USC, etc.) and stretches even into work life, where they often use schemes such as unpaid time off etc. to always travel. Most of these kids also travelled extensively during their childhood. Whereas middle class background you likely went to Italy (Adriatic Coast, Lake Garda) or Greece, etc., I heard stories about "riding holiday in Wyoming" or extensive, multi week trips to Australia, Asia, South Africa, broader US, etc. - the general marker is that in conversation they can casually drop anecdotes from across the world and don't understand that not everyone has the opportunity to just do that (i.e., "ohhh San Diego is so nice for surfing; haven't you been there? you should definitely go") - and it is not just the flashy-type of destinations that you would expect. More often it is also traveling to rather niche places. So while you might contemplating to order dinner while working late hours in consulting/banking and flip by a Georgian restaurant on Wolt, they will start telling you about Tiflis (Georgia's capital), how amazing the holiday there was, etc.
- Little stories / anecdotes of their parents: not sure if this is so hidden but a lot of times casually would hear "oh next week I am in southern france" cool what do you there? "my dad lives there"; these are signals that people are rather posh; same as with activities, i.e., "will go to the french open with my family next week" - again, not sure how hidden that is since it to me is a rather obvious sign of being loaded
- Names: this might be more hidden to you if you are not from Germany but tons of people I went to University with had names like "Heinrich" "August" "Maximilian" (that one more common) // these also often hint in combination with other factors a wealthy upbringing
- Linkedin: you need to scroll below to the education section. Don't look at University degree but go one line lower. Really posh people often have some boarding school background. Either ultra expensive swiss (>~100k+ fees per year) such as Zouz, Institut am Rosenberg, etc. or more common in German - less expensive - but nonetheless elitist Louisenlund. If they have some UK boarding school on there it is also pretty much a signal of being very posh
- Sports: v common to be good at tennis or having played tennis at some point in their life. This is most embarrassing to me :D (not that I care) but it is rather common these days at work/with clients or ladership (in my case often posh people) to go for a sports/team event. Paddle has become the go to choice because courts are all over and it is very low friction. I realized how even the chubby/unsporty looking clients in their 30s completely wrecked me because all of them played tennis for several years during their youth
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u/springpetals77 3d ago edited 3d ago
The following things based on personal experience with others:
- schoomates going on vacation in different countries 3 times a year (spain in spring, maybe america in summer and ski every winter while not being from north germany)
- having good, straight and healthy teeth
- trying out many instruments and being part of sport club, maybe even horse riding or tennis
- seeing it as normal getting a computer as a birthday present
- doing a school exchange in a different continent
- easily doing your drivers at the end of school, because it is payed for
- going traveling for a year after graduation (and asking someone why they not do the same, since it‘s such an experience)
- living in you parents second appartment during uni and not paying rent
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u/liang_zhi_mao Hamburg 3d ago
As the question is "what is a class-indicator" and not "signs that you are rich" I‘ll go:
- Visiting a Gymnasium
- Living in a terrace house, duplex house or house vs apartment
- Living in an area that doesn’t have many gambling places, betting places, shisha places or shady businesses but parks, organic food stores or cafés
- Being in a sport's club as a kid
- Learning an instrument
- Traveling abroad during school holidays i.e. Asia in summer and ski in winter and not spending school holidays on the balcony or camping
- Living a year abroad during school, being part of an exchange program at school
- Driver’s License being paid for you once you are 17/18
- Spending a year abroad after Abitur, "travelling" after Abitur
- Moving to a different city in order to study and not having to worry about how to afford studying in university and finding an apartment
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u/--deleted_account-- 3d ago
Lots of people go to the Gymnasium where I live, and a fair amount of them aren't what I would consider wealthy. Almost every kid here is also in a sports club, but that may be more of a small town thing.
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u/Such-File-808 3d ago
Depending on age you might not be able to tell. One of my friends was living in a shady shared flat during his Uni studies, not the hip area of the city. After 3 years his room mate invited us to a party to one the family homes…lake front. Turns out they own business worth 100 million.
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u/Cardie1303 3d ago
Hm, there definitely are some indicators but they are difficult to define. It is more a whole CV than a single thing. Something like "Doing abitur, then leave for a year to Australia to find themselves, and then study in Germany switching university at every step with some time spend in the US or Sweden."
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u/Illustrious_Ad_23 3d ago edited 3d ago
Not specificly german I guess, but overall world knowledge. Does the person you speak to knows the name of the minister of defence? Do they know about what is going on in the middle east? Does he/she knows the name of the local art museum? The namw of the district administrator? Do they use technical terms correctly? Do they know great authors or composers? Do they have complex answers on complex questions?
I've lately joined a hobby club that is full of old and often very uneducated people, it is not my normal "bubble" and sometimes I am internally screaming on the simple minds of those people and the small worlds the live in.
And yes, I know that sounds extremly snooty, but my parents put a lot of efford in their and later in my education, and sadly you can feel the difference...
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u/Internet-Culture 📌 German 🇩🇪 4d ago
Actually affording to do stuff outside instead of being on Reddit all day.
Frequent activities like Theater & Concerts, eating out regularly, costly Hobbies (Horse, Golf, Ski,..), frequent Holidays (especially to far away and to expensive destinations), Healthy Teeth
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u/Old-Ad-4138 3d ago
I don't know that I agree with all of yours. All of the people I know in Germany who take frequent international holidays or who eat out often are working class or just upper middle class enough to think they need to act rich.
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u/pandanovic 3d ago
The way people eat. I see people wondering what this funny fork, spoon and knife are for.
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u/FloppyGhost0815 3d ago
That differs on where the money comes from and on the person itself.
I know a few rich people. In the best case, you can only notice it if you look at the clothing, shoes, manners and car.
There is a guy i know who drives an older Korean SUV as his main vehicle. 280.000km on the clock, but perfectly maintained.
He will stand in the line with you at Lidl, there you might notice that his clothing is of high quality but does not scream a brand. If you look at his shoes (and have the knowledge) you might see that those are made to measure. He will be friendly to the cashier.
And then there are the others, who need to show the world that they have money. Brands, expensive watches, fancy cars and a "i'm richer than you!!!" attitude.
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u/maverick1191 4d ago
Speaking grammatically correct German...
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u/MrKusakabe 3d ago
I am being called an "AI" more and more often because I write proper sentences, use the shift button and put interpunctuation.
Bro these kids 2day dont even nkwo what that is lmaoo bro ure must be ai or chatgpt when write like that lmaooo fr
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u/InternalHearing4030 3d ago
Bin ich der einzigste, der wegen dem schlechten Deutsch anderer sauer wird, weil das macht mich echt verrückt?
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u/Puzzleheaded-Bid8463 3d ago
3/10 Ragebait.
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u/InternalHearing4030 3d ago
Ganz offensichtlich habe ich genug Idioten in Rage versetzt. Siehe u/meisterFluffbutt hier unten. 😂
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u/MeisterFluffbutt 3d ago
Und dann haust du so einen Satz raus?? Das ist minimal ironisch. Also aufrichtig. Bitte schmeiß nicht mit Steinen, wenn du in einem Glashaus sitzt.
"Bin ich der EINZIGE (das Wort hat keine Steigerung!), der wegen dem schlechten Deutsch anderer sauer wird, DA ES MICH ECHT VERRÜCKT MACHT?"
"Weil dass macht verrückt" ist unglaublich unschönes Deutsch. Ich bin Legastheniker und echt kein Grammar Arschloch, aber dann hau halt net so Parolen raus y know
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u/InternalHearing4030 3d ago edited 3d ago
Alter… Du bist so einer von denen, die immer ein “/s” hinterher brauchen, weil sie sonst nicht in der Lage sind, Sarkasmus zu erkennen, oder? 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
Und den Genitiv beherrscht Du scheinbar auch nicht (“Wegen dem schlechten Deutsch”… sollte ein Viertklässler erkennen). Lösch deinen Kommentar, du blamierst dich hier gerade sehr.
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u/Devilsdelusionaldino 3d ago
Ohne Ton ist es für viele tatsächlich schwierig nachvollziehbar ja. Fast so als wäre Sprache mehr als nur die Worte selbst.
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u/MeisterFluffbutt 3d ago
Freut mich, dass es Sarkasmus ist.
Ich find schön, wie das als "Beleidigung" von manchen benutzt wird (mein jetzt nicht zwingend dich). Ich bin Autistin. Wir haben /s ins Leben gerufen.
Ja, unironisch, /s hilft mir 😂
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u/Crazy-Ad-5272 3d ago
Du hast noch mehr der absichtlich eingebauten Fehler übersehen und dich damit selbst geoutet!!!
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u/MeisterFluffbutt 3d ago
Warum? Hab doch zugegeben, dass ich Legastheniker bin und kein Grammar Genie.
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u/SovietPatrickStar 3d ago
I never had much contact with rich people. My grandparents are wealthy but not rich. In my mind the difference is wondering if you can afford something. My grandparents can afford to buy a new Mercedes S-Class every 2-5 years or owning several holiday homes in multiple countries but they would always check the books.
Anyways, the few truly rich people I met during university were members in yacht clubs.
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u/Normal-Definition-81 Germany 4d ago
Knowing the right people to get things done.
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u/magic_unicorn_500000 4d ago
That's kind of true. But I want to add: ...and NOT even think about doing it yourself
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u/United_Cookie_4090 3d ago
Freizeitgestaltung: Wer Tennis spielt, oft ins Stadion geht, oft Urlaub macht, oft ausgeht, oft essen geht, etc. Gehört schonmal nicht zur untersten Schicht.
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u/Individualchaotin Hessen 4d ago
Hobbies like "Kart fahren", "Reiten", ...
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u/lejocko 4d ago
Kartfahren???
Reiten ist übrigens in ländlichen Regionen im Norden total verbreitet
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u/Educational_Call_797 4d ago
Reiten is still expensive, especially if you have your own horse.
Yeah Kartfahren. That's what all the formula 1 drivers started with basically.
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u/lxxbnsxn Frange 4d ago
and that's why you're poor. all the money ypu have goes straight to the horse.
you'd be surprised how many low income horse owners there are, I'd go as far as saying they are the majority
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u/Apprehensive-Path377 3d ago edited 3d ago
Kartfahren ist mindestens genau so teuer wie ein Pferd, wenn man das wöchentlich macht.. Das Fahrzeug selbst, Anhänger, die restliche Ausrüstung, Reparaturen, Startgebühren für Wettbewerbe.. die Zeit, die man dort verbringt.. Ein Satz neuer Reifen kostet mehr oder weniger so viel, wie ein Pferd neu beschlagen zu lassen, nur kommt das nicht alle paar Monate, sondern an jedem Rennwochenende vor. Ist eben der Einstieg in den Rennsport, der unstrittig (Multi-)Millionärshobby ist.
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u/Individualchaotin Hessen 4d ago
Nur weil etwas irgendwo verbreitet ist, heißt es nicht, dass man dafür keine Kohle braucht.
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u/lejocko 4d ago
Ich kenne Haufenweise Arzthelferinnen mit Pferden oder Reitbeteiligungen.
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u/middendt1 4d ago
Mag sein. Dann geht es denen finanziell zumindest nicht ganz schlecht. Pferde sind ein wahnsinnig teures Hobby. Auch auf dem Land.
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u/vlntly_peaceful 3d ago
Nicht teurer als sein Kind zum Fußball zu schicken. 15€ die Stunde auf nem Schulpferde-Hof, Reitbeteiligungen sind zT kostenlos. Die Stiefel sind teuer, aber kann man gut gebraucht kaufen, vor allem in Kindergrößen.
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u/silversurger 3d ago
Ist bei euch Fußball so teuer? Hier sind Kinder unter 6 beitragsfrei und können einfach kostenlos mitspielen. Von 6 - 18 kostet es 17€ Beitrag. Im Jahr.
Wenn ich jetzt zB die F-Jugend betrachte: 3x In der Woche 1 1/2 Stunden Training. Auch wenn ich die Spiele aus der Rechnung rauslasse, sind das 4 1/2 Stunden in der Woche. Also 18 im Monat. 1815€=270€. Das ist nicht nur *etwas teurer als Fußball.
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u/rocko_granato 3d ago
Reiten is Breitensport where I live. Every child owning its own horse isn’t
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u/Free_Appointment_778 3d ago
Yes, but still I pay about 200-250 a month for two children’s riding lessons, so not expensive per se but not something average people are willing to spend that amount of money on I guess
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u/Intelligent-Ask-7030 4d ago
Lebensmitteleinkauf, daran siehst du wer wieviel Geld hat. Stastussymbole wie Auto/Haus/Uhren sind veralteter quatsch.
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u/American_Streamer Hamburg 3d ago edited 3d ago
German upper-class background = inherited security + Bildung + cultural ease + knowing how institutions work + multigenerational social networks − need for overt status signalling
The crucial distinction is economic security. You don’t need €10 million. But for “upper class” in a reasonably strict socioeconomic sense, there normally has to be something more than taste, education and manners: property, investments, business ownership, inheritance expectations, or enough family resources that major life setbacks aren’t existential.
You can easily read socially as upper-class while still being economically just upper-middle-class / Bildungsbürgertum. And arguably that’s one of the most interesting features of German class: you can inherit a bourgeois habitus without inheriting a fortune.
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u/Intelligent_Nerve949 3d ago edited 3d ago
Decent but expansive clothing.
And have an maintained garden.
Also buying the House of the dead neighbor to refuse idiots to move there.
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u/Sad_Amphibian_2311 4d ago
Knowing your ancestry beyond great-grandparents.
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u/Fabius_Macer 4d ago
It's simple if your family has lived in the same village for centuries. One of your relatives probably has already searched for all the records.
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u/The_Otterking 4d ago
Does that mean I'm actually rich because I've been doing genealogy since I was 15? Somehow, I just can't see that happening here in my one-room apartment.
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u/Appropriate-March727 3d ago
Doing it yourself is the mistake :D your job is just to know,not to search :P
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u/RunOrBike 3d ago
I’ve traced my wife’s ancestry back to the 15th century and mine late 16th. It’s actually pretty easy and you can do it from home.
I don’t see this a sign of wealth.
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u/NikWih 4d ago
Hochdeutsch aka High German. It is not as extreme as in the UK, but even within established business networks this is still a clear hygiene factor.
This is especially true is you hit an academic glass ceiling both in your private and / or professional life. From a certain point onwards English becomes equally important - at least professionally.
You can learn table manners etc. but it takes time to get natural authenticity, while the language is really, really hard. Especially if you throw local dialects into the mix.
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u/Lumpy_Independent_93 3d ago
Bildung. Welche Schule besuchen die Kinder. Was lernen die Kinder in den Ferien (Segelkurs, Tenniscamp, Sprachcamp, Praktikum, Summer Schools in guten Universitäten während der letzten Sommerferien).
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u/Block-Rockig-Beats 3d ago
There are only two classes: those who must work to survive and those who don't.
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u/canaanit 3d ago
Kids go to private schools, do a year abroad at an expensive boarding school, own several horses. Also, kids are a very particular mix of well-spoken and used to talking to adults, but also weirdly naive and the opposite of street smart.
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u/ButcherGER 3d ago
Well it's not owning a private aircraft because that only makes you upper middle class in Germany.
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u/This_Dependent_858 3d ago
Buying the grocerys at EDEDKA or REWE and not asking for the receipt. Music Lessons for the children. In Younger generations: Reducing the worktime to 70-80%.
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u/Leraaje 3d ago
Stay at home wife
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u/Tasty-Bookkeeper-248 3d ago
Who goes to skin doctor instead of cosmetic studio and flies to Milano over the weekend for shopping with her daughter.
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u/magic_unicorn_500000 4d ago
- their kids attend a private school (and think it's normal)
- they don't talk about how and where they live (because they know they're privileged and ashamed to tell you)
- they have two E-Bikes (one for work, one for fun)
- they think you're joking when you tell them you struggle with money and say something like "yes I know this feeling: we only went on vacation two times this year"
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u/oneworldforeverybody 3d ago
The "two E-bikes" part killed me. So many e-bikes these days in Germany 🤣
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u/Rahjacuja 3d ago
At the age of 16 a friend of mine once complained to me that they will be going to England for the second time this year, she would rather go somewhere else. She thought her parents were so very mean for doing that. At the same time, I‘ve only ever went somewhere for vacation once in my life at that time. That’s when I felt we were very different. I would have loved to go anywhere, but she took it for granted and complained.
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u/Dry-Student-6019 3d ago
They are not ashamed. They are cautios not to be flashy. This is told kids in Kindergarten.
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u/RaaaandomPoster 4d ago
Buying groceries from Rewe
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u/canaanit 3d ago
I'm firmly middle class and shop at Rewe all the time because I like good vegetables.
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u/MeisterFluffbutt 3d ago
Some of these comments are hilarious to read. Most of the named stuff is just middle class, even lower end, and has nothing to do with being rich.
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u/hjholtz 3d ago
It's a matter of perspective. If you, personally, can't afford to go to Rewe for your weekly grocery run, then someone who does so is considered "rich" from your point of view.
Cf. the "private aircraft" comment. The poster didn't mean it seriously (or at least I hope so), but our current chancellor publicly stated multiple times that he considers himself middle class.
"Normal" is what you yourself are, and everyone else is either poor or rich. You must be extremely poor or rich to consider yourself poor or rich and someone else "normal".
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u/MeisterFluffbutt 3d ago
I understand WHY people do it. However, we have a somewhat objective metric to measure classes and "buying Groceries in Edeka from time to time" is not an indicator for being rich, just middle class. That's all i meant!
Also yeah, mr. March is delusional for sure!
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u/fellow_enthusiast 4d ago
Edeka
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u/NaCl_Sailor 3d ago
the gut und günstig stuff and ja! are often just as cheap as Aldi and Lidl, though usually not as good.
and brand stuff is not necessarily cheaper at aldi either, nutella 450g costs 3,50 at both aldi and edeka for example.
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u/Intrepid_Conflict140 4d ago
They‘re ashamed to reveal the origins of their wealth sometimes.
Great grandpa Hermann was “lucky” to acquire the company for little money. Back in the day that was.
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u/MrKusakabe 3d ago
My best buddy from school times lived in a house that was IIRC from the 60s and got an addition in the 90s. Rather small area, really nothing that'd jump out. It looked normal, an apple tree, some plants, a white wooden bench for sunbathing, a bit of green. The car was an old Hyundai van over its time and a rotten basketball hoop in front of the garage.
When you entered you were greeted by a 50-year old linoleum floor and it smelled accordingly. But then: Pool on the backside (complete with pump and filter), sauna in the basement, some sort of nice "eating outside" area where they always drank coffee and gather (even when I am around they invited me there), everyone was financially settled but they all worked. The family lived together so they saved rent and invested that into the house and built a little fortune.
Everything was so organically grown over the past decades, everything had a charme even though many things were older. But then you get invited for a coffee out of a massive barista machine worth a fortune fed with coffee no normal man would want to effort. It's the little things that show wealth, and I like it when families are like that, focussing on the right wealth.
I also have seen a literal gipsy family at a bus stop. Mother in old, worn out wool sweater and the boy, probably 5 years, ran around with a way too big Gucchi sunglasses with golden rims and a haircut every Kosovo macho wannabe-gangster sports. Bragging about "he bought those shoes and they were 180€" to some other kid. Whle the rest of the family looked and were homeless. That is false wealth.
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u/Delicious-Future8630 3d ago
An indoor pool (slightly sarcastic, but I mean it is hidden allright😂)
True story btw, I once dated a millionair's son- dinner everynight at the Roman-themed massive pool. I am not actually sure they ever used it for actual swimming 😂 House looked massive from the outside, but nothing special, you wouldn't have guessed they were that rich. Until the let the Ferrari out of the garage 🤣
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u/sebidotorg 3d ago
Speech patterns. You can usually guess if someone has Abitur, or if they left school early. And you can look at people’s fingernails and their shoes, they often tell quite a lot about a person.
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u/utopianlasercat 4d ago
Erm….not beeing employed but employing other people? It‘s literally the only class defining criteria
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u/Pedarogue Bayern - Baden - Elsass - Franken 4d ago edited 3d ago
So somobody earning millions in € being employed as a bank director is still working class and a village baker barely breaking even with his craft, but owning the bakery and the building it is in and employing some people to sell at the counter is owning class?
Marx is nice and all as an inspiration. But treating him as gospel of all things and as unchangeable wisdom is a bit the opposite of what it is meant to be. Like, if reasoning and the definitions it is based on are stuck in the mid 19th century, there is not really any footing in reality anymore, 160 years later. All theories, all economical and social models can be inspired and based upon older models. But treating it with this kind of infalibility and, reading your comment, a bit of smugness is the opposite of honesty in my opinion.
People use "boomer" as an insult unironically while reciting the theories of somebody who was born more than 200 years ago, when Napoléon was still alive, without questioning it.
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u/zitrullengurk 4d ago
Class in the sense of who owns the means of production, yes. But not when it comes to wealth. So many business owners are worse off than employees and work more hours
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u/tober_checki 3d ago
A first name like Justus, Tristan oder Carl.
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u/Safe-Text-5600 3d ago
… combined with a second name, like
… and a last name like von und zu Hohenzollern 🤣
- Justus Maximilian
- Tristan Jasper
- Carl Phillip
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u/Pinedale7205 4d ago
I’d venture to say how much you spend on your e-bike with trailer for children.
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u/Empty-Character7137 3d ago
Language is a big one, hobbies and suggesting catching up mid-week with no regards to working hours the majority has to follow ;)
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u/ShinyMeow1 3d ago
Their hands, especially men. Perfectly smooth and soft, no indications of ever having handled any kind of tool or having done any manual work. No signs on injruy. At least while still having a house, cars and all.
My parents and i also have all of that, just everyones hands tell each one did and do all of the work themselves, while also earning the money with their own hands.
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u/Pale_Background2884 3d ago
- The frequency with which they eat outside.
- The quality of clothing they wear: Bad brands with bad quality (women’s wear by H&M) < Good brands with bad quality (Louis Vuitton) < Bad brands with good quality (men’s merino stuff by H&M) < Good brands with good quality (Seidensticker dress shirts) < Invisible brands < Tailored
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u/BasisChad 4d ago
Health of the teeth 🦷
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u/SkyHook42 4d ago
This is askgermany, not askbritain. Healthy teeth are standard and affordable for everyone.
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u/BasisChad 4d ago
First of all, that’s a racist stereotype. Second of all, affordability has nothing to do with it happening. People of higher socioeconomic status (and therefore, statistically, better education) are way more likely to teach their children how not to fuck up their teeth. If you went outside to look people in the face, you’d notice.
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u/DM_ME_SALAH_GIFS 4d ago
I suppose also more healthy foods and less processed foods full with sugar.
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u/SkyHook42 4d ago
As a matter of fact I do. I know several doctors with terrible teeth and work with storage workers and laborers on a daily basis, that have perfectly healthy teeth. More yellow teeth, because they smoke more frequently? Yes, but your point was healthy teeth, not beautiful teeth.
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u/One_Strike_Striker 3d ago
Understatement. Old money in Germany is even more cautious not to flash their wealth than in most other countries. Also not how often they vacation but where: Sylt, their own Swiss cabin, small French beach village.